Jesus was not to give up the ghost on the accursed wood; was he?

Hi

Let it be noted that though Christians believe that Jesus (peace be on him) after his arrest through the betrayal by Judas Iscariot, and crucifixion — and resurrection — went to heaven, yet, from the Holy Bible, it appears that this belief of theirs is altogether wrong. Matthew (chapter 12, verse 40) says that just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the bowels of the earth.

Now it is clear that Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; the utmost that happened was that he was in a swoon or a fit of fainting. The holy books of God bear witness that Jonah, by the grace of God, remained alive in the belly of the fish, and came out alive; and his people ultimately accepted him. If then Jesus (on whom be peace) had died in the belly of the ‘fish’, what resemblance could there be between a dead man and the one who was alive, and how could a living one be compared with one dead?

The truth rather is, that as Jesus was a true prophet and as he knew that God, whose beloved he was, would save him from an accursed death, he made a prophecy in the form of a parable, revealed to him by God, in which he hinted that he would not die on the Cross, nor would he give up the ghost on the accursed wood; on the contrary, like the prophet Jonah, he would only pass through a state of swoon. In the parable he had also hinted that he would come out of the bowels of the earth and would then join the people and, like Jonah, would be honoured by them.

So this prophecy too was fulfilled; for Jesus, coming out of the bowels of the earth, went to his tribes who lived in the eastern countries, Kashmir and Tibet, etc. viz. the ten tribes of the Israelites who 721 years1 before Jesus, had been taken prisoner from Samaria by Shalmaneser, King of Assur, and had been taken away by him.

Ultimately, these tribes came to India and settled in various parts of that country. Jesus at all events must have made this journey; for the divine object underlying his advent was that he should meet the lost Jews who had settled in different parts of India; the reason being that these in fact were the lost sheep of Israel who had given up even their ancestral faith in these countries, and most of whom had adopted Buddhism, relapsing, gradually into idolatry.

Dr. Bernier, on the authority of a number of learned people, states in his Travels that the Kashmiris in reality are Jews who in the time of the dispersal in the days of the King of Assur had migrated to this country.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html
I think it is reasonable and it is fom the Bible

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

I respect your religion.
You are welcome to differ with me with reasaons

John the Baptist-was not Elijah reincarnated; but Elijah in character

There took place an interesting discussion on the above topic, initiated by me, on my favorite discussion forum, the hubpages:

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/86392

OP from Paarsurrey

John the Baptist was not Elijah reincarnated; but he was Elijah in character.
The Catholics Protestants wrongly believe that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated; he was not Elijah re-incarnated as wrongly understood by the Christians but he was so in symbolic terms or in character; like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the Promised Messiah of our era; those who die don’t get reincarnated or come again. Elijah did not descend from the skies physically so Jesus will never come again.

1. Brenda Durham posted

I agree with one point–your first sentence.
Most Christians don’t believe in reincarnation. At least, most “protestants” don’t…

2. Paarsurrey posted

I appreciate that

3. Couturepopcafe posted

Where do you come up with this stuff?

4. A Troubled Man posted

At it again, Parr?

5. Emile R posted

Hey paar. I don’t think you’d find many Christians who thought John the Baptist was reincarnated. Reincarnation isn’t a main stream Christian belief. I think they’d wash your mouth out with soap for suggesting it

6. lone77star posted

Would you like to help them out with the soap?

My mouth has been all around reincarnation since I left my grandfather’s ministry.

7. Emile R posted

Don’t be offended. I said not many of you guys. I didn’t say all. Anyway, it was my comment in another thread that made him rush to post this OP. I thought I’d clarify for him.

8. Paarsurrey posted

This is a point which Jesus himself explained that is why I started this thread; yet Christians don’t believe in the truthful teachings of Jesus; they prefer deviant Paul over the truthful Jesus.

9. Emile R posted

I don’t think Paul ever taught about reincarnation. I could be wrong, but as I said; you’ll find few people who strongly profess themselves to be Christian who believe in reincarnation.

10. Paarsurrey posted

My point is that Jesus knew that people will get mislead after him and would invent creeds in his name for their own selfish ends that he never subscribed to; so that purpose in mind he told them that:

1. Jesus was like Adam or man or son of man or son of Adam. This was relating to his birth which did not make him a god or son of god. If Adam was without known father and mother and that did not make him a god or son of god; Jesus born of a mother has not claim of being literally god or son of god.

2.Jesus was like Jonah, a messenger prophet of the Creator God; he was only near-dead in the belly of fish; so was Jesus who was only near dead on the Cross; both survived a cursed death of a false messenger prophet; got cured of the suffering; went to fulfill their mission to the Jews.

3. Nobody ascends to the skies; and nobody comes from the skies. Neither did Elijah ascend to the skies nor would Jesus. Neither would Elijah come again to earth nor would Jesus; for this he told that John the Baptist was Elijah in character.

None of the above was god or son of god; Jesus’ god-head was an invention of the deviant Paul, the sinful scribes and the Church in collaboration.

11. Emile R posted

Nobody ascends to the skies? I thought you guys thought Mohamed did.
Paarsurrey replies now:
Muhammad did not ascend to the skies physically; it was only a spiritual experience in time and space which is called a “kashaf”.

12. Couturepopcafe posted

paars – Please quote Jesus’ explanation.

13. lone77star posted

‘Twas a joke, Emile. Not offended in the slightest.

14. Dave Mathews posted

paarsurrey: John the Baptist was the child of Elizabeth, cousin to Mary. John the Baptist is a prophet of God who proclaims the arrival of Jesus the “Christ”, the Messiah, to the people of Israel in the Jerusalem area at the River Jordan as he baptized the people and preached repentance for their sinfulness.

15. Ms Dee posted

I disagree in that Jesus will come again, just as he left. His first coming was prophesied long ago and then was fulfilled with his first coming. Likewise, his second coming has been prophesied since long ago and will too be fulfilled with his second coming in power as King of Kings.

16. Ms Dee posted

Acts 1:11

17. Rhonda Elisha posted

Hello Ms Dee
The Holy Spirit is referring to his (descending the clouds).

18. Paarsurrey posted

Jesus’ first coming was by birth; so would his 2nd coming by birth and then achieving his status in character.

19. Rhonda Elisha posted

There is no mention of Elijah birth in Scripture he is only first addressed: In Scripture (1 Kings) “As the prophet from Gilead.” Remember: Elijah did not die! God took him as was done of Enoch: As noted: In Scripture (Genesis 5:24) “Enoch was in constant fellowship with God and God took him.” As noted: (In Scripture (Malachi 4:5) “God speaks of the prophet who will come like Elijah.” And as also noted: In Scripture (Luke 1:13-17) “The angel Gabriel explains to Zacharias as the child (Yohanan/John the baptist) being like the former prophet Elijah. This scripture is spoken in the literal; (Yohanan/John the baptist) came like Elijah. (Yohanan/John the baptist) is Elijah. Yohanan/John the baptist was created by God having the same attributes and spirit as Elijah, being Elijah. Confirmed: In Scripture ( Mattathiah/Matthew 11:7-14).

Concerning: Reincarnation
As noted: In Scripture (Job 33:29-30) “God sometimes brings a soul from the pit to live among those of the living”
This, thus, demonstrate God power to revive those from death to live again and clarifying also the existence of hell.

As noted: In Scripture (Daniel 12:13) God says to Daniel: “That he will live out the rest of his life and go to eternal peace but will rise again to share in the last days.”
This, thus, demonstrate God power to revive those from death to live again and clarifying the existence of heaven. (The promised rest).

Concerning: The existence of heaven
As noted: In Scripture (Job 33:23-24) “The Holy Spirit speaks of messengers from heaven whom sometimes intercede as a friend for man to God and God shows pity, therefore, setting that man free from death.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and it’s inhabitance.

