Posts Tagged ‘Bible’

“What is the correct way to interpret the Bible?”

October 31, 2017

Thread: “Did Jesus and or John the Baptist believe in Trinity? ”

Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Islam

 Post 21: 

—— wrote:
How do you identify which parts were added later? What is your method?

paarsurrey wrote:

Some of them I give below:
1. Jesus was a Jew, he followed the teachings given by Moses so anything in the NT Bible that is against the teachings of Moses, is not from Jesus.
2. Jesus metioned things in the usage of Torah of Moses, so anything Jesus said is to be interpreted from the usage of Moses’ Torah.
3. YHVH’s on attribute is All-Wise, so anything against the normal or against the reason/wisdom or the common sense is not from YHVH whom Jesus believed and addressed as God-the-Father.
4. The most ancient Bibles reportedly didn’t have them but the later versions show them. The textual anaylasis of the Bible done by the scholars point them out.

And there are other points which I mentioned in the thread “What is the correct way to interpret the Bible?”, forum Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma . Right, please?

Regards

OOOOOOOOOOOO

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/jesus-mention-touchstone-of-christian-scriptures/

The method of purification of Bible suggested by me is reasonably inferred from the above Jesus’ core teachings.

1. “This is the first and greatest commandment” hence, I think, Jesus would be happy if it is used as touch stone of his teachings and those which contradict with it are dubious and must be discarded.
2. “All the Law”; here he means that his teachings are for revival of Moses’ law; those of his teachings that conform to it only that must be accepted the rest discarded. This adds further purity to # 1.
3. “And the Prophets”; if the teachings have been mentioned by the prophets that further would ensure correctness.
4. “Love your neighbor as yourself”; all teachings that your neighbors don’t understand being mythical, not accepted by common sense and unreasonable should not be accepted.

Quran also confirms this principle:

[3:8] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it there are verses that are decisive in meaning — they are the basis of the Book — and there are others that are susceptible of different interpretations. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue such thereof as are susceptible of different interpretations, seeking discord and seeking wrong interpretation of it. And none knows its right interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge; they say, ‘We believe in it; the whole is from our Lord.’ — And none heed except those gifted with understanding. —

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=3

I think with this measure Judaism, Christianity and Islam; even other revealed religions (Buddhism, Hinduism and Zoroastrianism etc) come on to the same page.

hanks and regards

OOOOOOOOOO

Paarsurrey wrote:

The aesthetics as well as the meaning are important.
Whatever the language of a book (here Quran) the meaning of a word is best understood in the verse/sentence it is used, and the true meaning of a sentence is best understood in the passage (some preceding and some following sentences of the verse in focus ), a passage could be best understood in its chapter, and so on a chapter is best understood in the whole book or Quran. Then there is a context of a place (space) and time, there could be many correct translations to a word (or say a verse/sentence/passage/chapter) if the context is not against it (rather approves and supports it). If somebody assumes a wrong meaning, the context could out-rightly reject it. When one tries to understand the things deeply then one has to resort to etymology of the words and etymology of a word brings forth a new realm of meaning, its history, culture etc.
Quran is pragmatic, it addressed the pagan Meccans, then the people around Christians, Jews , Zoroastrians and others; then the whole world at that time, in the past and also in future.
So it is deeper and deeper and deeper; language is not as important as are the meanings, and meaning of life and humanity.
Regards

Quran is best understood “with reference to the context” tool

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/how-to-read-quran-the-amazing-revealed-recitation-for-correct-understanding.180477/#post-4462672

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend paul8bee

You may start reading Quran. It is not a voluminous book. It might be a little larger than the four gospels combined.

It provides guidance on temporal, moral and spiritual matters. Quran does not want that it should be believed only as a book of authority from an authority. It provides the wisdom to a thing and reason and logical arguments, in a way, that it is not a tedious book like the books of philosophy which are full with difficult terminology not understood by the common man. It mentions wisdom for the Philosophers, experts and the common people all at one time; as it is guidance for everybody.

Even of I don’t quote from the Quran, I write taking wisdom from it which convinces others, as first I am myself convinced with it. If I sometimes mention that I have taken this reasoning from Quran; it is for the reason that it would morally be bad for me if I take something from a sources yet without acknowledging it. Can we ignore the rights of an author? No we cannot.

I think I should give here an example.
As I understand from your blog, you have made a lot of research on spirits, and I appreciate that.

Quran mentions following points in this connection:

1. Everything in the Universe has been created by the Creator God Allah YHWH; if that is correct then logically the spirits which are in this Universe, are created by Him. This is exactly mentioned in Quran, as I understand from it. If you differ with it, no compulsion; then give your reasoning on this point.

2. Creator God, by definition is the one who has created everything, yet He has been created by none; that make Him self-existing. I think you also agree with it; no compulsion.

3. God is only eternal; so logically the spirits are his creation, so the spirits could not be eternal. You may give reasoning if you differ with this; however no compulsion.

4. When partners meet, husband and wife, the creation of a child starts, till it reaches a form fit to receive life. God commands the spirit or soul into the fetus, so it is logical to believe that the spirit or soul grows and or evolves within the fetus. Yet, I acknowledge that I have taken all these points from the Quran. Quran mentions claims and reason.

5. I would like to submit here and one must note it that it is only Quran from amongst the Revealed Word, which provides us the text for a claim and also a pertinent reason thereof within the usual context which often consist on five preceding and five following verses, in my opinion.

6. This make Quran a Book of Systems or a book with wonders, which is sufficient in itself to testify that Quran is not authored by a man, impossible to do by a man, but by the Creator God Allah YHWH himself has authored it.

There is however no compulsion to believe in Quran, blindly. But it will also not be fair if we see a truthful system in it, yet we deny it. It would be just killing the truth, in my opinion.

This is what we experience in our everyday life also. There is no compulsion to believe that this world is physically working under a set of systems, which are only discovered by the scientists yet not created by them. If there would have been no physical systems, rather haphazardness; this Universe won’t work and the Scientists won’t be able to propound theories and discover Laws and making any inventions. They only would find a system or knowledge if it already exists but inherent in the things.

If the Scientists would deny such systems, within and without us, that would tantamount denying the Science and Knowledge and Truth altogether; yet there is no compulsion but only an acknowledgement of the Truth.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Regards

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/quran-a-book-of-systems-which-is-sufficient-to-testify-that-quran-is-not-authored-by-a/

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/human-interpretation-can-twist-the-entire-message/

Human interpretation can twist the entire message

 

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NT Bible consist of glimpses of Word of G-d only

June 30, 2015

<www.religiousforums.com> Thread : A good heated discussion.

Please click the post # below to view,comment and join discussion on the topic.
Post #229

Paarsurrey wrote:

I agree with you. Jesus did not write NT Bible, he also did not dictate it to anybody, he also did not authorize anybody to write anything on his behalf.
Regards

Thuli likes this.

Gospel of Thomas : closer to the teachings of Christ than the NT

June 3, 2015

<www.religiousforums.com> <Thread : Gospel of Thomas>

Post #95 (Please click at the post #)

Paarsurrey wrote:

I agree with you.

Regards

The act of Abraham sacrificing his son Ishmael never happened in literal and real terms

May 11, 2014

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/christian-logic/comment-page-1/#comment-15325

PAARSURREY says:

May 11, 2014 at 7:40 pm
@MAKAGUTU says:May 11, 2014 at 7:02 pm
“Paarsurrey, in the bible, it is recorded that Abe was asked by god to sacrifice his son. By your comment can we say that this retelling of the narrative is not factual or what is your stand?” Unquote

Bible is neither authored by Abraham nor by Moses. Its different books have been authored by anonymous narrators and the scribes. It is not the original Word of God in the original language revealed.

Dreams and visions are always or most often interpret-able.

It only meant that Abraham and his offspring shall have to face hardships in the path of God (Allah Yahweh Tao) and would have to devout their lives; in service of the humanity for its ethical, moral and spiritual uplift.

Abraham and Ishmael were sure about it from their experience with the One-True-God; they knew that the He won’t let them accomplish an unreasonable act; and would bring out reasonable solution of the matter.

And the act of Abraham sacrificing his son Ishmael never happened in literal and real terms.

Abraham and his progeny did devote their lives to the cause of religion and that is how it took place in real terms; and that is what one should focus on.

The matter of as to how to interpret such dreams and visions was settled for all times.

Regards

Bible not inerrant : not authored by Jesus:

May 4, 2014

http://fidedubitandum.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/if-you-redefine-christianity-its-ridiculous/#comment-4162

paarsurrey
May 4th, 2014 at 9:16 am
@john zande : May 4th, 2014 at 6:44 am
“The bible claims inerrancy, it claims to be 100% true and believable,”

I don’t think Bible has anywhere claimed inerrancy, its claims to be 100% true that are applicable to the whole Bible except the last paragraph of “Revelation”:

Revelation 22:18-19
[18] For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book. [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73022.htm

NT Bible is a conglomerate of books; not written by a single author; hence, if at all, this should be applicable to this book Revelation only not to the whole Bible.

Regards

Atheism: leap in the dark

April 17, 2014

The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the discussion; and only then one should form one’s own sincere and independent opinion.

http://maasaiboys.wordpress.com/2014/04/14/an-address-to-friends/comment-page-1/#comment-13706

paarsurrey says:
April 17, 2014 at 20:05

@ makagutu with love
You were born as Christian and everybody around you was a Christian. Yet for some good or bad reasons you became disgruntled with Christianity, Bible and Church; not necessarily with Jesus or Moses.

I think it was a blind and or unreasonable decision; in other words it was not a scientific decision.*

“Whenever I read the bible, I find it full of absurdities that I can’t ignore.”

So:

1. You never finished reading Bible from cover to cover; hence your knowledge of what got revealed on Moses and Jesus remained, sorry to describe it, as shallow.
2. It did not occur to you that the denomination in which you were in; might be wrong; hence you should make a comparative study of the denominations of Christianity to find the truthful denomination from them.
3. You generalized the bitter experience you had of your specific denomination; to other denominations and in haste jumped out of it altogether.

I think yours was a leap in the dark.

Wasn’t it?

Regards

* Systematic approach to collecting facts and applying logical decision making techniques, instead of generalizing from experience, intuition (guessing), or trial and error.
Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/scientific-decision-making.html#ixzz2zA7jRXHz

Jesus is most important; Bible written in Jesus absence when Jesus had gone to India

April 8, 2014

The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the discussion; and only then one should form one’s own sincere and independent opinion.

http://jerichobrisance.com/2014/04/02/snapthought-wrested-from-my-hands-by-god/comment-page-1/#comment-6746

paarsurrey says:
April 8, 2014 at :

@unkleE says:April 7, 2014
“I said the important question was not inerrancy (of NT Bible), but what we know about Jesus, and what we can reasonably believe. This is not a trivial question and there are certainly problems to be solved.” Unquote

I think I agree with unkleE that Jesus is more important than Bible; as it was not written by Jesus.

Bible was written in Jesus’ absence when he traveled to India with his mother Mary.

He did not know what Paul and the Church were doing in his absence.

Hence Jesus is most important.

Regards

Archaeologists don’t have list of persons existed in the world since inception

April 6, 2014

The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the discussion; and only then one should form one’s own sincere and independent opinion.
http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/yahwehs-dreadful-power-problem-3/comment-page-1/#comment-13846

PAARSURREY says:
April 6, 2014 at 5:22 pm

@JOHN ZANDE says:April 5, 2014 at 5:55 pm

“You seemed to imply archaeology has supported the Qur’an, whereas it clearly demolishes all claims made in the Pentateuch. What are you talking about? What has it supported? Are you, or are you not conceding Abraham and Moses were not historical characters, as modern archaeology has concluded? Please name these archaeologists you’re talking about and cite what papers have been published on their findings.” Unquote

Archaeology excavates sites; cities and or places; in this case they excavated sites mentioned in the Bible (not mentioned in Quran); if they don’t find any such cities or places , then they imply from it that the persons mentioned in the Bible also might have not existed.

It is not that they excavated the sites to necessarily find names of Abraham or Moses written on a rock.

And definitely they don’t have a list of persons that existed in the world from the date of inception to verity from it names of Abraham or Moses.

I don’t know why you cannot get it.

Do you get it? Please

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/yahwehs-dreadful-power-problem-3/comment-page-1/#comment-13849

PAARSURREY says:
April 6, 2014 at 5:37 pm

@JOHN ZANDE says:April 4, 2014 at 5:11 pm
“I think you’re granting far too much leeway here to people’s beliefs. The simple fact is the Pentateuch is the only source for this god: the god of Abraham and Moses. Take the Pentateuch away and there is NO Abrahamic god. I’m not at all interested in peoples different (later) interpretations of what this god is. I dismiss it at the Pentateuch. Period.” Unquote

I think you have little information about Quran/Islam/Muhammad; we Muslim have nothing to do with “Pentateuch”.

Muhammad received Revelation directly from the One-True-God; our belief is not based on what you describe as “Pentateuch”.

I don’t know as to why you don’t get it? Please

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/yahwehs-dreadful-power-problem-3/comment-page-1/#comment-13854

PAARSURREY says:
April 6, 2014 at 10:23 pm

I think it is you who mentioned of some consensus of the archaeologists.
Didn’t you?

I always take Quran the only 100% accurate source of knowledge; none else.

Regards

Peripheral issues with Bible should be interpreted within the core teachings of Jesus

April 3, 2014

The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the post; and then they should from their own sincere and independent opinion.

http://jerichobrisance.com/2014/04/02/snapthought-wrested-from-my-hands-by-god/comment-page-1/#comment-6344

paarsurrey says:
April 3, 2014 at :

Hello everybody!

Most Issues with the Bible will get diluted; if instead of the peripheral issues one concentrates on the core teachings of Moses and Jesus:

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:36-40

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A36-40

All the peripheral issues should be interpreted within the scope of the above core teachings of Jesus or else rejected forthwith.

This is a way of reconciliation between the Atheists who were previously Christians; the crowbar need not be applied.

Does this help?

http://jerichobrisance.com/journey/comment-page-1/#comment-6347

paarsurrey says:
April 3, 2014 at :

@Jericho Brisance

“it is possible to bring down a structure by removing the right component, the right foundational brick. The brick in this case was removed”.

What was the foundational brick of Christianity in your case? Please

Regards

In search of truth

April 1, 2014

The viewers are advised to visit the link given below to know the context of discussion and then from their independent and sincere opinion.

http://anaivethinker.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/how-i-became-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-121

paarsurrey | April 1, 2014 at 2:53 pm

@ anaivethinker
“. . I would have to try to make evolution and religion work together. . .
. . .
. . .
Do you have a similar experience? Do you know someone with a similar experience? Feel free to comment or question about anything.” Unquote

The observation was correct that evolution/science work together; but the decision was incorrect to become Atheist/Agnostic/Skeptic.

If Bible/Christianity was wrong on occasions; it does not prove Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism automatically correct. Truth of Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism must be proved correct on its own merit.

Truth must be proved of every religions or non-religion on some common criteria.

So your search for truth is incomplete. You went from one extreme to another extreme.

Thanks and regards