A peaceful man that Muhammad was

 

Hi 

The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation mostly because of the mislead Mullah/clergy that serves the purpose of rulers have been given to understand that Islam is a religion of violence, converting others by sword and punishing those who leave Islam by killing them. This suited the rulers as also the clergy for keeping the public subjugated. But this has been the religion of the establishment that may be called as MullahIslam or MullahShariah; this has nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad.

Under this thread I intend to uncover the yet hidden face of true Islam as I understand from Quran and the life of Muhammad, both are open books, no mystery. The true face of peaceful and human loving Muhammad and his religion Islam which is truly speaking moral and peaceful, is very close to the present day concepts as would be seen here.The first forty years i.e. before Muhammad was appointed ProphetMessenger by GodAllahYHWH has been offered as a reasonable argument/challenge in Quran before Infidels-of-Mecca, and they could not deny its truthfulness.

Muhammad had a marvelous record of a peace loving person for 40+13+2=55 years, he joined in welfare activities if there was any inMecca, he helped the needy and in distress, he stood for the human cause, he never harmed any person. His record in these 55 years is clean by any standards.

 

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

27 Responses to “A peaceful man that Muhammad was”

  1. modelbill Says:

    In light of what you’ve written above how do you respond to the following found on http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/025-Muhammads-sex-life.htm ?

    Question:
    Was Islam’s “perfect man” sexually restrained?

    Summary Answer:
    Muhammad had sex with just about anyone he pleased, thanks to Allah’s remarkable interest in his personal sex life.

    Muhammad was married to eleven women at one time, relegating them to either consecutive days or (according to some accounts) all in one night. He married a 9-year-old girl and even his adopted son’s wife. On top of that Muhammad had a multitude of slave girls and concubines with whom he had sex – sometimes on the very days in which they had watched their husbands and fathers die at the hands of his own armies.

    So, by any realistic measure, the creator of the world’s most sexually restrictive religion was also one of the most sexually indulgent characters in history.

    The Qur’an:
    Allah managed to hand down quite a few “revelations” that sanctioned Muhammad’s personal pursuit of sex to the doubters around him. Interestingly they have become part of the the eternal, infallible word of the Qur’an, to be memorized by generations of Muslims for whom they have no possible relevance.

    Sura (33:37) – “But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah’s command shall be performed.” No doubt millions of young Muslims, trying to outdo one another at memorizing the Qur’an, have wondered about what this verse means and why it is there. In fact, this is a “revelation” of convenience that Allah just happened to hand down at a time when Muhammad lusted after his daughter-in-law, Zaynab, – a state of affairs that disturbed local customs. The verse “commands” Muhammad to marry the woman (following her husband’s gracious divorce). As for why this should be part of the eternal word of God…?

    Sura (33:50) – “O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her– specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; ” This is another special command that Muhammad handed down to himself that allows virtually unlimited sex, divinely sanctioned by Allah. One assumes that this “revelation” was meant to assuage some sort of disgruntlement in the community over Muhammad’s hedonism.

    Sura (33:51) – “You may put off whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased” Muhammad may sleep with whichever wife he wishes without having to hear the others complain… as revealed in Allah’s literal and perfect words to more than a billion Muslims.

    Sura (66:1-5) – “O Prophet! Why ban thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives?…” Another remarkable verse of sexual convenience concerns an episode in which Muhammad’s wives were jealous of the attention that he was giving to a Christian slave girl. But, as he pointed out to them, to neglect the sexual availability of his slaves was against Allah’s will for his life!

    Sura (4:24) – “And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.” Allah even permitted Muhammad and his men to have sex with married slaves, such as those captured in battle.

    From the Hadith:

    Muslim (8:3309) – Muhammad married Aisha at the age of nine.

    Bukhari (62:18) – Aisha’s father, Abu Bakr, wasn’t on board at first, but Muhammad explained how the rules of their religion made it possible. This is similar to the way that present-day cult leaders manipulate their followers into similar concessions.

    Muslim (8:3311) – The girl took her dolls with her to Muhammad’s house (something to play with when the “prophet” was not having sex with her).

    Bukhari (6:298) – Muhammad would take a bath with the little girl and fondle her.

    Muslim (8:3460) – “Why didn’t you marry a young girl so that you could sport with her and she could sport with you, or you could amuse with her and she could amuse with you?” Muhammad posed this question to one of his followers who had married an “older woman” instead.

    Bukhari (4:232) – Muhammad’s wives would wash semen stains out of his clothes, which were still wet from the spot-cleaning even when he went to the mosque for prayers. Between copulation and prayer, it’s a wonder he found the time to slay pagans.

    Bukhari (6:300) – Muhammad’s wives had to be available for the prophet’s fondling even when they were having their menstrual period.

    Bukhari (62:6) – “The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives.” Muhammad also said that it was impossible to treat all wives equally – and it isn’t hard to guess why.

    Bukhari (5:268) – “The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number.” I asked Anas, ‘Had the Prophet the strength for it?’ Anas replied, ‘We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty men.’ ”

    Additional Notes:

    Muhammad’s sexual antics are an embarrassment to those Muslims who are aware of them. This is particularly so for their prophet’s marriage to Aisha when she was 9-years-old. The thought of a 52-year-old man sleeping and bathing with a young girl is intensely unpleasant and it reflects the disgusting character of a sexual glutton rather than a holy man. Critics even allege that Muhammad was a pedophile.

    Some Muslims respond by denying the hadith itself, which is a mistake. The accounts of Muhammad sleeping with a 9-year-old are no less reliable than those on which the five pillars of Islam are based. They have been an accepted part of tradition and did not become controversial until social mores began to change in the modern age.

    The charge of pedophilia may or may not be true, depending on how it is defined. Technically, Muhammad did have a sexual relationship with a child, but Aisha was also the youngest of his twelve wives. Zaynab was in her 30’s when she attracted the unquenchable lust of the prophet. We don’t know the age of Muhammad’s sex slaves. They may or may not have been as young as Aisha, but there is no point in speculating.

    Prior to the medical advances of the last century, marriage occurred at a much younger age across all societies. When life expectancy was in the mid 20’s (or lower), it made no sense to wait until 19 before having children. Otherwise, one ran the risk of not being around to raise them. In short, childhood (as we know it) was abbreviated by the reality of the times.

    Another strong piece of evidence against Muhammad being a pedophile is that, according to the same Hadith, he waited from the time Aisha was six (when the marriage ceremony took place) until she turned nine to consummate the relationship. Although the text doesn’t say why, in all probability it was because he was waiting for her to begin menstrual cycles – thus entering into “womanhood.” It is unlikely that a pedophile would be concerned about this.

    On the other hand, Muhammad passed down revelations from Allah that clearly condoned sleeping with underage girls, even by the standard of puberty. Sura (65:4) lays down rules for divorce, one of them being that a waiting period of three months is established to determine that the woman is not pregnant. But the same rule applies to “those too who have not had their courses,” meaning girls who have not begun to menstruate. (In our opinion, this would have been a great time for Allah to have said something else instead like, “a real man is one who marries a real woman”… but that’s just us).

    Thanks to Muhammad’s extremely poor judgment (at best) and explicit approval of pedophilia, sex with children became deeply ingrained in the Islamic tradition. For many centuries, Muslim armies would purge Christian and Hindu peasant villages of their menfolk and send the women and children to harems and the thriving child sex slave markets deep in the Islamic world. The Ayatollah Khomeini, who married a 12-year-old girl, even gave his consent to using infants for sexual pleasure (although warning against full penetration until the baby is a few years older).

    Muhammad’s pursuit of Zaynab, the wife of his adopted son is almost as tough for Muslims to explain. This is because it not only raises the same question of moral character, but also casts suspicion on whether his so-called prophecies were really divine revelation or dictates of personal convenience. According to one biographer, even Aisha appears to be somewhat doubtful of Muhammad’s claim that Allah commanded him to marry Zaynab, wryly remarking, “Truly Allah seems to be very quick in fulfilling your prayers.”

    So controversial was Muhammad’s desire to marry his adopted son’s wife that he had to justify it with a stern pronouncement on the very institution of adoption, which has had tragic consequences to this day. Suras (33:4-5) are widely interpreted to imply that Islam is against adoption, meaning that an untold number of children in the Islamic world have been needlessly orphaned – all because Muhammad’s lustful desires for a married woman went beyond even what six other wives (at the time) and a multitude of slaves could satisfy.

    Some Muslims deny that Muhammad was married to more than four women at a time, merely on the basis that the Qur’an only gives permission for marrying four. Unfortunately, Muslims historians disagree. Only one of Muhammad’s last eleven wives died before him (Zaynab bint Khuzayma). The rest outlived him by many years.

    Muhammad forbade his ten widows from remarrying, even making sure that this “divine” order was forever preserved in the eternal word of Allah – Sura (33:53). To add insult to injury, they were all summarily disinherited from Muhammad’s estate by his successor (courtesy of another divine order “given” to Abu Bakr from Allah).

    In summary, Islam’s holiest texts portray Muhammad not as a perfect man, but as a sexual hedonist. Not only did he become fat from indulging in food, but his pursuit of sex was no less gluttonous. On top of it all, he used personal “revelations” from Allah to justify his debauchery to the gullible masses which, to this day, continue to be venerated and memorized as if they are the holiest of utterances.

    TheReligionofPeace.com Home Page

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  2. paarsurrey Says:

    Hi friend modelbill,

    I would have pleased to reply your own comments on my essay. The link mentioned by you is not related to the topic of my post even. If you don’t have your opinion on the subject; you may ask one of the persons who run the website to make any specific comments related to the topic for a meaningful discussion.

    I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  3. modelbill Says:

    The point is: if this is true then Mohammed and anything he ever said or wrote has absolutely no credibility, especially when it contradicts scripture that I hold true. He seems to have done exactly what Constantine did… corrupted the true faith and invented his own religion for his own selfish, sinful purposes. The question is, do you have a love for the truth? Are you willing to do what I’ve done… look at your religion with an outside unbiased perspective and rely on our Father YHWH to reveal what is and is not true?

  4. paarsurrey Says:

    Hi friend modelbill,

    You are most welcome to comment, but you please select one argument from the article which you think is the most strong one from you stand point. We will discuss that, and perhaps you would be satisfied with the answer from me. If you are not satisfied then you may switch over to the next one , so on and so forth.

    You may form you own argument if you so like.

    I love the real Jesus and Mary of Quran not the mythical ones presented by clever Paul and his Church.

    Thanks

  5. modelbill Says:

    Shalom paarsurrey,

    Please understand, paarsurrey, I’m not trying to convince you of anything, as you cannot convince me of anything… that is the job of our Father YHWH through His spirit. What each of must do is to be honest with ourselves… are we listening to Him or to the teachings of men. I’m endeavoring to be honest with myself about what I was raised in and listen to the truth about it from my Father. I encourage you to do the same. What He has convinced me of is that His messiah is Yahshua (not Jesus), that He has made Yahshua the supreme authority over all creation (as Joseph was under Pharoah in Egypt), and that Yahshua is the mediator of His covenant (Jer.31:32-33) which is being placed in the minds and hearts of those accepting His messiah, who now sits at His right hand and will return to establish His kingdom on Earth.

    What He has not convinced me of is that I need to be concerned with anything Mohammed said or did in relation to the above paragraph since he did not nor do the ones following him partake of the Father’s covenant (which neither does mainstream christianity). Each group does not recognize Yahshua for who he is, the prophesied messiah who is prophet, priest and king. They will acknowledge one or two of these but not all three. The Father will allow in His kingdom only those who keep His commandments (covenant) and bear witness to His messiah Yahshua.
    There are two mind-sets in the world… one that leads to the Father and His ways and one that leads away from the Father and His ways. The true messiah Yahshua leads one to the Father and His ways. Anything else is anti-messiah (anti-christ). Ask our Father about what I’ve written here. If you’re sincere He will answer.

  6. paarsurrey Says:

    Modelbill says: What He has convinced me of is that His messiah is Yahshua (not Jesus), that He has made Yahshua the supreme authority over all creation.