As noted: In Scripture (8:1-2) “The Lord today resides in heaven where he ministers in the Temple.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and it’s inhabitance.

Concerning: The existence of hell and heaven
As noted: In Scripture (Luke 18:19-31) “The rich man and Eleazer the begger.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and hell. The Holy Spirit also speaks of Abraham being in the place of the righteous dead.

As noted: In Scripture (1 Peter 3:18-21) “The Lord after his death of mercy, visit and ministers to those whom were sentenced to hell after the flood.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of hell.

Through examination of scripture and the giving understanding of the Holy Spirit; many of God’s giving servants and prophets are (created) by God for his purpose of plan.
For all their mother’s mentioned were those being barren.
Several Illustrations being:

The Israelites:
Sarah was barren: God promise Abraham and Sarah a son, In Scripture (Genesis 18:19) God says: “And I have picked him out to have godly descendants and a godly household, men who are just and good, so that I can do for him all I have promised. This son is Isaac. The one to father (Esau and Jacob). Jacob whom will in-turn be the first born son of God creation of the Israelites. Therefore, Isaac being God plan of purpose for his creation of the Israelites. This gives understanding to God words spoken from Moses to the king of Egypt: As noted: In Scripture (Exodus 4:22) “God tells Moses to inform the King of Egypt: “Israel is his first son and chooses to worship him. He is to let Israel go free.” Israel representing Jacob, the one whom gained the birthright as the first born son.

Jacob wife Rachel:
In Scripture (Genesis 29:31) (Genesis 30:22) “Because of Jacob treatment toward Leah, God allowed Leah to be fertile but Rachel was barren. except in the end God pitied Rachel and she conceived two sons to Jacob (Joseph and later Benjamin).” Both Joseph and Benjamin as was (Isaac), God creation for his plan of purpose.

Judah and Tamar:
In Scripture (Genesis 38) “The child (Perez) whom was God plan of purpose from this union.” became the descendant of king David from the tribe of Judah whom united with Benjamin the sons of Isaac. (The line of the Messiah).

Prophet Samuel:
In Scripture (1Samuel) “Hannah had no children, she was barren. Hannah prays and pleads to God for a child. God answers Hannah prayer and gives her a son. (He is Samuel). And as was Isaac, Joseph and Benjamin; (Samuel) was God creation for his plan of purpose.

Yohanan/John the baptist:
In Scripture (Luke 1:1-25) “Zacharias the husband of Elizabeth wife was barren; he prayed to God for a son. God answered his prayer and Elizabeth conceived and birthed Yohanan/John the baptist). God creation for his plan of purpose.

God is supreme in all his works, man cannot comprehend his wisdom, unless allowed by him through understanding. He is the creator of all things, therefore, capable of anything; which is why we Praise and Thank God the Father his Son and his Holy Spirit for their mercy, for all men, even in their good works are worthy of (Hell).

Read: (Mattathiah/Matthew 22:29-32)

20. Rhonda Elisha posted

Typo: from above

As noted: In Scripture (Hebrews 8:1-2) “The Lord today resides in heaven where he ministers in the Temple.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and it’s inhabitance.

21. lone77star posted

Beautiful, Rhonda. Some very potent wisdom.

And isn’t it humility that is required by scientist and believer alike in the search for answers? If we think we already know, then we won’t look.

If we think we already have, we won’t ask.

22. lone77star posted

Interesting opinion, @paarsurrey. I’m not sure which Catholics or Protestants you’ve talked to, but I don’t know of many who accept reincarnation. My wife is Catholic and she does accept it, but she’s rather unique. And my denomination has only one member.

Just because you can’t remember doesn’t mean you didn’t. Many people do remember. And there are many people who are delusional, too. Their delusion doesn’t disprove reincarnation, though.

http://www.the-love-of-god.com/reincarn … -bible.php

http://www.the-love-of-god.com/reincarn … tories.php

“But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands. Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist” (Matt. 17:12-13).

