What is the latest research about Desatir?
(One could view and access it @ http://www.rahamasha.net/uploads/2/3/2/8/2328777/dasatir.pdf)
Topic open for the Theists and Atheists alike.
Posts Tagged ‘Zoroaster’
<http://www.religiousforums.com/> Thread :Religion of Zoroaster: Desatir.
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Please view my post and comment on it.
Quote “After this, the Persian Empire saw the rise and fall of the Sassanian dynasty in 224 BC, but was overthrown by the Arabs. The Empire was quickly Islamicized under the Umayyad Caliphate. Zoroastrians came under some serious social pressures to convert to Islam. It was at this time that Zoroastrians decided to look for another safe haven and resulted in a large-scale migration.”Unquote.
Zoroaster was a truthful prophet/messenger of Ahura-Mazda (G-d), did he prophecy of such a fate to the Zoroastrians and subsequent migration?
Please click the above link to know the context of discussion and join the discussion.
Originally Posted by Vinayaka
“paarsurrey, I feel you will continue to project your idea about what a prophet is onto Hinduism, even if 100 Hindus came here and told you Hinduism doesn’t have prophets. So you will always have your ‘truth’ and we will always have ours.
This is the result of subconscious mind (memory mind) conditioning, and quite understandable. You’ve read or been told over and over that all religions have prophets, so have come to believe it.” Unquote
This sub-forum is not DIR; when somebody writes here, it implies that one wants an open discussion.
There are Hindu denominations who think that Krishna definitely made a prophecy for the latter days; and I quoted it from a Hindu site.
If some or many or all Hindus consider Krishna a god; not withstanding that approach, he made a prophecy for future that stands fulfilled now; so in this sense he is a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.
This prophecy has many parallels.
Likewise Jesus made a prophecy for the latter days; his Second Coming in the End of times; and everybody here knows that Christians consider Jesus a god, not withstanding that approach, he made a prophecy that stands fulfilled now, so in this sense Jesus is a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.
Likewise Buddha; though not all Buddhists worship him as god. I consider Buddha also a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.
Likewise Zoroaster; but his followers definitely don’t worship him and are monotheists and I have read many of their scriptures, very beautiful scriptures. So I have no reason not to believe in his being a truthful prophet and no reason not to believe in his truthfulness.
Likewise Moses; though the Judaism people don’t consider him god; but definitely in “image of G-d”. And Judaism people also wait for a Moshiach.I consider Moses also a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.
Likewise… and likewise and likewise…
Where do I err please?
Since some other non-Hindus; probably or most probably Christians also written here.
Should the globe be divided into many parts; one created and ruled by Krishna and another created and ruled by Jesus. Should we reasonably and rationally divide the humanity in pieces and the infinite pieces as there are said to be 32000+ denominations of Christianity and innumerable (exact figure not known, please tell me exactly) denominations of Hinduism and other religions .
While apparently there is no difference between a human in the East or human in the West and North and South.
My questions are addressed to everybody and open for response to everybody.
To make it clear; I am and Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
paarsurrey on May 21, 2014 at 4:03 pm said:
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.
AtheistEnglishmanon May 21, 2014 at 4:32 pm said:
Why do you feel the need to insert ‘peaceful’ in the description?
paarsurrey on May 21, 2014 at 7:49 pm said:
We Ahmadiyya peaceful Muslims have the diversity the world needs.
We do not eliminate or exterminate or abhor any human beings. We do not say that Jesus’ or Krishna’s or Buddha’s or Zoroaster’s or Moses’ ways were wrong. We respect them all and say that the above persons were truthful persons and they must have received messages from Allah. But their people did not and could not secure the Message which was the same for every race and region.
The obscure Word with them could be rejuvenated and reconstructed to the original Message but with a lot of effort, as the Renovators would do to an ancient building or monument.
While the same Creator rules the Universe now that ruled in the ancient times; He has mercifully re-sent the Message through Muhammad, respecting the ancient scriptures but encompassing the same in Quran in a compact manner. So the reality and diversity are not compromised but maintained in a graceful way- which is the need of the hour.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 as a truthful Successor of Muhammad is doing this work with peaceful discussion and dialogue.
The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the post; and then they should form their own sincere and independent opinion.
April 4, 2014 at 4:13 pm
@JOHN ZANDE says:April 3, 2014 at 10:58 pm
“Why’s that, Paar? Isn’t the god of the Qur’an (which is the god of the Pentateuch) omnipotent?”
No that is not the perspective of Islam/Quran/Muhammad.
One reason of the revelation of Quran was that the Torah was got corrupted by the Jewish clergy. This is clearly mentioned in Quran. Hence new revelation was needed for guidance.
The other reason was that the Torah at the times of Muhammad did not contain the reason part. Quran provides the reason-content under an elaborate system. It is not commandments only; it is commandment with the wisdom.
We, Muslims are in fact happy that the archaeologists have now proved the points that Quran had mentioned about the Torah.
There is an elaborate system of explanations of the attributes of the One-True-God.
One would observe that invariably Quran provides an attributes of God at the end of a verse; the event hints at the attribute under which action of God took place.
In this meaning the whole Quran explains all attributes of God and as to how these attributes work without contradiction with other attributes; and which attributes overtakes the others.
We can say that God of Moses,Buddha,Krishna, Zoroaster, Socrates, Jesus and Muhammad is the same God in attributes.
Thanks and regards
April 4, 2014 at 4:31 pm
I think I mentioned these things; but perhaps you did not get it.
Should I quote as to what I wrote about it.
I mentioned that all the archaeological excavations have been done with reference to the cities and places mentioned in the Bible; not with reference to Quran.
There is not a single site that has been excavated with reference to Quran.
Every branch of knowledge has its limitations; archaeology is also not 100% correct.
MAR 24, 2014 @ 14:37:36
I think science and religion work in different realm; so there is no contradiction in science and religion if correctly interpreted.
No founder of a revealed religion like Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Socrates, Jesus and Muhammad ever opposed science or scientific endeavors.
Religious people have served science very much; this fact cannot be denied.
Religion is a path that leads to God; this path is not physical or material; so science has nothing to do with it.
I think everybody reasonable must have to agree with it.
Thanks and regards
March 21, 2014 at 9:59 pm
@JOHN ZANDE says:March 21, 2014 at 8:46 pm
“Clearly there must be some sanction somewhere, else Islam wouldn’t have such a vibrant history of slavery. Christianity, of course, is no better. One’s as archaic as the other.”
It is the rulers that do such things; they do things in the name of religion; and exploit people under cover.
Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus, Socrates, Muhammad (and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the rightful successor of Muhammad in our present era) gave no teachings to make others a slave. There is no such teaching in Quran; I am absolutely certain about it.
Other founders of religions- the Messengers Prophets of the One-True-God whose names I have given above- their followers are exhorted to defend them in this connection in the first place.
If they fail to defend them; then I will defend them also after purification of their scriptures as per principles outlined in Quran.
Please get help from other Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics/Humanists who have read Quran themselves; to kindly quote just a single verse, repeat a single verse, from Quran in this connection. Please don’t give a list; if one has a list then select ONE verse that justify your viewpoint the most, for discussion here.
One could contact the person who wrote the article on the subject from the link provided by one and get help from him, if he can help.
Thanks and regards
March 22, 2014 at 4:59 pm
@BOBBIERILEYJR says:March 22, 2014 at 12:12 am
“Most telling is that slavery is still practiced in the Sudan, Niger, Mauritania and a few other corners of the Muslim world.” Unquote
It has got nothing to do with Quran/Islam/Muhammad. There is no commandment or teaching in Quran to make one a slave.
I think it will be clear to one if one listens the following Friday Sermon from Mirza Masroor Ahmad- the Head of the World-Wide Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
He is the fifth rightful Successor to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) – The Promised Messiah – The Second Coming:
The original Sermon was delivered in Urdu; its translations are available in following languages:
Urdu, English, Albanian, Arabic, Bengali, Bosnian, Bulgarian, French, German, Indonesian, Malayalam, Russian, Spanish, Swahili, Tamil, Turkish
Please click the language of your choice by accessing the following link:
March 23, 2014 at 9:19 pm
@BOBBIERILEYJR says: March 22, 2014 at 8:01 pm
“A fatwa” Unqoute
A fatwa means an opinion. Opinions could differ; it could be and is an unsubstantiated opinion and not supported by the context verses of Quran or other verses of Quran.
A fatwa is not a verse of Quran; and is not binding on others.
If a sinful Mullah believes wrongly for his vested interest; he is responsible for it not Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
You have referred to Chapter 23; please read the following four pages in its verse 23:7 for its explanation:
It will make things clear for you.
I wrote following comments: blog “Enquiries on Atheism” : topic “Religion and the former intellectual capital of the world”; link below:
February 24, 2014 • 4:06 pm
I think you get the phenomenon wrong. Muhammad ;and I don’t deny great personages before him also like Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Socrates and Jesus, they all through Word of Revelation from the One-True-God, opened hearts and minds of the people for love of knowledge and truth and hence there was an explosion of great civilizations through them; later when people lost track of that truthful path revealed on such personages and enunciated by them and concentrated on the worldly and material benefits from the rulers of the time; the treasure of knowledge was lost .
I wrote following post on the blog: “THE CALLADUS BLOG”: topic “What I believe”:
Calladus said:19/2/14 4:13 PM
“I started a self-guided course of comparative religion at the age of 32, in 1995.” Unquote
Thanks for your reply.
I appreciate your search for truth; for which you started a self-guided course of comparative religion/s. Naturally, you would have not included Atheism in your study as they (the Atheists) don’t consider that they are a “religion” in any meaning of the world.
Please confirm that you did not include Atheism in your comparative study. Did you? Please.
The second point is ; what principle did you adopt for your comparative study of religions (excluding Atheism)?
What religions did you study, intensively, and from what sources?
I think all above are very reasonable questions.
20/2/14 9:16 AM
Paarsurrey said: (posted but awaiting moderation from Calladus before it is exhibited on that blog)
@Calladus : 22/2/14 7:48 PM
“The “principle” that I started out with in my course of study was that God was real and Jesus is his son.”
We will first discuss you first principle that you have mentioned in you post.
We find that this principle is not valid for other religions; Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses did not mention that Jesus was son of God. So this sentence is not valid as a principle of research or criteria of search into the religion in the absolute sense.
I think with your study of Christianity you would have found that Jesus did not mention that he was a son of God in literal and physical terms in unequivocal words.
So, even Jesus never agreed with this statement or principle. Your study of religions notwithstanding, I think, it is not valid as a measure/standard/criteria of search or research of truth in religion/s.
So, I think, your comparative study of religions does not make a comparison of them, not at all, to find the Truth.
It was a wrong principle so it has in fact no bearing on religion.
Am I reasonable? Please