    Paarsurrey says:

    Hi friend Modelbill,

    GodAllahYHWH never relinquished his power to Yahshua. Yahshua was a poor man, if he had had any power, the Jews would not have dragged him on to the Cross. The poor man fervently prayed to GodAllahYHWH to save his life; and GodAllahYHWH heard his prayers and saved his life. Yahshua later died a natural and respectful death in India. It is wrong to make a helpless poor man a god. I think you are mistaken.

    I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran not the mythical ones presented by Paul and his Church.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  7. modelbill Says:

    Shalom Paarsurrey,

    Yahshua did not pray to YHWH to “save his life”. He prayed that “if there be another way, then take this cup from me, but YOUR will, not mine, be done”. He knew the cup from which he was to drink would be a torturous one. He was human not a god… who would want that if there was an alternative that would accomplish the same purpose. The purpose that he accomplished is what you don’t understand and possibly you don’t want to understand. Most who say they do understand it really do not. One must have an understanding firstly of what sin is and how it is atoned for or how it is forgiven by our Father. Sin is disobedience to the Father’s torah (teaching and instructions given through Moses and magnified by Yahshua as prophesied – not Muhammed). Sin is atoned for by the shedding of innocent blood. The Father’s purpose was and is to have a people who would be as Yahshua, spotless and without blemish, a nation of priest to serve and worship Him, begotten children through resurrection. The temple sacrificial system of atonement mediated through Moses was (like all of scripture) a physical to spiritual parallel. It was a temporary solution that pointed to the permanent/eternal solution.

    This is what most do not understand: the blood of atonement covers ONLY unwillful, ignorant sin. Deliberate, willful sin is only forgiven through sincere, sorrowful confession and repentance to YHWH. So if you refuse what Yahshua did, you have no suitable atonement/sacrifice for the sin you don’t even realize you’re commiting. That’s what the Day Of Atonement was about, taking care of ignorant sin. That’s what Yahshua has accomplished once and for all. He had to… there’s not been a temple for 2000 years… that system has been replaced. The penalty for sin is death, first physical then spiritual, regardless of whether it’s willful or not. In the Father’s eyes sin is sin.

  8. modelbill Says:

    Just to address some of your earlier response: I did not say that our Father YHWH relinquished ANYTHING. You left out the rest of what I wrote “(as Joseph was under Pharoah in Egypt)”. To give a faithful servant authority is not relinquishing anything. And I have already commented elsewhere my opinion of your belief of Yahshua going to India as a pagan myth. And saying that I have made Yahshua god does not reflect what I have written. The position that Yahshua has now in Heaven that I wrote about above refers to divinity (heavenly things) not deity (there is only one deity, our Father YHWH). That’s where much confusion comes from, people not understanding the difference.

  9. paarsurrey Says:

    Hi friend modelbill.

    First reply

    I think yours is perhaps a confused statement. You say,”He (Jesus) was human not a god”; If you stick to it and accept Jesus was only a human and never a god. Then it would be a straightforward statement from you.

    Kindly confirm it.

    1. Was Jesus from the time he prayed in Gethsemane to the time he was delivered from the Cross, he was just a human being and not a god?
    2. If yes, kindly be sure that he was never a god before he prayed in Gethsemane, from the time of Genesis.
    3. Even after he was delivered from the Cross , he never ever became a god .

    Please confirm it; you may take help from your friends, or they may themselves comment it here. Please don’t feel embarrassed, as this is only a discussion, not a debate; no compulsion whatsoever.

    I love the Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran not the mythical ones presented by clever Paul.

    Thanks

  10. paarsurrey Says:

    Second reply:

    Quote: Yahshua did not pray to YHWH to “save his life”. He prayed that “if there be another way, then take this cup from me, but YOUR will, not mine, be done”. Unquote

    Hi friend modelbill.

    I don’t agree with you. God’s must have done as God willed, whether Jesus wanted it or not. Just tell, me, if Jesus would have not said ‘YOUR will, not mine, be done” and God would have done what God had wanted, what was the other option for Jesus; absolute no, in my opinion. They say beggars have no choices; Jesus was in fact begging before God to save his life; Jesus had absolutely no other option. Jesus was praying from God and God accepted his prayers to save Jesus a cursed death on cross, which would have proven him a false Messenger Prophet as per Deuteronomy:

    Please also note that the true disciples of Jesus were those who joined him in his journey towards India from Galilee and not those who had been disloyal to him and fled from the scene of Crucifixion of Jesus, at the hour of need; and Paul was but an enemy of Jesus and his friends, he mislead the followers of Jesus from Jesus’ acts and teachings.

    Thanks

  11. paarsurrey Says:

    Hi friend modelbill

    Third reply from Second Coming 1835-1908

    Jesus in India Page 30-31

    Among the testimonies which show that Jesus (peace be on him) was saved from the Cross is the one narrated in Matthew, chapter 26, verses 36 to 46, which relate that after getting information, through revelation, of his impending arrest, Jesus prayed to God all night, on his face, and in tears, and such prayer offered with such humility, and for which Jesus had ample time, could not go unaccepted; for the cry of an elect of God, addressed at a time of distress, is never turned down. How was it then, that the prayer of Jesus which he had addressed all night with a painful heart and in a state of distress was rejected?

    Jesus had said: The Father who is in heaven listens to me. Therefore, when his prayer addressed in such a state of distress was not heard, how can it be said that God heard his prayers? The gospels also show that Jesus (peace be on him) was certain at heart that his prayer had been accepted; he had great confidence in that prayer.

    That is why when he was arrested and put on the Cross, and when he found the circumstances not according to his expectations, he involuntarily cried ‘Eli, Eli lama sabachthani’, meaning, ‘My God, my God why hast Thou forsaken me.’, i.e., he did not expect that it would come to this — that he would die on the Cross. He believed that his prayer would be heard.

    So, both these references to the gospel show that Jesus firmly believed that his prayer would be heard and accepted, that his tearful supplications addressed throughout the night would not be wasted, whereas he had himself taught his disciples, on divine authority: When you pray, the prayer will be accepted.

    Further, he had also narrated the parable of the judge who feared neither man nor God. The purpose of this parable was that the disciples should realise that God undoubtedly answered prayers. Although Jesus knew from God that there was a great affliction in store for him, yet, like all righteous persons, he prayed to God, believing that there was nothing impossible for God and that God determined whether any events would happen or not.

    Therefore, the rejection of Jesus’ own prayer would have shaken the faith of the disciples. Was it possible to place before the disciples an example destructive of their faith?

    If they had seen with their own eyes that the prayer of a great prophet like Jesus, addressed all night with burning passion, was not accepted, the unfortunate example would have been very trying for their faith.

    Therefore, the Merciful God could not but have accepted this prayer. It is certain the prayer offered at Gethsemane was accepted.

    http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

    It is very clear from the above that Jesus did pray to God to save his life. God heard his prayers, accepted them and saved him a cursed death on a Cross, that proveds that Jesus was a truthful Messenger of God Allah YHWH and was not a false one. The Christian stance proves him otherwise.

    I love Jesus

    Thanks

  12. modelbill Says:

    Once we are of age, each of us has a choice, even “beggars”. Yahshua had a choice. He said, “17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”(John 10). He chose to be obedient to the Father to be the lamb of atonement that would accomplish the Father’s purpose, which I wrote about above. One is convinced of this being true only through spiritual discernment. John the baptiser said, “35The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”(John 3). You reject this and that is your choice. As I wrote earlier, I cannot convince you of anything, I can only give testimony to the truth that’s been revealed to me. Perhaps it is not your time. “Many are called but few are chosen”.

  13. paarsurrey Says:

    Hi friend modelbill,

    Jesus did not write anything; he did not dicatate anything, he did no authenticate anything written by sombody else, he never authorized any body to write on his behalf .

    So what John wrote about Jesus might not be a true account of Jesus.John was supposed to be a sinful person, apt to make mistakes and sins, so if John says anything about Jesus that might not have ever happened to Jesus.

    Kindly quote from Jesus.

    I respect your religion.

    I love the Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran not the mythical ones presented by clever Paul and his Church

    Thanks

  14. modelbill Says:

    Shalom paarsurrey,

    I did not see Muhammed write the Koran. That must mean someone else did. It was probably a pagan enemy who fabricated the whole thing as a means to cause world chaos.

    Or,

    All we have is Muhammed’s word that he was hearing Allah. Maybe he was hearing Satan (actually he does admit that conerning some verses). Maybe he just made the whole thing up. Maybe there was no Muhammed at all, someone just made him up, after all I’ve never seen any video of him.

    Kindly provide unequivocal proof to me that these senarios are wrong.

    So you see, paarsurrey, we are both making ridiculous statements. Matters of faith cannot be proven or disproven by fleshly arguments, they are matters of spiritual discernment. The question is: what spirit leads you? Is it the spirit (mentality) of the true Messiah Yahshua or the spirit of the anti-messiah?

  15. paarsurrey Says:

    Salam friend modelbill,

    Quote from your above post:

    Matters of faith cannot be proven or disproven by fleshly arguments; they are matters of spiritual discernment.

    Unquote

    First I would requests you to mention frankly as to what is your denomination in Christianity or in Judaism. This could help us understand each other’s stand point clearly. Please feel free to express it in few words, in you may.

    As we understand from Quran, Jesus and his mother were valiant and straightforward persons in character like that of Moses and his mother. They were not under any pressure or duress of the Jews. Jesus was a man of wisdom also. Jesus’ divinity if any, which can never be proved from Quran; never needed any spoon feeding to make stealthily expressions as to the claim of divinity from the so called disciples or any first century Christian that be. If Jesus makes straightforward statements supported by rational and logical arguments; then it is acceptable to me an Ahmadi Muslim, though it won’t be from Quran, yet it would match with Jesus valiant character and his wisdom.

    I think it would also acceptable to the new generation of Americans in particular and people in the West in general. It would also match the psyche of the people of the present era whether in the West or in the East. A redundant Jesus would come to limelight again and the fleeing faithful revert to their lost faith as noted by cathnewsusa, in my opinion.

    This is a via-media or middle way approach to bridge the gap between Christian and the Muslims for the world peace.

    I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Moses and his mother.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  16. modelbill Says:

    The monotheistic messianic faith to which I hold, the “true faith” of Yahshua and in Yahshua, is not compatible with conventional Christianity nor Islam. They cannot all be correct. The truth is revealed by our Father YHWH to those who have a love for the truth. It is not found through “logic” or philosophy, which are the self-efforts and teachings of men. Those who do not have a love for the truth He gives a spirit (mentality) of delusion so that they do not come into the truth. Pray to our Father that He will grant you repentance (a change in mentality) so that you may begin to spiritually “see and hear” the truth.

  17. paarsurrey Says:

    Quote:
    The truth is revealed by our Father YHWH to those who have a love for the truth. It is not found through “logic” or philosophy, which are the self-efforts and teachings of men.
    Unquote

    Hi friend modelbill,

    How would you define the word “revealed” in your post? Do you think that God Allah YHWH revealed something to Moses and Jesus?

    Since you do not believe in logic and or philosophy; kindly mention; did the original revelation reached you and in what form? Secure or changed version; you know translations or transliterations are never exactly as the original.

    How would you define inspiration vis-à-vis revelation?

    Do you think that your faith is illogical, irrational, unreasonable and unwise or since it is not research oriented so it injures your fragile faith?

    A blind faith is no faith, in my opinion. Do you agree with it?

    I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Jonah and Noah

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  18. modelbill Says:

    I would define “revealed” simply as revelation from a spiritual source outside yourself. Revelation from YHWH is truth. It will always change you (your thinking) for the better, enable you to walk in His ways more correctly and faithfully, and give you peace in place of inner conflict and pain. Revelation from Satan is un-true, will lead you away from YHWH’s righteousness, and add to your inner conflict and pain.

    We can logically or cognitively know something is true but our emotional state at any given time will reveal what we really believe inside. We can know logically what the scripture says that “YHWH will supply all of our needs” and we say we believe that. But what do we do when our house burns down or we lose our job or some other tragedy strikes. Our emotional state at that moment reveals what we really believe to be true. If we have peace and calm, then the truth of the scripture has been revealed to us at some point so that we have “ownership” of that truth. But, if we are in a panic, wringing our hands feeling hopeless and helpless, then that truth of scripture has not been revealed to us, it is not true for us and does us no good at all spiritually. The “truth” that we believe at that moment is that all is lost, there is no hope, and there is no help for us. We cannot convince ourselves logically to “believe” the truth of scripture at that moment. It is only when we “experience” YHWH’s mercy and miraculous mind-healing provision for us that we can own that truth, not of our own doing, but His alone.
    I believe He accomplishes this through His Messiah Yahshua who said the peace he gives is not like the peace the world gives.

    I believe inspiration comes from living an obedient life to YHWH as one seeks to walk in His truth, for example inspired praise and worship to YHWH. I rely on my Master Yahshua the Messiah to teach me. I listen to him. His sheep hear his voice.

    The true faith seems to those without spiritual discernment to be illogical, irrational, unreasonable and unwise.

    I believe that blind faith means one is relying on what someone else says, not on revealed truth. It is for the spiritually blind. They will fall into the ditch along with their “blind” guides.

    I admonish you once again to be honest with yourself in this question: what spirit leads you? Is it the spirit of the true Messiah Yahshua or the spirit of the anti-messiah?

  19. paarsurrey Says:

    Hi friend modelbill

    In Quranic terms Wahee or Revelation is conversation with God Allah YHWH like two friends talks with one another. The words friend A hears clearly are from the friend B and are external and belong to the friend B. These are not generated within the person named A talking with his friend named B. Since the conversation is between the two definite friends, it does not require the presence or witnessing of any third person or any other persons whatsoever.

    The Wahee or Revelation from God Allah YHWH could be understood from the following verses in Quran:

    [42:52] ۞ وَمَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَن يُكَلِّمَهُ ٱللَّهُ إِلَّا وَحۡيًا أَوۡ مِن وَرَآىِٕ حِجَابٍ أَوۡ يُرۡسِلَ رَسُولاً۬ فَيُوحِىَ بِإِذۡنِهِۦ مَا يَشَآءُ‌ۚ إِنَّهُ ۥ عَلِىٌّ حَڪِيمٌ۬
    [42:52] And it is not for a man that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a veil or by sending a messenger to reveal by His command what He pleases. Surely, He is High, Wise.

    [42:53] وَكَذَٲلِكَ أَوۡحَيۡنَآ إِلَيۡكَ رُوحً۬ا مِّنۡ أَمۡرِنَا‌ۚ مَا كُنتَ تَدۡرِى مَا ٱلۡكِتَـٰبُ وَلَا ٱلۡإِيمَـٰنُ وَلَـٰكِن جَعَلۡنَـٰهُ نُورً۬ا نَّہۡدِى بِهِۦ مَن نَّشَآءُ مِنۡ عِبَادِنَا‌ۚ وَإِنَّكَ لَتَہۡدِىٓ إِلَىٰ صِرَٲطٍ۬ مُّسۡتَقِيمٍ۬
    [42:53] And thus have We revealed to thee the Word by Our command. Thou didst not know what the Book was, nor what the faith. But We have made it (the revelation) a light, whereby We guide such of Our servants as We please. And truly, thou guidest mankind to the right path,

    [42:54] صِرَٲطِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّذِى لَهُ ۥ مَا فِى ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٲتِ وَمَا فِى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ‌ۗ أَلَآ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ تَصِيرُ ٱلۡأُمُورُ
    [42:54] The path of Allah, to Whom belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. Behold! to Allah do all things return.

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=42&verse=51

    Do you think you ever had a revelation from God Allah YHWH or from JesusMessiahYahshua, if you think he was a god, in the terms stated above?

    This is important so that we can understand each other clearly.

    I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Moses and his mother who all were selected by God Allah YHWH for a conversation with them.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  20. modelbill Says:

    Each of us, who has not hardened his heart, should have received a revelation from YHWH, that being a conviction for being a sinner (one who has broken YHWH’s commandments) in need of forgiveness and salvation from the death penalty for sin. You have yet to answer my question to you.

  21. paarsurrey Says:

    Hi friend modelbill,

    You mean your following question.

    Quote

    I admonish you once again to be honest with yourself in this question: what spirit leads you? Is it the spirit of the true Messiah Yahshua or the spirit of the anti-messiah?

    Unquote

    Friend! I told you that according to the word “Revelation” as defined by Quran the Monotheistic Messianic don’t have anything with them revealed on Jesus; only Quran tells us as to what was revealed on Jesus.

    According to the definition of Quran; Word of God Allah YHWH has been revealed and angels also visited to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah and Second Coming 1835-1908. I follow him.

    I don’t have any personal experience of revelation or inspiration or visitation of angels myself. I am no scholar I admit. I am only an ordinary man in the street searching and researching for truth. My tools are to understand the revelations of God Allah YHWH with rational, reasonable and logical arguments which have been gifted by God Allah YHWH.

    I think that helps
    .
    I love Jesus and Mary as I do love John the Baptist and his mother.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  22. modelbill Says:

    Shalom paarsurrey,

    I am glad to see that you consider yourself an humble man who is “searching and researching for truth”. I want to encourage you to continue on that path, diligently “seeking and knocking”, to have a hunger and thirst for our Father’s righteousness. Master Yahshua said to “diligently seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you”. My hope for you is that our Father YHWH will richly bless you with discernment and revelation of His truth. Humble yourself before Him in prayer and meditation and ask Him what is His perspective of Yahshua, and then listen for what comes into your mind.

    So, help me to understand, how can you be sure of the things you said above concerning this Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, or even that Muhammed was a true prophet, or that the Quran is reliable, since you are trying to understand through your own efforts?

    Also, please help me to understand, what is your belief about sin, how do you define it and how is it forgiven?

    • paarsurrey Says:

      Hi friend modelbill

      In my opinion the sins are forgiven by GodAllahYHWH. When a sinner repents over his mistakes, asks forgiveness from GodAllahYHWH and resolves not to do it again. If God forgives the sins then it is as if no sins were committed altogether.

      This is established from OTBible, Moses and Jesus. Quran also spports it and confirms it:

      [39:54] Say, ‘O My servants who have sinned against their souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah, surely, Allah forgives all sins. Verily, He is Most forgiving, Ever Merciful;
      [39:55] ‘And turn to your Lord, and submit yourselves to Him, before there comes unto you the punishment; for then you shall not be helped;
      [39:56] And follow the best Teaching that has been revealed to you from your Lord, before the punishment comes upon you suddenly, while you perceive not.’
      [39:57] Lest a soul should say, ‘O woe is me in that I neglected my duty in respect of Allah! Surely, I was among the scoffers.’

      http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=39&verse=49

      In my opinion all temporal, moral and spiritual acts done by a human being against the express commandments of God Allah YHWH are sinful.

      It was Paul who invented his theological philosophy that sins are forgiven by Jesus death on Cross ; which has nothing to do with OTBible or Moses, Jesus ,Quran and Muhammad. Jesus did not die on Cross hence this opinion of sinful Paul becomes meaningless.

      I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

    • paarsurrey Says:

      Modelbill says:

      So, help me to understand, how you can be sure of the things you said above concerning this Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, or even that Muhammad was a true prophet, or that the Quran is reliable.

      Paarsurrey says:

      To make you to understand my viewpoint better, I would like ot ask you; How do you know that Moses, Jonah and John the Baptist were true Messengers Prophets of God Allah YHWH?

      Also please tell me as to how you consider Bible (OT and NT) as reliable Revealed Books?

      Thanks

      I love Moses, Jonah and John the Baptist.

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  23. sch Says:

    it would happen that Mohammed would justify his sexual pervertedness. to marry 9 year olds is unacceptable, and that is why we have a religion (Man Made) worshipping a man more than God. then again do they worship the true God? one wonders

  24. wudjab Says:

    paarsurrey,

    When can we see some of this evidence of the ‘peaceful nature of mohammed’ ?

    I’m sure you’ll take the time to cover the battle of the trench in your dissertation ?

    Take your time, it’s only 12 months since you opened this post promising to give us this information.

  25. wudjab Says:

    sch,

    You have it wrong. Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6 years old (after seeing her playing with her dolls.) He had sex with her when she turned 9.

    But remember, mohammed is supposed to be the most perfect man who ever lived, worthy of emulation by all.

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