What did Jesus say? Did he say the character of Elijah has already come? I don’t think so. He said “Elijah has already come.”

One Christian website erroneously claims (as an argument against John being Elijah) that, “First, the concept of reincarnation would have been completely foreign to the Jewish mind” (http://www.gotquestions.org/John-Baptist-Elijah.html).

What’s funny about this claim is that it’s entirely false based on scripture and based on the fact that one modern group of Jews (Kabbalists) have always believed in reincarnation and were there from the beginning. In fact, my own exegetical research turned up the Kabbalist’s “Tree of Life” embedded in Genesis. So many Jews asked John if he was a prophet reborn. If they didn’t believe in reincarnation, they wouldn’t have asked.

Heck, the disciples asked Jesus about a blind man if he had done something to deserve being “born” blind. Yep, reincarnation.

Church father, Origen, talked about reincarnation (transmigration of souls), but 200 years later, he was declared “anathema.” Basically, the church outlawed “reincarnation.”

And reincarnation isn’t such an “Eastern” idea, either. The Celts believed in reincarnation, much to the consternation of Julius Caesar.

Jesus told his followers that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. How does this hold up under scrutiny? Well, there are numerous bad hats who died of old age in the comfort of their villas paid for by the blood of others. They didn’t suffer the same sword they had wielded in life.

So, how can what Jesus said be true? Numbers 14:18 offers a clue. Only the perpetrator himself pays for the sins of the father, but 3 and 4 generations later. That’s reincarnation.

How could reincarnation be in so many places throughout the Bible?

Just look at Genesis 1:26-27. Man was created in the image of God. That would make the truer part of us “non-physical, spiritual and immortal sources of creation.” Yes, “baby gods.” Just don’t let your ego know about it.

Paarsurrey writes here:

There is no reincarnation; those who die never come again to this earthly abode.

Jesus wanted to tell the Jews that John the Baptist was Elijah in character and so will Jesus come again only in character.
It has already happened; Second Coming has taken place in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 who is the Promised Messiah in character and has come to tell the true teachings of Jesus which had been corrupted by the deviant Paul, the mislead church and the sinful scribes of the gospels and had invented new creeds in Jesus’ name or supported them.

Jesus never believed that he was a god or the son of god or Jesus was to ascend to the skies literally and physically or Jesus was to resurrect from the physically dead.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has exposed all the false creeds of Paul, Church and the scribes; all these (Paul, Church and the scribes- the authors of the Trinity) together are the Anti-Christ and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah- his advent has taken place to refute their rebellious stance against Jesus, as Jesus’ spirit wanted that it should to be proved wrong, with the brilliant arguments of the Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and this way the their false creeds/teachings/characters be killed before their eulogizers.

It is the real spiritual Armageddon, which is to establish the Unity of the ONE true Creator God and the truth of Muhammad and Quran and to support all the truthful messengers prophets in all regions of the world, with peace, love and reasonable dialogue by convincing hearts and souls.

Hubpages is a good discussion site; one could comment there or here in this blog; comments are most welcome.

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/86392

Jesus in the tomb: Catholics Protestants to count 3 days

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4725&p=91937#p91937

Nosubmission wrote:

More, Jesus said that the parallelism between Himself and Jonah was confined to the time of stay in a place: 3 days.

Paarsurrey says:

Now please enumerate period of 3 days, as you have mentioned. I am sure no Catholic or Protestant would ever be able to count these three days also.

Paarsurrey wrote after 3, 4 days, as no Catholic Protestant came forward to count the period of 3 days:

Hi friends

No Catholic or Protestant enumerates the period of 3 days; none a witness to it. This was not the essence of Sign of Jonah; the essence was not to die. Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; so must Jesus not die in the incident of putting him on the Cross. It is easy; the Catholics and Protestant should understand and come out of the hotch potch of Paul and the Church. Why make your religion/faith an absurdity before Atheists Agnostics for nothing?

