Posts Tagged ‘idols’

Muhammad smashed no idols physically. Did he? _________(2)

April 4, 2017

I wrote following post on the above topic in my most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums

Please click the post numbers to get to the discussion:

#730 paarsurrey

The Kaaba was owned:

  1. Equally by Muhammad and the Meccans who were all descendants of Abraham and Ishmael, who had built this worship house for worship of ONE God, Muhammad was even more entitled to it because he wanted to restore it to its original position. Abraham and Ishmael never put any idols in it. Rather than going to other temples and emptying them from the idols , Abraham thought it proper, for peace, to build a house of worship of his own where his progeny could worship ONE God. So, Muhammad had every right to empty it from the idols that were put later on in the house , for which he gave reasonable and brilliant arguments to the Meccans.

Please
Regards

Which God or no-god is Truthful?

April 2, 2017

What is wrong with smashing the idols?
sub-title: Which God or no-god is Truthfu

My most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums

I give here my posts and posts from others, mentioning the post numbers without giving the names of the other persons whose posts I wrote my comments on. Please click the post numbers to get to know the persons.

#705 paarsurrey wrote:

What is wrong with smashing the idols?
sub-title: Which God or no-god is Truthful? (reference post #701 to #703 )

No-God cannot create anything from nothing. Right? Please
The truthful God is ascertained from the attributes of a religion (or no-religion) given in its scripture that are the verities or His attributes reflected in the nature, created by Him. Please
Regards

Muhammad smashed no idols physically. Did he?

March 17, 2017

What is wrong with smashing the idols?

I participated in the discussion on the above topic in my most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums.

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/what-is-wrong-with-smashing-the-idols.194938/

I give here my posts mentioning the post numbers without giving the names of persons in response to whose posts I wrote my comments. Please click the post numbers to get to know the persons.

sc….. said:
Prophet Luqmaan once said to his son “O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice.”

“O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice.”
The verse does not speak of demolishing the idols. Is it? Please
Regards

#177 paarsurrey commented:

“O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice.”
The better point is that one concentrates on the reasons/arguments given in the above verse (any many others) namely doing “gross injustice by believing in idolatry”. Please
Regards

OOO

SR…..said:

#179 paarsurrey, 

“fundamental human right”

Muhammad cared for all the humans rights rather he was the champion of the human rights. We follow Muhammad, not the politically motivated Terrorists of any time and place. Please
Regards

OOO

Note: 1

Search term: Who owned Kaaba in the time of Muhammad?

The Meccans did not own the Kaaba exclusively . The ownership of the Kaaba was hereditary to the heirs of Abraham and Ishmael who built this house of worship and they were strong believers in One God. 

The keys are in the hands of one family

At the time of the Prophet , each aspect to do with the rites of Hajj was in the hands of different sub-groups of the Quraish. Every one of these would eventually lose control of their guardianship of a particular rite except one. On the conquest of Makkah, the Prophet was given the keys to the Kaaba and instead of keeping it in his own possession; he returned them back to the Osman ibn Talha ® of the Bani Shaiba family. They had been the traditional key keepers of the Kaaba for centuries; and the Prophet confirmed them in that role till the end of time by these words

“Take it, O Bani Talha, eternally up to the Day of Resurrection, and it will not be taken from you unless by an unjust, oppressive tyrant.”

Whether Caliph, Sultan or King – the most powerful men in the world have all had to bow to the words of the Prophet

Note:2

“It may be noted here that the idols belonged to Abraham’s own family. Otherwise it was not right and proper for him to break other people’s idols.”

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1701&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2

OOO

#180 paarsurrey 

That is one of the focal points. The idolators must answer, if they please.
Anybody, please
Regards

OOO

#195 paarsurrey

There is no such teaching in Quran. Please
Regards

OOO

#312 paarsurrey, 

“He left the temple”
Did this happen in a temple? Please quote the relevant verse of Quran?
Regards

OOO

#313 paarsurrey, 

I give the event from Wikipedia:
According to Genesis Rabbah 38.13 R. Hiyya, a first generation Jewish sage, tells the following story:

[IMG]
Abraham cast into the fire
Terah was an idol manufacturer who once went away and left Abraham in charge of the store. A man walked in and wished to buy an idol. Abraham asked him how old he was and the man responded “fifty years old.” Abraham then said, “You are fifty years old and would worship a day old statue!” At this point the man left ashamed.

Later, a woman walked in to the store and wanted to make an offering to the idols. So Abraham took a stick, smashed the idols and placed the stick in the hand of the largest idol. When Terah returned he asked Abraham what happened to all the idols. Abraham told him that a woman came in to make an offering to the idols. Then the idols argued about which one should eat the offering first. Then the largest idol took the stick and smashed the other idols.

Terah responded by saying that they are only statues and have no knowledge. Whereupon Abraham responded by saying that you deny their knowledge, yet you worship them! At which point Terah took Abraham to Nimrod.

Nimrod proclaims to Abraham that we should worship fire. Abraham responds that water puts out fire. So Nimrod declares they worship water. Abraham responds that clouds hold water. So Nimrod declares they worship clouds. Abraham responds that wind pushes clouds. So Nimrod declares they worship wind. Abraham responds that people withstand wind.

Nimrod becomes angry with Abraham and declares that Abraham shall be cast into the fire, and if Abraham is correct that there is a real God, that God will save him. Then Abraham is cast into the fire and is saved by God.
Abraham and the Idol Shop – Wikipedia
Regards

OOO

#320 paarsurrey, 

“That is not religious doctrine as I understand the concept.”

I agree with one. There is no such teaching in Quran. Other religions are respected in Quran and by Muhammad. Please
Regards

OOO

#328 paarsurrey, 

As I had stated earlier in a post, the event did not occur in a temple, it occurred in a shop (among many shops there) where idols were made and sold. The very people who made idols with their hands could amend or undo them, without any objection from others.
So, there was no desecration of any temple or the people in a temple.
While at the shop, Abraham started giving reasonable and very brilliant arguments without any anguish or any indignation and with wisdom. Right? Please
Regards

OOO

#331 paarsurrey, Jan 30, 2017

The idols distract one’s attention from the real Godhead, so it serves no purpose. Please
Did the idols ever say that

  • they perform an important role between the humans and the God,
  • and or (Supreme)God had assigned such role to them
  • or that (Supreme)God abhors direct interaction with the righteous human
  • and as such inanimates will perform an intermediary role between the righteous and the (Supreme)God?

There is nothing like that. Right? Please
Regards

OOO

#333 paarsurrey,

Abraham gave suchlike reasonable and rational arguments to the clients of the shop to the people who came to purchase the idols as mentioned in the Genesis Rabbah, I repeat here again, one might have missed it:

Abraham and the Idol Shop
appears in Genesis Rabbah chapter 38 and is a biblical commentary on the early life of Abraham. The commentary explains what happened to Abraham when he was a young boy working in his father’s idol shop. The story has been used as a way to discuss monotheism and faith in general.
According to Genesis Rabbah 38.13 R. Hiyya, a first generation Jewish sage, tells the following story:

Terah was an idol manufacturer who once went away and left Abraham in charge of the store. (1)A man walked in and wished to buy an idol. Abraham asked him how old he was and the man responded “fifty years old.” Abraham then said, “You are fifty years old and would worship a day old statue!” At this point the man left ashamed.

(2)Later, a woman walked in to the store and wanted to make an offering to the idols. So Abraham took a stick, smashed the idols and placed the stick in the hand of the largest idol.
(3)When Terah returned he asked Abraham what happened to all the idols. Abraham told him that a woman came in to make an offering to the idols. Then the idols argued about which one should eat the offering first. Then the largest idol took the stick and smashed the other idols.

(4)Terah responded by saying that they are only statues and have no knowledge. Whereupon Abraham responded by saying that you deny their knowledge, yet you worship them! At which point Terah took Abraham to Nimrod.

Nimrod proclaims to Abraham that we should worship fire. Abraham responds that water puts out fire. So Nimrod declares they worship water. Abraham responds that clouds hold water. So Nimrod declares they worship clouds. Abraham responds that wind pushes clouds. So Nimrod declares they worship wind. Abraham responds that people withstand wind.

Nimrod becomes angry with Abraham and declares that Abraham shall be cast into the fire, and if Abraham is correct that there is a real God, that God will save him. Then Abraham is cast into the fire and is saved by God.
Abraham and the Idol Shop – Wikipedia
Please see the above (some four) arguments together with the demonstration done by Abraham. It was never done in a temple but in a manufacturer’s shop. One may like to ask the respected Judaism people in the forum about the rationality of Abraham.
Nothing was done by Abraham that was against the humanity. Rather. what was done to Abraham was sheer against humanity, a human being was set to fire alive . Right? Please
Anybody, please
Regards

OOO

#417 paarsurrey, 

Coming to the topic, please
What is wrong with smashing the idols?

The statues that Abraham broke, to demonstrate an argument, were not yet sold for worship, neither for the private worship nor for the worship in a temple.
Regards

OOO

#424 paarsurrey,

There is no idol in Mecca now, all the idols were removed by the Meccan non-believers toward the end of Muhammad’s life.
The Meccans were from the line of Abraham through his elder son Ishmael. Abraham built this House of Worship of ONE-God, later the Meccans out of superstition put idols in it wrongly. When their superstition ended, they removed these idols and restored it to its original form or brilliant status. OK? Please
Regards

OOO

#523 paarsurrey, 

It is put there only as a mark for denoting end of a circle completed by a Muslim.
Regards

OOO

#528 paarsurrey, 

Did I ever express any anger here? G-d bestowed life to every human being with his grace and he has given one freedom to live one’s life as one wants in this world, the accountability will be done by Him in the hereafter. I don’t find any reason to deny it and be angry. Please live as one pleases.
Regards

OOO

#532 paarsurrey, 

“But if these don’t belong to you, then you have no rights to damaging other people’s properties and no rights in damaging public properties; you are breaking the law.”

I agree with one. Please
Regards

OOO

#534 paarsurrey, 

Please paraphrase colored in magenta. I don’t get one exactly.
Regards

OOO

#536 paarsurrey 

What is wrong with smashing the idols?

One may like to read post #1 in another thread, it is connected to this thread.
Please
Regards

OOO

#589 paarsurrey, 

I didn’t get one exactly. Please
Regard

OOO

#592 paarsurrey, 

Could Muhammad do something against the Quranic Revelation? Please
Regards

OOO

#594paarsurrey, Today at 11:07 AM

One’s source as one mentioned was based on history of the time of Muhammad. When was the first history book written narrating the event ? Please
Regards

OOO

 

What is wrong with smashing the idols?

Is it equitable on part of of the non-believers to put idols in a worship-house constructed solely for the worship of ONE-GOD? Please
Regards

OOO

“Exactly Who or What do We Really Worship?”

January 4, 2014

syzygyastro has started a hub on the above topic at HubPages which could be viewed at the following link:

http://syzygyastro.hubpages.com/hub/Exactly-Who-or-What-do-We-Really-Worship

Paarsurrey has contributed the following post on the topic:

paarsurrey wrote:
quoting from the hub/post:

“But as far as the texts of some religions are concerned, especially Judaism and Islam, the making of any image of anything is frowned upon to say the least.”

Moses forbade making any idols to worship:
Deuteronomy 5:8
8“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

http://biblehub.com/niv/deuteronomy/5.htm

Quran also mentions it at many places not to worship idols:
[29:17] And remember Abraham when he said to his people, ‘Worship Allah and fear Him. That is better for you if you understand.
[29:18] ‘You only worship idols beside Allah, and you forge a lie. Those whom you worship beside Allah have no power to provide sustenance for you. Then seek sustenance from Allah, and worship Him, and be grateful to Him. Unto Him will you be brought back.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.p

The concept of worship is to inculcate the attributes of the One-True-God by those who worship Him; the attributes have no physical form and making them physical does not help in any way.

yzygyastro wrote:

Today we have plenty of idols including others like powerful figures, rock stars, movie stars and the like. The overall time consuming activity of most people in the developed and developing world is money and there is a warning in the NT in regard to the worship of two masters. See Matthew 6: 24,25 and also Luke 16:13

Paarsurrey says:

Actually with Christianity it started as soon as they deviated from the real path of Jesus and the Christians started following the seed of the Anti-Christ I mean Paul and the Church- his associate; they carved Trinity out of the thin air ; and then idols and statues followed, very much against the elaborate teachings of Moses and Jesus.

Did Jesus make any statue or idol himself or ever instructed other to make one?

Buddha did not command to make statues of his person

March 30, 2013

80px-Dharma_Wheel_svg

2005-01-19-lotus-pond

Neither did Buddha worship any idol nor did he command to make any statues or worship them. All images or statues of Buddha have been without any authorization from him.

The Buddhist did almost the same thing as did Christians. Christians invented Trinity while Jesus believed in one true God.

The Buddhists made statues and some denomination of them as I understand perhaps worship them. Buddha won’t like them doing this, in my opinion.

One should note here the teachings of Moses:

[1] I am the Lord your God: you shall not make to yourselves any idol or graven thing, neither shall you erect pillars, nor set up a remarkable stone in your land, to adore it: for I am the Lord your God

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/03026.htm

This proves the principle that all revealed religions were against making any idols or idolatry; it is their followers who adopted this practice some centuries later.