Direct “Word of G-d” is prefaced by the word “say”

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/quotes-series-from-quran-authored-by-g-d-not-by-muhammad.227090/page-6#post-6402649

#108paarsurrey

xshuxxxxxxxxxxx-A Bahai friend said: ↑

If this is the case the Quran is not the only scripture inspired by God.

xxxxxx- A Christian friend said: ↑

I believe I agree that it is inspired by God but not a direct word. Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word “say.”

“Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word “say.” ”

There are many a verse in Quran that preface the word “say” or the Arabic word “قُلۡ” one such verse is :

[17:82]وَ قُلۡ جَآءَ الۡحَقُّ وَ زَہَقَ الۡبَاطِلُ ؕ اِنَّ الۡبَاطِلَ کَانَ زَہُوۡقًا ﴿۸۲﴾
And say, ‘Truth has come and falsehood has vanished away. Falsehood does indeed vanish away fast.’
The Holy Quran – Chapter: 17: Bani Isra’il

Friend @xxxxx
Doesn’t it prove that Quran is authored by G-d and not authored by Muhammad,please?

Friend @xxxxxxx
I have read “Kitab-i-Iqan” or the “Book of Certitude” from cover to cover .
“it is” the “primary theological work” of Bahaullah. “The work was composed partly in Persian and partly in Arabic by Bahá’u’lláh“:
Kitáb-i-Íqán – Wikipedia
I have read it in Persian/Farsi, and Arabic and in English. I didn’t find any sentence in it from G-d which is prefaced by the word “say” or the Arabic word “قُلۡ”. Did I miss to note it please?

Regards
____________
Furhter the Bahá’í Reference Library Writings of Bahá’u’lláh mentions,
“The Kitáb-i-Íqán – The Book of Certitude.
A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi and first published in English in 1931.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library
So even the publishers Bahá’í Reference Library testify that it is not Word from G-d. Right, please?

Attributes of G-d uniquely manifested in the Word of G-d and the Work of G-d

Feel free to view ,comment and join discussion on< www.religiousforums.com > under the topic <Your best argument that god exists>.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/your-best-argument-that-god-exists.176665/page-10#post-4286889

Post #188

paarsurrey said: ↑

I don’t agree with you.

The attributes are at work in the Universe/s since inception hence it is good and valid argument.
I am not convincing anybody per force and I don’t have to.

psychoslice said: ↑

But with a good imagination you can place any attributes onto it, it means nothing, well at least not a god.

Paarsurrey wrote:

One attribute of G-d is mentioned in Quran (the secure and pristine Word of G-d) as Ahad one meaning of which is unique. Most (some may say that all ) big objects in the Universe (the Work of G-d) are round in shape or or tend to be round or a circle expressing in a way that as to Who have shaped them.

The Work of G-d and the Word of G-d thus correspond with one another.

Such are the attributes of G-d uniquely manifested in the Converse and the nature.

Is imitation of the same possible? I don’t think so.

Regards

The act of Abraham sacrificing his son Ishmael never happened in literal and real terms

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/christian-logic/comment-page-1/#comment-15325

PAARSURREY says:

May 11, 2014 at 7:40 pm
@MAKAGUTU says:May 11, 2014 at 7:02 pm
“Paarsurrey, in the bible, it is recorded that Abe was asked by god to sacrifice his son. By your comment can we say that this retelling of the narrative is not factual or what is your stand?” Unquote

Bible is neither authored by Abraham nor by Moses. Its different books have been authored by anonymous narrators and the scribes. It is not the original Word of God in the original language revealed.

Dreams and visions are always or most often interpret-able.

It only meant that Abraham and his offspring shall have to face hardships in the path of God (Allah Yahweh Tao) and would have to devout their lives; in service of the humanity for its ethical, moral and spiritual uplift.

Abraham and Ishmael were sure about it from their experience with the One-True-God; they knew that the He won’t let them accomplish an unreasonable act; and would bring out reasonable solution of the matter.

And the act of Abraham sacrificing his son Ishmael never happened in literal and real terms.

