The Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5516&start=100

HollowScar wrote:

Also, Islam is the fastest growing, but look at the population of Muslims in some countries which are overpopulated. Look at the fact that, leaving means death. Look at the fact that there are many Muslims who aren’t true to themselves, and may not even be considered a Muslim by Allah. Look at the fact that Christianity is the largest religion in the world.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend HollowScar

I just want to correct you on one thing; “Christianity” is a misnomer started by Paul and the Church, it has nothing to do with Jesus or Mary or their beliefs and teachings. It is conglomerate of many denominations/faiths/religions 32000+ of them clubbed together with hardly anything in common. Each one of them considers themselves as the only true Christians and the others as heretics. So the population they quote is to be divided by at least 32000 and the quotient should be compared to the Muslims. The Catholics don’t consider Protestants as Christians and the vice versa. If you need I can provide you the references or just visit Catholics forums and see what they believe about Protestants; you may also visit the Protestant forums and see for yourself what they think about the Catholics.

A majority of the Catholics and Protestants have become Atheists Agnostics; as they don’t believe that Jesus was a God; human conscience rejects divinity of Jesus. If you count the Church going Christians; you will find still much less active members of these religions.

The Catholics Protestants, if they sincerely believe in Jesus; they should reform and reject all worthless concepts of Paul, clever working of his cunning brain, carved out of thin air or the same are like a spider’s web; only then the Catholics Protestants can bring back or salvage their members who have silently got converted to Atheism Agnosticism.

As it is not secret; the Atheists Agnostics though they should have been a reasonable people; yet being un-natural concepts they are nothing more than a meme; their permanent abode is in doubt and they have no recourse except in derision and ridiculing others. I still hope they may reform, if they start respecting other human beings. I respect their faith or un-faith.

The Catholics Protestants should find the true teachings of Jesus, Moses and other Messengers Prophets of the Creator – God Allah YHWH and also righteous women like Mary and Moses’ mother and should follow their beliefs and their acts and deeds. Therein lies their salvation; not in the obsolete concept of Jesus dieing on the Cross; as Jesus did not die on the Cross, so the Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken and is futile as per his own words. Jesus made good his escape to India and died there peacefully and naturally at the age of about 120 years.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with its reasons

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4997&p=92217#p92217

Brendalee wrote:

paarsurrey: Kindly provide proof ..that “Jesus and Mary” did not believe in the trinity.

paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friend brendalee

You know it is written in your NTBible that Jesus came to fulfill Moses’ teachings; Jesus and Mary were Jews followers of Moses. Moses never believed in any Trinity; (So Jesus and Mary never had to believe in any Trinity).

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Brendalee wrote:

Well, firstly it is not MY “NTBible”, and secondly (and I know this will come as a great astonishment to you), I did not ask you what Moses believed, did I? Nope, I asked you to PROVE what you claim Jesus or Mary did or did not believe.

I love Isa and Mariam as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

paarsurrey says:

Hi friend brendalee

I don’t know as to why people here generally don’t want to disclose their identity or denomination/faith/religion; perhaps they don’t feel confident on the truth of their stand-point and they prefer to remain a rolling stone, without any identity. Or they might not be sure or confident to defend their denomination/faith/religion with reasonable, rational and logical arguments; well I don’t mind that. I can understand this state of affairs for the Atheists Agnostics as their belief is not natural and firm hence they need to conceal it; never mind.

I would love to prove from Quran being an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim as to the claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe and of their deeds and acts that they both performed.

Please start a separate thread titles “claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with its reasons “. Now it depends on you to start such a thread, as things here might get jumbled together.

I am waiting for such a thread in the Islam questioned and defended forum.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

No mention of Trinity in Torah

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4997&p=91965#p91965

Brendalee wrote:

So which do you think Christians should follow: The teachings of Jesus, or the opinions of his prone-to-error-like-all-humans FOLLOWER, Paul?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend brendalee

Those who love Jesus should follow the true teachings of Jesus; and to start with they should reject Trinity as Jesus and Mary never believed in it. Jesus and Mary were Jews and Jews don’t believe in Trinity; there is no mention of Trinity in Torah. Jesus and Mary never believed in “Christianity” invented by Paul.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus had no attributes of the Creator-God Allah YHWH

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4657&start=320

God is never tempted by evil as is very clearly mentioned in the NTBible.

James 1:13

11 For the sun rose with a burning heat, and parched the grass, and the flower thereof fell off, and the beauty of the shape thereof perished: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways. 12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been proved, he shall receive a crown of life, which God hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man, when he is tempted, say that he is tempted by God. For God is not a tempter of evils, and he tempteth no man. 14 But every man is tempted by his own concupiscence, being drawn away and allured. 15 Then when concupiscence hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin. But sin, when it is completed, begetteth death.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/66001.htm

Jesus was tempted by evil as mentioned in Matthew 4:1. So clearly Jesus could not have claimed to be god; he had no attributes of the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Paul founded the modern “Christianity and Church” with the sole purpose of character assassination of Jesus

Paul founded the modern “Christianity and Church” with the sole purpose of character assassination of Jesus

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4997&p=91948#p91948

Paul is NOT total Christianity

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Let the Catholics and Protestants say the above words (Paul is NOT total Christianity); why should an Atheist Agnostic plead their case? Let the Catholics Protestants stand on their own feet; and defend their own faith.