Jesus was a wise Prophet of the Creator-God Allah YHWH; he and his mother never believed in such absurdities.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god?

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/jesus-had-no-claim-on-divinity/

Aaron Says:

You quote from the Bible as the source for your answer. That’s great. Do you know what the Bible says concerning the charge made by the Jews against Jesus?

Paarsurrey says:

Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.

Jesus pegged his biggest sign with Jonah; and Jonah was only a Prophet; for just repeating the same sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god? The Catholics and Protestants should ponder over this; if they believe in an iota of reason in the NTBible.

Since you believe in OTBible, please quote the punishment Jews had from Moses for the claimant of divinity?

Perhaps that answers your question also.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Counting of Jesus- 3 days in the tomb- by Catholics Protestants

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/posting.php?mode=quote&f=26&p=91280

Nosubmission says:

More, Jesus said that the parallelism between Himself and Jonah was confined to the time of stay in a place: 3 days.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Since your stand is wrong so you won’t stay even on 3 days, for sure.

Now please enumerate period of 3 days, as you have mentioned. I am sure no Catholic or Protestant would ever be able to count these three days also.

Cunning Paul and Church frustrated Jesus’ showing the Sign of Jonah; Paul had to. Paul was an enemy of Jesus; when he observed that Jesus had gone out of reach of Jews plan of killing Jesus; Paul started character assassination of Jesus; and the first casualty was Jesus ever showing Sign of Jonah; as to how the Creator- God Allah YHWH saved Jesus cursed death on Cross. Paul took it on himself to prove to the simple minded “Christians”, whom Jesus named sheep that Jesus had died on the Cross for their salvation. Paul himself could not attain salvation; what salvation could he prepare for the Catholics Protestants?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Sinful scribes were not eyewitnesses of crucifixion

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4808&p=80301#p80301

Islam poses no threat to the freedom of thought

ThereIs1Adonai wrote:

The Bible had many writers with revelations that added to the message of God, and they were often eyewitnesses to the events they wrote about.

Hi friend ThereIs1Adonai

I don’t agree with the contents of your post due to following reasons, to start with.

1. Paul never spent anytime with Jesus, he was therefore not an eyewitness; yet his accounts have been included in the Bible for nothing.
2. The theme of the Bible, a human devised theme, is to mention the event of the Cross. None of the four gospel writers was an eyewitness of the event of the crucifixion of Jesus. As per Matthew; they all fled away.
3. Jesus did receive Word of Revelation from the Creator-God Allah YHWH; none of the scribes of NT received any Word from the Creator- God Allah YHWH; they were not capable of receiving it as they were sinful persons. They deserted Jesus when he needed them most.
4. Even the account of the event of the Cross they wrote from hearsay was incorrect; as Jesus never died on Cross, he was though put on the Cross, yet he was delivered from it in a near-dead position. The Creator- God Allah YHWH saved his life like He saved Jonah’s life in a very difficult and odd postion. He was treated in the tomb he was laid in by his trusted friends and when his injuries inflicted on the Cross got healed he migrated to the lost sheep of Israel who were in exile.

Paul and the gospel writers were therefore, in my opinion, not trustworthy persons and Jesus had in effect warned against such persons.

Atheists Agnostics to please join the discussion on this issue believing in God and the Revelation first.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Son of God, Alpha Omega, Word Incarnate, Lamb of God: only parables

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4808

Shaunm1963 wrote:

AND if you LOVE Jesus and Mary (as mentioned in the Koran) do you also believe that Jesus is the Son of God and the Word Incarnate and the Alpha and Omega and the Lamb of God? What do you MEAN you LOVE them???

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend Shaunm1963

Yes, I love Jesus and Mary like I love all the Messengers Prophets mentioned in Quran i.e. Moses, Moses’ mother, Noah, Jonah etc. They were exemplary personalities for the human beings; that is why they were selected by the Creator-God Allah YHWH as Models for humanity.

