https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/why-is-islam-so-dangerous.220170/page-25#post-6089470
“Is there some kind of Islamic reform possible?”
#491
Islam is already under reformation under the peaceful Ahmadiyya Islam, under leadership of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908.
Please
Regards
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/infallibility.211752/page-33#post-6082955
Infallibility
One may like to read my post #77,in another thread which is very relevant here.
Regards
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is only a Successor of Muhammad in our times. Even Muhammad could make mistakes of understanding and did not have any supernatural powers:
AYAH al-Isra` 17:93
Arabic![[IMG]](https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.assoc-amazon.com%2Fe%2Fir%3Ft%3Dislamawakened-20%26l%3Das2%26o%3D1%26a%3DB0031WEVY0&hash=1f37ab7f2d6105b240711e6ddf058dc6)
![[IMG]](https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamawakened.com%2Fquran%2Fimages%2Fzoom.jpg&hash=433c15678635dc11bb8217814bdb5b1e)
Transliteration![[IMG]](https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.assoc-amazon.com%2Fe%2Fir%3Ft%3Dislamawakened-20%26l%3Das2%26o%3D1%26a%3D8187385073&hash=6ad2663b2ddb68f33e0825b7c2ad2905)
Literal
(Word by Word) Or is for you a house of ornament or you ascend into the sky. And never we will believe in your ascension until you bring down to us a book we could read it.” Say, “Glorified (is) my Lord! “What am I but a human, a Messenger.”
Sher Ali![[IMG]](https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.assoc-amazon.com%2Fe%2Fir%3Ft%3Dislamawakened-20%26l%3Das2%26o%3D1%26a%3D1853723142&hash=fa867979424ba9d3c331ab321c3bad9a)
John Medows Rodwell![[IMG]](https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.assoc-amazon.com%2Fe%2Fir%3Ft%3Dislamawakened-20%26l%3Das2%26o%3D1%26a%3D0553587528&hash=fe55055b4fe96e12bf4a16f8c2b185c9)
al-Isra` 17:93
Regards
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is only a Successor of Muhammad in our times.
Again from G-d:
Arabic
Transliteration
Literal
(Word by Word) Perhaps you (would) kill yourself* that not they become believers.
Sher Ali
George Sale![[IMG]](https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.assoc-amazon.com%2Fe%2Fir%3Ft%3Dislamawakened-20%26l%3Das2%26o%3D1%26a%3D1115643061&hash=6092b57f5c6f0b2e4538eb928c9e083c)
John Medows Rodwell
ash-Shu`ara` 26:3
*Muhammad
A messenger of G-d has to deliver the message G-d gave him, else, he has not done his duty towards humanity, and in his footsteps, the believers also.
I know one won’t like it.
Regards
Please view my post and comment on it or join the discussion on < www.religiousforums.com >
“A reason why a revealed scripture must provide rational arguments in support of its teachings is that the purpose of a scripture is not served if people merely read and repeat it parrot-like, thinking that they have thus merited salvation. Rather, the highest objective of a revealed scripture is to provide rational arguments in support of its teachings so that people may attain absolute and unshakable certainty-the kind of certainty through which all their actions, words and beliefs are set right and they recognize right as right and wrong as wrong, thereby attaining true piety.
People live in great peril as long as they languish in the hell of ignorance and blindly follow teachings inherited from their forefathers-teachings in which they have already lost faith due to apathy and gross materialism. Such are the people described in this verse of the holy Quran:
[17:73] whoever is blind in this world shall be blind in the next world also, indeed they shall be worse off.
(Surah Bani Isra’il, Part 15) *
Any scripture that fails to establish its own divine origin or the divine origin of its principles cannot open for mankind the door to eternal bliss. Instead of leading them on the path of knowledge and wisdom, it stunts their spiritual growth and casts them into the bottomless pit of blind following wherein they dwell like corpses, neither hearing nor seeing nor understanding. The followers of such scriptures have little regard for reason, logic, contemplation or insight, and are perfectly content with myths and stories of the past, with no desire to find the truth.
Having abandoned the gifts of reflection and deliberation and having stifled their innate capabilities, they have become worse than non-rational beasts.”
