From where did the “wives” of Cain and Abel come?

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/from-where-did-the-wives-of-cain-and-abel-come.227112/

#78  paarsurrey

wrote:

From where did the “wives” of Cain and Abel come?

Adam was not the first human being, he got evolved in million of years his tribe along-with other tribes. Yes, Adam was was the first human being with whom G-d conversed directly.
Shujra*/Tree of life** or family tree*** or the tree of the knowledge [of good and evil (Hebrew: עֵץ הַדַּעַת)].*~and or simple social codes of Adam*^ was some people of some tribe from whom Adam was warned not to have any social links as they were disruptive/rowdy/troublesome/trouble-making/disorderly people.
No problem for wedding of Adam or his sons etc. Right, please?

Regards
________________
*Quran
**”The tree of life (Hebrew: עֵץ הַחַיִּים Tiberian: ‘êṣ ha-ḥayyîm; Standard: Etz haChayim)[1] is a term mentioned in the Hebrew Bible.
In the Book of Genesis, the tree of life is first described in chapter 2, verse 9 .”
Tree of life (biblical) – Wikipedia
*** “A family tree, or pedigree chart, is a chart representing family relationships in a conventional tree structure. The more detailed family trees used in medicine and social work are known as genograms.” Wikipedia
*~The tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Hebrew: עֵץ הַדַּעַת).
Tree of life (biblical) – Wikipedia
*^ “Âdam or Aadam (Arabic: آدم‎, romanized: ʾĀdam) is believed to have been the first human and nabi (Arabic: نَـبِي‎, prophet) on Earth, in Islam.[1] Adam’s role as the father of the human race is looked upon by Muslims with reverence. Muslims also refer to his wife, Haawa (Arabic: حَـواء‎, Eve), as the “mother of mankind”.[2] Muslims see Adam as the first Muslim on Earth, as the Quran states that all the Prophets preached the same faith of Islam (Arabic: إِسـلام‎, ‘Submission‘ (to God)).[3]
In the Qur’an Adam is given the name by God known as the (Adam-I-Safi) or The Chosen One.[4][5]
ooooo
Adam was on earth, God taught him how to plant seeds and bake bread. This was to become the way of all of Adam’s children.[12]”
Adam in Islam – Wikipedia

“Proof That Quranic/Biblical Adam Did Not Exist”

Please join interesting discussion on<www.religiousforums.com > on the above topic. My post:

Post #5  http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/proof-that-quranic-biblical-adam-did-not-exist.176335/#post-4280175

paarsurrey wrote: ↑
Would your please quote from Quran that there was ever only one breeding pair one planet Earth?
Regards

Salvador said: ↑

“And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: ‘I am going to create a human (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him.” (Quran 38:71-72)

“O ye people! Fear your Lord Who created you from a single soul and of its kind created its mate, and from them twain spread many men and women” (Qur’an 4:2).

[38:72]When thy Lord said to the angels, ‘I am about to create man from clay,
[38:73]‘And so when I have fashioned himin perfection, and have breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in submission to him.’

Paarsurrey wrote:

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine – Al Islam Online
[4:1]In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[4:2]O ye people! fear your Lord, Who created you from a single soul and created therefrom its mate, and from them twain spread many men and women; and fear Allah, in Whose name you appeal to one another, andfear Him particularly respectingties of relationship. Verily, Allah watches over you.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine – Al Islam Online

You will please observe form the verses closely that Adam or Eve’s names have not been mentioned in the same.
It is a general discussion of human creation which is discussed by Quran in the verses.

Regards

“God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!”

One is welcome to view my post <www.religiousforums.com> and comment on it even if one differs with me.

Post #544

Salvador said: ↑

The Biblical or Koranic myth of Adam and Eve would subsequently involve a story about incestuous relationships and inbred children!

Paarsurrey wrote : Please quote from Quran where incest between Adam and Eve has been mentioned.

Salvador said: ↑

Clearly now, you can see that the Bible should not always be taken as a word of revelation from the “One-True-God” nor should the Bible always be accepted as an ethical, moral or “spiritual” uplift.

Paarsurrey wrote :The Original Word of Revelation on Moses did have qualities of ethical, moral and spiritual uplift later when the clergy or narrators changed it to suit their whims, Bible lost such qualities. It is better, therefore, to focus on the core teachings of Bible and leave peripherals added later by the erring clergy.

Salvador said: ↑

The Bible makes a falsifiable assertion that everybody is descendant from a man and woman who lived together 6,000 years

Paarsurrey wrote :I agree with you that the inference from Bible “that everybody is descendant from a man and woman who lived together” in the past.

Salvador said: ↑

who lived together 6,000 years

Paarsurrey wrote :_____and the period of “6000 years” is a wrong inference from Bible, unless one quotes literally from Bible to have mentioned it.

Regards

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/god-recreated-the-earth-6-000-years-ago.174599/page-28#post-4277528

“God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!”

One may view my posts on <www.religiousforums.com>and comment on them even if one differs with me.

Post #534

Salvador said: ↑

I believe that the biblical story of creation doesn’t describe God’s original creation of Earth, but it actually describes the recreation of the Earth 6,000 years ago by God for the benefit of newly formed life who would have souls such as Adam, Eve and their descendants. I believe that according to the first few verses of Holy scripture in the book of Genesis, the Earth already had existed with water during the first day of its recreation. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” – (Genesis 1:1-2)

I believe there was an older version of Earth that God had destroyed with a cloud of darkness and water, so that He could recreate the Earth with the right conditions for us humans who have souls. I think the first chapter of Genesis is widely misinterpreted as a narrative about the creation of Earth; whereas, it should be correctly interpreted as a narrative about the recreation of the Earth with more favorable conditions for human souls to exist. Does anybody else agree that the first few verses in the book of Genesis have been widely misinterpreted as a creation narrative; whereas, it should be correctly interpreted as a recreation narrative?

Paarsurrey wrote:Please quote from the scriptures where it mention literally that “God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!”.

Regards

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/god-recreated-the-earth-6-000-years-ago.174599/page-27#post-4276494

Post #536

Salvador said: ↑

There could be a great gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. I had thought that extinct animals such as dinosaurs, wooly mammoths, sabre-tooth tigers and ancient hominids perhaps could have lived during this time, then the world could have been destroyed; and subsequently, the Genesis creation account that follows could have been about the remaking of the world for the creation of the first living soul Adam.

Biblical chronology puts the time of Adam around 4,000 B.C. According to the Bible, 1,948-1,956 years elapsed from the creation of Adam until the birth of Abraham ( Genesis ) , then 529-530 years elapsed from Abraham’s birth until the Ten Commandments were written ( Genesis 17:1-4) , ( Galatians 3:17). 480 years passed after this time until King Solomon’s Temple was built during the fourth year of his rule in Jerusalem. ( 1 Kings 6:1 ) According to the Bible, Solomon ruled Israel for another 36 years afterwards, and several other kings ruled Jerusalem all together for 394-412 years after Solomon until the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem in 587 BC. ( Kings 1 and 2 ) Thus, the Biblical date of creation for the first living soul (Adam) on Earth was 5,989-6,016 years ago.

Of course, there is plenty of scientific evidence that living souls ( humans ) have existed long before some 6,000 years ago. Human genetic diversity is too great for there to have ever been a human population size that consisted of less than 10,000 individuals. Pairwise Sequentially Markovian Coalescent (PSMC) analysis confirms a population bottleneck in humans that consisted of no fewer than 10,000 individuals. Source: ( Li, Heng, and Durbin, Richard. ) “Inference of Human Population History from Individual Whole-Genome Sequences”. Nature International Weekly Journal of Science. 28 July 2001. PSMC estimate on simulated data. : Inference of human population history from individual whole-genome sequences : Nature : Nature Publishing Group

If there were the most severe population bottlenecking such as one breeding pair that is portrayed in the case of the Biblical or Quranic Adam and Eve, then there would be a maximum of 4 alleles passed on by Adam and Eve to their children. Furthermore, the subsequent inbreeding would cause some loss of alleles due to genetic drifting. There would not have been genetic diversity in the small group of Adam, Eve and their children who would’ve had to commit incest amongst each other for the procreation of their inbred children. A lack of genetic diversity would have persisted for thousands of generations until genetic mutations could cause the genetic diversity of today’s population. Based on the number of different alleles there are for the number of genes within the current population and the known rate of mutations per nucleotide sites in humans, geneticists can calculate the minimum number of people needed to create the current amount of genetic diversity. Numerous genetic studies suggest that there were several thousands of people more than two people during the most severe population bottleneck which ever occurred in human history.

DNA segments ( Alu repeats ) insert themselves at various chromosomal locations. There are various forms of Alu sequences and several thousand families of Alu. One well-studied family of Alu is called Ya5, which has been inserted into human chromosomes at 57 mapped locations. If we were to have descended from a single pair of ancestors such as Adam and Eve, then we all would have each of the 57 elements inserted at the same location points of our chromosomes. ” However, the human population consists of groups of people who share some insertion points but not others. The multiple shared categories make it clear that although a human population bottleneck occurred, it was definitely never as small as two. In fact, this line of evidence also indicates that there were at least several thousand people when the population was at its smallest”. Source: ( Venema, Dennis and Falk, Darrel ) ” Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple?”. 5 April 2010. Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple? | The BioLogos Forum

Coalescence theory analysis of single nucleotide polymorphisms and linkage disequilibrium indicates the mean effective population size for hominid lineage is 100,000 individuals over the course of the last 30 million years. The effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium is a minimum of 10,000 followed by an expansion in the last 20,000 years.” Source: ( Tenesa, Albert, Navarro, Paul, Hayes, Ben J., Duffy, David L., Clarke,Geraldine, Goodard, Mike E. and Visscher, Peter M.) ” Recent Human Effective Population Size Estimated from Linkage Disequilibrium”. Genome Research. 17 April 2007 Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium

Paarsurrey wrote:The scriptures and or more truly the Word of Revelation from the One-True-God are for ethical, moral and spiritual uplift of human beings, as such inference from it in things material is the most unscientific thing to do.
Why do it?
Regards

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/god-recreated-the-earth-6-000-years-ago.174599/page-27#post-4276802

God Himself is a Zionist.!?

I wrote following post on one of my favorite discussion forums <https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/god-himself-is-a-zionist.170260/page-2#post-4011538 >

Post #29 thread/topic <God Himself is a Zionist.!?>

One could join the discussion on the forum or here on this blog.

Paarsurrey wrote:

No, emphatic no.
G-d is not for a particular place/town/city/country/race/nation:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 1: Al-Fatihah

[1:1]In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[1:2]All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
[1:3]The Gracious, the Merciful,
[1:4]Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1:5]Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help.
[1:6]Guide us in the right path —
[1:7]The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowedThyblessings, those who have not incurredThydispleasure, and those who have not gone astray.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=1

Regards

Adam and Eve: did Torah copy or plagiarize the story?

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3862440-post1.html

Pleas access the above marvelous site to join the discussion.

Paarsurrey wrote:

The latest research tells us:

Adam And Eve Lived In Africa, But Probably Did Not Know Each Other: Scientists

The most recent common ancestor of men, called Adam, lived almost 120,000 years ago, and chances are that he did not meet or interact with Eve, who lived around 99,000 to 148,000 years ago, a new research indicates.

http://www.ibtimes.com/adam-eve-lived-africa-probably-did-not-know-each-other-scientists-1369497

The most pertinent question therefore would be; where did Jewish Bible or Torah get the story of Adam and Eve from?

Where from it copied?