1. I don’t believe Jesus to be son of god, in its literal meaning; yes I believe that he was one of the persons whom the Creator- God loved.

2. Jesus was never a Word incarnate in its literal meaning; but in the meaning that all the Messenger Prophets fulfilled the purpose of the creations of human beings; in that sense all the Messengers are the Word incarnate; nothing special with Jesus.

3. In the same sense all Messengers are Alpha and Omega; in the image of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; and they fulfill the purpose of human creation.

4. All the Messengers have to suffer and make sacrifices in the way of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; they are all Lambs of God, nothing special with Jesus.

5. Jesus talked in parables; the sinful and deserting scribes and the Church did not understand the parables sometimes and took it literally; they carved myths from the parables, we don’t have to follow their mistakes unnecessarily for nothing.

The human society is and must be rational, reasonable and logical; it cannot live in mythical castles. It is for this that I say the Jesus of Bible is no more relevant in the West. Jesus and Mary of Quran are real and relevant for the West and hence they must be loved as their celebrities.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran; not the mythical ones as mentioned by the cunning Paul and sinful scribes in the NT.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

How could a living Jonah be compared with the dead Jesus, as the Christians incorrectly believe?

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah, the Second Coming says:

Let it be noted that though Christians believe that Jesus (peace be on him) after his arrest through the betrayal by Judas Iscariot, and crucifixion — and resurrection — went to heaven, yet, from the Holy Bible, it appears that this belief of theirs is altogether wrong. Matthew (chapter 12, verse 40) says that just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the bowels of the earth.

Now it is clear that Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; the utmost that happened was that he was in a swoon or a fit of fainting. The holy books of God bear witness that Jonah, by the grace of God, remained alive in the belly of the fish, and came out alive; and his people ultimately accepted him. If then Jesus (on whom be peace) had died in the belly of the ‘fish’, what resemblance could there be between a dead man and the one who was alive, and how could a living one be compared with one dead?

The truth rather is, that as Jesus was a true prophet and as he knew that God, whose beloved he was, would save him from an accursed death, he made a prophecy in the form of a parable, revealed to him by God, in which he hinted that he would not die on the Cross, nor would he give up the ghost on the accursed wood; on the contrary, like the prophet Jonah, he would only pass through a state of swoon.

In the parable he had also hinted that he would come out of the bowels of the earth and would then join the people and, like Jonah, would be honoured by them. So this prophecy too was fulfilled; for Jesus, coming out of the bowels of the earth, went to his tribes who lived in the eastern countries, Kashmir and Tibet, etc. viz. the ten tribes of the Israelites who 721 years1 before Jesus, had been taken prisoner from Samaria by Shalmaneser, King of Assur, and had been taken away by him.

Ultimately, these tribes came to India and settled in various parts of that country. Jesus at all events must have made this journey; for the divine object underlying his advent was that he should meet the lost Jews who had settled in different parts of India; the reason being that these in fact were the lost sheep of Israel who had given up even their ancestral faith in these countries, and most of whom had adopted Buddhism, relapsing, gradually into idolatry.

Dr. Bernier, on the authority of a number of learned people, states in his Travels that the Kashmiris in reality are Jews who in the time of the dispersal in the days of the King of Assur had migrated to this country.2
In any case it was necessary for Jesus (peace be on him) to find out the whereabouts of these lost sheep, who had, on coming to this country, India, become merged into the other people. I shall presently adduce evidence that Jesus (peace be on him) did in fact come to India and then, by stages, travelled to Kashmir, and discovered the lost sheep of Israel among the people who professed the Buddhist faith and that these people ultimately accepted him, just as the people of the prophet Jonah accepted Jonah.

And this was inevitable; for Jesus had said in so many words that he had been sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

“One more little question; did Joseph Smith believe that Jesus was God?”Ah, this little question is a really big question

Markparker1 says:

“One more little question; did Joseph Smith believe that Jesus was God?”

