<www.religiousforums.com> thread : “I’m ignorant, hence I’m and atheist”. Welcome to comment here. or
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Belief in the One-True-God is the default position; when one is off this position or derailed from the right path due to different factors one could become believer in many gods or just an atheist, not believing any gods.
Example:
Jesus was a Jew and believed in the one true G-d; he expressed this in a very clear and straightforward terms.
Yet Paul invented Trinity and made Christians believe in it; and later there were some Christian denominations that worshiped Mary also making into four deities.
Later when people in the West realized the wrong concepts of Christianity they altogether denied G-d and started becoming atheists; a counter-reaction of the wrong creeds of Christianity.
Regards
Sam Harris blog
“Lifting the Veil of ‘Islamophobia’:A Conversation with Ayaan Hirsi Ali”
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/lifting-the-veil-of-islamophobia
I would have commented on Sam Harris’ blog but found no comments column on his blog, hence I am commenting here.
Paarsurrey says:
“She embraced Islam while she was growing up, but eventually began to question aspects of the faith”-
Anybody who is in a religion must be in for its core teachings; the other things are to be read and interpreted within the core teachings.
The interview fails to show as to why Ayaan Hirsi Ali embraced Islam in the first place. If she had embraced for the truth of Islam as described in its articles of faith or in the pillars of faith- the core teachings of Islam; then she would have remained in it whatever the suffering due to socio-cultural and political conditions prevailing part of the world she lived.
The socio cultural and political conditions could be reformed; and that is what she was supposed to be doing.
Instead, she opted to leap in the dark and went Atheist for no good reason.
What positive truth did she find in Atheism?
She fails to describe it in the interview.
She or any other Atheist could answer this question. Please
Atheist website “God Does Not Exist : Reason 1. All Knowledgeable”: Refuted
http://www.god-does-not-exist.org/reasons/reason-1-all-knowledgeable
Atheist :
“For a moment let’s believe what religiously-inclined people preach to us and accept that God exists and that It is all knowing. To be all knowing is to know everything that has ever been, to know everything that is current, and to know everything that will ever be. That covers a time-span from the dawn of creation till the end of the universe, assuming that creation had both a start and has an end.” Unquote
Paarsurrey:
I believe in the One-True-God very naturally like I believe in the existence of myself or the existence of my parents and nobody has so far provided me any reason to convince that the “One-True-God does not exist” to change my natural and reasonable belief. Yes, He is All-Knowing and nobody knows better than Him. He is the Creator of this Universe; and as a manufacture of a product or say a car knows everything about the car manufactured by him; so does the Creator know everything about this Universe; naturally, reasonably and appropriately
OOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Quran is a living Exhortation; it has provided the answer to the question in the following verses:
One-True-God is All-Knowing:
[6:74] And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in accordance with the requirements of wisdom; and the day He says, ‘Be!’, it will be. His word is the truth, and His will be the kingdom on the day when the trumpet will be blown. He is the Knower of the unseen and the seen. And He is the Wise, the All-Aware.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=6&verse=73
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Atheist:
“If we now view the universe as an experiment (akin with a laboratory experiment) then we must ask the question as to why God ran the experiment in the first place? Remember that God knows everything so that any experiment It creates It also knows the outcome of. Thus, if God knows the outcome of “The Universe” experiment then why run the experiment in the first place?” Unquote
Paarsurrey:
It is a wrong premise or notion that the Creator One-True-God; created this Universe as an experiment. He needs no experiments to be made as He could create anything He wants, the way He wants and the time He wants.
Now it is obvious that the One-True-God had created innumerable Universes; so that has proved the question as false already by science.
The Universe is purpose built by the One-True-God; neither a chance-built nor built for experiment/play/fun.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Quran is a living Exhortation; it has provided the answer to the question in the following verses:
[21:17] And We created not the heaven and the earth and all that is between the two in play.
[21:18] If We had wished to find a pastime, We would surely have found it in what is with Us if at all We were to do such a thing.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=21&verse=17
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Atheist:
“Scientists devise and execute experiments because they do not know the outcome. What is the point of running an experiment in which you already know the outcome? I know that 2×3 equals 6. I can fire up my calculator and type in 2×3 and press the = button, which verifies that the answer to the multiplication is indeed 6. So what was the point of performing the calculation using the calculator? Most people rightly reach for their calculator when they wish to perform a calculation that they do not know the answer to, such as the arcsin(67).
Thus, if God1 is all knowing and the universe does indeed exist then it does not add up. The only rational conclusion is that if both God and the universe exist then God does not know the outcome, and hence is not all knowing. Could it not validly be argued (as Christians do!) that God has infinitely greater knowledge than we mere humans have – and so possibly God has chosen for whatever reason not to give us It’s reasons for running the experiment, or us mere humans are incapable of understanding It’s reasons?” Unquote
Paarsurrey:
I have already answered that the Universe is purpose built. Out of His mercy the One-True-God has created this purpose built Universe.
I have provided the argument above.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Quran is a living Exhortation; it has provided the answer to the question in the following verses:
[55:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[55:2] It is God, the Gracious
[55:3] Who has taught the Qur’an.
[55:4] He has created man.
[55:5] He has taught him plain speech.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=55
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Atheist:
“As with much religious reasoning, there are more holes in it than a sieve. You will often hear the religious-lot say “God gave humans freewill”. To have freewill is the ability to do what you like, which leads to an unforeseen future. If you are completely free then you can choose to kill another person or not to kill another person. Thus, if you are completely free to do what you like and not simply living out a pre-written script then BigG does not know the future and therefore is not all knowing.
Let’s conclude with some humbling sayings from mere humans: “Who knows most, doubts most” by Robert Browning and “The more I learn, the less I know” by Socrates.
1The Bible tells us that the Christian God is all knowing in Proverbs 15(3), Psalms 138 (7-10) and Job 34(21 and 22).” Unquote
Paarsurrey :
The above is just a concluding paragraph; the reason-part I have already covered.
Freewill is always with some responsibility. Nowhere in the world freedom is allowed without a responsible behavior.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I have sent this post to the Atheist website on May 6, 2014 and it has been acknowledged by them as below:
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I wrote following post on uncleE’s blog; the viewers could comment here even if they differ with me.
“Is there a God?”
“How can we know if God exists? Do philosophical arguments help?”
How can we know if God exists? Do philosophical arguments help?
How can we know if God exists? Do philosophical arguments help?
paarsurrey
MAR 14, 2014 @ 19:58:50
@uncleE
“Without reasons, we should be agnostic, with no strong belief either way. ”
I think I don’t agree with you.
I believe in One-True-God very naturally; like I believe in the existence of my parents or like I believe in the existence of my own self. I don’t need any other reason to believe in Him.
This is the start of belief in the One-True-God; there are/could be more or higher stages to this belief; but if one is Agnostic or Atheist; then he has to provide me the reasons and arguments that “the One-True-God does not exist”. I will see the flaws in their reasons and arguments.
My comments on triangulations blog:
paarsurrey
02/13/2014 at 2:56 pm
@ trueandreasonable :02/13/2014 at 12:45 pm
“An atheist can believe in ghosts spirits esp and other supernatural things and still be an atheist.”
I don’t get you exactly. How an Atheist can believe in ghosts spirits esp while he is not ready to accept the existence of One-True-God?
Similarly: How can a naturalist accept ghosts etc as a natural phenomenon while he is not ready to accept the One-True-God who exists and the nature has come into existence at His command?
This would be a dire contradiction, I think.
Please elaborate your viewpoint.
Any Atheist or Naturalist could also respond, please.
“The Atheist Blogroll”
http://atheistblogroll.blogspot.ca/
http://atheistblogroll.blogspot.ca/2009/07/join-atheist-blogroll.html
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6770028758565247962&postID=1211001945246933511&page=1&token=1391624970146
I wrote following post on the above “The Atheist Blogroll”:
paarsurrey said…
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. I am not an Atheist or Agnostic or Skeptic; though I respect them and would like to discuss with them; if they stick to reason as far as reason could go.
February 5, 2014 at 10:29 AM
To understand the discussion the viewers are requested to access the following and the comments of other friends in humanity in the context:
makagutu says:
January 29, 2014 at 09:05
I don’t think they address atheists but are trying to keep those in the faith right where they are but convincing them that the arguments for the atheists have been refuted.
I am with you on no unchanging, eternal morality. Morality makes no sense in the absence of sentient beings living in a social group.
Mordanicus says:
January 29, 2014 at 10:22
It’s a kind of psychological ritual, repeating that atheism has been refuted, and if done long enough they will believe it themselves, and hence there would be no further reason to question their own believes.
makagutu says:
January 29, 2014 at 17:19
Ah, reminds me of the saying that some people think by telling themselves the same thing repeatedly it becomes true
paarsurrey says:
January 29, 2014 at 19:14
@ makagutu
“I don’t think they address atheists but are trying to keep those in the faith right where they are but convincing them that the arguments for the atheists have been refuted.”
I think it is the same with the Atheists; they don’t give any arguments that the “One-True-God” doesn’t exist; they want to keep the doubters in their folds.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Note:The Theists as well as Atheists are requested instead of belittling one another they should be serious in their arguments.
Quran Verse [29:70]:
[29:70] And as for those who strive in Our path — We will surely guide them in Our ways. And verily Allah is with those who do good.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=29&verse=69
One of my Atheist friends on another blog has cast doubt on the collection, compiling and preservation of Quran.
I quoted the above verse for the meaning and the reason mentioned in it; and I always do that.
One can, if one likes to, doubt its words; but if there is a reason mentioned in it and one finds it to be truthful; the reason should not be rejected just for the doubt in the literal text.
I think it is a general observation that one who strives and works hard for a thing, and leaves no stone unturned gets successful in the end.
I find similar sentence/writings in other cultures and religious scriptures of the world. If one searches one would testify to its Truth. It is full of wisdom.
One gets fruit of one’s labor to be sure. If one is not sure of one’s search one could never get into any scientific search/research.
For search in the path to reaching One-True-God; He has added assurance to the seekers; they should not be in doubt that they will fail; the honest search will be fruitful.
It is not a bad work to search; it is a positive step and is good for the individual and for the society.
Quran mentions in the very beginning of it while describing the merit and excellences of the believers/seekers:
[2:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[2:2] Alif Lam Mim.
[2:3] This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous,
[2:4] Who believe in the unseen and observe Prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
[2:5] And who believe in that which has been revealed to thee, and that which was revealed before thee, and they have firm faith in what is yet to come.
2:6] It is they who follow the guidance of their Lord and it is they who shall prosper.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=2
The believers/seekers have to be open-minded; and they must confirm the Truth in other scripture as much as it is in them; and the corruption done by scribes has to be pointed out if there is found any. This is what I do; and this is what Quran teaches one to do.
With all the reasons mentioned above; if one still doubts the text of the verse [29:70]: then one should identify the person who wrote or added it to Quran; and give the reference of the Quran which did not contain this verse or with other text in the original Arabic.
The burden of proof is on such claimant/s; no compulsion however.
The Atheists in these blogs are of different hues and shades; they have often stated that they have only one thing in common that they deny existence of God.
They don’t have necessarily to be a scientist or following the scientific method that they have to hide behind many a times. It is sufficient to be ignorant to become an Atheist.
The New Atheists have an additional quality; they disrespect, ridicule and deride while reason rests aside.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
paarsurrey 