Abraham and his progeny did devote their lives to the cause of religion and that is how it took place in real terms; and that is what one should focus on.

The matter of as to how to interpret such dreams and visions was settled for all times.

Regards

Science and Religion both essential for living normal life on the planet Earth

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/hermeneutics-2/comment-page-1/#comment-13351

PAARSURREY says:
March 21, 2014 at 12:03 pm

@MYATHEISTLIFE says: March 21, 2014 at 6:29 am

“It occurs to me that this subject is about how the believer chooses their own morality over the dictated word of their deity. When there is a right and wrong way to interpret the text it is by definition not a perfect text and cannot be seen to contain perfect or objective morality.”

Interpretation is done by both Religion and the Science.
The experiments are made on the basis of the availability of certain data at a certain point of time and the results are interpreted and are accepted within a certain range of accuracy; and there is an implied condition always with the results “if other things remain unchanged” (since everything is moving, so other things don’t remain unchanged); the ultimate check of the results is with the Nature- the Work of God. If there is an anomaly detected subsequently in nature with the result of the experiments; then new hypothesis/theory is made and new experiments are made to remove the anomaly.
The same way in Religion; as we advance/change in time and place; the previous interpretation/understanding does not remain valid simply because our understanding, though previously it was thought to be correct; but due to the change of time and place an anomaly is detected; when more thought was applied on the original text of the Word revealed one gets to know the mistake of previous interpretation/understanding; it was not the fault of the Word of God, so to make a new and correct interpretation/understanding becomes necessary.

Science/Nature is the Work of God and religion is from the Word of God; both belong to the same source of One-True-God (Allah Yahweh Ahura-Mazda Parmeshawara Eshawara); both work in different domains for benefit of the humanity; both are complementary to one another and never contradict one another if correctly interpreted.

Science works in the physical and material domains; religion is for guidance of the humanity in the even more sophisticated and intricate issued of ethical, moral and spiritual realms; nevertheless both are essential for living normal life in this planet Earth, peacefully.

Let us see below what Wikipedia says on the usage of interpretation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretation

Interpretation

Philosophy[edit]
• Interpretation (philosophy), the assignment of meanings to various concepts, symbols, or objects under consideration
• Interpretation (logic), an assignment of meaning to the symbols of a formal language
• De Interpretatione, a work by Aristotle
• Hermeneutics, the study of interpretation theory
• Exegesis, a critical explanation or interpretation of a text
Math, science and computing[edit]
• Interpretation (model theory), a technical notion that approximates the idea of representing a logical structure inside another structure
• Interpreter (computing), a program (a virtual processor) that is able to execute instructions written in a high-level programming language
• Interpretation function, in mathematical logic a function that assigns functions and relations to the symbols of a signature
• Interpretation of quantum mechanics, a set of statements which attempt to explain how quantum mechanics informs our understanding of nature
• Interpreter pattern, a software engineering design pattern
• Left brain interpreter, the post-hoc construction of explanations by the brain’s left hemisphere
• Interpreted language, a programming language that avoidsit program compilation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretation

God Spoke with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; God honored him With His Converse

I have written a post on the following blog of uncleE; the viewers could add their valuable comments here even if they differ.

“Is there a God?”
“How can we know if God exists? Do philosophical arguments help?”

http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/
http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/#comment-8852

paarsurrey
MAR 17, 2014 @ 15:50:55

@Howie :MAR 16, 2014 @ 16:44:54
” you feel you have revelation of the God you believe in”

Paarsurrey replies:

No, I am not honored with Revelation from God; but the book I suggested you to read; its author did have this blessing; and I had personally met with some other persons who had this blessing and did talk with them.

Like science is a tool that explores into nature, the Work of God; Quran is the Word of God that leads to God in religion.

I give a quote below from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908:

“The Speaker (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) is Honored with Divine Converse”

“I would be guilty of doing great wrong to my fellow beings if I were not to declare at this stage that divine bounty has bestowed upon me the status which I have just defined and has honored me with the kind of converse the features of which I have just set out in detail, so that I should bestow sight upon the blind and should guide the seekers of the One Who has been so far lost, and should give to those who accept the truth the good news of that holy fountain of which many speak but which few find.

