One could believe in on witnessing of others

I commented on the blog < http://independentsguide.wordpress.com/2013/07/16/its-not-only-2/> and then a discussion ensued; the same is given here-under for the viewers of this blog.

 

1. 

   paarsurrey

     /  July 16, 2013

   @ Argus

   Quote from your post
   If you had to write; would’t it had been better if you have visited it?

   Thanks

   Argus Says:
   July 16, 2013 at 10:43 pm | 
   

   I’m an older guy in New Zealand carefully balancing a budget—budget doesn’t allow for popping over to all (or any) of the things that most intrigue me. So I have to rely on other folks …

   Sadly many folks are either easily deluded (stage magicians, priests, and politicians make a good living from it) or look at different aspects of whatever’s there than I would. Some are out to impress; many just gush. So I sift the sand an hope to find a gem or two.

   • paarsurrey Says:
     July 17, 2013 at 4:35 pm | 
     

     So one could benefit from the witnessing of other persons who have seen or observed another phenomenon or experience themselves till such times that one has is able to experience/witness them oneself.

     If we carry this reasoning forward; the messengers prophets have seen/witnessed the one true God themselves; one should benefit from their experience.

     Don’t you agree with it?

     Thanks for visiting my blog and sharing your thoughts.

     New Zealand is a good country.

2. • 

     Argus

       /  July 19, 2013

     I don’t believe in angels (have never met one) any more than I believe in gnomes, imps, elves, and goblins (never met one of those either). I also cannot believe in the Abrahamic God any more than in Odin, Vishnu, Aphrodite, Isis (insert name of own choice here, and there’s millions of them).

     By the same token I’ve never floated in space or set foot on the moon; yet somehow I’m hard-wired to give more credibility to the eyewitness reports of those guys than ‘angels’.

     My own sister is a spiritualist medium who talks routinely to dead guys. Sadly the dead guys all seem to say the same stuff, and when I asked her for the coded message agreed between our Father and I before he passed away; no joy. She tried, a few wild stabs and educated guess, but ol’ Dad was a bit remiss with the codes (I guess crossing over must’ve wiped his memory a bit.) To each his own …

     • 

       paarsurrey

         /  July 20, 2013

       If you don’t believe in angles; you miss one pillar of the true faith.

       • 

         Argus

           /  July 20, 2013

         I miss most of the pillars—

         I do believe that people should be nice to each other, and get along like rational reasoning (dare I say ‘compassionate’?) beings.

         Instead we have vicious slaughter, stonings, burnings at the stake, crusades, torture, beheadings, napalm, holy war etc etc all in the name of the One True God (insert deity of own choice here) (there’s lots of them). Not good.

         • 

           paarsurrey

             /  July 20, 2013

           The Humanists must have to be nice with others; otherwise they shall have to morally change their name from the Humanist as they had previously changed from Atheist, a meaningless name, in my opinion.

           You have however been nice to me; a man committed to reason must be.

           Anyway I will call them with the name they like for themselves.

           Pillars are important for a building, you know.

           • 

             Argus

               /  July 20, 2013

             A building is no good without a reliable foundation (even the Bible says as much); and yes, as an atheist I am allowed to quote from it … peace …

             • 

               paarsurrey

                 /  July 21, 2013

               You mean from Word of Revelation from Jesus?

3. 

   paarsurrey

     /  July 21, 2013

   Our friend Argus never visited the pyramids in Egypt; but preferred to comment on their construction; merits and demerits. The same way he could believe in the one true God on the witnessing of messengers and the prophets. If not, why not?

A question for theists

Paarsurrey says:
Referring to your question in the post; “are there any credible (confirmed) criteria for differentiating one’s religion as “true” and another’s as “false”?”

Yes; there are five basic criteria:
1. Belief in the one true God.
2. Belief in the angels.
3. Belief in the revealed books.
4. Belief in the messengers prophets.
5. Belief in the Day of Judgement.

Every religion has these five beliefs to qualify for being called a revealed religion. All revealed religions are truthful in their origin and have these basic beliefs; differences occurred naturally as there is no compulsion in any revealed religion so when they deviated from the right truthful path they lost or got any one or more of them obscured; so the message from the one true God got revealed again.

Thanks

Peel away the colourful ritualistic outer layers, bypass the guidebooks, skip over the oral traditions and dive through the charismatic mind-sets to the core within and anyone curious enough to look will find that there are but two ostensible, universal truths pervading all religions:

1) They all claim to be true

2) Not one has ever emerged twice on the planet

That’s it. There is nothing lurking any deeper than these two truisms, and as the second maxim annihilates the first claim there’s really no need to even litigate the petitions forwarded by any single religion as it’s already perfectly clear that any allusion to authenticity is entirely groundless. If this were not the case, if any single religion were indeed true, we would have seen that religion emerge unsupervised at least twice on the planet. Its truth would in fact be demonstrable in this supernatural event. Such an event…

View original post 432 more words

The Bible scribes did character assassination of the messenger prophets to attract more people

All messengers prophets of the one true God were perfect men; it is the scribes who did character assassination of them and made them like that they were sinful.

Being a perfect man or an innocent man is a pre-requisite of messenger prophet of the one true creator God.

The selection of the one true God or His choosing from among the human beings is never wrong.

In the olden times the narrators would verbally or out of their memory narrate the stories of the religious heroes of their people; to allure more people to their gatherings; they put some drama and scandals or cheap narratives in them to make them more interesting; later when the things were committed to writing these stories got added up.

A little thinking; when one’s read the Bible one discerns it.

God sends a religion in one location and others have to accept it

Islam respects other revealed religions; but since the scriptures of other religions are not in the original form they were revealed on their messengers; so they need a fresh scripture (Revelation) that could rectify their mistakes; in whatever language it is revealed; in this sense Quran secures all revealed scriptures of the word whatever the religion and in whatever the locations they are.

There is no punishment to other nations if they did not receive the message of Quran; if it reaches them anyhow, which is in fact the message refreshed; and instead of accepting it they oppose it with enmity; then it is their fault because they deny the original message revealed on their own messenger originally.

Humans cannot punish anybody simply for not believing ; that will be decided by Allah in the hereafter with justice; He is the Master of the Day of Judgment.

Revelation proves the existence of God

It is through the Word of Revelation on the perfect persons called messengers or prophets in all parts and in all ages of the world that the existence of one true God is proved.

Big-foot, Unicorns etc.; cannot be proved by the scientific method valid for tangible and measurable things; nor these could be proved by Word of Revelation from the one true creator God; hence these are mythical imagination only; these have no reality; neither tangible reality nor intangible reality.

Word of Revelation that descended on Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad proves the existence of the one true Creator God.

Am I right?

faith is neither a leap in the dark nor a blind-faith

“Substance and Strong Dreams…”
http://pmespeak.com/2010/01/29/substance-and-poweful-dreams/

Pmespeak wrote:

Faith is a substance of hopeful Prayer and powerful Dreams. Faith is not a blind leap into the dark; believing in something just for the sake of believing; or for the sake of being positively hopeful.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friend pmespeak

I agree with you. Productive faith is neither a leap in the dark nor a blind-faith. It is the consistent and steadfast path/way of the Prophets Messengers of the Creator- God Allah YHWH who were rewarded by Him by His Word of Revelation. In fact these righteous persons were the cream of humanity whose constant search for truth and prayers did bore fruits. The future of humanity and peace indeed rests on following these persons with confidence. Such persons came in all the nations and the regions of the world. We see that if Judea and Arabian Peninsula were enlightened with the revelation of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad; the Persia was illuminated by Zoroaster and the Cyrus the Great; China was guided by Buddha, Confucius and India by Krishna and now lately by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908- the Promised Messiah, the Second Coming of Jesus and the Imam Mahdi.

We should be guided by all these truthful persons.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5516&start=100

HollowScar wrote:

Also, Islam is the fastest growing, but look at the population of Muslims in some countries which are overpopulated. Look at the fact that, leaving means death. Look at the fact that there are many Muslims who aren’t true to themselves, and may not even be considered a Muslim by Allah. Look at the fact that Christianity is the largest religion in the world.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend HollowScar

I just want to correct you on one thing; “Christianity” is a misnomer started by Paul and the Church, it has nothing to do with Jesus or Mary or their beliefs and teachings. It is conglomerate of many denominations/faiths/religions 32000+ of them clubbed together with hardly anything in common. Each one of them considers themselves as the only true Christians and the others as heretics. So the population they quote is to be divided by at least 32000 and the quotient should be compared to the Muslims. The Catholics don’t consider Protestants as Christians and the vice versa. If you need I can provide you the references or just visit Catholics forums and see what they believe about Protestants; you may also visit the Protestant forums and see for yourself what they think about the Catholics.

A majority of the Catholics and Protestants have become Atheists Agnostics; as they don’t believe that Jesus was a God; human conscience rejects divinity of Jesus. If you count the Church going Christians; you will find still much less active members of these religions.

The Catholics Protestants, if they sincerely believe in Jesus; they should reform and reject all worthless concepts of Paul, clever working of his cunning brain, carved out of thin air or the same are like a spider’s web; only then the Catholics Protestants can bring back or salvage their members who have silently got converted to Atheism Agnosticism.

As it is not secret; the Atheists Agnostics though they should have been a reasonable people; yet being un-natural concepts they are nothing more than a meme; their permanent abode is in doubt and they have no recourse except in derision and ridiculing others. I still hope they may reform, if they start respecting other human beings. I respect their faith or un-faith.

The Catholics Protestants should find the true teachings of Jesus, Moses and other Messengers Prophets of the Creator – God Allah YHWH and also righteous women like Mary and Moses’ mother and should follow their beliefs and their acts and deeds. Therein lies their salvation; not in the obsolete concept of Jesus dieing on the Cross; as Jesus did not die on the Cross, so the Cross of the imagination of Paul stands broken and is futile as per his own words. Jesus made good his escape to India and died there peacefully and naturally at the age of about 120 years.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus had no claim on divinity

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=91500#p91500

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Jesus never claimed to be a god in the literal sense of the word; it is but a wishful thinking of the Catholics Protestants that they make a god out of him for nothing, just for their own selfish and easy salvation.

If Jesus sometimes used the terms god or son of god for his person he did it in the same meaning other righteous persons of Jews i.e. the Messengers Prophets had used these terms for them; no different.

John 10:34-36

31 The Jews then took up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father; for which of these works do you stone me? 33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, maketh thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law: I said you are gods? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God was spoken, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God?

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/50010.htm

This clearly showed that what he meant was only a parable or a metaphoric language; claiming to be Messenger Prophet, a righteous person. He elaborated that they were wrongly accusing him when those Jews on whom Word of God descended OT Bible terms them God; he was one like them only, so he should not be blamed or stoned..

The Catholics Protestants should come out of the trick of the cunning Paul and the Church and accept Jesus as one of the perfect men called Messengers Prophets of the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The world has become like a close-net village

The world has become like a close-net village
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4253&p=82713#p82713

Hello Paar, I understand your love of Jesus, Mary and Moses. However, about Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster and Cyrus, are you sure you are not violating the Quranic injunction?

Buddha particularly was an agnostic or a Deist who never really discussed about divinity and supernatural in his teaching. Maybe your answer will be that these people were originally prophets but their teachings interpolated over time period. Right?

How about Confucius? Do you love him too?

Humanity is but one family.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friends.

Since Quran is a Word of Revelation from the All-Wise, the Creator- God Allah YHWH; He sent Messenger Prophets to all the lands of the world to guide the humanity to His path. Now that the world has become like a close-net village; all these Messengers Prophets have been honored by Muhammad. The truthful Revelations, deeds/acts of all these Messengers Prophets have been secured in Quran; and their role has been set by God to introduce their nations and lead them to Muhammad – the Seal of Messengers Prophets; Muhammad authenticates their truthfulness, under lasting principles mentioned in Quran.

I love Jesus, Mary, Moses, Moses’ mother, Krishna, Buddha, Lao Tse , Confucius, Socrates, Zoroaster, Cyrus etc great leaders of the world in Ethics, Morals and Spirituality; I love them all; this is the teaching of Quran/Islam/Muhammad as explained by the Promised Messiah 1835-1908. I think it has got a lot of common sense and wisdom; my Atheist and Agnostic friends would admit.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Ali Sina quotes Quran out of context

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3552&p=81031#p81031

Ali Sina wrote:

A Reply from Ali Sina

Hello ….,
Truth cannot be found. Albert Einstein, yes that Jew whom Muhammad called monkey and pig said: “Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.” There is a world of wisdom in these words. You can never find the truth. All you can do is expose the lies and get closer to the truth. In my writings I am not teaching the ultimate truth. I am exposing the lies of Muhammad and Islam.

Ali

Paarsurrey says:

Hi Ali Sina

Quran says only about the hardened priestly Jews of the time of Jesus that they were only following the Law of Moses, in apparent and outward manner, not in the spirit of it. They were monkeys or imitators of teachings of Moses and pigs or dirty as they tried to kill the Messengers Prophets of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; though they could not kill them as they tried to kill Jesus a cursed death on the Cross; but God saved his life and Jesus migrated to India,

Jesus condemned the priestly Jews for this behavior and called them hypocrites , serpents ,and vipers and what not please refer to Matthew 23:1-39

So, calling the priestly class i.e. the scribes and the Pharisees of the time of Jesus who tried to kill Jesus but did not succeed, in symbolic terms, as monkeys and pigs is in line with Jesus who told them that they were serpents, generation of vipers likewise was correct.

I quoted in the previous post from Jesus from the Bible and now I quote here from Quran to prove my point.

[2:63] Surely, the Believers, and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians — whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds — shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.
[2:64] And remember the time when We took a covenant from you and raised high above you the Mount, saying: ‘Hold fast that which We have given you and bear in mind what is therein, that you may be saved.’
[2:65] Then you turned back thereafter; and had it not been for Allah’s grace towards you and His mercy, you would surely have been of the losers.
[2:66] And surely, you have known the end of those amongst you, who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. So We said to them: ‘Be ye apes, despised.’
[2:67] Thus We made it an example to those of its time and to those who came after it, and a lesson to those who fear God.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … 2&verse=62

It could be observed that here the real monkeys are not referred to but the priestly scholar class who are told to revert to the previous stage in evolution. The human beings as stated in the evolution were monkeys. Here it is certainly meant the priestly class. In the same way Muhammad called the bad traditional scholars/mullahs in the end of the days or of today as monkeys and pigs.

This is not relevant to the ordinary Jews of our time.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim