Posts Tagged ‘Bahaism’

It is the Bahaism people who made Bahaullah a Messenger of God; God didn’t!

March 15, 2021

Please view paarsurrey’s posts on Religious Forum by clicking the post numbers.

Txxxxxxx said: I am a follower of Baha’u’llah, who was raised as a Muslim. After He received His Revelation from God He broke away from Islam and revealed new teachings and laws, and eventually a new religion called the Baha’i Faith was established in His name.

#51 < paarsurrey wrote:, 

So one could say that the Baha’i Faith grew out of Islam although it is a separate religion, since Baha’u’llah was a new Messenger of God who received a new Revelation from God, just like all the Messengers who preceded Him.

It is the Bahaism people who made Bahaullah a Messenger of G-d, Bahaullah himself, I understand:

  1. never claimed to be a Bahai or
  2. to have direct Converse with G-d or
  3. he himself claimed to be a Messenger of G-d, please.

If yes, then kindly quote from Kitab-i-Iqan, please. Right?

Regards

OOO

Additional Resources:

<Courtesy : https://www.reddit.com/&gt;

Posted by u/Cordath2 months ago “Source of Hadith that Baha’u’llah quotes”

I’ve been wondering this for a while but have never found a direct answer.

I’m wondering where one can find the Hadith Baha’u’llah quotes in the Kitab-i-Iqan? A lot of times before quoting one, he’ll say something like “are they not familiar with the common saying (insert Hadith here)”.

Unfortunately, when I look for the Hadith, I have a very hard time finding it in many cases.

Could someone perhaps explain this?

senmcglinn2 months ago <Courtesy : https://www.reddit.com/user/senmcglinn/&gt;

In the first place, most of the hadith collections translated online are Sunni, so if you are searching in English your chances are limited. However, if you are searching in Arabic, you may well find something similar but not exactly the same. This is because the texts Baha’u’llah and his readers were using were hand-copied and a given hadith had various versions. It was only when printed versions were produced that the texts were standardized.
Here’s an example of the search for the exact form of a Shiah hadith that Baha’u’llah cites;
https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/2018/06/03/a-book-similar-to-the-quran/

Cordath 2 months ago

Thank you very much for this response. It makes things a lot clearer 

Alif_Allah2 months ago

For someone who knows Arabic and is familiar with hadith studies, it shouldn’t be a difficult task to find primary sources with complete chains of narrators for the ahadith quoted in Kitab-i-Iqan (as a starting point) and other writings of Bahá’u’lláh and The Báb. Honestly, it surprises me that the references to the original sources are not mentioned in the officially published versions since this is something very fundamental. For any academic Muslim to treat the arguments made seriously, it is essential to provide him/her a source for the hadith mentioned in the writings. Otherwise they don’t take it seriously and rightly so.6ReplyShareReportSave

tgisfw2 months ago

I think is translated differently? Also some tradition are oral .

NJBridgewater1 month ago

Probably because most of the Shiah Hadith collections have not been translated yet into English. You won’t find any of those Hadiths in Sunni sources. Baha’u’llah exclusively quoted from Shiah Hadiths or ones that are used by the Sufis in their mystical writings. Some Hadiths have been altered by the Shiah (especially ones quoted by Baha’u’llah), so you’d need to find 19th century sources that have not been altered.

OOO

<Courtesy : https://www.reddit.com/&gt;

https://www.quora.com/Where-in-the-writings-of-Bahaullah-does-he-claim-to-be-a-prophet

Brad Smith, I am a reader first before I became a writerAnswered October 12, 2017

Baha’u’llah during his lifetime made several claims for himself. Here is a some of those selection of his claims. This is one facet which the Baha’is do not reveal for their followers.

  1. It is mentioned in the Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics under the title ‘Bab’, that the Baha’is called Mirza Ali Mohammed Bab as “Rabbi-ul-Ala” (The Most Elevated Lord).
  2. Baha’u’llah mentions in Aqdas, page 43, “There is no God but I the Honored, the Wise.”
  3. He again writes in Aqdas, page 144 “Accept whatever is commanded by Baha (himself) the Lord of Eternity.”
  4. In Aqdas, page 8, Baha’u’llah says, “We have sent down all the Messengers and we have revealed all the Books.”
  5. In Istaqaaraat, page 34, Baha’u’llah writes, “The Master of Eternity lies in prison” (referring to his imprisonment and confinement).
  6. In his Tablets, Page 217, Baha’u’llah writes, “All, save me are created from my command.”
  7. In his Al-Mubeen, page 34, Baha’u’llah writes, “All praise is for you O Baha’u’llah, the Creator of existence.”
  8. In the same book, page 190, he says, “Obey the commands of your Elevated, Splendorous God, Baha’u’llah.
  9. Again in Al-Mubeen, page 297, Baha’u’llah again refers to himself as, “You Most Beneficent Lord, Baha’u’llah”,
  10. In his Tajalliyaat (Tajalli number 4), page 5, Baha’u’llah decrees, “Most surely I am Allah. There is no God save me. I am the Lord of everything. The O my creatures, you worship me alone.”
  11. Abdul Baha writes in Badaaé-ul-Asaar, page 139, “Baha’u’llah is unique, incomparable. It is necessary for everyone to turn towards Baha’u’llah in his prayers.”
  12. In Maftoon, page 15, Bahaullah writes to his son Abdul Baha, “This is a letter from Allah, the Honored and the Wise (Baha’u’llah) to Allah the Gracious, the Aware (Abdul Baha).” Thus not only did the father, but even the son claimed divinity for himself.

Now here is an important point to note. Baha’is do not present the belief of Divinity of Baha’u’llah before everyone. It is only revealed to those who are firm in the Baha’i faith. Most Baha’is till date remain ignorant of these claims. Even the Baha’i preachers refuse to openly acknowledge that Baha’u’llah made claims of divinity.

To a Muslim, Baha’u’llah is Imam Mahdi, to a Christian, he is Jesus Christ, to a Jew he is Yehuda, to a Parsi, he is Behram, and to a Hindu, he is Kilankari Avtaar.

https://www.quora.com/Where-in-the-writings-of-Bahaullah-does-he-claim-to-be-a-prophet

Maymoon Jawaheri, lives in Germany (2000-present)Answered November 23, 2017

Mirza Hossain Ali Noori never claimed himself to be a prophet.

Roger Spielberg, Extensive study of Persian, Arabic, and English Baha’i scripture and historyAnswered October 11, 2017

I don’t know but I do know that he claims in the most explicit manner that he is God. While he was imprisoned he would state:

“There is no God but me the lonely, the imprisoned.” (Baha’u’llah, Athar-i Qalam-i A`la (Canada: Mu’assisiyi Ma`arif Baha’i, 1996), vol. 1, no. 39, p. 226.)

Safir Zarandi, Archeology Professor at Institute of Archeology (2012-present)Answered November 30

Prophethood is a station given to Bahaullah by his followers.

In reality Bahaullah claimed divinity.

Baha’is have resorted to a middle way and called Bahaullah a Menifestation of God which is against what is mentioned in their most holy book ‘Kitab e Aqdas’.

OOO

Did Baha’u’llah, the Prophet of the Baha’i Faith, perform miracles?

Is it true that Baha’u’llah is the ‘Lord of Lords’ and that he is the sender of all prophets?

Did Bahá’u’lláh claim to be a Prophet in the KItab-i-Aqdas?

What caused you to leave the The Baha’i Faith?

How many wives of Baha’u’llah broke the covenant after His death and what was the reason behind their doing so?

Why hasn’t most of the tablets of Baha’u’llah or ‘Abdu’l-Baha been translated or published into English yet?Do Muslims reject the Bahà’í prophet Baha’u’llah?

Did Baha’u’llah explicitly claim that he is the avatar of Lord Krishna?

What is the current status of the descendants of those in Bahá’u’lláh’s family who are considered “Covenant-breakers”?

Do Muslims believe Bahá’u’lláh existed?

Why did Bahá’u’lláh marry a 15-year-old girl when he was 18?

What are the laws in the book of Bahá’u’lláh?

What miracle did Baha’u’llah show?What are the titles of Baha’u’llah?

What will happen if the humanity continue in its waywardness and refusal to accept Baha’u’llah?

No version of Christian 4 Gospels exist that used to Jesus read from

February 17, 2021
Religious Forums

Lxxxx of LDS said (One may view text of his post by clicking the post # below ) ,

” when I started my journey, I was under the misguided thinking that I would read all the ‘bibles’ and decide which bible ‘I like’.
What about the bible ‘God likes’?

there are over 300 versions of the ‘bible’ in the English language, all claiming to be better… better than what?!
(All of them compare themselves to one book… I wonder which book that could be…)”

paarsurrey responded vide Post #187

There is not a single version of Christian 4 Gospels that Jesus read from and liked it and asked others to read from. Neither the old Pauline-Christian denominations (Catholics and Protestants), nor the new one’s (JWs, LDS, Bahaism) who have the creed that “Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross” have even the original Aramaic 4 Gospels with them , the language Jesus and Mary spoke, I figure. Right? All the existent 4 Gospels and all versions of it are ,therefore, unreliable, I understand. Right?

Regards

Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

December 4, 2019

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/quotes-series-from-quran-authored-by-g-d-not-by-muhammad.227090/page-14#post-6426040

Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad
Post #272 

Paarsurrey wrote:

“Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word “say.” ”

Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @xxxxxx in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word “say” and or “قُلۡ” in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words “اَلَمۡ تَرَ” or “Dost thou” is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And “یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ” or “O thou Prophet” is yet another one:

[33:17]قُلۡ لَّنۡ یَّنۡفَعَکُمُ الۡفِرَارُ اِنۡ فَرَرۡتُمۡ مِّنَ الۡمَوۡتِ اَوِ الۡقَتۡلِ وَ اِذًا لَّا تُمَتَّعُوۡنَ اِلَّا قَلِیۡلًا ﴿۱۷﴾
Say, ‘Flight shall not avail you if you flee from death or slaughter; and even then you will enjoy but a little.’
[33:18]قُلۡ مَنۡ ذَا الَّذِیۡ یَعۡصِمُکُمۡ مِّنَ اللّٰہِ اِنۡ اَرَادَ بِکُمۡ سُوۡٓءًا اَوۡ اَرَادَ بِکُمۡ رَحۡمَۃً ؕ وَ لَا یَجِدُوۡنَ لَہُمۡ مِّنۡ دُوۡنِ اللّٰہِ وَلِیًّا وَّ لَا نَصِیۡرًا ﴿۱۸﴾
Say, ‘Who is it that can save you against Allah if it be His wish to do you harm or if it be His wish to show you mercy?’ And they will not find for themselves any friend or helper other than Allah.
The Holy Quran – Chapter: 32: As-Sajdah

Right, please?
For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.

  1. Is there any such verse in the Torah of the Judaism where G-d has directly addressed Moses, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
  2. Is there any such verse in the Bible of the Christianity where G-d (not Jesus, as Jesus was never god or son of god) has directly addressed Jesus, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
  3. Is there any such verse in Kitab-i-Iqan by Bahaullah (where G-d has directly spoken to Bahaullah, Bahaullah was never a god), there cannot be any verse as G-d did not speak to Bahaullah directly? If there is any, please quote it here. Right, please?
  4. Kitab-i-Iqan was written by Bahaullah in 1862 (not revealed by G-d ) and the Covenant was taken by Bahaullah (without any direct Converse/Commandment of G-d, as I understand) in 1863. Therefore, if there had been any direct Converse from G-d Bahaullah would have mentioned it in Kitab-i-Iqan. In the Pre-Covenant period, Kitab-i-Iqan is the only core book of Bahaullah. Right,please?

Regards
____________
I observe that Quran right from its start to its end is a direct Converse and in a sense a continuous dialogue between G-d and Muhammad providing live guidance, and through Muhammad to his companions, to the other people of his time and the world at large and for all times to come to all humanity. Right, please?

  • “یٰۤاَیُّہَا الرَّسُوۡلُ ” translated in English with the words “O Messenger” is another style, please refer my post #243 .
  • “وَ لَوۡ تَرٰۤی “/ “If only thou couldst see” as mentioned in post #255.
  • Another mode of direct Converse is direct commandment as in the verse [32:31] “فَاَعۡرِضۡ” , “وَ انۡتَظِرۡ” So turn away from them, and wait #261.

It is His mercy that G-d sends His Messengers

November 30, 2019

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/bahai-and-science.227398/#post-6411453

#18 paarsurrey

“He (G-d) just doesn’t need messengers.”

I agree with one here. G-d does not need any Messengers/Prophets, it is His mercy that G-d sends His Messengers for us human beings guidance:

  1. But Bahaullah did not claim in unequivocal terms to be a Messenger/Prophet of G-d in Kitab-i-Iqan – one of the most famous and core book of Bahaullah. If yes then Bahaullah’s followers to please quote from Kitab-i-Iqan in this connection, please.
  2. Moreover Bahaullah was never a Bahai. If he ever said so, then also Bahaullah’s followers to please quote from Kitab-i-Iqan in this connection, please.
  3. Some Bahais believe that Bahaullah was god. If yes, then he could not claim and cannot be a truthful Messenger/Prophet , as both are distinct from one another.Right, please?
  4. etc, and etc

Regards

instead of Abdul Baha , Shoghi Effendi and the UHJ following Bahaullah; Bahaullah has to follow them

May 30, 2019

 

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/my-current-version-of-hinduism.221194/#post-6123270

#5paarsurrey

I understand Bahaullah did not claim in straightforward manner anything of the sort in his core book Kitab-i-Iqan or “Book of Certitude”, please.

Regards

 

Bahaullah’s claims in Iqan are “implied”,none is unequivocal

May 20, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/bahaullah-kitab-i-iqan-%E2%80%9Cbook-of-certitude%E2%80%9D.220566/page-3#post-6111585

Regards

“the door to the knowledge of God is closed”

#50paarsurrey, 

It is a meaningless concept. Nobody can close the door to knowledge of God as nobody has hegemony on God-Allah-YHVH, He can give knowledge to anybody and anytime .
If Bahaullah said it, it means that he found God’s door closed for knowledge for himself (Bahaullah) and his blind-faith followers. Right, please?

Regards

Bahaullah: Gawhar Khanum

May 17, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/bahaullah-gawhar-khanum.220335/page-6#post-6106497

#109paarsurrey

Bahaullah: Gawhar Khanum

I started this thread with simple questions:
Bahaullah got married with his third wife, Gawhar Khanum:

  1. who did solemnize this marriage?
  2. and on what tradition?
  3. It sure happened in the post Iqan period.

It is important to ascertain the religion Bahaullah himself followed till then.

Later with some research on internet about Gawhar Khanum- third wife of Bahaullah, I find some startling things about Bahaullah and his relationship with Gawhar Khanum :

  1. “Bahaullah’s third marriage was contracted when he lived in Baghdad. Although details are sketchy, it seems that relatives of Bahaullah arranged the marriage in Kashan, Persia, where the woman, Gawhar Khanum lived. She was then sent with her brother to Bahaullah in Baghdad. This arrangement was meant to honor both Bahaullah and Gawhar Khanum. For Bahaullah to have refused her hand in marriage would have been highly disrespectful to those involved and especially damaging to the woman’s reputation.”
  2. “Bahá’u’lláh also married Gawhar Khánum, a widow of a martyr. Her age was not known, the couple also only had one child; Furúghíyyih. Gawhar Khánum was a maid to Ásíyih Khánum.”

Regards

It seems Bahaullah and his followers suppressed information about Gawhar Khanum and as to how Bahaullah unjustly and inhumanly dealt with her.

The above information suggests following questions/apprehensions:

  1. Gawhar Khánum was a maid to Ásíyih Khánum, how come Bahaullah established relationship with Gawhar Khánum?
  2. If the relationship was disrespectful to Gawhar Khánum, why it was not disrespectful to the other party , namely, Bahaullah?
  3. Why Gawhar Khánum’s brother had to intervene in the matter and had to ask Bahaullah to regularize it?
  4. Later when the baby-girl was of 2/3 years of age or even less, why did Bahaullah desert Gawhar Khánum and her little child to live with her (Gawhar Khánum’s) brother?
  5. What provisions did Bahaullah make for the upbringing of the baby-girl and Gawhar Khánum while they lived with her brother.
  6. Was Gawhar Khánum forced to become a Bahai?
  7. Later Gawhar Khánum and her girl-child from Bahaullah were excommunicated to deprive them their rights in Bahaullah’s property/inheritance ?

Were all the above acts just and humane, please?

Regards

 

Shoghi Effendi wrongly translates Iqan

May 16, 2019

Religious Forums

#30paarsurrey

I am now at page 53 of Kitab-i-Iqan-Farsi.

At passage # 76 is written:

“Knowledge is the most grievous veil between man and his Creator.”

There are no words in Farsi-Iqan which have been translated by Shoghi Effendi as “between man and his Creator.
Further, “Knowledge is the most grievous veil” is neither a verse of Quran nor it is Hadith. Right, please?

Regards

OOO

jang-e-muqaddas-125x200-1-27 

Holy War -the peaceful version- with reasons, arguments and peaceful dialogue

The News:

One will, perhaps, love to read the following:

“Holy War”: Is it Armageddon? with its ” Peaceful Version”! 1

“Holy War”: Is it Armegiddon / Armageddon? – with its “Peaceful Version”! 1 | paarsurrey (wordpress.com)

One will be taken aback to note that Armegiddon/Armageddon is nothing like as one would have imagined or known so far. It is not to be fought with any physical and destructive weaponry and or the lethal arsenal of the day. It is peaceful and in fact, I understand, it has already started and it is sown like a seed!

It was a debate between the Pauline-Christianity (represented by Mr. Abdullah Atham) and the Second Coming 1835-1908 , that took place in Urdu language and was published then by the name “Jang-e-Muqaddas” in 1893 ( 22 May 1893 to 5 June 1893) in the then British India and has been recently translated and published in English by the name “The Holy War”:

The Holy War — A DEBATE BETWEEN ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY — Jang-e-Muqaddas (alislam.org)

Right?

From: a peaceful Ahmadiyya Muslim

OOO  

These are the days of Armageddon – the final battle between good and evil –The peaceful Version! 3

Has Armageddon already started with the advent of Second Coming 1835-1908 ?– The peaceful Version! 2

“The followers of Baha’u’llah are called Baha’is.” Not exactly.

May 13, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/was-bahaullah-a-bahai-please.220052/page-8#post-6102436

“The followers of Baha’u’llah are called Baha’is.”

#151paarsurrey 

Not exactly.
Whom they follow who call themselves Atheist or Agnostic or Skeptic?
Those who follow Atheism or Agnosticism or Skepticism are called Atheist or Agnostic or Skeptic.

Did Bahaullah proclaim that he was a Bahai or First Bahai or he was devising a new religion named Bahaism?
If yes, please quote from him.
Anybody please

Regards

 

References to the quotes in Iqan must be provided

May 11, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/bahaullah-gawhar-khanum.220335/page-5#post-6099973

“The effort would be better spent looking for those references now, rather than saying they were wrong or did not exist.”

#99paarsurrey

That effort must have been made by the followers of Bahaullah, now it should be more easy. The books have been published and most if not all, I understand, are available even online. The references of all such Shia/Islam Ahadith/Narrations should be provided in the Arabic text. Now more than a century has passed, yet it has not been done. How much time Bahaullah’s followers want to take while they say Iqan is their core religious book?

I also understand that in the first hand-written or dictated Iqan had many mistakes even in the Quranic verses quoted and Bahaullah had to correct these later.

Regards

 


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