I wish to assure the listeners that the God, meeting with Whom is the salvation and eternal welfare of man, cannot be found without following the Holy Quran.

Would that the people were to see that which I have seen, and were to hear that which I have heard, and should lay aside mere tales and should run to the truth! The cleansing water which removes all doubt, that mirror through which that Supreme Being can be seen, is converse with the Divine that I have just mentioned. Let him whose soul seeks the truth arise and search.

I tell you truly that if souls are charged with true seeking and hearts develop true thirst; people would search for that way and would seek that path. How can that way be discovered, and how can the intervening veil be removed? I assure all seekers that it is Islam alone which conveys the good news of that path. All other people have since long sealed up divine revelation. Be sure, however, that this seal is not imposed by God, but is an excuse that is put forward by man on account of his privation.

Be sure that as it is not possible that we should be able to see without eyes, or should be able to hear without ears, or should be able to speak without a tongue, in the same way it is not possible that without the help of the Quran we should be able to behold the countenance of the True Beloved. I was young and am now old but I have not encountered anyone who has quaffed the cup of this visible understanding except out of this holy fountain.

Page 206-207

Click to access Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf

Thanks and regards

“Science is a magnificent force, but it is not a teacher of morals.”

Please view Paarsurrey’s comments on the following blog for your valuable opinion:

“Doug’s Dribblings”
“Read Your Civic Biology”

http://dougsdribblings.blogspot.ca/
http://dougsdribblings.blogspot.ca/2014/03/read-your-civic-biology.html?showComment=1394023091068#c7651234377284653128

paarsurrey March 5, 2014 at 7:38 AM
@ Doug B

“Here I have to agree with Bryan: “Science is a magnificent force, but it is not a teacher of morals.” It is for that reason that I feel the scientific worldview alone is not sufficient. At the same time I don’t feel the religious worldview alone will cut it, either.
The truth is: either science or religion can be abused and used to inflict harm. I’m not impressed with those on either side who would downplay the importance of the other. I don’t see why we can’t embrace both.” Unquote

I agree with you that both science and religion can be abused to harm humanity; but it is most truthful that religion and science both are good friends and can be used to benefit humanity the most. There is nothing contradictory in religion and science (based on natural laws) as both are from the same source of One-True-God (Allah Yahweh Ahura-Mazda Parmeshaware Eshaware). Religion is based on the Word of God while science is the Work of God; both embrace happily with one another.

Thanks and regards

Ordinary people should not be overburdened with complex scientific terminology

I write on religious education forum <http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/>.

One may like to view my comments on the topic/thread < define hypothesis, theory, law, evidence>.

(To see the context of a post, please, click the post #; that will take you to the full single view of the post in the forum, and then click the thread topic on the right upper corner, that will take you to the discussion that ensued in the forum.)

Paarsurrey wrote:

#10

I think it is understandable that ordinary people would take definition of the words from an ordinary dictionary; why should they be compelled to use a dictionary with scientific terminology?

#14

The problem comes when the people working in the sciences start singling out the ordinary people as if they are ignorant people unless they well understand the scientific terms; I think it is not an appropriate approach; the ordinary people who are a large mass, they should not be overburdened and disturbed this way. The science is for human life; not that the humans are for science.

Paarsurrey says here:

Since religion and science work in different domains they are complementary and are not contradictory of one another. They need not challenge one another. Religious people try to interpret the Word of the one true creator God while the people involved in research of science interpret the current thoughts of science in the study of laws of Nature; interpretations on both sides are never complete; they are on an ever growing process. Nature is the Work of the one true creator God. The Word of God and Work of God are therefore from the same source.

Instead of undermining one another both sides should try to understand Word of the one true God and the Work of Him.

Galileo’s persecution by the clergy is deplorable

Herein below please view peaceful comments between a friend at the wordpress and me. I publish it as a new post for benefit of others.

Nick T Says:

April 1, 2013 at 10:37 am

http://endoskeptic.com/2013/03/30/astrology-militants-attack-my-blog/

Many thanks for the reblog, very much appreciated and great to know people are enjoying the read. Although, unfortunately, there are many examples throughout history where religious beliefs have directly opposed scientific endeavour; the case of Galileo and the Pope, for example.

But this post wasn’t written to evoke that discussion, but instead ensure that the facts of science are presented in the face of the supernatural belief that the celestial bodies can affect our behaviour; which they can’t!

Thanks again; looking forward to reading some of your writing in the future!

paarsurrey Says:

April 1, 2013 at 12:28 pm

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/3349/

I thank you very much for visiting my blog; also for your comments.

I am of the view that there is no contradiction in Nature- Work of God- that corrects science; and a revealed Religion-Word of God- that depends on the Revelation from the one true creator God.
Coming to your other points:

1. Galileo’s persecution by the Pope was unjust. The pope or his associate clergy do not represent the truthful religion. Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Socrates and Muhammad did not oppose any scientific endeavour or persecute any scientist. The above persons were the direct recipients of Revelation.

The acts of the clergy are wrongs done by man against man and it is sinful and deplorable. It is just like the secular rulers who do wrongs sometimes or often.

2. If a human word spoken can effect changes in the world; then I think Word of God could do much.
If for example, words spoken by the Head of State of America can make changes in the world; Word of the creator God could do much more.

Friendly discussion is always welcome.

Thanks again and regards

NTBible (or Gospels) is neither Word of God nor Word of Jesus

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=91759#p91759

Wootah wrote:

Reason isn’t native to you; is it?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Reason is very natural with me; of course, as our Quran is Word from the Creator- God Allah YHWH, has claims and reason on every topic relating to ethical, moral and spiritual guidance of human beings in it.

The NTBible is neither Word of the Creator -God Allah YHWH, nor of Jesus, so it is naturally bereft of claims and the reasons. The Claims and reason have to be imported invariably from out of the Gospels or just from the imagination. They loan it from the cunning Paul or the clever Church.

This proves that NTBible is not Word of God.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Punishment for claimants of divinity in Jews from Moses

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/jesus-had-no-claim-on-divinity/#comments

Aaron Says:

You quote from the Bible as the source for your answer. That’s great. Do you know what the Bible says concerning the charge made by the Jews against Jesus?

paarsurrey Says:

Hi friend Aaron

Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.
Jesus pegged his biggest sign with Jonah; and Jonah was only a Prophet; for just repeating the same sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god? The Catholics and Protestants should ponder over this; if they believe in an iota of reason in the NTBible.
Since you believe in OTBible, please quote the punishment Jews had from Moses for the claimant of divinity?
Perhaps that answers your question also.

Aaron Says:

Hi,

It sounds like you want it both ways. You did not quote Matthew’s Gospel about the charge Jesus was condemned: blasphemy (an example of Jesus’ claim to divine authority). But you reference Matthew’s Gospel about Jonah. I think philosophers call what you are doing the fallacy of “manufacturing facts from a theory” and/or “special pleading”. You are rewriting the New Testament to fit your procrustean bed.
Would you please explain why you don’t believe Jesus was condemned for blasphemy as it is recorded in Matthew 26:65 and why you believe Matthew 12:39-41? From Matthew’s Gospel, can you tell me what texts of the Old Testament Jesus used in His response to the High Priest (Matthew 26:64)?
Jesus’ death, resurrection, and empty tomb is good news for all who believe. Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life” (John 5:24).
Regards,
Aaron

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends Aaron

I think I had already elaborated my position regarding gospels in my previous post:

Quote: “Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.” Unquote.

If Jesus never attempted to write any gospels in Judea; how could I dare write it? It was cunning Paul and the clever Church who got hold of anonymous writings and for their own motives and after editing and naming arbitrarily, presented it as Gospels. Jesus had nothing to do with this plethora of writings. He never authorized or dictated anybody to publish this stuff in his absence when he was alive and living happily in India.

I was waiting for you response to mention punishment of claimants of divinity in Jews from Moses. Would you please respond?
May the Creator- God Allah YHWH bless you! And may He open your heart for acceptance of truth.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks