It is a wrong concept that Jews were any chosen people if they did wrong.
The Jewry of the time of Moses was summoned at the foot of the Mountain not to reward them. YHWH was not happy with them but to show them His displeasure.
Exodus 16:2
1 Then they set out from Elim, and all the congregation of the sons of Israel came to the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departure from the land of Egypt. 2 The whole congregation of the sons of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness. 3 The sons of Israel said to them, “Would that we had died by the LORD’S hand in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the pots of meat, when we ate bread to the full; for you have brought us out into this wilderness to kill this whole assembly with hunger.”…
The Jews were not worthy of direct converse with YHWH.
The present Jews should understand and ask forgiveness of YHWH.
Please view and comment on my post at <www.religiousforums.com > <Thread : Judaism>. One may like to join the discussion by clicking on the post # below.
Friend Tumah quoted Deuteronomy – Chapter 4:12 to prove that G-d spoke directly to the Israelite nation as a whole.
Deuteronomy does not supersede the points given in Exodus. Deuteronomy cannot change the event as narrated in Exodus, as the event was just happening at that time. Deuteronomy was exhortation addresses of what had already happened.
The text of the chapters 19,20 of Exodus indicates that:
• neither the people went up the mountain (only Moses and Aaron went as per the text) none other went,
• nor YHWH descended to the masses to talk with them directly,
• the masses were afraid of the YHWH lest He wreaks at them. (What chosen people they , the Jews, claim to be?)
• there was a barricade for the Jews, they could no cross it.
• The conversation was between YHWH and Moses in direct manner up at the mountain.
• It is therefore evident that the communication was indirectly conveyed to masses by Moses.
That proves my point.
Moses wanted to save the Jewish people from the iniquities they could perform in future. The Jews disobeyed Moses and as a people acted against the commandments given to them through Moses by God as mentioned in Deuteronomy.
Instead of being a select people, the Jews became the worst people.
This chapter four of Deuteronomy served as a future charge-sheet given to the Jews by Moses himself.
When the Buddha had thus spoken, one of the Brahmans said:
“We are told, Gotama, that the Sakyamuni knows the path to a union with Brahma.” 27
And the Blessed One said: “What do you think, O Brahmans, of a man born and brought up in Manasakata? Would he be in doubt about the most direct way from this spot to Manasakata?” 28
“Certainly not, Gotama.” 29
“Thus,” replied the Buddha, “the Tathagata knows the straightpath that leads to a union with Brahma. He knows it as one who has entered the world of Brahma and has been born in it. There can be no doubt in the Tathagata.” 30
And the two young Brahmans said: “If thou knowest the way show it to us.” 31
And the Buddha said: 32
“The Tathagata sees the universe face to face and understands its nature. He proclaims the truth both in its letter and in its spirit, and his doctrine is glorious in its origin, glorious in its progress, glorious in its consummation. The Tathagata reveals the higher life in its purity and perfection. He can show you the way to that which is contrary to the five great hindrances. 33
The one true God is known by His attributes; naturally therefore in all regions of the world and in all languages He has different names but the same attributes.
Quran solves this issue:
[7:181] And to Allah alone belong all perfect attributes. So call on Him by these. And leave alone those who deviate from the right way with respect to His attributes. They shall be repaid for what they do. http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=7&verse=180
[17:111] Say, ‘Call upon Allah or call upon Rahman; by whichever name you call Him, His are the most beautiful names.’ And utter not thy prayer aloud, nor utter it too low, but seek a way between.
[17:112] And say, ‘All praise belongs to Allah Who has taken unto Himself no son, and Who has no partner in His Kingdom, nor has He anyone to help Him on account of weakness.’ And extol His glory with all glorification. http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=17&verse=110
The religion that Moses brought was truthful in its origin. But now we don’t have anything written by Moses; or the plates that Moses had with teaching from YHWH written down on them; so the message is almost lost unless it is renewed; and there is no need now to change it.
Jews were chosen people in the sense that Moses got revelation from YHWH; it was an honor in the same sense as Hindus were chosen people as the Creator God had conversed with Krishna.
The leader is chosen and with that the whole of his people are thought to be chosen; nothing more than that; they have got no license to sin freely; if they do they would suffer as others would suffer, no discrimination.
Any religion, whatever its name if it is based on the Word of revelation from the Creator God is truthful in its origin as they all come from the same source- the Creator God.
I could not tell where Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s commentary ended and where your opinions began. that said, it is clear that he either knows nothing about Christian eschatology or was intentionally lying to his audience.
paarsurrey Says:
Hi friend methodus
It is all from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908- the Promised Messiah- Imam Mahdi – The Second Coming of Jesus. In his first Coming Jesus never knew anything about Christian eschatology as the present “Christianity” was never founded by Jesus but by clever Paul and the Church. Jesus was a Jew and a follower of the teachings of Moses. It is therefore obvious that Jesus was neither aware of the eschatology of the so called “Christians” in his first coming; nor he needs it in the Second Coming. He is guided by the Word of Revelation from the Creator- God Allah YHWH and so he gives guidance to others very truthfully.
Is this the same quran that real muslims (Shia, Sunni, etc) believe in or is this the magical Ahmediya version ?
Paarsurrey says:
April 8, 2010 at 11:08 am
Hi friend wudjab
Quran, the first and the foremost source of guidance of Islam is the same whatever the denomination; and it has not changed from the time it was revealed. It is the pristine Word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH. It has got all the lasting and truthful teachings of all the religions of the world; including OTBible or Torah and the NTBible.
There are many contradictions and ambiguities in the Bible and their followers are perplexed to note them, as you must have observed. If they have claims for the issues, they don’t have reasons for them in their books and if they have reason, which is very seldom; they don’t have the claims for that in their books.
To resolve such contradictions their followers have to add something from their own selves which mean they add wisdom to their Books which was not there to start with.
All such contradictions and ambiguities are resolved by Quran.
The text of the Quran is the same for Shias, Sunnis and Ahmadis. Ahmadis neither believe in any magic nor do we have any magical version of the Quran.
“Recently a study showed that many ministers don’t believe what they preach.They claim to know what they preach is wrong, but go on preaching it.”
One may think: Can a blind man show path to a blind man? If the pastors don’t know; how could they teach others to know?
It is so simple to understand.
God Almighty has indicated three types of knowledge:
1. Knowledge by certainty of reason,
2. Knowledge by certainty of sight,
3. Knowledge by certainty of experience.
This may be illustrated thus:
When a person perceives smoke from a distance his mind conceives that smoke and fire are inseparable, and therefore where there is smoke there must be fire also. This would be knowledge by the certainty of reason.
Then on a nearer approach he sees the flames of the fire and that is knowledge by the certainty of sight.
If one enters into the fire that would be knowledge by the certainty of experience.
Jesus had himself entered into the fire of knowledge of God that is he received Word of Revelation from the creator- God Allah YHWH Parmatma AhuraMazda.
Paul spoiled all the truthful teachings of Jesus based on Jesus’ experience mentioned above. Paul never spent any time learning from Jesus; so he had no knowledge of certainty. Paul was not even on the first stage of knowledge.
What Paul made up himself; it is enough that “Christians” have been following it blindly till now; but in the present era Paul and the Church have miserably failed.
The secular knowledge has uprooted the myth of Paul’s Theology invented by him at Rome. People don’t speak up and remain silent; but inwardly they have become Atheists and Agnostics.
Christian believers could only maintain their belief if they follow Jesus and Mary and don’t follow Paul and the mythical Church. Only Jesus and Mary could salvage their belief. The Atheists Agnostics are cognizant of the situation prevailing; and hence flexing their muscles to create wedge between the believers and Jesus- one of the perfect men that have been born on this planet Earth.
It is very appropriate time that the believers join in to reform Christianity and set it on to the path based on Teachings of Jesus and Mary and get rid of Paul and the Church to salvage Christians from the attack of Atheists Agnostics based only on doubt. They themselves name it “Skepticism” or path of doubt or devolution.
“Christianity was not at the founding, nor is it now a monolithic “ism” that justifies the domination and suppression of others–not even Wiccan/Pagans”
“Christianity” is a misnomer; it was not founded by Jesus who was Monotheist undoubtedly.”Christianity” was founded by Paul; and since then it did not remain Monotheist; it became a religion of Trinity.
Notwithstanding the above every religion has a right to present their case with reason, rationality and logical arguments to convince the human beings together by supporting with Revelation from the Creator- God Allah YHWH for fulfilling the Ethical, Moral and Spiritual needs of the man. Who wins I don’t mind. If the Atheists have anything useful in these faculties; they also have a right to serve humanity in these areas.
The Religion should be a part of the education of children in Schools; so that they have an idea of Ethics, Morals and the Spiritual progress. There is no harm if the point of view of the Seculars or Humanists or the Atheists is also accommodated in the text books.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
YEAL9 wrote:
February 26, 2010 10:30 AM
More movements (and another Messiah) in a stream of Islamic sects;
“Ahmadiyya (äh mə dē’ yə), a contemporary messianic movement founded (1899) by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1839-1908), b. Qadiyan, the Punjab. His Barahin-i Ahmadiyya, which he began to publish in 1880, was well received by his Islamic community. In 1889, he announced that he had received a divine revelation authorizing him to accept the baya, the allegiance of the faithful; he later also declared himself the Mahdi and the promised Messiah (masih) of Islam (1891).
His doctrine, incorporating Indian, Sufi, Islamic, and Western elements, attempted to revitalize Islam in the face of the British raj, Protestant Christianity, and resurgent Hinduism.
After his death, his followers elected Mawlana Nur ad-Din as his successor. Nur ad-Din died in 1914, and the community split into two branches. The majority remained in Qadiyan and recognized Ghulam Ahmad as prophet (nabi). The basic belief held by the Qadiyani community was and is that it is the sole embodiment of “True Islam.”
The founder’s son, Hadhrat Mirza Bashir ad-Din Mahmud Ahmad (1889-1965), was chosen as Khalifatul-Masih [caliph of the Messiah] by the Qadiyani branch, known today as the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam (jamaat-i ahmadiyya). His half-century of leadership shaped the movement, operating after 1947 out of the city of Rabwah (which they founded and gave a Qur’anically inspired name) in Pakistan and administering a network of schools and hospitals.
His successors have been chosen from among Ghulam Ahmad’s descendants; the leader of the movement (since 2003) is Mirza Masroor Ahmad (b. 1950).
The other branch, less willing to distinguish itself from mainstream Islam, recognized Ghulam Ahmad as a reformer (mujaddid) and established what came to be known as the ahmadiyya anjuman ishaat-i Islam movement in Lahore, Pakistan, also known as the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement. Both branches engage in energetic missionary activity in Nigeria, Kenya, Indonesia, and the Indian subcontinent.”
from: answers.com
Paarsurrey wrote:
February 27, 2010 8:21 AM
Hi friends
Our friend YEAL9 has provided good information about Ahmadiyya. Ahmadiyya is an enlightened movement not only to revitalize Islam but all the Revealed Religions of the world. Since it accepts reason, rationality and revelation as consistent tools of man for life; hence it bridges the gaps between Atheists and Theists also and in this way works for bringing about understanding and peace in the world. Ahmadiyya don’t see any real wedge between Science and Religion; the former being the Work and the later being the Word of the same Creator- God Allah YHWH.
So this proves that not only medicine heals the diseases of man but prayer also heals. In fact it is the combination of both; the prayer should be done and also medicine should be taken, the rest should be left on the Creator- God Allah YHWH, as the real Healer is He alone. Healing is an attribute of the Creator- God Allah YHWH.
paarsurrey 
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