Posts Tagged ‘Muhammad’

Isn’t Muhammad the “Paraclete”/”Comforter”/ “Spirit of truth*” Jesus foretold?

November 14, 2017

So Muhammad and the Qur’an would be that other “comforter” that “allon paraklēton” and by happening in the year 632 CE, which is the end of 600 years which marks the beginning of a 700th century Sabbath, and God does seem to embrace numbers as significant markers.
The “*spirit of truth” is what matters, and the Qur’an does make correction where Christianity had already gone astray.

Thread: “Isn’t Muhammad the “Paraclete”/ “Comforter? “Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma

Post 1: 

Paarsurrey wrote:

Isn’t Muhammad the “Paraclete”/”Comforter”/”Spirit of truth*” Jesus foretold?

Anybody or everybody in the forum, please

Regards

______
Just to quote for easy reference, please:

JP Cusick wrote: Thread “No-MiddleMan Movement”
“Discussion around the traces of middlemen in each religion”
Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma

Post 9:

 

Quote:
m—o wrote:

But not doctored to the extent that it debars some Muslims from claiming that it predicts Muhammad. When John says that Jesus will send ” allon paraklēton,” another Paraclete from heaven, some construe this as meaning, seven centuries later, an Arab trader will be that very messenger. So John has his uses.

 

 

Quote:
JP Cusick wrote:
Thank you Marco as I never knew about that interpretation and I like that.John 14:
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

So Muhammad and the Qur’an would be that other “comforter” that “allon paraklēton” and by happening in the year 632 CE, which is the end of 600 years which marks the beginning of a 700th century Sabbath, and God does seem to embrace numbers as significant markers.

The “*spirit of truth” is what matters, and the Qur’an does make correction where Christianity had already gone astray.

M—o got it right in this case – cheers to this.
_________________
SIGNATURE:

An unorthodox Theist & a heretic Christian

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“Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone. Did he?”

October 9, 2017

https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=888732#888732

Post 1: 
Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone. Did he?
Paarsurrey wrote:


Muhammad under the guidance of Word of God established a most equitable, peaceful and rational society starting from Mecca, Medina and when Mecca became free under his control to the whole of the Arabian Peninsula and of course then in the whole world.
Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone and he was not trained to fight. Was he, please?
Regards
OOOOOOOOOOOReference Post 24 in the thread “Worship of Mary not Biblical”:
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=888509#888509
Post 5: 
W—-h wrote:
It’s dangerous to see the good in wicked people and more dangerous to try to justify wicked actions because it’s not healthy to support immorality.For instance all criminals would claim to abhor violence but in their situation they had to do it.

But the criminal at least deserves some pity because we did not walk in their shoes. But the one that makes excuses for the criminal deserves far less pity because they are justifying evil.

Right now we have a mass delusion enforced by violence and fear where sane comments about a historical figure are not possible. The West is going to have to choose again between freedom and slavery and it is not clear it has the courage to do so.

We can talk sanely about Ghengis khan or Hitler or napoleon or Cesar or pharoah but not Mohammad. Why is that?


W—-h wrote:

Quote:
We can talk sanely about Ghengis khan or Hitler or napoleon or Cesar or pharoah but not Mohammad. Why is that?

Paarsurrey wrote:
One is welcome to talk about Muhammad sanely, no harm, please.
Did one read Quran to know the truth about Muhammad? Quran is the truthful source of important/crucial/salient points about the life events of Muhammad, and it recorded them while these happened as if a live transmission was going on. Right, please?

Regards
__________
Anyone who says the Quran advocates terrorism obviously hasn’t read its lessons on violence
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/islam-muslim-terrorism-islamist-extremism-quran-teaching-violence-meaning-prophet-muhammed-a7676246.html

Muhammad smashed no idols physically. Did he?

March 17, 2017

What is wrong with smashing the idols?

I participated in the discussion on the above topic in my most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums.

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/what-is-wrong-with-smashing-the-idols.194938/

I give here my posts mentioning the post numbers without giving the names of persons in response to whose posts I wrote my comments. Please click the post numbers to get to know the persons.

sc….. said:
Prophet Luqmaan once said to his son “O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice.”

“O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice.”
The verse does not speak of demolishing the idols. Is it? Please
Regards

#177 paarsurrey commented:

“O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice.”
The better point is that one concentrates on the reasons/arguments given in the above verse (any many others) namely doing “gross injustice by believing in idolatry”. Please
Regards

OOO

SR…..said:

#179 paarsurrey, 

“fundamental human right”

Muhammad cared for all the humans rights rather he was the champion of the human rights. We follow Muhammad, not the politically motivated Terrorists of any time and place. Please
Regards

OOO

Note: 1

Search term: Who owned Kaaba in the time of Muhammad?

The Meccans did not own the Kaaba exclusively . The ownership of the Kaaba was hereditary to the heirs of Abraham and Ishmael who built this house of worship and they were strong believers in One God. 

The keys are in the hands of one family

At the time of the Prophet , each aspect to do with the rites of Hajj was in the hands of different sub-groups of the Quraish. Every one of these would eventually lose control of their guardianship of a particular rite except one. On the conquest of Makkah, the Prophet was given the keys to the Kaaba and instead of keeping it in his own possession; he returned them back to the Osman ibn Talha ® of the Bani Shaiba family. They had been the traditional key keepers of the Kaaba for centuries; and the Prophet confirmed them in that role till the end of time by these words

“Take it, O Bani Talha, eternally up to the Day of Resurrection, and it will not be taken from you unless by an unjust, oppressive tyrant.”

Whether Caliph, Sultan or King – the most powerful men in the world have all had to bow to the words of the Prophet

Note:2

“It may be noted here that the idols belonged to Abraham’s own family. Otherwise it was not right and proper for him to break other people’s idols.”

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1701&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2

OOO

#180 paarsurrey 

That is one of the focal points. The idolators must answer, if they please.
Anybody, please
Regards

OOO

#195 paarsurrey

There is no such teaching in Quran. Please
Regards

OOO

#312 paarsurrey, 

“He left the temple”
Did this happen in a temple? Please quote the relevant verse of Quran?
Regards

OOO

#313 paarsurrey, 

I give the event from Wikipedia:
According to Genesis Rabbah 38.13 R. Hiyya, a first generation Jewish sage, tells the following story:

[IMG]
Abraham cast into the fire
Terah was an idol manufacturer who once went away and left Abraham in charge of the store. A man walked in and wished to buy an idol. Abraham asked him how old he was and the man responded “fifty years old.” Abraham then said, “You are fifty years old and would worship a day old statue!” At this point the man left ashamed.

Later, a woman walked in to the store and wanted to make an offering to the idols. So Abraham took a stick, smashed the idols and placed the stick in the hand of the largest idol. When Terah returned he asked Abraham what happened to all the idols. Abraham told him that a woman came in to make an offering to the idols. Then the idols argued about which one should eat the offering first. Then the largest idol took the stick and smashed the other idols.

Terah responded by saying that they are only statues and have no knowledge. Whereupon Abraham responded by saying that you deny their knowledge, yet you worship them! At which point Terah took Abraham to Nimrod.

Nimrod proclaims to Abraham that we should worship fire. Abraham responds that water puts out fire. So Nimrod declares they worship water. Abraham responds that clouds hold water. So Nimrod declares they worship clouds. Abraham responds that wind pushes clouds. So Nimrod declares they worship wind. Abraham responds that people withstand wind.

Nimrod becomes angry with Abraham and declares that Abraham shall be cast into the fire, and if Abraham is correct that there is a real God, that God will save him. Then Abraham is cast into the fire and is saved by God.
Abraham and the Idol Shop – Wikipedia
Regards

OOO

#320 paarsurrey, 

“That is not religious doctrine as I understand the concept.”

I agree with one. There is no such teaching in Quran. Other religions are respected in Quran and by Muhammad. Please
Regards

OOO

#328 paarsurrey, 

As I had stated earlier in a post, the event did not occur in a temple, it occurred in a shop (among many shops there) where idols were made and sold. The very people who made idols with their hands could amend or undo them, without any objection from others.
So, there was no desecration of any temple or the people in a temple.
While at the shop, Abraham started giving reasonable and very brilliant arguments without any anguish or any indignation and with wisdom. Right? Please
Regards

OOO

#331 paarsurrey, Jan 30, 2017

The idols distract one’s attention from the real Godhead, so it serves no purpose. Please
Did the idols ever say that

  • they perform an important role between the humans and the God,
  • and or (Supreme)God had assigned such role to them
  • or that (Supreme)God abhors direct interaction with the righteous human
  • and as such inanimates will perform an intermediary role between the righteous and the (Supreme)God?

There is nothing like that. Right? Please
Regards

OOO

#333 paarsurrey,

Abraham gave suchlike reasonable and rational arguments to the clients of the shop to the people who came to purchase the idols as mentioned in the Genesis Rabbah, I repeat here again, one might have missed it:

Abraham and the Idol Shop
appears in Genesis Rabbah chapter 38 and is a biblical commentary on the early life of Abraham. The commentary explains what happened to Abraham when he was a young boy working in his father’s idol shop. The story has been used as a way to discuss monotheism and faith in general.
According to Genesis Rabbah 38.13 R. Hiyya, a first generation Jewish sage, tells the following story:

Terah was an idol manufacturer who once went away and left Abraham in charge of the store. (1)A man walked in and wished to buy an idol. Abraham asked him how old he was and the man responded “fifty years old.” Abraham then said, “You are fifty years old and would worship a day old statue!” At this point the man left ashamed.

(2)Later, a woman walked in to the store and wanted to make an offering to the idols. So Abraham took a stick, smashed the idols and placed the stick in the hand of the largest idol.
(3)When Terah returned he asked Abraham what happened to all the idols. Abraham told him that a woman came in to make an offering to the idols. Then the idols argued about which one should eat the offering first. Then the largest idol took the stick and smashed the other idols.

(4)Terah responded by saying that they are only statues and have no knowledge. Whereupon Abraham responded by saying that you deny their knowledge, yet you worship them! At which point Terah took Abraham to Nimrod.

Nimrod proclaims to Abraham that we should worship fire. Abraham responds that water puts out fire. So Nimrod declares they worship water. Abraham responds that clouds hold water. So Nimrod declares they worship clouds. Abraham responds that wind pushes clouds. So Nimrod declares they worship wind. Abraham responds that people withstand wind.

Nimrod becomes angry with Abraham and declares that Abraham shall be cast into the fire, and if Abraham is correct that there is a real God, that God will save him. Then Abraham is cast into the fire and is saved by God.
Abraham and the Idol Shop – Wikipedia
Please see the above (some four) arguments together with the demonstration done by Abraham. It was never done in a temple but in a manufacturer’s shop. One may like to ask the respected Judaism people in the forum about the rationality of Abraham.
Nothing was done by Abraham that was against the humanity. Rather. what was done to Abraham was sheer against humanity, a human being was set to fire alive . Right? Please
Anybody, please
Regards

OOO

#417 paarsurrey, 

Coming to the topic, please
What is wrong with smashing the idols?

The statues that Abraham broke, to demonstrate an argument, were not yet sold for worship, neither for the private worship nor for the worship in a temple.
Regards

OOO

#424 paarsurrey,

There is no idol in Mecca now, all the idols were removed by the Meccan non-believers toward the end of Muhammad’s life.
The Meccans were from the line of Abraham through his elder son Ishmael. Abraham built this House of Worship of ONE-God, later the Meccans out of superstition put idols in it wrongly. When their superstition ended, they removed these idols and restored it to its original form or brilliant status. OK? Please
Regards

OOO

#523 paarsurrey, 

It is put there only as a mark for denoting end of a circle completed by a Muslim.
Regards

OOO

#528 paarsurrey, 

Did I ever express any anger here? G-d bestowed life to every human being with his grace and he has given one freedom to live one’s life as one wants in this world, the accountability will be done by Him in the hereafter. I don’t find any reason to deny it and be angry. Please live as one pleases.
Regards

OOO

#532 paarsurrey, 

“But if these don’t belong to you, then you have no rights to damaging other people’s properties and no rights in damaging public properties; you are breaking the law.”

I agree with one. Please
Regards

OOO

#534 paarsurrey, 

Please paraphrase colored in magenta. I don’t get one exactly.
Regards

OOO

#536 paarsurrey 

What is wrong with smashing the idols?

One may like to read post #1 in another thread, it is connected to this thread.
Please
Regards

OOO

#589 paarsurrey, 

I didn’t get one exactly. Please
Regard

OOO

#592 paarsurrey, 

Could Muhammad do something against the Quranic Revelation? Please
Regards

OOO

#594paarsurrey, Today at 11:07 AM

One’s source as one mentioned was based on history of the time of Muhammad. When was the first history book written narrating the event ? Please
Regards

OOO

 

What is wrong with smashing the idols?

Is it equitable on part of of the non-believers to put idols in a worship-house constructed solely for the worship of ONE-GOD? Please
Regards

OOO

Muhammad spread his religion and peace with the minimum human loss

February 24, 2017

Muhammad spread his religion and peace with the minimum human loss
Seeing the figures of human causalities in “the most murderous century ever” one must note here that Muhammad spread his religion and peace with the minimum human loss, if he and his followers would have not been attacked aggressively; there would have been no human loss.
Muhammad had no intention to capture any lands or to be a king.Right? Please

Regards

Discussion forum < www.religiousforums.com >, is my favorite discussion forum where I write posts and recommend others to discuss/debate on the religious issues.

One may like to click the posts # below to view, to comment and or to join discussion on the above topic, Started by me , or one may discuss the topic here in my blog.

December 22, 2015

 

 

“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son” :Prophecy is most suited on Muhammad

May 13, 2015

One may view, comment and join discussion on < www.religiousforums.com > under the topic <What do you think of the virgin birth of Jesus?>.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/what-do-you-think-of-the-virgin-birth-of-jesus.176754/page-9#post-4286910

Post #174

Aupmanyav said:
Well, for example, myself. My mother was a virgin when she married my father. Am I not born of a woman who was a virgin?

Paarsurrey wrote:
Well in that sense everybody is born of a virgin.
I agree with you.

Paarsurrey wrote:

I further have to add.
Abdullah got married to a Aminah a virgin (not previously married to anybody). Muhammad was born of Abullah and Aminah.
The prophecy most suitably is fulfilled on Muhammad than anybody else, I think.
What does one think? Please.

Regards

Note: One may like to refer to Isaiah 7:14 http://biblehub.com/isaiah/7-14.htm

Why Ahmadi peaceful Muslim?

May 21, 2014

http://atheistenglishman.wordpress.com/believer-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-33

paarsurrey on May 21, 2014 at 4:03 pm said:
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.

http://atheistenglishman.wordpress.com/believer-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-38

AtheistEnglishmanon May 21, 2014 at 4:32 pm said:
Why do you feel the need to insert ‘peaceful’ in the description?

http://atheistenglishman.wordpress.com/believer-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-41

paarsurrey on May 21, 2014 at 7:49 pm said:

We Ahmadiyya peaceful Muslims have the diversity the world needs.

We do not eliminate or exterminate or abhor any human beings. We do not say that Jesus’ or Krishna’s or Buddha’s or Zoroaster’s or Moses’ ways were wrong. We respect them all and say that the above persons were truthful persons and they must have received messages from Allah. But their people did not and could not secure the Message which was the same for every race and region.

The obscure Word with them could be rejuvenated and reconstructed to the original Message but with a lot of effort, as the Renovators would do to an ancient building or monument.

While the same Creator rules the Universe now that ruled in the ancient times; He has mercifully re-sent the Message through Muhammad, respecting the ancient scriptures but encompassing the same in Quran in a compact manner. So the reality and diversity are not compromised but maintained in a graceful way- which is the need of the hour.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 as a truthful Successor of Muhammad is doing this work with peaceful discussion and dialogue.

Regards

Islam always spread by peace and with peace

April 8, 2014

The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the discussion; and only then one should form one’s own sincere and independent opinion.

http://anaivethinker.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/how-i-became-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-214

paarsurrey | April 8, 2014 at 4:16 pm

@anaivethinker | April 3, 2014 at 10:33 pm
@Howie | April 8, 2014 at 1:47 pm
“Islam was started by the tip of the sword” Unquote

There is no teachings of violence in Quran/Islam/Muhammad; absolutely none; and Islam/Quran promote nothing but peace.

The Meccans persecuted Muslims at Mecca; imprisoned them, killed many among them. They did not allow Muslims any free will or any freedom of religion; to the point that the Muslims had to emigrate from Mecca to Medina to save their lives and enjoy religious freedom; some 100 kilometers afar; yet they did not allow Muslims to live in peace at Medina and aggressively attacked them to finish them off the surface of the planet earth well equipped and outnumbered.

They never listened to any reason; they entered into treaties yet always broke them. They openly held that sword will decide between us.

So sword was the choice of Meccans not of Muslims.

Thanks and regards

Islamic wars were not fought to spread the faith

April 8, 2014

The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the discussion; and only then one should form one’s own sincere and independent opinion.

http://anaivethinker.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/how-i-became-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-209

paarsurrey | April 8, 2014 at 10:55 am

@anaivethinker | April 3, 2014 at 10:33 pm
“Islam was started by the tip of the sword”

It is not correct. It is just propaganda with no truth in it.

War was always thrust upon Muslims of Muhammad’s time and they never fought with the intention of spreading the faith.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah, the Second Coming says:

Those who are acquainted with the early history of Islam
are no doubt aware of the cruelty and barbarity that was
perpetrated by the opponents in Mecca, and the number of
innocent people who were killed as a result. But this did
not deter people from embracing Islam.

Even those of limited intelligence could see that its teachings were far
more rational and convincing than those of the idol-worshipers.

When the opponents saw the futility of their
efforts, they decided that the only solution was to assassinate
Muhammad, but God rescued him from their
hands and led him to Medina in safety.

The Meccans, however, persisted in their evil designs, and continued
their efforts to kill him even in Medina. Under these circumstances,
the Muslims had to defend themselves and to
avenge those who attacked them unjustly.

The Islamic wars were not fought to spread the faith but only to protect
the lives of the Muslims.

God only permitted the Muslims to fight when He saw
that the disbelievers had become deserving of death due to
their atrocities. But He also made the provision that anyone
who accepted Islam would be spared. It is this which
has, perhaps, caused the critics to draw erroneous conclusions.

They do not seem to understand that the injunction
was concerned not with coercion but with offering clemency
to those who deserved to die. Calling this teaching
coercive is the height of absurdity.
They merited their punishment, not because they were non-Muslims, but because
they were killers. And since God was aware that
they had perfectly understood the truth of Islam, therefore,
out of His grace, He granted them an opportunity to
atone for their sins.

This is further evidence that Islam did
not teach coercion; rather it provided respite to those who
should have been killed for their bloodshed.

Muslims suffered many hardships, and the degree of
prejudice that existed against them was such that if any
member of a tribe entered Islam he would at once be executed
or would live in constant fear of his life.

Muslims had to fight to win peace. But even under these difficult
circumstances, they never drew the sword unless the two
conditions of war were met.

War was always thrust upon them and they never fought with the intention of spreading
the faith.

But it would be wrong to lay the blame on the teachings of Islam.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/How-to-be-Free-from-Sin-20080806MN.pdf

God of Moses,Buddha,Krishna, Zoroaster, Socrates, Jesus and Muhammad is the same God in attributes

April 4, 2014

The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the post; and then they should form their own sincere and independent opinion.

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/yahwehs-dreadful-power-problem-3/comment-page-1/#comment-13794

PAARSURREY says:
April 4, 2014 at 4:13 pm

@JOHN ZANDE says:April 3, 2014 at 10:58 pm
“Why’s that, Paar? Isn’t the god of the Qur’an (which is the god of the Pentateuch) omnipotent?”

No that is not the perspective of Islam/Quran/Muhammad.

One reason of the revelation of Quran was that the Torah was got corrupted by the Jewish clergy. This is clearly mentioned in Quran. Hence new revelation was needed for guidance.

The other reason was that the Torah at the times of Muhammad did not contain the reason part. Quran provides the reason-content under an elaborate system. It is not commandments only; it is commandment with the wisdom.

We, Muslims are in fact happy that the archaeologists have now proved the points that Quran had mentioned about the Torah.

There is an elaborate system of explanations of the attributes of the One-True-God.

One would observe that invariably Quran provides an attributes of God at the end of a verse; the event hints at the attribute under which action of God took place.

In this meaning the whole Quran explains all attributes of God and as to how these attributes work without contradiction with other attributes; and which attributes overtakes the others.

We can say that God of Moses,Buddha,Krishna, Zoroaster, Socrates, Jesus and Muhammad is the same God in attributes.

Thanks and regards

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/yahwehs-dreadful-power-problem-3/#comment-13795

PAARSURREY says:
April 4, 2014 at 4:31 pm

I think I mentioned these things; but perhaps you did not get it.

Should I quote as to what I wrote about it.

I mentioned that all the archaeological excavations have been done with reference to the cities and places mentioned in the Bible; not with reference to Quran.

There is not a single site that has been excavated with reference to Quran.

Every branch of knowledge has its limitations; archaeology is also not 100% correct.

Regards