Regards

“WE ARE ANIMALS, YET WE ARE NOT”

We are animals, yet we are not.

paarsurrey says:
March 24, 2014 at 7:45 pm

@ unfonfirmedabsolutes
“WE ARE ANIMALS, YET WE ARE NOT.”

Hi friend

Yes; we got evolved from animals in millions of years on the commandment of One-True-God when He said the words “to be”; and the process of our being got started. When humans got the characteristics that were destined for us in the words “to be”; our God conversed with the most righteous person (of the time) among us called “Adam”.

Now there is no going back to the animal kingdom:

[17:71] Indeed, We have honored the children of Adam, and carried them by land and sea, and given them of good things and exalted them far above many of those whom We have created.
[17:72] Remember the day when We shall summon every people with their Leader. Then whoso shall be given his book in his right hand — such will read their book, and they will not be wronged a whit.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=17&verse=70

Thanks and regards

“The ‘Big Bang’ is not mentioned in scripture (Bible)”

Blog: Enquiries on Atheism: topic: Rules of Fair Religious Debate Play

http://atheistenquiry.org/
My comments:

http://atheistenquuiry.org/2014/02/24/rules-of-fair-religious-debate-play/comment-page-1/#comment-4625

Paarsurrey
February 26, 2014 • 5:25 pm

“The “Big Bang” is not mentioned in scripture (Bible)”

It is not reasonable for intelligent people to look for scientific theories in the religious scriptures. The Word of Revelation from the One-True-God on the messengers/prophets is/was for polishing ethical, moral and spiritual faculties of the human beings; hence they should be referred to only in such matters.

Now the word “Big Bang” has been cooked in the recent times; it was not in vogue in the times of Adam (or Moses); in fact this phenomenon happened at a time, millions of years before, when Adam had not yet been evolved. So to look for it in the Bible is a futile exercise; Bible could only, at the most, hint at it in some obscure form for the intelligent people.

Let the masses understand life in easy terms please

I wrote following post for the benefit of the public at

Young Earth Creationists make their point

paarsurrey @ Captain Cassidy

Quoting your words:

“If there’s no literal Creation, then there can’t be a literal Fall, and from there no literal Original Sin, which means there’s no need for a literal Jesus to die and be apparently risen again. There might not even be a real hell or heaven to threaten or entice people with.” Unquote

Quran here comes to the rescue of the Bible for correct understanding of the things lost its originality due to the manipulation of the scribes of Bible.

Taking the narrative of Adam’s creation as literal is a misunderstanding of the scribes and is wrong. Adam was not the first man created/evolved; man might have evolved in millions of years as science has deciphered it rightly now. Adam and Eve were the first people chosen for the direct Converse with the One-True-God as the words ““[9] And the Lord God called Adam, and said to him: Where art thou?”
It also is the mistake of the eulogizers of science and scientists to take the Word Revealed on Krishna, Moses, Jesus etc as if they were writing text books of science; they never claimed as such.

It is easy for the ordinary/common man to understand the things in nutshell and in a symbolic or poetic way than in terms of the formulas, equations and other difficult terminologies of science; which is the job of Scientist to do and they must do it for the benefit of the human society.
So, please let it be simple. Let the masses understand life in easy terms.

Thanks

The one true God whom Adam, Buddha, Krishna, Socrates, Moses, Jesus etc believed

There ensued a discussion on one of my favorite blogs between me and john zande which could be viewed by clicking the following link:

 http://fidedubitandum.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/the-wrong-target/

• paarsurrey
• July 11th, 2013 at 7:01 am

Reblogged this on paarsurrey and commented:
Paarsurrey says:

All revealed religions in their origin are/were from one source of the one true God; that is the reason for so many similar teachings in them. The differences in religions reflect that when the message from the one true God got diluted due to corruption; the message was again revealed by Him on another truthful messenger prophet of the one true God.

Thanks

 

• john zande
  July 12th, 2013 at 6:13 am

Would your mind change to know there was never a revelation to anyone at any time? I’m referring here specifically to the Old Testament.

 

• paarsurrey
  July 13th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

Why should one restrict to Old Testament? Moses did receive revelation from the one true God.
Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Socrates, Jesus, Muhammad and in our own times Mirza Ghulam Ahmad received revelation from the one true God.

 

• john zande
  July 13th, 2013 at 10:30 pm

Care to explain then why all these gods have different names, attributes, personalities, messages, languages, moral codes, and varying degrees of authored powers. The Abrahamic god is omnipotent and omnipresent, but the Zoroastrian, Ahura Mazda, in not (it is stressed) omnipresent.

 

• paarsurrey
  July 13th, 2013 at 10:42 pm

Different languages have to have different names of the one true God; it is very natural.
All good names in whatever language are His names; they belong to the one true God.

 

• john zande
  July 13th, 2013 at 10:45 pm

Sorry, that explanation doesn’t fly. You are alluding to a universal god, and a universal god should have one name recognised by all. By extension such a god should be able to state exactly what it wants to say and do so free of any and all ambiguity. Its word should be unencumbered by cultural idiosyncrasies and remain unmolested by divergences in language, calligraphy, obscure and dead lexicons, future dialects, exotic morphemes, or even illiteracy and deafness. Its word should contain no contradiction, no absurdity, no oversight or declarations that are in conflict with observed facts. Its word should penetrate all tribal, domestic and international legal code and remain morally true in a timeless continuum. Such an entity should be instantly recognisable to all sentient creatures and its actions should exhibit no fault or favour, no bias, prejudice, second-thought or indeed, if omniscient, no mind-set at all.

 

• paarsurrey
  July 15th, 2013 at 11:11 pm

How do you know that? Please give your evidence

john zande
July 15th, 2013 at 11:33 pm

It is a claim bound-up in the proclamation of an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient god. I didn’t make the claim; theists, like yourself, do.
paarsurrey
July 16th, 2013 at 12:27 am

But I did not make any such claim; you will admit; if others do, they are free to answer.
john zande
July 16th, 2013 at 1:15 am

Are you insane?

You believe in the Abrahamic god. That god is said to be omni-everything. If you don’t believe in that particular god you’ll have to specifically outline which god you actually believe in… and describe its attributes to me.

So, if its not the Abrahamic god, describe the god you believe in.
paarsurrey
July 16th, 2013 at 1:27 am

I believe in the one true God who always existed irrespective whether Abraham believed in Him. I don’t have to contest with Abraham; he was a truthful messenger prophet of the one true God.

In fact time and space, “nothing” and “something”; are all caused by Him, the one true God.

Please don’t define and limit my God; it is my choice to believe in Him as per the attributes mentioned in Quran.

Please don’t lose patience; I think it is a good attribute of a Humanist.

Isn’t it?
john zande
July 16th, 2013 at 1:41 am

“attributes mentioned in Quran…”

so you believe in the Abrahamic god! There’s no two ways around this. You believe in THAT omni-everything god.
paarsurrey
July 16th, 2013 at 3:28 am

Prophets like Adam, Buddha, Krishna, Socrates, Moses and Jesus etc; all believed in one true God; Abraham was also one such messenger prophet among so many.

Religion is a personal belief; please don’t attribute or define anything which I did not claim.

I think a good Humanist should be careful about others beliefs

• john zande
  July 16th, 2013 at 4:12 am

  There you go again about Moses and Abraham…. Dude, they NEVER existed. They are fictional characters. You’re entire belief system is a sham.

   
•  
  paarsurrey
  July 16th, 2013 at 4:25 am

  Give your irrefutable evidence; please, like a good Humanist.

  john zande

  • July 16th, 2013 at 4:32 am

  I already have given you the consensus… evidently you didn’t read it.

  Now, you’re boring me.

  • paarsurrey
    July 16th, 2013 at 4:37 am

  I don’t think there is any consensus on it.

  I think at first you qualified it with the word “overwhelming”; just to add some weight.

  Now don’t be angry.