Unquote
“Brahin-e-Ahmadiyya” by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Pages 107-108: Footnote Number 5
Click to access Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya-Parts1-2.pdf
* [17:73] But whoso is blind in this world will be blind in the Hereafter, and even more astray from the way.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=17&verse=73
Richard Carrier a world renowned, author of several books as well as numerous articles online and in print with a Ph.D. in ancient history from Columbia University, he specializes in the modern philosophy of naturalism and humanism, the origins of Christianity, and the intellectual history of Greece and Rome, with particular expertise in ancient philosophy, science and technology. His parents were freethinking Methodists (mother was church secretary). He went to Sunday School and to church on holy days. He got converted to Philosophical Taoist at the tender age of 15 and then got converted Atheist (Secular Humanist) at the age of 21. He is reported to have done Extensive study of philosophy and world religions, formal and informal.
I wanted to inquire about this phenomenon and hence asked him the following question:
“I understand that you were born a Methodist Christian and decided to convert to Taoism at a very tender age of 15 years and then converted to Atheism at the age of 21 years.Under what principled approach you did that on both occasions?”
He replied and I quote from him:
“Taoism, I was converted the same irrational way all religious people are. Leaving Taoism? Reading, study, experience, and application of scientific knowledge and logical reasoning.”
A discussion ensued which could be viewed by accessing the following link.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/4458#comment-219534
paarsurrey
April 30, 2014 at 2:36 pm (awaiting moderation)
@Richard Carrier : April 30, 2014 at 8:45 am
I don’t agree with you that everybody gets converted to another religion without a proper principled approach, irrationally.
I understand your observation, “There are thousands of false beliefs. We cannot read all their holy books nor should we.”
One could be born in any religion or even without a religion. It is beyond one to decide where to be born. Wherever one is born; that starts one’s journey towards truth.
The tools make easy for one to do a job. It is therefore important for one first to find a tool that gives equal opportunity to every religion to search.
Using a tool and then making a comparative study of religions to find which one, at a given period of time, is the most truthful religion is therefore most reasonable and rational.
I give here one such principle of comparative study of religions which was suggested by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in the beginning of an essay that was read in a Conference of Great Religions held at Lahore in 1896; and was later published in a book form titled “The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam” translated in many languages of the world.
I give below the principle in precisely his words:
“It is necessary that a claim and the reasons in support of it must be set forth from a revealed book”.
“I consider it essential that everyone who follows a book, believing it to be revealed, should base his exposition upon that book and should not so extend the scope of his advocacy of his faith as if he is compiling a new book.”
Since one changed one’s religion two times without a principled approach; I think one should check again the truthfulness of one’s worldview from the start.
Regards
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad with his son
I
Paarsurrey wrote following comments on Richard Carrier’s “Freethought Blogs”.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/4973
paarsurrey
April 23, 2014 at 12:57 pm (awaiting moderation).
“Craig’s fifth and last item of “evidence” is the claim that God (we’re to assume) talks to Christians…but (we’re to assume) all the people of all the other religions throughout history (paganism, Islam, Hinduism, Mormonism) who claim God is speaking to them are wrong–yet when Craig says God speaks to him, he alone is right. Because reasons.
Craig says, “down through history Christians have found through Jesus a personal acquaintance with God that has transformed their lives,” but that is a classic example of his deceitfully misleading method of argument, selectively omitting all the evidence against him, and smoothing over all the serious problems even with the evidence he is singling out (see the first four chapters of The Christian Delusion, as well as the seventh, and eighth). Because an honest statement would be, “Down through history many people have found a thousand different god-beliefs, from paganism to Hinduism to Islam to Mormonism to Kao Dai, and even atheistic philosophical worldviews, from Humanism to Taoism to Marxism, that have transformed their lives, and this was even happening for tens of thousands of years before anyone had ever heard from any god claiming to be Jesus.” Unquote
Craig must be a very biased person for Christianity and against other religions.
The One-True-God ( definitely not Jesus who never died on the Cross and never resurrected from the physical dead and never ascended to heaven), did talk to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 and I quote from him:
“The Speaker (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) is Honored with Divine Converse”
“I would be guilty of doing great wrong to my fellow beings if I were not to declare at this stage that divine bounty has bestowed upon me the status which I have just defined and has honored me with the kind of converse the features of which I have just set out in detail, so that I should bestow sight upon the blind and should guide the seekers of the One Who has been so far lost, and should give to those who accept the truth the good news of that holy fountain of which many speak but which few find.
I wish to assure the listeners that the God, meeting with Whom is the salvation and eternal welfare of man, cannot be found without following the Holy Quran.
Would that the people were to see that which I have seen, and were to hear that which I have heard, and should lay aside mere tales and should run to the truth! The cleansing water which removes all doubt, that mirror through which that Supreme Being can be seen, is converse with the Divine that I have just mentioned. Let him whose soul seeks the truth arise and search.
