Kxxxx said: ↑
There was actually only the TaNaKh in those days. That is were they got their grace-filled messages from.
Paarsurrey wrote:
If Jesus, James the brother of Jesus and Thomas as well as other followers of Jesus read Torah only, why the Hellenist-Pauline Christians read from the NT that has neither spoken by Jesus nor authored by Jesus nor written by Jesus, please? Right?
Regards
Post #17 @
jxxxx wrote, ” the first gospel was written 40 years later and in a language none of Jesus followers spoke. “
” historians believe Jesus was a man who was later mythicized into a demigod “
” But Mark has been demonstrated in several papers to have taken Pauls authentic letters and crafted Earthly narratives “
” Mark was taking phrases Paul said, like when Jesus mentioned a message to future Christians, “tell them, this is my body and blood…” and so on. Mark took that and made it into a story about a supper and a crowd of people being present. The breaking bread metaphor became actually breaking bread. There are dozens of examples of Mark using Paul and creating events.
As well as how he created the empty tomb story and what he likely sourced. “
#360 <<<<paarsurrey wrote: (please click the post number to join the discussion)
Very good points about the 4-Gospels by friend @xxx . Kindly provide the references from the sources, please. Right?
Regards
Why Did Mark Invent an Empty Tomb? • Richard Carrier
Gospels-“do not go back to the respective authors”
None, emphasis none, of the Gospel writers was the eye-witness of Jesus’ Crucifixion.
Thread open to everybody including those who claim they have no religion, please
Regards
_____________
“The first four historical books of the New Testament are supplied with titles ( Euaggelion kata Matthaion, Euaggelion kata Markon , etc.), which, however ancient, do not go back to the respective authors of those sacred writings. ”
Gospel and Gospels – Encyclopedia Volume – Catholic Encyclopedia – Catholic Online
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/was-jesus-crucified-or-not.217361/page-11#post-6088520
~all the quotes attributed to Jesus in the New Testament cannot be trusted to have actually been said by Jesus.
~It is true that the entire Gospels are openly confessed to be hearsay.
~It is also true that Gospels are filled with contradictions too.
~This is also true and no doubt in it that people can find contradictory verses in the NT.
Thread: “Bible verses Pope. Who is wrong? ”
Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma
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Paarsurrey wrote: I agree with one that: ~all the quotes attributed to Jesus in the New Testament cannot be trusted to have actually been said by Jesus. This is because Pauline-Christianity got hold of anonymous narrations and doctored them cunningly to trick the followers of Jesus to the hold of Pauline-Christianity, nevertheless, one could find the clues and signs to separate truth from the fiction. Right, please? Regards |
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<www.religiousforums.com><Thread : Did Jesus have Scribes, ie are the Gospels actual witness accounts?>
No problem with your delay of response! I’m trying to figure out another way of approaching your belief of Paul and Jesus, and I was wondering if you believe that Jesus as portrayed in the four “canonical” Gospels is accurate and authentic?
No hurry – there is no compulsion (I like your saying!)
paarsurrey Says:
Being Canonical adds no authenticity to it, in my opinion; first it should be a quote from Jesus and then it should not be contradicting with other narratives about Jesus and quotes from Jesus irrespective of their being canonical or otherwise; thirdly it should not contradict with the OT Bible as Jesus being a Jew believed the truth in it; though in a diluted form.
As you know even the four Gospels, said to be canonical; were authored by anonymous persons; they were given names just to add some credulity to them; and they were compiled at a time when Jesus had traveled to India. In any case Jesus never owned them.
Thanks however for your comments.
Hank Kimball says:
(While commenting on one of my posts <https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2013/05/04/i-have-studied-bible-both-ot-and-nt-from-cover-to-cover/#comment-2798>.)
“If the bible is the word of God, it is unrighteous and dishonest to use any other book to interpret it.”
Paarsurrey says:
It should be a very big “if”.
Bible is a mess; finding Word of God in it is akin to finding jewels in the rubble; though not impossible.
NT Bible is errant; written by errant scribes. It is neither authored by the one true Creator God whom Jesus used to call God-the-Father nor by Jesus himself. It is not even dictated by Jesus; not even written by men authorized in writing by Jesus to write it on his behalf.
Gospels are not work of inspiration either; angels cannot inspire such incorrect information as we find many contradictory accounts of Jesus’ life in the Bible.
It is wrong to say that it was written by person who got inspired by the holy spirit. The holy spirit does not inspire to errant and sinful persons. The contradictions show, if at all, it is the evil spirit in them which inspired them.
Gospels did not record event of crucifixion and resurrection by the eye-witnesses; it is written that they all deserted Jesus and fled away.
Jesus did not belong to the physical lineage of King David as written by errant Matthew and errant Luke.
Bible presents Jesus as god; on what basis?
If it is on the basis of Paul or Gospels; that makes it a circular argument and Christianity reduces to a misnomer; it should be named after Paul.
The reasons or arguments should be from elsewhere; from a book or Gospel written by Jesus himself or dictated by Jesus, if it is to be truly called Christianity.
Jesus never, ever, appointed any attorney to write for him. So what the sinful disciples wrote, it had got nothing to do with Jesus or his teachings.
When Paul doctored the anonymous writing called gospels and named them after Jesus’ disciples to give some credulity to them; Jesus was at that time very much alive and was travelling towards India and the neighbouring countries; unaware of the misdeeds of Paul and the scribes in his absence.
Since we believe in Jesus and love him and his mother; we are willing to accept, whatever God Allah YHWH revealed Word from his mouth on the heart of Jesus; provided Jesus had himself written it, Jesus had dictated it verbatim in the original language revealed in.
Even if no Word was revealed on Jesus which he should have preserved for the Christian friends; but Jesus himself said something and wrote it himself or dictated it himself or authenticated it or authorized somebody before the event of Crucifixion to write for him; though that would be only at a Secondary Level, yet for our Christian friends we could consider that.
Has any Christian got anything like that? If so it is welcome to an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.
Other Christians are also welcome to join this discussion in search and understanding of Truth.
I believe that Jesus was a truthful person and existed historically only because his and his mother Mary’s accounts have been mentioned in Quran. Except for the Muslims, you know that no other religion believes that Jesus and Mary even existed in this world; I think one should appreciate it.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
wudjab Says:
April 7, 2010 at 9:15 pm
Is this the same quran that real muslims (Shia, Sunni, etc) believe in or is this the magical Ahmediya version ?
Paarsurrey says:
April 8, 2010 at 11:08 am
Hi friend wudjab
Quran, the first and the foremost source of guidance of Islam is the same whatever the denomination; and it has not changed from the time it was revealed. It is the pristine Word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH. It has got all the lasting and truthful teachings of all the religions of the world; including OTBible or Torah and the NTBible.
There are many contradictions and ambiguities in the Bible and their followers are perplexed to note them, as you must have observed. If they have claims for the issues, they don’t have reasons for them in their books and if they have reason, which is very seldom; they don’t have the claims for that in their books.
To resolve such contradictions their followers have to add something from their own selves which mean they add wisdom to their Books which was not there to start with.
All such contradictions and ambiguities are resolved by Quran.
The text of the Quran is the same for Shias, Sunnis and Ahmadis. Ahmadis neither believe in any magic nor do we have any magical version of the Quran.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslims
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5516&p=92927#p92927
A Christian wrote:
The problem we Christians have is when the Bible is not taken as a whole.
Paarsurrey says:
Hi friends
The Bible cannot and should not be taken as a whole, as it was never a complete “whole”. It is not a book written by one author or at one time. It is a collection of heterogeneous books having nothing in common, not selected by Jesus; but selected haphazardly by people who were not authorized by Jesus to do this work. For instance four Gospels were selected from 56 books; the selectors never mentioned as to why they selected four and rejected the rest of them. It is erring men selecting unauthorized from Jesus.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
Thanks
paarsurrey 
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