Islam is a message of hope

September 2, 2015

<www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”My views about Islam and why it is so difficult to attain constructive dialogue about them”

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Post #144

Paarsurrey wrote:

All good points mentioned in the post and coloured by me in magenta. Thanks and regards

Jews broke “Sinaitic covenant”, hence Jews go out of the lineage of Abraham and Jacob

September 2, 2015

Discussion Forum <www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”My views about Islam and why it is so difficult to attain constructive dialogue about them”

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Further to my post #120 above, I add:
Jesus’ reasonable argument is:
The Jews believe that they are from the lineage of Abraham and as such fall under the covenant of G-d with Abraham:
“God concluded a covenant with Abraham (Gen. xv. 18, xvii. 2, 7) by which He entered into a special relationship with him and his descendants for all time” that “was renewed on Mount Sinai when, before the giving of the Law, Israel as a people pledged itself to keep His covenant (Ex. xix. 8).” Jewish Encylopedia.
“Judaism knows of no other than the old Sinaitic covenant. Eternal as the covenant with heaven and earth is God’s covenant with the seed of Jacob (Jer. xxxiii. 25et seq.).” Jewish Encylopedia.
The Law given under Sinaitic covenant has two most important statutes.
1. Belief in ONENESS of G-d. Deut. 6:5-9
2. Accepting the truthful prophets of G-d. Deut. 18:20
By not following the above statutes and denying Jesus’ prophet-hood, the Jews of the time of Jesus had broken the covenant and were thus out of the lineage of Abraham or Jacob.
Jesus charged the Jews correctly. Right?
Regards

Jews ceased to be sons of G-d: Jesus expalins

September 2, 2015

Discussion Forum <www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”My views about Islam and why it is so difficult to attain constructive dialogue about them”

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Post #120

Paarsurrey adds further:

I would like to add here that Jesus explained the concept of Son of G-d in John 8 and I quote from it :

John 8:37-47
[37] I know that you are the children of Abraham: but you seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. [38] I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do the things that you have seen with your father. [39] They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. [40] But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.
[41] You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. [42] Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: [43] Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. [44] You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. [45] But if I say the truth, you believe me not.[46] Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me?[47] He that is of God, heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God.​

Jesus told the Jews of his day that since they were not abiding by the commandment of G-d, they had become sons of the Devil (and ceased to be sons of G-d), and in the same reasoning since Jesus was abiding by G-d’s commandments so he was son of G-d .
Regards

Jews to relinquish concepts borrowed from pagans: Ezra mentioned in Quran for this purpose

September 2, 2015

Discussion Forum <www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”My views about Islam and why it is so difficult to attain constructive dialogue about them”

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  1. Post#110

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    I don’t agree with you.
    The Jews later realized that they needed reformation and cleansing :

    Quote.
    “It was, however, in Alexandria that Jewish Hellenism reached its greatest development. Here, freed from the national bonds which held it firmly to tradition in Palestine, Hellenistic Judaism became more Hellenistic than Jewish.
    It is not true to say…that Hellenism had no appreciable influence upon the development of Judaism; its influence was appreciable for many centuries; but it was driven out of the Jewish camp by the national sentiment aroused in the Maccabean and Bar Kokba revolts, and in forming the bridge between Judaism and Christianity it lost whatever permanent influence it might have possessed.
    Since that time, even in Egypt, the classical home of Hellenism, rabbinical Jewish communities have flourished that have borne no perceptible trace of the movement which made Alexandria great…”Unquote
    1906 Jewish Encylopedia​

    Yet it was far from their religion being reverted to the pure teachings of Moses.
    The fresh and sweet water of Revelation that descended on Moses from G-d was mixed with the saline and bitter impurities of paganism etc.
    This is what is being discussed in the context verses (of verse [9:30]).

    Regards

  2. Post #113
  3. Post #114

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    I think, you mostly agreed with me.
    Regards

influence of paganism/Hellenism on Judaism

September 2, 2015

Discussion Forum <www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”My views about Islam and why it is so difficult to attain constructive dialogue about them”

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Post#102

Paarsurrey further added:

For the influence of paganism/Hellenism on Judaism I would like to add to quote from the Jewish Encyclopedia which is only a glimpse of what actually was going on:

HELLENISM (from έλληνίζειν , “to speak Greek,” or “to make Greek”):
Word used to express the assimilation, especially by the Jews, of Greek speech, manners, and culture, from the fourth centuryB.C. through the first centuries of the common era. Post-exilic Judaism was largely recruited from those returned exiles who regarded it as their chief task to preserve their religion uncontaminated, a task that required the strict separation of the congregation both from all foreign peoples (Ezra x. 11; Neh. ix. 2) and from the Jewish inhabitants of Palestine who did not strictly observe the Law (Ezra vi. 22; Neh. x. 29). This separation was especially difficult to maintain when the victorious campaign of Alexander the Great had linked the East to the West. The victory was not simply a political one. Its spiritual influence was much greater. The Greek language became a common language for nearer Asia, and with the language went Greek culture, Greek art, and Greek thought. The influence thus exerted did not entirely drive out the local languages or the local civilization. The Hellenic spirit was itself profoundly modified by contact with the Orient; and out of the mingling of the two there arose a pseudo-Greek culture which was often different in spirit from the true culture of Hellas.

Range of Hellenic Influence.

Except in Egypt, Hellenic influence was nowhere stronger than on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean. Greek cities arose there in continuation, or in place, of the older Semitic foundations, and gradually changed the aspect of the country. Such cities were Raphia, Gaza, Ascalon, Azotus, Jabneh, Jaffa, Cæsarea, Dor, and Ptolemais. It was especially in eastern Palestine that Hellenism took a firm hold, and the cities of the Decapolis (which seems also to have included Damascus) were the centers of Greek influence. This influence extended in later times over the whole of the district east of the Jordan and of the Sea of Gennesaret, especially inTrachonitis, Batanæa, and Auranitis. The cities in western Palestine were not excepted. Samaria and Panias were at an early time settled by Macedonian colonists. The names of places were Hellenized: “Rabbath-Ammon” to “Philadelphia”; “Armoab” to “Ariopolis”; “Akko” to “Ptolemais.” The same occurred with personal names: “Ḥoni” became “Menelaus”; “Joshua” became “Jason” or “Jesus.” The Hellenic influence pervaded everything, and even in the very strongholds of Judaism it modified the organization of the state, the laws, and public affairs, art, science, and industry, affecting even the ordinary things of life and the common associations of the people.

HELLENISM – JewishEncyclopedia.com

Regards

P.S.
I posted following comments on Jewish Encylopedia under topic “HELLENISM”:
Paar Surrey
I appreciate the first two paragraphs of the above write-up. Under influence of the Hellenism/paganism the Jews had been influenced and resorted to borrowing their mythical religious concepts into their own religion. Jews being “sons of G-d” which was only a spiritual concept, not a physical one, some groups started believing it as physical for certain hero personalities of their religion (like Ezra). They were led astray from the Moses’ teachings and needed to be reformed.
Regards

Ezra has been mentioned only as a passing comment in a part of the verse of Quran

September 2, 2015

Discussion Forum <www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”My views about Islam and why it is so difficult to attain constructive dialogue about them”

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Post #97

Paarsurrey wrote:

Firstly :Except for the truthful Quran, there is no other source of the time of Muhammad, dateline Mecca/Medina.
Secondly: Ezra is nowhere in Quran an important Muslim figure.
Thirdly: He has been mentioned only as a passing comment in a part of the verse to highlight the point that Jews and Christians were under a great influence of the mythical pagans.
etc, etc

Regards

Natural approach of research into Quran

September 2, 2015

Discussion Forum <www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”My views about Islam and why it is so difficult to attain constructive dialogue about them”

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Post #88

Paarsurrey wrote:

One should study/read scripture, of any religion whatever, or some important book of the Atheists*, from cover to cover, without jumping to conclusions or objections. In the second reading of the same one should note important points/questions, if the same are resolved while one proceeds further, one should delete such questions that have been resolved. At the end if there till remains some or many questions, one could discuss them with others. This is a natural question which has arisen while one was studying a book/scripture.

Other questions which one reads on the internet sites and asks such questions, these are the borrowed questions and are unnatural to be asked.
Regards

* Like “God is not Great” of Christopher Hitchens.

Quran is word for word Word of G-d

September 2, 2015

Discussion Forum <www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”My views about Islam and why it is so difficult to attain constructive dialogue about them”

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Post #62

Paarsurrey wrote:

Yes, Quran is word for word Word of G-d but it gives reasonable arguments in the text and the context of the verses, one who believes in reason will accept the reason in the verses. If one gets convinced with the reason heart and soul, there is no harm in it else one could have one’s own view-point, its one’s own discretion.
There are core teachings of Quran relating to ethical, moral and spiritual matters. There are other that relate to the secular or worldly domains, there the constitution or law of land will prevail and a Muslim would follow them as per injunction of the Quran.
Things become easy this way.
Regards

There is nothing hypothetical in Quran, all from real life

September 2, 2015

<www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”My views about Islam and why it is so difficult to attain constructive dialogue about them”

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  1. Post #51

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    One is welcome to differ with me, yet I will express my belief that I find truthful no compulsion whatsoever for others to accept it or to get convinced with it. One has to find one’s own way for one’s life. It is just a gesture for peaceful dialogue.

    Abrahamic line has been given only because Muhammad happened to be from that line, but that does not exclude others. It is Quran’s style to start with the immediate people that makes it pragmatic , then to make it generic and to generalize for the whole world. There is nothing hypothetical, all from real life.

    Regards

  2. Post #52

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    One could accept it like that as a plausible notion , as one gets it confirmed with one’s own experiences, then one may become firm on this.
    Regards

  3. Post #53

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    Quran is the final and formal Word of G-d, in that sense yes. In status Muhammad is the last prophet/messenger of G-d. After him there could come caliph/prophets who would follow Quran, that does not change the status of Muhammad as a master prophet/messenger.

    Regards

    Post #55

    Paarsurrey wrote:

    Muslim is a generic name it does not relate to a person (like Zoroastrian relate to Zoroaster or Christians to Christ or Buddhist to Buddha etc), anybody who submits to truth and is perfectly peaceful with truth qualifies to be called a muslim which in fact the word means. If one with one’s own free-will wants to become a formal Muslim then one has to openly declare and become one as such.
    I think it helps.
    Regards

  1. Post #56

Paarsurrey wrote:

The caliphate of Islam stands restored with Caliph/Prophet Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908. The present day is his fifth caliph Mirza Masroor Ahmad.
Regards

 Post #59
  1. Paarsurrey wrote:

    I agree with you.
    Regards

    Post #60
  2. Paarsurrey wrote:

    I have checked all such places in Quran, all such places are clear in the context verses.
    Muhammad was indeed opposed to violence and war.
    Regards

Skepticism and Free Thought work both ways

September 1, 2015

<www.religiousforums.com>Thread:”Militant Atheism”

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Post #268

Very good points, I appreciate the post.
Regards


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