Ah, this little question is a really big question.

Firstly we do not believe in the Trinity as adopted by Christian sects around the 4th century after Christ.

Paarsurrey says:

Well, Jesus was an upright person; he neither believed in Trinity nor in Duality. Jesus’ belief was as simple as of Moses, Abraham, Noah and Jonah; as they were with the same Message from God Allah YHWH.

It becomes clealr to me that Joseph Smith was neither visited by God Allah YHWH nor by Jesus. The conclusion drwan by the Mormons are neither depicted in the text of the first vision of Joseph Smith, nor are in confirmity with the context of the beliefs of Moses, Abraham, Noah, Jonah and Jesus and other Prophest of the Old Testament.

Paul and Joseph Smith seem to be the same complicated persons; had got nothing to do with Jesus or God Allah YHWH; hence their destiny was similar; they were killed in terms of Deuteronmy; as they were never legitimately appointed by by God Allah YHWH in the first place.

I don’t mind if somebody wants to covert me to his faith; this is his right, which he should establish rightly.

One of our friends, Maaark, who is also an ex-LDS person has aloso commented in this connection, you may if you like reply his understandings in the matter.

I love Jesus and Mary as depicted in Quran; not the ones described by Paul or Joseph Smith.

Please don’t mind; you are a friend. I don’t have anything against you or the Mormon Christians, we are just discussing the things in search of truth and comparing our notes. I respect your faith and you have a right to defend your faith; which please continue doing boldly. There is no intention to malign the Mormon Christians, a good people.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The Messengers Prophets are always appointed by God Allah YHWH; a sole discretion of Him; not of Jesus

Randall says:

Just to put it out there, Joseph Smith was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ, and as far as I know, God the Father and Allah are the same being.

Paarsurrey says:

Welcome to visit paarsurrey – a blog for interfaith peaceful discussions.

I would like you to first read my following latest post on Paul and Joseph Smith:

Paul and Joseph Smith claimed they were Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of Jesus; so strictly speaking they never legitimately claimed to be Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of God Allah YHWH

I would humbly submit the following points in this connection:

1. The Messengers Prophets are always appointed by God Allah YHWH; a sole discretion of Him; Jesus though one of the truthful Messengers Prophets of God like unto Jonah, yet he or anybody else could not and cannot appoint anyone as a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH on behalf of God Allah YHWH. This appointement simply does not fall under the discretion of Jesus. I understand that the cunning Paul and Joseph Smith claimed they were Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of Jesus; so strictly speaking they never legitimately claimed to be Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of God Allah YHWH in the first place.

2. Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross; he survived against all odds. Jesus migrated to India, after getting cured from the injuries inflicted on the Cross; he is said to have died at the age of 120/125 years, a very natural and respectful death there. Paul claimed in the absence of Jesus when he was in India; so Paul’s claim was not truthful and hence he suffered the destiny as described in Deuteronomy very clearly.

3. Jesus was appointed by God Allah YHWH as Messenger Prophet, hence, he survived a cursed death on Cross; that proves that he was a truthful Messenger Prophets of God Allah YHWH. Joseph Smith was ignorant of all these things; so I think he did not legitimately claimed to be a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH; further he suffered the same fate; he was killed as clearly defined in Deuteronomy. He was ignorant about what happened to Jesus and Paul. Sorry; I cannot accept him as a legitimate claimant.

4. I do not intend to start any bashing of Paul or Joseph Smith; they did whatever they liked to do and I don’t hate them; yet I have to believe things in a straighforward manner; so this is what I bleive very sincerely; a statement of faith of me. Please don’t mind.

Randal my friend!Please keep on visiting and favoring with your valuable comments. Please feel free to express yourself fully here.

I admire the Mormons Christians for their charitable and polite discussions.

You are a nice friend.

I love Jesus and Mary as beautifully and truthfully described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim