I will give here a “litmus” test to verify a Christian from a Muslim and the vice versa:
There is not a single Muslim in the world (a)who believes that Jesus died on Cross, it is so clearly mentioned in Quran. So, according to Muslims (b)Jesus never needed to be resurrected from the dead as he never died on Cross in the first place. Hence(c) Jesus was never Son of God or God or God in the flesh or God in the human form as per Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
There is not a single Christian, in my knowledge, who does not believe that (a)Jesus died a cursed death on Cross for the sinful Christians; later as per the Christian faith (b)Jesus got resurrected to life from the dead, and hence(3) he was God and he sat on the right hand of God, assuming all-power.
This is, to me, the (incorrect) building block of Pauline-Christian faith which the credulous Christians have been made to believe by sinful Paul; and never by innocent Jesus .
It is true that Mark 14 mentions two times of Jesus’ funeral/burial when a woman poured perfume on Jesus’ body but Jesus’ funeral/burial was held, I understand, much time later as he died at the age of 120 years according to some traditions. Jesus funeral ceremonies were not to be performed any time sooner in the near future (and it is not reported per se by any of the 4 Gospels ) as Jesus was not to die and Jesus could not die* on the Cross.
Jesus was a truthful Messenger of G-d and only false Messengers** (Deuteronomy 13:1–5 and 18:18–22 ) are to die on the Cross as per Torah. It is a mistake to believe, I figure, that Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross. Had Jesus died on the Cross then Jesus’ body would have been given the last cleaning bath and the last funeral service would have been held before he was layed in the grave of Joseph of Arimathea, please? But there is no mention of these things having been performed by the followers for Jesus. It is a strong clue that Jesus did not die on the Cross and he could not die on the Cross, please? Right? Kindly correct me if I am wrong, please. Right?
Regards
*Deuteronomy 21:23 “A Man Hanged on a Tree Is Cursed”
3 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke unto thee–saying: ‘Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them’;
4 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God putteth you to proof, to know whether ye do love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
5 After the LORD your God shall ye walk, and Him shall ye fear, and His commandments shall ye keep, and unto His voice shall ye hearken, and Him shall ye serve, and unto Him shall ye cleave.
6 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken perversion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of bondage, to draw thee aside out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee. {S}
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him. {S}
The treatise puts forward the view that Jesus survived crucifixion, left Judea and migrated eastward in order to continue his mission to the ‘Lost Tribes of Israel’, traveling through Persia and Afghanistan and eventually dying a natural and honourable death in Kashmir at an old age. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) applied textual analysis of both the Gospels and Islamic sources – the Quran and hadith – and also drew upon medical and historical material, including ancient Buddhist records, to argue his case. Jesus In India | Islam Ahmadiyya
Regards
“I can tell you one things . . . Christians can’t count“. Unquote #620 paarsurrey
Please elaborate on one’s reasonable evidences/proofs from Religion as well as from science, if any.
One is exposing fallibility of Bahaullah, here, unnecessarily. Right, please?
Regards
Tonxxxxxxxx said: ↑
There is ample proof. There is much more to life than material senses, so no guess is needed, as it takes good logic and good reasoning.
The bible gives this option as being ‘Born Again’. That is someting that can be done in this life, if one so chooses.
I agree with one, your’s is a reasonable approach.
I understand that Bahaullah wrote something in favor of science, yet the Bahaism people prefer to follow him in blind-faith as if they are living in the abode of mythology. Don’t they, please?
Regards
How does one know of all/each of these things. Just guessing, please?
The Church Councils canonized NT Bible unauthorized. Gospel of Thomas is no less reliable than other other gospels.
Thomas certified after the event of Crucifixion that Jesus did not die on the Cross by putting his hands in the wounds of the body of Jesus and seeing and observing with his own eyes that Jesus was in the same body as Jesus was before the crucifixion:
John 20:25
So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
John 20:27 26After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.”27Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
PAARSURREY says:
May 25, 2014 at 8:09 pm
@THE ARBOURIST :May 25, 2014 at 2:34 pm
@JOHN ZANDE :May 25, 2014 at 3:18 pm
There are a few points two of them are given below:
1. Joseph Smith said he was sent by Jesus as he wrongly believed following the Pauline theological concepts. He thought that Jesus had died on the Cross; he got resurrected from the dead; making Jesus a god or son of god. Factually speaking none of the above ever happened.
2. Jesus did not die on the cross; so there was no question of his resurrection from the dead. Jesus was put on the cross but he was delivered from it in near-dead position. He was treated for his injuries in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea; when he got recovered enough to travel he went out of Judea taking refuge along-with his mother Mary in Kashmir, a serene land of fountains and scenic beauty in India; thus saving his life from his Jewish and Roman enemies. Paul was a personification of both of these enemies in one.
To refresh you of the facts in this case, I recommend viewing the following documentaries please:
Further to my post/comments of May 25, 2014 at 8:09 pm, I have to add that Deuteronomy commands unequivocally that a false prophet must be killed, he cannot die a natural death:
Deuteronomy:Chapter 13:1-5
[1] If there rise in the midst of thee a prophet or one that saith he hath dreamed a dream, and he foretell a sign and a wonder, [2] And that come to pass which he spoke, and he say to thee: Let us go and follow strange gods, which thou knowest not, and let us serve them: [3] Thou shalt not hear the words of that prophet or dreamer: for the Lord your God trieth you, that it may appear whether you love him with all your heart, and with all your soul, or not. [4] Follow the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and hear his voice: him you shall serve, and to him you shall cleave. [5] And that prophet or forger of dreams shall be slain: because he spoke to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you from the house of bondage: to make thee go out of the way, which the Lord thy God commanded thee: and thou shalt take away the evil out of the midst of thee.
Joseph Smith was killed so in terms of OT Bible he is not a truthful prophet; he was not sent by God; and since Jesus died a natural death in India and a dead man cannot send a prophet or messenger; hence Joseph Smith was not a truthful person/claimant.
PAARSURREY says:
May 27, 2014 at 7:45 pm
@ROBINOBISHOP :May 27, 2014 at 2:05 pm
“John,
Didn’t know you were secretly a Bible believer.”
It is because Atheism has grown in the West in reaction to the mythical creeds invented and spread by Paul in the world.
The Pauline Christians cannot defend “Christianity”; the real teachings of Jesus could be defended; and most Atheists could revert to religion.
@ratamacue0
“If Jesus was not raised from the dead, then what happened? What are alternate hypotheses of what really happened, and how Christianity came to exist?”
Jesus did not die on the Cross to start with; though he was put on the Cross but delivered from it near-dead never the less alive. For further detail, I suggest to read the following small book available on line:
@(Matt) Brisancian ; MARCH 15, 2014 AT 9:12 AM
“Recognize the level of the claim and the level of the needed support.”
I agree with you; resurrection from the dead is a big claim and the whole Christianity is based on this; so its proofs and evidences also must be very strong and certain.
paarsurrey Says:
February 16, 14 at 5:31 am
@ Scott Thong
@Simon Thong
I have noted some points in the opening paragraph of your post; and I will discuss them one by one.
A large boulder was put on the entrance of the tomb so that some wild animals should not kill Jesus while unconscious or asleep in the tomb
Scott Thong wrote:
1. “First, a large boulder had been placed at the entrance of the tomb. “
Paarsurrey says:
A large boulder was placed as Jesus was inside the tomb and was in unconscious conditions due to the injuries inflicted on him on the cross, though he was being treated by Nicodemus, a physician, with the ointment prepared by him from a large and unusual quantity of herbs Aloe and Myrrh, healing weeds, as mentioned in the Bible; nevertheless; I think, the boulder was placed at the entrance of the tomb at night; so that some wild animals like dogs or jackals etc don’t endanger life of Jesus in the tomb whether unconscious or after treatment in his sound sleep.
I appreciate the efforts of disciples of Jesus while they were busy doing their utmost to save the injured Jesus by his treatment in the tomb of Armathea.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the Promised Messiah- Second Coming of Jesus, mentions about this stone or boulder in the book “Jesus in India” thus:
“Jesus compared his three days’ stay in the tomb to the three days of Jonah in the belly of the whale. This only shows that just as Jonah remained alive for three days in the belly of the whale, so did Jesus remain alive for three days in the tomb. The Jewish tombs of those days were not like the tombs of to-day; they were roomy and had an opening on one side, which was covered with a big stone. And, presently, I shall prove in due course that Jesus’ tomb which has been recently discovered in Srinagar in Kashmir is of the same type as the one in which Jesus was placed in a state of swoon.”
The main points of the book “Jesus in India” by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi are given below:
1. Jesus did not die on the Cross; he survived a cursed death on it.
2. Jesus was treated for his injuries inflicted on him on the Cross in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea.
3. When Jesus’ injuries on the Cross were healed to the extent he could make a journey; he came out of the tomb and he met his disciples secretly to tell them that he survived and is the same person with the same body he had before he was put on the Cross.
4. Then he went to Galilee; he did not and could not ascend to heavens; instead he secretly going up the hill went towards India; along with his mother Mary.
5. Jesus traveled to India in search of and to meet the ten lost tribes of house of Israel who were settled in different parts of India.
6. The book provided the root map of Jesus travel to India.
7. Jesus visited different part of India and ultimately settled in Kashmir, India.
8. He died a natural and physical death in India; and his grave is still found at Mohalla Khanyar, Srinagar, Kashmir, India.
9. Jesus is not to come again literally and physically and his symbolic Second Coming has been fulfilled in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908.
10. I give below the headings of the chapter of the book:
Introduction
Chapter 1
• Evidence from the Gospels
Chapter 2
• Evidence from the Quran and Authentic traditions
Chapter 3
• Evidence derived from Medical Literature
• List of Books mentioning Marham-i-Isa (ointment of Jesus), and that the Ointment was Prepared for Jesus’ Wounds
Chapter 4
• Evidence from Historical Records
Section 1:
• Evidence from Islamic literature concerning Jesus’ journeys
• Probable Route Map of Jesus’ Journey to India
Section 2:
• Evidence from Buddhist Records
Section 3:
• Evidence from Historical Writings which Show that Jesus’ Journey to the Punjab and Neighbouring Territories was Inevitable
• List of 24 Tribes of Abdalees
Appendix http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_India_(book)
Crosses mark the graves. The cross on the right is the alleged grave of Jesus Christ.
Sign explaining the legend of the grave of Jesus Christ, in Japanese.
Shingō village is the location of what is purported to be the last resting place of Jesus, located in the “Tomb of Jesus” (Kirisuto no haka), and the residence of Jesus’ last descendants, the family of Sajiro Sawaguchi.[1] According to the Sawaguchi family’s claims, Jesus Christ did not die on the cross at Golgotha. Instead his brother, Isukiri,[2] took his place on the cross, while Jesus fled across Siberia to Mutsu Province, in northern Japan. Once in Japan, he became a rice farmer, married, and raised a family with three daughters near what is now Shingō. While in Japan, it is asserted that he traveled, learned, and eventually died at the age of 106. His body was exposed on a hilltop for four years. According to the customs of the time, Jesus’ bones were collected, bundled, and buried in the mound purported to be the grave of Jesus Christ.[3][4]
Another mound near the alleged grave of Jesus is said to contain an ear of the brother of Jesus and a lock of hair from Mary, the mother of Jesus, the only relics of his family Jesus could carry when he fled Judaea.[5] The claims started in 1933 after the discovery of supposed “ancient Hebrew documents detailing Jesus’ life and death in Japan” [6] that was supposedly the testament of Jesus. These documents were allegedly seized by the Japanese authorities and taken to Tokyo shortly before World War II and have not been seen since.[7]
The English text on the sign explaining the legend of the Tomb of Christ reads:
When Jesus Christ was 21 years old, he came to Japan and pursued knowledge of divinity for 12 years. He went back to Judea at age 33 and engaged in his mission. However, at that time, people in Judea would not accept Christ’s preaching. Instead, they arrested him and tried to crucify him on a cross. His younger brother, Isukiri casually took Christ’s place and ended his life on the cross.Christ, who escaped the crucifixion, went through the ups and downs of travel, and again came to Japan. He settled right here in what is now called Herai Village, and died at the age of 106.On this holy ground, there is dedicated a burial mound on the right to deify Christ, and a grave on the left to deify Isukiri.The above description was given in a testament by Jesus Christ.
Paarsurrey says:
Quoting from the post:
“The truthfulness of Christianity solely hangs on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified under Pontius Pilate, died and was buried and on the third day he rose again leaving an empty tomb. If this is not true, Christianity is false, period.”
Paul the founder of the modern “Christianity” -a misnomer, with 32000+ denominations based his religion on
1. the death of Jesus on the cross,
2. Jesus’ resurrection from the literal and physical dead and
3. On Jesus’ ascension to the right hand of Christian-God
These concepts have nothing to do with Jesus or his truthful teachings. Jesus was a Jew and was never a Christian and he believed in the one true God and the truthful religion.
And Paul’s admission to this is on record:
Corinthians 15:1-4
“15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.” http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+15%3A1-4&version=NIV
So, modern Christianity with all its denominations that believe in the three aforementioned concepts is false as admitted by Paul.
The truthfulness of Christianity solely hangs on the belief that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified under Pontius Pilate, died and was buried and on the third day he rose again leaving an empty tomb. If this is not true, Christianity is false, period.
Most Christians believe that Jesus rose again leaving an empty tomb through the internal work of God’s Spirit. But is it possible for a Christian to be prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks her for the sensibleness of her belief? Can a Christian, with love, gentleness and respect, present a persuasive historical case to show that it is rationally justified to believe that Jesus rose again from the dead?
This first part of my article seeks to demonstrate the rationality of the resurrection hypothesis using minimal facts methodology. Divorcing historical data from best explanation of that data, I chose two leading contemporary non-Christians New…
paarsurrey 