Present “Christianity” is founded by Paul; Paul’s absurdities have nothing to do with Jesus and Mary. “Christianity’ of Paul and the “Church” was invented at Rome only with the sole purpose of character assassination of Jesus in his absence; when he took refuge in India, with Mary his mother, from the atrocities of Jews.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus in the tomb: Catholics Protestants to count 3 days

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4725&p=91937#p91937

Nosubmission wrote:

More, Jesus said that the parallelism between Himself and Jonah was confined to the time of stay in a place: 3 days.

Paarsurrey says:

Now please enumerate period of 3 days, as you have mentioned. I am sure no Catholic or Protestant would ever be able to count these three days also.

Paarsurrey wrote after 3, 4 days, as no Catholic Protestant came forward to count the period of 3 days:

Hi friends

No Catholic or Protestant enumerates the period of 3 days; none a witness to it. This was not the essence of Sign of Jonah; the essence was not to die. Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; so must Jesus not die in the incident of putting him on the Cross. It is easy; the Catholics and Protestant should understand and come out of the hotch potch of Paul and the Church. Why make your religion/faith an absurdity before Atheists Agnostics for nothing?

Jesus was a wise Prophet of the Creator-God Allah YHWH; he and his mother never believed in such absurdities.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The concept of Trinity is alien to Jesus and Mary

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=91931#p91931

Wootah wrote:

I believe (Trinity) God is Good and Just

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend wootah

First of all the Catholics Protestants should present the claim of the Trinity as also the essence of its reason from the Gospels; why should you try to put words into the mouth of Trinity, your assumed god, which it individually and collectively failed to mention in your book or to provide reason for it, to start with?

I don’t think your Trinity-god has anything to do with justice when it attempted to kill its own son for the sins of others; it is a cruel Trinity-god. Would you following your Trinity-god kill you own son or daughter for the sins of a passerby in the street? It is a cruel act, so you should rather leave the Trinity-god; than doing this inhuman act.

Trinity is neither Good nor Just; it is cruel and irrational.

The concept of Trinity is alien to Jesus and Mary; they never believed in it.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The best references in the Quran

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4277&start=40

morda8 wrote:

I am at the moment trying to shed some light on the Quran to a Muslim friend of mine would anyone please give me the best Surahs and verses to refer to?

This person knows Arabic and has a Quran at home.

Thanks

Paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friend morda8

I mention here two short Surahs for you:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 1: Al-Fatihah

[1:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
[1:3] The Gracious, the Merciful,
[1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1:5] Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6] Guide us in the right path —
[1:7] The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=1

The Holy Quran : Chapter 112: Al-Ikhlas

[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say, ‘He is Allah, the One;
[112:3] ‘Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] ‘He begets not, nor is He begotten;
[112:5] ‘And there is none like unto Him.’

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=112

These are ones of the most read Surahs of Quran.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

NTBible (or Gospels) is neither Word of God nor Word of Jesus

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=91759#p91759

Wootah wrote:

Reason isn’t native to you; is it?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Reason is very natural with me; of course, as our Quran is Word from the Creator- God Allah YHWH, has claims and reason on every topic relating to ethical, moral and spiritual guidance of human beings in it.

The NTBible is neither Word of the Creator -God Allah YHWH, nor of Jesus, so it is naturally bereft of claims and the reasons. The Claims and reason have to be imported invariably from out of the Gospels or just from the imagination. They loan it from the cunning Paul or the clever Church.

This proves that NTBible is not Word of God.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus never attempted a suicidal death on Cross

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=91723#p91723

Wootah says:

Show me how you can pay off a debt of $100 with $1 and I’ll believe you.

Paarsurrey says:

How is this question related to divinity of Jesus or the trinity? Please elaborate.

Wootah says:

OK. I didn’t expect that response!
The whole thing about the Trinity is that no Christian wants to believe in the Trinity. No Christian said and decided God was one being with three personalities. No Christian would willing do this, why would we want to? Why would we want to willingly add to a concept of one God? It is close to saying there are 3 Gods, we can see that. Can you see that no Christian willingly accepts the Trinity at first glance or willingly wants to add 3 personalities to the nature of God? (You are probably amazed at this response so far.)

If you can comprehend that Christians do not arrive at the Trinity willingly then why do we believe in the Trinity?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

I am shocked to note that the Catholics Protestants have been forced to accept Trinity by someone as you have stated and they are naturally not inclined and they must not accept Trinity. If they believe in one Creator – God Allah YHWH, they must not be forced to accept this superfluous creed invented by the cunning Paul or the clever Church. There is no compulsion in religion and it must not be forced on anyone against one’s free will.

I know that it was cunning Paul and the clever Church who first invented the creed that Jesus willingly accepted flogging, spitting by Jews on him and putting him on the cross; this makes Jesus doing suicide.

So my friend you don’t have to believe in this suicidal attempt of Jesus; as this was never the case. It were the Jews who forcibly put Jesus on the cross; but the loving Creator – God Allah YHWH, does not forsake his beloved ones, so against all odds He saved Jesus a cursed death on Cross.

After being delivered in near-dead position from the Cross Jesus was hurriedly taken to a tomb by his friends with underhand help of Pilate. There he was treated and when healed from the injuries on the cross he made good his escape to India along-with his mother Mary.
My friend neither Jesus nor any Catholic Protestant ever took loan of 100$; it is just one of the myriad imaginations of cunning Paul and the clever Church; please get out of this loan scenario; you don’t have to pay any loan. Just make good deeds and have good beliefs; and you will have your salvation.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks