Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

December 4, 2019


Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad
Post #272 

Paarsurrey wrote:

“Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word “say.” ”

Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @xxxxxx in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word “say” and or “قُلۡ” in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words “اَلَمۡ تَرَ” or “Dost thou” is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And “یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ” or “O thou Prophet” is yet another one:

[33:17]قُلۡ لَّنۡ یَّنۡفَعَکُمُ الۡفِرَارُ اِنۡ فَرَرۡتُمۡ مِّنَ الۡمَوۡتِ اَوِ الۡقَتۡلِ وَ اِذًا لَّا تُمَتَّعُوۡنَ اِلَّا قَلِیۡلًا ﴿۱۷﴾
Say, ‘Flight shall not avail you if you flee from death or slaughter; and even then you will enjoy but a little.’
[33:18]قُلۡ مَنۡ ذَا الَّذِیۡ یَعۡصِمُکُمۡ مِّنَ اللّٰہِ اِنۡ اَرَادَ بِکُمۡ سُوۡٓءًا اَوۡ اَرَادَ بِکُمۡ رَحۡمَۃً ؕ وَ لَا یَجِدُوۡنَ لَہُمۡ مِّنۡ دُوۡنِ اللّٰہِ وَلِیًّا وَّ لَا نَصِیۡرًا ﴿۱۸﴾
Say, ‘Who is it that can save you against Allah if it be His wish to do you harm or if it be His wish to show you mercy?’ And they will not find for themselves any friend or helper other than Allah.
The Holy Quran – Chapter: 32: As-Sajdah

Right, please?
For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.

  1. Is there any such verse in the Torah of the Judaism where G-d has directly addressed Moses, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
  2. Is there any such verse in the Bible of the Christianity where G-d (not Jesus, as Jesus was never god or son of god) has directly addressed Jesus, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
  3. Is there any such verse in Kitab-i-Iqan by Bahaullah (where G-d has directly spoken to Bahaullah, Bahaullah was never a god), there cannot be any verse as G-d did not speak to Bahaullah directly? If there is any, please quote it here. Right, please?
  4. Kitab-i-Iqan was written by Bahaullah in 1862 (not revealed by G-d ) and the Covenant was taken by Bahaullah (without any direct Converse/Commandment of G-d, as I understand) in 1863. Therefore, if there had been any direct Converse from G-d Bahaullah would have mentioned it in Kitab-i-Iqan. In the Pre-Covenant period, Kitab-i-Iqan is the only core book of Bahaullah. Right,please?

I observe that Quran right from its start to its end is a direct Converse and in a sense a continuous dialogue between G-d and Muhammad providing live guidance, and through Muhammad to his companions, to the other people of his time and the world at large and for all times to come to all humanity. Right, please?

  • “یٰۤاَیُّہَا الرَّسُوۡلُ ” translated in English with the words “O Messenger” is another style, please refer my post #243 .
  • “وَ لَوۡ تَرٰۤی “/ “If only thou couldst see” as mentioned in post #255.
  • Another mode of direct Converse is direct commandment as in the verse [32:31] “فَاَعۡرِضۡ” , “وَ انۡتَظِرۡ” So turn away from them, and wait #261.

It is His mercy that G-d sends His Messengers

November 30, 2019


#18 paarsurrey

“He (G-d) just doesn’t need messengers.”

I agree with one here. G-d does not need any Messengers/Prophets, it is His mercy that G-d sends His Messengers for us human beings guidance:

  1. But Bahaullah did not claim in unequivocal terms to be a Messenger/Prophet of G-d in Kitab-i-Iqan – one of the most famous and core book of Bahaullah. If yes then Bahaullah’s followers to please quote from Kitab-i-Iqan in this connection, please.
  2. Moreover Bahaullah was never a Bahai. If he ever said so, then also Bahaullah’s followers to please quote from Kitab-i-Iqan in this connection, please.
  3. Some Bahais believe that Bahaullah was god. If yes, then he could not claim and cannot be a truthful Messenger/Prophet , as both are distinct from one another.Right, please?
  4. etc, and etc


Direct “Word of G-d” is prefaced by the word “say”

November 17, 2019



“Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word “say.” ”

There are many a verse in Quran that preface the word “say” or the Arabic word “قُلۡ” one such verse is :

[17:82]وَ قُلۡ جَآءَ الۡحَقُّ وَ زَہَقَ الۡبَاطِلُ ؕ اِنَّ الۡبَاطِلَ کَانَ زَہُوۡقًا ﴿۸۲﴾
And say, ‘Truth has come and falsehood has vanished away. Falsehood does indeed vanish away fast.’
The Holy Quran – Chapter: 17: Bani Isra’il

Friend @xxxxx
Doesn’t it prove that Quran is authored by G-d and not authored by Muhammad,please?

Friend @xxxxxxx
I have read “Kitab-i-Iqan” or the “Book of Certitude” from cover to cover .
“it is” the “primary theological work” of Bahaullah. “The work was composed partly in Persian and partly in Arabic by Bahá’u’lláh“:
Kitáb-i-Íqán – Wikipedia
I have read it in Persian/Farsi, and Arabic and in English. I didn’t find any sentence in it from G-d which is prefaced by the word “say” or the Arabic word “قُلۡ”. Did I miss to note it please?

Furhter the Bahá’í Reference Library Writings of Bahá’u’lláh mentions,
“The Kitáb-i-Íqán – The Book of Certitude.
A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi and first published in English in 1931.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library
So even the publishers Bahá’í Reference Library testify that it is not Word from G-d. Right, please?

“Flat Earth” notion

November 15, 2019



“so, what about the Earth, is it flat or a sphere?”
#165 paarsurrey
I am an Ahmadiyya peace Muslim. I am 100% sure that Quran does not say that the Earth is flat.
About Bible, following is what the JWs say:

Does the Bible Teach That the Earth Is Flat?
AudioAudio download options Does the Bible Teach That the Earth Is Flat?
The Bible’s answer
No, the Bible does not teach that the earth is flat. * The Bible is not a science textbook. At the same time, nothing in the Bible contradicts proved science. What the Bible says is “always reliable, now and forever.”—Psalm 111:8.

  • What does the Bible mean by “the four corners of the earth”?

The expressions “the four corners of the earth” and “the ends of the earth” used in the Bible are not to be taken literally, as if the earth were square or had ends. (Isaiah 11:12; Job 37:3) Instead, these evidently are figures of speech referring to the entire surface of the earth. The Bible uses the four points of the compass in a similar way.—Luke 13:29.

The Hebrew term translated “corners” or “ends” seems to be an idiom based on the word for “wings.” According to The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, “because the wing of a bird is used as a covering for its young, [this Hebrew term] acquires the meaning of the extremity of anything stretched out.” The same reference work adds that at Job 37:3 and Isaiah 11:12, “the term means the coasts, boundaries, or extremities of the land surface of the earth.”


Flat Earth

November 14, 2019




“The topic is about “flat earth”, where scriptures like the Bible and the Qur’an, give picture of flat earth, and not sphere-like planet (oblate spheroid).
Since I was replying to paarsurrey, who believed in the Qur’an, so I gave him verse (20:53) with different translations, which say the Earth was spread out like a “carpet” or “bed”, which is repeated a number of times”

#146 paarsurrey
One is wrong and one’s thinking is incorrect.The natural word “mahd” (triliteral root mīm hā dāl (م ه د). It occurs 16 times in the Quran, in six derived forms, one could see all such places with references and with the meanings at the following link:
The Quranic Arabic Corpus – Quran Dictionary:

Following words have been used by 50+ translators (including some non-Muslims )as per their understanding/interpretation of the natural Arabic word mahd used in Quran verse 20:53:

“a cradle, a bed , a carpet spread out, an expanse, laid out, habitable, a bed spread out, your (safe) haven, a habitat, a flattened expanse, a liveable place”.
Ta Ha 20:53

Further, it is Quran’s style that it invariably used other alternative words in other places so that there is no ambiguity left. Regarding Earth and Skies another root word farash has been used.

(51:48) farashnāhā We have spread it وَالْأَرْضَ فَرَشْنَاهَا فَنِعْمَ الْمَاهِدُونَ

“a resting-place, couch, a bed, place of restfulness, a carpet, a place of settlement, spread out, a place of repose, a habitat, a carpet, (as) a bedding, habitable, a place of rest, a habitat, a resting place, a habitable place, a base, a settled habitation, a spreading”,
adh-Dhariyat 51:48
and at another place:

(2:22) firāshan a resting place الَّذِي جَعَلَ لَكُمُ الْأَرْضَ فِرَاشًا وَالسَّمَاءَ بِنَاءً
has been translated as “spacious, wide extent, laid out, furnished, stretched it, carpet, prepared its crust, habitable for its inhabitant, a base, cradled , habitable, floor, a (livable) floor” including by some translators as “bed”, for which please see the link.
al-Baqarah 2:22 .

One should not hesitate to investigate it properly which one has not yet done, one should admit. Right, please?


From where did the “wives” of Cain and Abel come?

November 14, 2019


From where did the “wives” of Cain and Abel come?

Adam was not the first human being, he got evolved in million of years his tribe along-with other tribes. Yes, Adam was was the first human being with whom G-d conversed directly.
Shujra*/Tree of life** or family tree*** or the tree of the knowledge [of good and evil (Hebrew: עֵץ הַדַּעַת)].*~and or simple social codes of Adam*^ was some people of some tribe from whom Adam was warned not to have any social links as they were disruptive/rowdy/troublesome/trouble-making/disorderly people.
No problem for wedding of Adam or his sons etc. Right, please?

**”The tree of life (Hebrew: עֵץ הַחַיִּים Tiberian‘êṣ ha-ḥayyîmStandardEtz haChayim)[1] is a term mentioned in the Hebrew Bible.
In the Book of Genesis, the tree of life is first described in chapter 2, verse 9 .”
Tree of life (biblical) – Wikipedia
*** “A family tree, or pedigree chart, is a chart representing family relationships in a conventional tree structure. The more detailed family trees used in medicine and social work are known as genograms.” Wikipedia
*~The tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Hebrew: עֵץ הַדַּעַת).
Tree of life (biblical) – Wikipedia
*^ “Âdam or Aadam (Arabic: آدم‎, romanizedʾĀdam) is believed to have been the first human and nabi (Arabic: نَـبِي‎, prophet) on Earth, in Islam.[1] Adam’s role as the father of the human race is looked upon by Muslims with reverence. Muslims also refer to his wife, Haawa (Arabic: حَـواء‎, Eve), as the “mother of mankind”.[2] Muslims see Adam as the first Muslim on Earth, as the Quran states that all the Prophets preached the same faith of Islam (Arabic: إِسـلام‎, ‘Submission‘ (to God)).[3]
In the Qur’an Adam is given the name by God known as the (Adam-I-Safi) or The Chosen One.[4][5]
Adam was on earth, God taught him how to plant seeds and bake bread. This was to become the way of all of Adam’s children.[12]
Adam in Islam – Wikipedia

‘Flat Earth’ a fictional notion

November 13, 2019

Further to my post “Flat Earth” a fictional notion vide


I wrote following post, the later part of it on this topic meaning of the Arabic word farash mentioned in Quran

(51:48:2) farashnāhā We have spread it وَالْأَرْضَ فَرَشْنَاهَا فَنِعْمَ الْمَاهِدُونَ


“a resting-place, couch, a bed, place of restfulness, a carpet, a place of settlement, spread out, a place of repose, a habitat, a carpet, (as) a bedding, habitable,  a place of rest, a habitat, a resting place, a habitable place, a base, a settled habitation,  a spreading”, and at


(2:22:5) firāshan a resting place الَّذِي جَعَلَ لَكُمُ الْأَرْضَ فِرَاشًا وَالسَّمَاءَ بِنَاءً

has been translated as “spacious, wide extent,  laid out, furnished, stretched it, carpet, prepared its crust, habitable for its inhabitant, a base, cradled , habitable, floor, a (livable) floor” including

by some translators as “bed”, for which please see the links


https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/22/default.htm  .

I add further:


definitional (adj.)
“of or pertaining to definition,” 1817; see definition + -al (1).

Related entries & more
definition (n.)
late 14c., diffinicioun, definicion, “decision, setting of boundaries, determination and stating of the limits and distinctive nature of a thing,” also “limitations,” also “a statement of the meaning of a word or phrase,” from Old French definicion, from Latin definitionem (nominative definitio) “a bounding, a boundary; a limiting, prescribing; a definition, explanation,” the last sense most often in Cicero, noun of action from past-participle stem of definire “to limit, determine, explain,” from de “completely” (see de-) + finire “to bound, limit,” from finis “boundary, end” (see finish (v.)). In logic, meaning “act of stating what something means” is from 1640s. Meaning “degree of distinctness of the details in a picture” is from 1889.

definition | Search Online Etymology Dictionary
Is that one means.


  1. 1.
    a piece of furniture for sleep or rest, typically a framework with a mattress and coverings.
    “a large double bed”Similar:couch,berth,billet,the sack,the hay,one’s pit,kip
  2. 2.
    the bottom of the sea or a lake or river.
    “the gravelly bed of the stream”
    Similar: bottom,floor
    the floor” data-hw=”floor” data-lb=”” data-tae=”false” data-te=”false” data-tl=”en-US” data-url=”/search?q=define+floor&forcedict=floor&dictcorpus=en-US”>
  3. lay the groundwork for a colony on the moon” data-hw=”groundwork” data-lb=”” data-tae=”false” data-te=”false” data-tl=”en-US” data-url=”/search?q=define+groundwork&forcedict=groundwork&dictcorpus=en-US”>
  4. verb
  1. settle down to sleep or rest for the night in an improvised place.
    “he usually bedded down on newspapers in the church porch”Similar:go to bed,retire
    retired from the navy in 1966″ data-hw=”retire” data-lb=”” data-tae=”false” data-te=”false” data-tl=”en-US” data-url=”/search?q=define+retire&forcedict=retire&dictcorpus=en-US”>
    call it a day,go to sleep,get some sleep,sleep,nap
    ,have/take a nap,catnap,doze,have a doze,hit the sack,hit the hay,
    turn in,snooze,snatch forty winks,get some shut-eye,kip,
    have a kip,get some kip,hit the pit,catch some Zs,slumber
  2. 2.
    transfer (a plant) from a pot or seed tray to a garden plot.
    “I bedded out these houseplants”



A Scientist, if one is worth it

November 13, 2019


#241 paarsurrey


Why Scientists need to accept Eastern thought

Religion is a private matter of a person. A Scientist, if one is worth it, is to concentrate on the problem of Science in hand and solve it as per the dictates of the Science while remaining open to one’s Religion or other Religions/No-Religions whatsoever.

Many people had done that and there has been no problem or mythical/superstitious/phantom hindrances some people have been suggesting unnecessarily.
Right, please?


  • Like Like x 2

Utopian ideas that Bahais harbor

November 11, 2019


Two informative posts on RF. Please click the post #61 

#61    xxxxxxxxx

Granted, English is the current lingua franca, by accident of history, but it’s hardly well suited. It’s very irregular and the orthography is a nightmare. How anyone ever learns to read and write in it is beyond me.

A good interlanguage would have to be alphabetic, phonetic, and regular. It should avoid obscure linguistic quirks.

Esperanto was constructed to be alphabetic, phonetic and mostly regular. Its syntax, lexicon, phonology, and semantic structure is familiar to most Indo-European speakers. To speakers of non Indo-European languages it’s less so, but nothing will be ideal for everyone.

For current speakers of Indo-European languages, Esperanto can be learned extremely quickly and easily. That’s its advantage over English.

Off the top of my head:
Mandarin: Difficult orthography.
Hindi/Urdu: Not alphabetic — an abugida and an abjad.
Spanish: Better, but still a natural language, hence, irregular.
Arabic: A complex abjad.

All natural languages have irregularities, which constructed languages seek to correct. Some languages contain unusual sounds which most of the world would find difficult to master as a 2nd language. Some have unusual grammatical forms or other quirks.
No interlanguage would be ideal for everyone.

At the deepest level there is only One consciousness and it is omniscient.

November 11, 2019


#45 paarsurrey  wrote:

I visualize that there cannot be West without East, and there cannot be an East without West as there cannot be North (Pole) without South (Pole). If one destroys one Pole the other will also get destroyed. In this Globe we need all four directions. Diversity is whole life. Right, please?
I appreciate.