Why converse of G-d is needed by humans?

Please join interesting discussion on < www.religiousforums.com > and comment on my following post.

Post #24 http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/why-converse-of-g-d-is-needed-by-humans.176683/page-2#post-4281299

paarsurrey said: ↑
Very practical, normal and successful persons have had Converse with G-d.

Spiny Norman said: ↑

I don’t know any. What kind of conversations are you talking about here?

Paarsurrey wrote:

Like G-d talked to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) and directed him in 1882 to:

“wasseh makanaka” in Arabic Language.
Translation ” And enlarge your house”.

Page # 65 http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Tadhkirah.pdf

Regards

“God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!”

One is welcome to view my post <www.religiousforums.com> and comment on it even if one differs with me.

Post #544

Salvador said: ↑

The Biblical or Koranic myth of Adam and Eve would subsequently involve a story about incestuous relationships and inbred children!

Paarsurrey wrote : Please quote from Quran where incest between Adam and Eve has been mentioned.

Salvador said: ↑

Clearly now, you can see that the Bible should not always be taken as a word of revelation from the “One-True-God” nor should the Bible always be accepted as an ethical, moral or “spiritual” uplift.

Paarsurrey wrote :The Original Word of Revelation on Moses did have qualities of ethical, moral and spiritual uplift later when the clergy or narrators changed it to suit their whims, Bible lost such qualities. It is better, therefore, to focus on the core teachings of Bible and leave peripherals added later by the erring clergy.

Salvador said: ↑

The Bible makes a falsifiable assertion that everybody is descendant from a man and woman who lived together 6,000 years

Paarsurrey wrote :I agree with you that the inference from Bible “that everybody is descendant from a man and woman who lived together” in the past.

Salvador said: ↑

who lived together 6,000 years

Paarsurrey wrote :_____and the period of “6000 years” is a wrong inference from Bible, unless one quotes literally from Bible to have mentioned it.

Regards

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/god-recreated-the-earth-6-000-years-ago.174599/page-28#post-4277528

“God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!”

One may view my posts on <www.religiousforums.com>and comment on them even if one differs with me.

Post #534

Salvador said: ↑

I believe that the biblical story of creation doesn’t describe God’s original creation of Earth, but it actually describes the recreation of the Earth 6,000 years ago by God for the benefit of newly formed life who would have souls such as Adam, Eve and their descendants. I believe that according to the first few verses of Holy scripture in the book of Genesis, the Earth already had existed with water during the first day of its recreation. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” – (Genesis 1:1-2)

I believe there was an older version of Earth that God had destroyed with a cloud of darkness and water, so that He could recreate the Earth with the right conditions for us humans who have souls. I think the first chapter of Genesis is widely misinterpreted as a narrative about the creation of Earth; whereas, it should be correctly interpreted as a narrative about the recreation of the Earth with more favorable conditions for human souls to exist. Does anybody else agree that the first few verses in the book of Genesis have been widely misinterpreted as a creation narrative; whereas, it should be correctly interpreted as a recreation narrative?

Paarsurrey wrote:Please quote from the scriptures where it mention literally that “God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!”.

Regards

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/god-recreated-the-earth-6-000-years-ago.174599/page-27#post-4276494

Post #536

Salvador said: ↑

There could be a great gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. I had thought that extinct animals such as dinosaurs, wooly mammoths, sabre-tooth tigers and ancient hominids perhaps could have lived during this time, then the world could have been destroyed; and subsequently, the Genesis creation account that follows could have been about the remaking of the world for the creation of the first living soul Adam.

Biblical chronology puts the time of Adam around 4,000 B.C. According to the Bible, 1,948-1,956 years elapsed from the creation of Adam until the birth of Abraham ( Genesis ) , then 529-530 years elapsed from Abraham’s birth until the Ten Commandments were written ( Genesis 17:1-4) , ( Galatians 3:17). 480 years passed after this time until King Solomon’s Temple was built during the fourth year of his rule in Jerusalem. ( 1 Kings 6:1 ) According to the Bible, Solomon ruled Israel for another 36 years afterwards, and several other kings ruled Jerusalem all together for 394-412 years after Solomon until the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem in 587 BC. ( Kings 1 and 2 ) Thus, the Biblical date of creation for the first living soul (Adam) on Earth was 5,989-6,016 years ago.

Of course, there is plenty of scientific evidence that living souls ( humans ) have existed long before some 6,000 years ago. Human genetic diversity is too great for there to have ever been a human population size that consisted of less than 10,000 individuals. Pairwise Sequentially Markovian Coalescent (PSMC) analysis confirms a population bottleneck in humans that consisted of no fewer than 10,000 individuals. Source: ( Li, Heng, and Durbin, Richard. ) “Inference of Human Population History from Individual Whole-Genome Sequences”. Nature International Weekly Journal of Science. 28 July 2001. PSMC estimate on simulated data. : Inference of human population history from individual whole-genome sequences : Nature : Nature Publishing Group

If there were the most severe population bottlenecking such as one breeding pair that is portrayed in the case of the Biblical or Quranic Adam and Eve, then there would be a maximum of 4 alleles passed on by Adam and Eve to their children. Furthermore, the subsequent inbreeding would cause some loss of alleles due to genetic drifting. There would not have been genetic diversity in the small group of Adam, Eve and their children who would’ve had to commit incest amongst each other for the procreation of their inbred children. A lack of genetic diversity would have persisted for thousands of generations until genetic mutations could cause the genetic diversity of today’s population. Based on the number of different alleles there are for the number of genes within the current population and the known rate of mutations per nucleotide sites in humans, geneticists can calculate the minimum number of people needed to create the current amount of genetic diversity. Numerous genetic studies suggest that there were several thousands of people more than two people during the most severe population bottleneck which ever occurred in human history.

DNA segments ( Alu repeats ) insert themselves at various chromosomal locations. There are various forms of Alu sequences and several thousand families of Alu. One well-studied family of Alu is called Ya5, which has been inserted into human chromosomes at 57 mapped locations. If we were to have descended from a single pair of ancestors such as Adam and Eve, then we all would have each of the 57 elements inserted at the same location points of our chromosomes. ” However, the human population consists of groups of people who share some insertion points but not others. The multiple shared categories make it clear that although a human population bottleneck occurred, it was definitely never as small as two. In fact, this line of evidence also indicates that there were at least several thousand people when the population was at its smallest”. Source: ( Venema, Dennis and Falk, Darrel ) ” Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple?”. 5 April 2010. Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple? | The BioLogos Forum

Coalescence theory analysis of single nucleotide polymorphisms and linkage disequilibrium indicates the mean effective population size for hominid lineage is 100,000 individuals over the course of the last 30 million years. The effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium is a minimum of 10,000 followed by an expansion in the last 20,000 years.” Source: ( Tenesa, Albert, Navarro, Paul, Hayes, Ben J., Duffy, David L., Clarke,Geraldine, Goodard, Mike E. and Visscher, Peter M.) ” Recent Human Effective Population Size Estimated from Linkage Disequilibrium”. Genome Research. 17 April 2007 Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium

Paarsurrey wrote:The scriptures and or more truly the Word of Revelation from the One-True-God are for ethical, moral and spiritual uplift of human beings, as such inference from it in things material is the most unscientific thing to do.
Why do it?
Regards

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/god-recreated-the-earth-6-000-years-ago.174599/page-27#post-4276802

Is Islam a universal religion?:Nothing is left on blind-faith

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3806300-post302.html

paarsurrey wrote:

The Truthful Revelation is always reasonable; the One-True-God is All-Wise; so the revelation has to be reasonable, if correctly understood.

Peaceful dialogue with reasonable arguments is the language of correct understanding between human beings. Revelation helped by reason or reason helped by Revelation is the source of knowledge that could be acquired in the ethical, moral and spiritual realms. Islam provides it in the practical life.

It is for this that Islam is called a global or universal religion. Nothing is left on blind-faith.

Regards

Rational argumentation and Revelation both help to determine which religion is true

The viewers are advised to visit the link given below to know the context of the discussion and then form their own independent and sincere opinion.

http://anaivethinker.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/how-i-became-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-129

paarsurrey | April 2, 2014 at 11:03 am

@ anaivethinker | April 1, 2014 at 9:50 pm
“Do you think that rational argumentation is sufficient to determine which religion is true, if any?
-Brandon” Unquote

Reason is a bounty that the One-True-God has bestowed on us the human beings and it is common to everybody believers or non-believers. Some use it most while some don’t use it much. As one sees with eyes things that are physical and material; for inner reflection reason is sort of inner tool of seeing.

Reason of itself is blind; it always needs a conjugal partner to ascertain things. For things happened in the past reason needs history or archaeology etc., for the present one needs radio, television, newspaper and for future just a conjecture.

Human eyes cannot see things without light; human ear needs a medium to hear.

The conjugal partner of reason to find the one true God is Word of Revelation; neither science nor the scientific method. Science can only deal in the things material and physical; not even the spiritual things.

The one true God created everything physical, material and spiritual; and he is out of these realms or dimensions. He is everywhere with His attributes though.

With all its merits reason cannot lead one to certainty; the maximum reason can guide us to is that there should be a God; the Revelation leads one to certainty.

One should not believe in myths; myths could be reasoned out and that is very good.

Regards

God exists: Simple reasons

http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/#comment-8856

paarsurrey
MAR 18, 2014 @ 19:43:01

@Howie:MAR 18, 2014 @ 01:09:50

Howie said: As far as saying “you feel you have revelation” I may have used the wrong words.
Paarsurey said: You got me wrong, I said, “No, I am not honored with Revelation from God”.

Howie said: Also if I believed I didn’t exist then the act of doing anything at all would be a complete absurdity.
Paarsurey says: Yes one’s consciousness of one’s existence is ample proof of one’s existence; and one declares with full certainty just by communication to others that one exists.

The same way a being having Superior- Consciousness (God) could communicate with humans and declare to them of His existence; like He talked to Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Nature does not talk with anybody; it has never talked to anybody ever; hence it cannot teach humans to talk; therefore it cannot evolve on its own a process that enables human to talk to or communicate with fellow humans and also to have Converse with God.

Howie said: This god that you are talking about hasn’t interacted with me in any way at all.
Paarsurey says: Because one has not chosen the proper way for told by the founders of revealed religions on the basis of Revelation they received from God.

Howie said: Do you know that there are people of many different religions that are sure about their gods and their beliefs and express the same level of certainty as you do?
Paarsurey says:I understand and this is because the founders of their religions in origin were truthful persons and they received the revelation from the same God, I believe in.

Howie said: As far as my parents go, I can see, hear, feel, and smell my parents
Paarsurey says: Yes that is right; but one knows for certain that they are one’s parents from the love and caring they provide one; otherwise one had not seen them mating to be sure of their being one’s parents; yet one is sure having absolutely no doubt that they are one’s parents without getting into DNA checking and matching, the scientific proofs.

Howie said: and have had tons of conversations with them.
Paarsurey says: The same way a being having Superior- Consciousness (God) could communicate with humans and declare to them of His existence; like He talked to Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Please ponder over this simple reasoning; it is simple because religion is for everybody and has to be simple.

Thanks and regards.

The Exemplary Ahmadi Muslim

Friday Sermon:

Sermon Delivered by Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad at Head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community February 7th, 2014

Audio translation is available in following languages:
Urdu, English ,Arabic ,Bengali , Bosnian, Bulgarian, French, German, Malayalam, Russian, Sindhi, Swahili, Tamil, Turkish

Please click language of your choice on the link below.

http://www.alislam.org/friday-sermon/2014-02-07.html

Synopsis:English

Last week Hazrat Khalifatul Masih happened to watch part of the programme Rah-e-Huda when a non-Ahmadi questioner was putting his question with reference to a revelation of the Promised Messiah(as). In a way his question was an objection and in his preamble the caller said that the Holy Qur’an, which is the Word of God, Hadith and works of other holy persons all have a concordance and a flow which he failed to see in the Promised Messiah’s(as) words. Even if the intention of the caller was not to object, his tone appeared so.

The Promised Messiah(as) said: ‘I have said as regards mutual love and harmony of the Jama’at that you should have accord and unity. This is the teaching God gave to the Muslims that be as one otherwise you will collapse. The commandment to stand close to each other in Salat is to promote unity, so that the good in one permeates like electric power in each other. If you have conflict and no unity, you will remain unfortunate.

‘Remember removal of malice is a sign of the Mahdi. Will this sign not come to pass? Indeed, it will. Why don’t you be patient! Just as in medical matters some ailments do not go away unless they are completely eradicated. InshaAllah a pious community will be created through me. What is the reason for mutual enmity? Miserliness, arrogance, self-centredness and emotions. I will exclude all those from my Jama’at who do not have control over their emotions and cannot live with mutual love and unity.

The Promised Messiah(as) said: ‘It should be remembered very well that there is benefit in everything. Look around the world, from high quality of vegetation to rodents and insects, there is nothing that is devoid of benefit to man. All these ordinary things, whether they are earthly or heavenly, are shadows of the attributes of Allah the Exalted. When there is so much benefit in [Divine] attributes, imagine the benefit of the Being of God!

The Promised Messiah(as) said: ‘Allah the Exalted does not care for anyone but for the righteous person. Instil mutual love and unity and abandon beastliness and conflict and give up all manner of mockery and derision because mockery makes the heart remote and distant from the truth. Treat each other with respect and everyone should give precedence to the comfort of his brother over his own comfort. Generate true conciliation with Allah the Exalted and return to His obedience.

‘Our detractors have animosity against us and wish for the Jama’at to be destroyed. It should be remembered that in spite of their animosity, I agree with them in one thing. And that is that God Almighty has willed that this Jama’at is free of sin and that it demonstrates a fine model of conduct and truly practices the true teachings of the Holy Qur’an and is fervently devoted in adherence of the Holy Prophet(saw).

These are the standards we need to aspire to, indeed, should aspire to; abiding by Taqwa, reforming our practices and enhancing the levels of faith. These are not small matters. We have accepted the Imam of the age and we should make endeavours to come up to the mark of his expectations. We should try and accomplish the smallest of virtue and should recoil from every evil. There is need to enhance mutual love, affection and unity.

Status of Socrates in Islam

Not all the prophets and messengers of the One-True-God (Allah Yahweh Ahura-Mazda Parameshawara Eshawara) have been named in Quran; only about twenty five of them have been mentioned in Quran by their names; for others general characteristics have been mentioned of a truthful prophet messengers.

It is one of the basic principles of Islam to believe in all the prophets messengers of the One-True-God Allah wherever they have come in the world. One cannot deny any of them as the denial of any one of them may mean denial of the office of prophet- hood and this way denial of all the prophets and messengers; as they all have been sent by the One-True-God.

One such prophet is Socrates.

We give here some of the verses of Quran that give characteristics of a prophet in this connection:

1. [35:25] Verily, We have sent thee with the truth, as a bearer of glad tidings and as a Warner; and there is no people to whom a Warner has not been sent.
[35:26] And if they treat thee as a liar, those who were before them also treated their Prophets as liars. Their Messengers came to them with clear Signs, and with the Scriptures, and with the illuminating Book.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=35&verse=25

2. [16:37] And We did raise among every people a Messenger, preaching: ‘Worship Allah and shun the Evil One.’ Then among them were some whom Allah guided and among them weresome who became deserving of ruin. So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who treated the Prophets as liars!
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=16&verse=37

3. [34:35] And We never sent a Warner to any city but the wealthy ones thereof said, ‘Surely, we disbelieve in what you have been sent with.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=34&verse=35

4. [15:11] And We sent Messengers before thee among parties of ancient peoples.
[15:12] And there never came to them any Messenger but they mocked at him.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=15&verse=11

5. [18:7] So haply thou wilt grieve thyself to death for sorrow after them if they believe not in this discourse.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=18

It won’t be out of place here that The fourth successor to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (peace be upon him), the founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community (who believe him to be the Promised Messiah, the grand unifier of the Latter Days) pays homage to Socrates in his marvelous book “Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge & Truth” in the following words:

“He was a prophet among philosophers and a philosopher among prophets. He believed in the unshakeable Unity of God. Of His absolute goodness he did not entertain the slightest doubt. This is what he pronounced during his last speech before the Athenian senate. He believed in God, the possessor of absolute goodness, not merely through his intellectual and metaphysical exercise, he believed because he had personally known Him as such, right from the early days of his childhood.

Nay, he was brought up in the very lap of God with His personal love and care. This was Socrates who also tackled this question with profound logic but it is a logic largely spent on proving the impossibility of any evil originating from God. When it came to the issue of evil and suffering in the world, he dismissed them as human errors, logically impossible to have emanated from Him.

He had to be good, He was good and He could not be anything but good. Hence, evil must have been generated by earthly people, God having no share in their defiled practices. His answer was simple but left room for others to assail him philosophically so that ultimately he could be driven to an indefensible position.”

Ahmad, Hazrat Mirza Tahir – Khalifatul Masih IV. Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge & Truth. (Islam
International Publications Ltd, 1998. 174, 175.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/index.html

Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad Khalifatul Masih IV argued further in his book that Socrates was a prophet of the ancient Greeks.

Hazrat Khalifatul Masih IV writes further:

“There must have been prophets before and after him but of them we can only infer from some oblique references by Socrates himself. For instance, he is known to have said that he is not the only one from God who has been the recipient of revelation; there have been great men before who did the same to serve the cause of goodness. Again, he warns Athenians not to put him to death otherwise they would never see the like of him again, except if God so desires to teach the right path to the Athenians by sending someone else.”

Ahmad, Hazrat Mirza Tahir – Khalifatul Masih IV. Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge & Truth. (Islam
International Publications Ltd, 1998). 73.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/index.html

For more details on the subject one could read the following article titled “Socrates: Philosopher or Prophet” at the following link.

Click to access Socrates.pdf

If Atheists are men of reason; they need be more patient, more tolerant and more courteous: they are not so

I commented on the blog <http://fidedubitandum.wordpress.com/2013/07/18/arguing-with-preschoolers/#comment-1837> and then a discussion ensued between Keith Pinster, an Atheist, and me by clicking the dates [July 20th, 2013 at 10:43 pm,July 21st, 2013 at 12:57 am]; the discussion is given here-under for the viewers of this blog.

@Keith Pinster

Keith Pinster said:  The problem is that “reason” does not lead to the assumption that there should be any sort of Supreme Being.

[Paarsurrey says: The reason also rejects that the things we see and observe could have not been created and that these are self-created.]

Keith Pinster said:  The only way it can lead to that is if you start out with that assumption in the first place.

[Paarsurrey says: It is equally or even more imprudent, in my opinion, to assume that the things we see and observe are self-created.]

Keith Pinster said:  “Revelation” is nothing but tricks of the mind.

[Paarsurrey says: I don’t agree with you]

Keith Pinster said:   If revelation was actually valid, first, everyone would have them,

[Paarsurrey says: There is no bar on anybody, however.]

Keith Pinster said:   second, they would all be from the same religion (yes, believe it or not, people of OTHER religions have “revelations,” too),

[Paarsurrey says: All the religions in their origin are from the one true God; so prima facie revelation is not restricted to a particular race or people]

Keith Pinster said:  and third, if it were true for xianity,

[Paarsurrey says: Jesus did have Word of Revelation from the one true God whom he used to address as God-the-Father; but Jesus did not found Christianity, it is founded by Paul. Jesus was a Jew, he founded no new religion.]

Keith Pinster said:  there wouldn’t be hundreds of different xian sub-cults.

[Paarsurrey says: There is no compulsion so there always would be diversity. Every individual Atheist has different thoughts; it is human and natural]

Keith Pinster said:  So, based on “reason,” revelation is nonsense.

[Paarsurrey says: I don’t agree with you; but you could have a different opinion which is not truthful.]

Keith Pinster said:  Once again, I can not, nor do I need to provide evidence that there is no one true god. Can you provide evidence that there are no unicorns or leprechauns? Can you provide evidence that Ra is not the “one true god,” or Oden or Zeus?

[Paarsurrey says: But Atheists are not so pathetically against these false gods; is it not true?]

Keith Pinster said:  It’s amazing that you are so stubborn that you just simply refuse to understand the concept that THE PERSON THAT DOES NOT ACCEPT AN EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM DOES NOT HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF. It doesn’t matter how many times you ask for that evidence, the fact that ATHEISTS DO NOT HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF does not change.

[Paarsurrey says: Now that the Atheists have become preachers that “there is no true God”; they cannot get refug3 behind the notion of “burden of proof”; they should be bold enough to provide the evidence they ask others.]

Keith Pinster said:  Atheists are NOT MAKING CLAIMS.

[Paarsurrey says: The name Atheists; there are so many blogs defending Atheism; so their claims is/are obviously there; now they should not hesitate.]

Keith Pinster said:  Since theists are making the extraordinary claim, the burden of proof lays directly on their shoulders. Go and take a debate 101 class at your community college. Or even a basic logic class. Please, stop embarrassing yourself by asking stupid questions.

[Paarsurrey says: The majority of people in the world consist of Theists; if we carry/stretch your arguments further; then it is the Atheists who have the extraordinary rather than an ordinary claim; hence there is no harm if they provide their evidence; rather they should happily opt to offer it.

Since the Atheists are committed to reasoning as they claim; so they must be most patience, tolerant and courteous; never resorting to indignation or expressing anger; I think you will agree with me on this.]

Keith Pinster said:  You are definitely correct: reason needs a “conjugal partner to lead it.” And that partner is evidence.

[Paarsurrey says: In things material and physical evidence by way of experiments and repeated experiments is essential; in things spiritual instead of experiments there are experiences; and so many of them are out there.]

Keith Pinster said:  Evidence and reason leads to understandable truth. Accepting a concept without evidence and then refusing to accept that your conclusion is invalid when evidence to the contrary is presented is self-imposed stupidity

[Paarsurrey says: Evidence by way of experience of so many messengers prophets of the one true God; in almost all regions of the world is already there.

Since the Atheists are committed to reasoning as they claim; so they must be most patience, tolerant and courteous; never resorting to indignation or expressing anger; I think you will agree with me on this]

One could believe in on witnessing of others

I commented on the blog < http://independentsguide.wordpress.com/2013/07/16/its-not-only-2/> and then a discussion ensued; the same is given here-under for the viewers of this blog.

 

1. 

   paarsurrey

     /  July 16, 2013

   @ Argus

   Quote from your post
   If you had to write; would’t it had been better if you have visited it?

   Thanks

   Argus Says:
   July 16, 2013 at 10:43 pm | 
   

   I’m an older guy in New Zealand carefully balancing a budget—budget doesn’t allow for popping over to all (or any) of the things that most intrigue me. So I have to rely on other folks …

   Sadly many folks are either easily deluded (stage magicians, priests, and politicians make a good living from it) or look at different aspects of whatever’s there than I would. Some are out to impress; many just gush. So I sift the sand an hope to find a gem or two.

   • paarsurrey Says:
     July 17, 2013 at 4:35 pm | 
     

     So one could benefit from the witnessing of other persons who have seen or observed another phenomenon or experience themselves till such times that one has is able to experience/witness them oneself.

     If we carry this reasoning forward; the messengers prophets have seen/witnessed the one true God themselves; one should benefit from their experience.

     Don’t you agree with it?

     Thanks for visiting my blog and sharing your thoughts.

     New Zealand is a good country.

2. • 

     Argus

       /  July 19, 2013

     I don’t believe in angels (have never met one) any more than I believe in gnomes, imps, elves, and goblins (never met one of those either). I also cannot believe in the Abrahamic God any more than in Odin, Vishnu, Aphrodite, Isis (insert name of own choice here, and there’s millions of them).

     By the same token I’ve never floated in space or set foot on the moon; yet somehow I’m hard-wired to give more credibility to the eyewitness reports of those guys than ‘angels’.

     My own sister is a spiritualist medium who talks routinely to dead guys. Sadly the dead guys all seem to say the same stuff, and when I asked her for the coded message agreed between our Father and I before he passed away; no joy. She tried, a few wild stabs and educated guess, but ol’ Dad was a bit remiss with the codes (I guess crossing over must’ve wiped his memory a bit.) To each his own …

     • 

       paarsurrey

         /  July 20, 2013

       If you don’t believe in angles; you miss one pillar of the true faith.

       • 

         Argus

           /  July 20, 2013

         I miss most of the pillars—

         I do believe that people should be nice to each other, and get along like rational reasoning (dare I say ‘compassionate’?) beings.

         Instead we have vicious slaughter, stonings, burnings at the stake, crusades, torture, beheadings, napalm, holy war etc etc all in the name of the One True God (insert deity of own choice here) (there’s lots of them). Not good.

         • 

           paarsurrey

             /  July 20, 2013

           The Humanists must have to be nice with others; otherwise they shall have to morally change their name from the Humanist as they had previously changed from Atheist, a meaningless name, in my opinion.

           You have however been nice to me; a man committed to reason must be.

           Anyway I will call them with the name they like for themselves.

           Pillars are important for a building, you know.

           • 

             Argus

               /  July 20, 2013

             A building is no good without a reliable foundation (even the Bible says as much); and yes, as an atheist I am allowed to quote from it … peace …

             • 

               paarsurrey

                 /  July 21, 2013

               You mean from Word of Revelation from Jesus?

3. 

   paarsurrey

     /  July 21, 2013

   Our friend Argus never visited the pyramids in Egypt; but preferred to comment on their construction; merits and demerits. The same way he could believe in the one true God on the witnessing of messengers and the prophets. If not, why not?