I tell you truly that if souls are charged with true seeking and hearts develop true thirst; people would search for that way and would seek that path. How can that way be discovered, and how can the intervening veil be removed? I assure all seekers that it is Islam alone which conveys the good news of that path. All other people have since long sealed up divine revelation. Be sure, however, that this seal is not imposed by God, but is an excuse that is put forward by man on account of his privation.
Be sure that as it is not possible that we should be able to see without eyes, or should be able to hear without ears, or should be able to speak without a tongue, in the same way it is not possible that without the help of the Quran we should be able to behold the countenance of the True Beloved. I was young and am now old but I have not encountered anyone who has quaffed the cup of this visible understanding except out of this holy fountain.”
Page 206-207 “The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam”.
Click to access Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf
Thanks and regards
OOO
These are the days of Armageddon – the final battle between good and evil –The peaceful Version! 3
Has Armageddon already started with the advent of Second Coming 1835-1908 ?– The peaceful Version! 2
The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the discussion; and only then one should form one’s own sincere and independent opinion.
http://anaivethinker.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/how-i-became-an-atheist/comment-page-1/#comment-209
paarsurrey | April 8, 2014 at 10:55 am
@anaivethinker | April 3, 2014 at 10:33 pm
“Islam was started by the tip of the sword”
It is not correct. It is just propaganda with no truth in it.
War was always thrust upon Muslims of Muhammad’s time and they never fought with the intention of spreading the faith.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah, the Second Coming says:
Those who are acquainted with the early history of Islam
are no doubt aware of the cruelty and barbarity that was
perpetrated by the opponents in Mecca, and the number of
innocent people who were killed as a result. But this did
not deter people from embracing Islam.
Even those of limited intelligence could see that its teachings were far
more rational and convincing than those of the idol-worshipers.
When the opponents saw the futility of their
efforts, they decided that the only solution was to assassinate
Muhammad, but God rescued him from their
hands and led him to Medina in safety.
The Meccans, however, persisted in their evil designs, and continued
their efforts to kill him even in Medina. Under these circumstances,
the Muslims had to defend themselves and to
avenge those who attacked them unjustly.
The Islamic wars were not fought to spread the faith but only to protect
the lives of the Muslims.
God only permitted the Muslims to fight when He saw
that the disbelievers had become deserving of death due to
their atrocities. But He also made the provision that anyone
who accepted Islam would be spared. It is this which
has, perhaps, caused the critics to draw erroneous conclusions.
They do not seem to understand that the injunction
was concerned not with coercion but with offering clemency
to those who deserved to die. Calling this teaching
coercive is the height of absurdity.
They merited their punishment, not because they were non-Muslims, but because
they were killers. And since God was aware that
they had perfectly understood the truth of Islam, therefore,
out of His grace, He granted them an opportunity to
atone for their sins.
This is further evidence that Islam did
not teach coercion; rather it provided respite to those who
should have been killed for their bloodshed.
Muslims suffered many hardships, and the degree of
prejudice that existed against them was such that if any
member of a tribe entered Islam he would at once be executed
or would live in constant fear of his life.
Muslims had to fight to win peace. But even under these difficult
circumstances, they never drew the sword unless the two
conditions of war were met.
War was always thrust upon them and they never fought with the intention of spreading
the faith.
But it would be wrong to lay the blame on the teachings of Islam.
Click to access How-to-be-Free-from-Sin-20080806MN.pdf
The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the discussion; and only then one should form one’s own sincere and independent opinion.
paarsurrey says:
April 7, 2014 at :
@(Matt) Brisancian :April 6, 2014
“If you would, please give your criterion for falsifiability of religious texts as either divinely inspired or merely human in origin. However, the criterion cannot be circularly dependent upon the text itself or the author(s).
Your answer will be the beginning of my response.” Unquote
One could be born in any religion or without a religion. It is beyond one to decide where to be born. Wherever one is born; that starts one’s journey to find the truth.
The tools make easy for one to do a job. It is therefore important for one first to find a tool that gives equal opportunity to every religion to search.
Using a tool and then making a comparative study of religions to find which one is the most truthful religion is therefore most reasonable and rational.
I give here a principle of comparative study of religions which was suggested by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in an essay that was read in a Conference of Great Religions held at Lahore in 1896; and was later published in a book form titled “The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam” translated in many languages of the world.
I give below the principle and its explanation in precisely his words:
“It is necessary that a claim and the reasons in support of it must be set forth from a revealed book”
“I consider it essential that everyone who follows a book, believing it to be revealed, should base his exposition upon that book and should not so extend the scope of his advocacy of his faith as if he is compiling a new book.
As it is my purpose today to establish the merits of the Holy Quran and to demonstrate its excellence, it is incumbent upon me not to state anything which is not comprehended in the Quran and to set forth everything on the basis of its verses and in accord with their meaning and that which might be inferred from them, so that those attending the Conference should encounter no difficulty in carrying out a comparison between the teachings of different religions.”
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad adhered to this principle and answered the five important questions set by the moderators of the Conference:
1. The physical, moral and spiritual states of man
2. The state of man after death.
3. The object of man’s life and the means to its attainment.
4. The operation of the practical ordinances of the Law in this life and the next.
5. Sources of Divine knowledge.
One could access the following link to read the book available online, freely:
Click to access Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf
The Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics don’t have a book to follow. They extol science to find answers to all the questions in the world. Although the questions don’t fall within the scope of science and would overburden it; yet they are open to answer with the condition that they quote some standards text book of science for the claims to answers as also to the reasons given specifying the discipline of science that legitimately deals with it.
Please take your time for your journey of search and as to how the criterion is to be applied. Please read the small book mentioned above; that will provide ready-made solution to many questions that arise.
Wish you good-luck.
Thanks and regards
I would like the viewers of Paarsurrey blog to access the following link to know the context of the dialogue and to form their own independent reasonable opinion:
PAARSURREY says:
March 27, 2014 at 6:27 pm
@JOHN ZANDE :March 27, 2014 at 11:52 am
“Tell me, Paar, what are “His attributes,” and how do you know?
NOTE: please don’t say the Qu’ran ” Unquote
I don’t know as to why one has an aversion to Quran.
What harm did it to the Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics/Humanists etc?
Anyway; for the attributes of One-True-God (Allah Tao Yahweh Ahura-Mazda Parmeshawara Eshawara) one may like to read below, no compulsion:
The way of life presented by Lao-tzu (6th century BC), a contemporary of Confucius, is known as Taoism.
In Taoism, eternal truth is embodied in a being known as Tao whose attributes are spiritual and holy rather than material. Tao can be aptly defined as a personification of eternal virtues. They are precisely the same attributes as ascribed to God in Islam and other Divinely revealed religions. Taoism teaches man to completely submit to Truth (Tao), and to strive to modulate Tao. Tao is the model, and Taoism is the way to gain nearness to this model.
The same is the treatment in the Holy Quran regarding the relationship between God and man:
The hues of God! And who is more beautiful in hues than God?—and Him alone do we worship. 2:139
In Islam God is described and introduced through His attributes and the goal set for Muslims is to emulate them to modulate their lives.
The description of Tao, presented by Lao-tzu, is quite similar to the attributes of God mentioned in the Quran. He writes:
‘The great Tao is vast. He is on the left and He is on the right. All creatures depend upon Him, and the care of them tires Him not. He brings creation to completion, without seeking reward. He provides for all His creation, but requires nothing for Himself, so He may be considered small. All creatures turn to Him for their needs, yet He keeps nothing for Himself, thus He may be named ‘the Supreme’. He does not consider Himself great and because of this He is truly Great.’
Again we have another description:
‘Looked for but not visible, such a Being may be colorless. Listened for but not heard, such a Being may be called Silent. Grasped for but not caught, such may be called Concealed. No one can comprehend the ultimate source of these three qualities, but they are found in one Being. Though not luminous yet below Him there is no darkness. Being infinite He cannot be described. All His shapes keep returning to nothingness, thus we can say He is Shapeless; His image is without form. He is beyond comprehension (being the rarest of things). Try to reach His beginning, no beginning can be seen. Seek His end, no end can be perceived. Therefore, follow the ancient ways and improve your present.’
Also, in another verse the description of Tao runs as follows:
‘He is indivisible and His true nature cannot be grasped. All creation originates from Him. He existed before heaven and earth were created. He is One and alone without form or sound. He exists independently without any support. Nothing changes in Him. He is in constant motion, but never tires. He can be called the Begetter of the universe.’
The description of Tao given in the above passages is also found in different verses of the Quran, which when read together, reproduce everything covered by the above quotes. The image of God thus described in the Holy Quran, is summed up by the founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, the late Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) of Qadian (India), in the following words:
‘He is near yet far, distant yet close… He is highest of high, yet it cannot be said that there is anyone below Him farther than He. He is in heaven, but it cannot be said that He is not on Earth. He combines in Himself all the most perfect attributes and manifests the virtues which are truly worthy of praise.’
It is pertinent to note that Chinese philosophy had its roots in religion, but with the passage of time its religious origin was obscured. Its followers adhered to the philosophy itself but thought it unnecessary to have any direct link with the source which had nourished it in the past. Consequently, the image of God was gradually impersonalised and the followers of Tao ceased to cultivate a personal relationship with Him as a Supreme Conscious Living Being.
“Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge & Truth” Mirza Tahir Ahmad
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_2_section_4.html
Regards
PAARSURREY says:
March 27, 2014 at 9:44 pm
@JOHN ZANDE : March 27, 2014 at 11:52 am
“We’ve already proven that Mo” Unquote
When and whence and who proved it?
Please
PAARSURREY says:
March 27, 2014 at 9:54 pm
@N℮ÜҐ☼N☮☂℮Ṧ : March 27, 2014 at 8:17 pm
Quote
“even in the coldest day, drops of sweat would fall from his forehead”
“at the moment of inspiration, anxiety pressed upon the Prophet, and his countenance was troubled”
“the muscles between his neck and shoulders were trembling”
Mohammed: “The Revelation is always brought to me by an angel — sometimes the angel appears to me in the shape of a human and speaks to me.” Unquote
Please quote from Quran where this is mentioned.
Will you? Please
PAARSURREY says:
March 21, 2014 at 9:59 pm
@JOHN ZANDE says:March 21, 2014 at 8:46 pm
“Clearly there must be some sanction somewhere, else Islam wouldn’t have such a vibrant history of slavery. Christianity, of course, is no better. One’s as archaic as the other.”
It is the rulers that do such things; they do things in the name of religion; and exploit people under cover.
Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus, Socrates, Muhammad (and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the rightful successor of Muhammad in our present era) gave no teachings to make others a slave. There is no such teaching in Quran; I am absolutely certain about it.
Other founders of religions- the Messengers Prophets of the One-True-God whose names I have given above- their followers are exhorted to defend them in this connection in the first place.
If they fail to defend them; then I will defend them also after purification of their scriptures as per principles outlined in Quran.
Please get help from other Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics/Humanists who have read Quran themselves; to kindly quote just a single verse, repeat a single verse, from Quran in this connection. Please don’t give a list; if one has a list then select ONE verse that justify your viewpoint the most, for discussion here.
One could contact the person who wrote the article on the subject from the link provided by one and get help from him, if he can help.
Thanks and regards
PAARSURREY says:
March 22, 2014 at 4:59 pm
@BOBBIERILEYJR says:March 22, 2014 at 12:12 am
“Most telling is that slavery is still practiced in the Sudan, Niger, Mauritania and a few other corners of the Muslim world.” Unquote
It has got nothing to do with Quran/Islam/Muhammad. There is no commandment or teaching in Quran to make one a slave.
I think it will be clear to one if one listens the following Friday Sermon from Mirza Masroor Ahmad- the Head of the World-Wide Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
He is the fifth rightful Successor to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) – The Promised Messiah – The Second Coming:
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVBxj5rVA8k?feature=player_embedded&w=640&h=360%5D
The original Sermon was delivered in Urdu; its translations are available in following languages:
Urdu, English, Albanian, Arabic, Bengali, Bosnian, Bulgarian, French, German, Indonesian, Malayalam, Russian, Spanish, Swahili, Tamil, Turkish
Please click the language of your choice by accessing the following link:
http://www.alislam.org/friday-sermon/2011-11-25.html
PAARSURREY says:
March 23, 2014 at 9:19 pm
@BOBBIERILEYJR says: March 22, 2014 at 8:01 pm
“A fatwa” Unqoute
A fatwa means an opinion. Opinions could differ; it could be and is an unsubstantiated opinion and not supported by the context verses of Quran or other verses of Quran.
A fatwa is not a verse of Quran; and is not binding on others.
If a sinful Mullah believes wrongly for his vested interest; he is responsible for it not Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
You have referred to Chapter 23; please read the following four pages in its verse 23:7 for its explanation:
http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1781®ion=E1&CR=
http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1782®ion=E1
http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1783®ion=E1
http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1784®ion=E1
It will make things clear for you.
Regards
paarsurrey 
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