One may like to join discussion on following interesting thread on RF my favorite discussion forum and view my post #24
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Excerpt from Rxxxxx’s Post: ” Assume on the very first day when Gabriel speaks to prophet Muhammad tells him that Jesus is not the Son of God and on the other hand Gabriel states that Allah is the God.” View full post of the poster at the end of my response.
paarsurrey wrote Post #24
This is not as to how the things happened.
When G-d has a Converse with a person, the person knows without a doubt that G-d/Allah is talking to him or he is talking to G-d/Allah, for sure and with certainty.
Muhammad did not invent the word Allah, the Meccan Arabians believed in Allah, they only worshiped idols as the intercessors to Him, out of their superstitions. Muhammad”s father’s name was Abdullah (Abd-Allah) meaning the Servant of Allah.
Quran mentions as to how Allah had a Converse with Moses:
[20:9] اَللّٰہُ لَاۤ اِلٰہَ اِلَّا ہُوَ ؕ لَہُ الۡاَسۡمَآءُ الۡحُسۡنٰی ﴿۹﴾
Allah — there is no God but He. His are the most beautiful names.
20:10] وَ ہَلۡ اَتٰٮکَ حَدِیۡثُ مُوۡسٰی ۘ﴿۱۰﴾
And has the story of Moses come to thee?
20:11] اِذۡ رَاٰ نَارًا فَقَالَ لِاَہۡلِہِ امۡکُثُوۡۤا اِنِّیۡۤ اٰنَسۡتُ نَارًا لَّعَلِّیۡۤ اٰتِیۡکُمۡ مِّنۡہَا بِقَبَسٍ اَوۡ اَجِدُ عَلَی النَّارِ ہُدًی ﴿۱۱﴾
When he saw a fire, he said to his family, ‘Tarry ye, I perceive a fire; perhaps I may bring you a brand therefrom or find guidance at the fire.’
20:12] فَلَمَّاۤ اَتٰٮہَا نُوۡدِیَ یٰمُوۡسٰی ﴿ؕ۱۲﴾
And when he came to it, he was called by a voice, ‘O Moses,
20:13]
اِنِّیۡۤ اَنَا رَبُّکَ فَاخۡلَعۡ نَعۡلَیۡکَ ۚ اِنَّکَ بِالۡوَادِ الۡمُقَدَّسِ طُوًی ﴿ؕ۱۳﴾
‘Verily, I am thy Lord. So take off thy shoes; for thou art in the sacred Valley of Tuwa.
20:14] وَ اَنَا اخۡتَرۡتُکَ فَاسۡتَمِعۡ لِمَا یُوۡحٰی ﴿۱۴﴾
‘And I have chosen thee; so hearken to what is revealed.
20:15] اِنَّنِیۡۤ اَنَا اللّٰہُ لَاۤ اِلٰہَ اِلَّاۤ اَنَا فَاعۡبُدۡنِیۡ ۙ وَ اَقِمِ الصَّلٰوۃَ لِذِکۡرِیۡ ﴿۱۵﴾
‘Verily, I am Allah; there is no God beside Me. So serve Me, and observe Prayer for My remembrance.
20:16] اِنَّ السَّاعَۃَ اٰتِیَۃٌ اَکَادُ اُخۡفِیۡہَا لِتُجۡزٰی کُلُّ نَفۡسٍۭ بِمَا تَسۡعٰی ﴿۱۶﴾
‘Surely, the Hour is coming; I am going to manifest it, that every soul may be recompensed for its endeavour.
20:17] فَلَا یَصُدَّنَّکَ عَنۡہَا مَنۡ لَّا یُؤۡمِنُ بِہَا وَ اتَّبَعَ ہَوٰٮہُ فَتَرۡدٰی ﴿۱۷﴾
‘So let not him who believes not therein and follows his own evil inclinations, turn thee away therefrom, lest thou perish.
20:18] وَ مَا تِلۡکَ بِیَمِیۡنِکَ یٰمُوۡسٰی ﴿۱۸﴾
‘And what is that in thy right hand, O Moses?’
20:19] قَالَ ہِیَ عَصَایَ ۚ اَتَوَکَّوٴُا عَلَیۡہَا وَ اَہُشُّ بِہَا عَلٰی غَنَمِیۡ وَ لِیَ فِیۡہَا مَاٰرِبُ اُخۡرٰی ﴿۱۹﴾
He replied, ‘This is my rod, I lean on it, and beat down therewith leaves for my sheep, and I have also other uses for it.’
20:20] قَالَ اَلۡقِہَا یٰمُوۡسٰی ﴿۲۰﴾
He said, ‘Cast it down, O Moses.’
20:21] فَاَلۡقٰہَا فَاِذَا ہِیَ حَیَّۃٌ تَسۡعٰی ﴿۲۱﴾
So he cast it down, and behold! it was a serpent running.
20:22] قَالَ خُذۡہَا وَ لَا تَخَفۡ ٝ سَنُعِیۡدُہَا سِیۡرَتَہَا الۡاُوۡلٰی ﴿۲۲﴾
God said, ‘Catch hold of it, and fear not. We shall restore it to its former condition.
20:23] وَ اضۡمُمۡ یَدَکَ اِلٰی جَنَاحِکَ تَخۡرُجۡ بَیۡضَآءَ مِنۡ غَیۡرِ سُوۡٓءٍ اٰیَۃً اُخۡرٰی ﴿ۙ۲۳﴾
‘And draw thy hand close under thy armpit. It shall come forth white, without any disease — another Sign,
20:24] لِنُرِیَکَ مِنۡ اٰیٰتِنَا الۡکُبۡرٰی ﴿ۚ۲۴﴾
‘That We may show thee some of Our greater Signs.
The Holy Quran – Chapter: 20: TaHa
So, it is a direct Converse of G-d with the Messenger of G-d in which a dialogue takes place and the Messenger has no doubt about it, please. Right friend, please?
Regards
ooooooooooo
Rxxxxxxx said: I have a question about the Quran/Islam. First of all, don’t take me wrongly, you all are great people. So, I’m not asking this question to personally attack you. Instead, I’m asking this to show you an issue with Abrahamic religions as in general.
So here is a hypothetical scenario to explain the issue:
Assume on the very first day when Gabriel speaks to prophet Muhammad tells him that Jesus is not the Son of God and on the other hand Gabriel states that Allah is the God. Since he has no clue who this intelligence is, he goes to so many Christian leaders and tries to clarify this point (God spoke to them first and they are the best people to know about their God than anyone else). So here what kind of response we can expect from the Christian leaders? Will they tell prophet Muhammad that the claim made by the intelligence is true?
Let me show you the issue here:
Based on recorded events we know that either Christian leaders would think that prophet Muhammad is crazy to think that Allah is the God or if not Christian leaders would think that an intelligence is deceiving prophet Muhammad(Cause by the 7th century, Christian leaders believe that Jesus is the God’s son). And better than anyone else Christian leaders know who their God is (even before Prophet Muhammad was born to the world they know this. So prophet Muhammad should not say that Jesus is not the Son of God and tell that Allah is the God.). Because of this controversy, I like to know, based on what reasoning prophet Muhammad came to the conclusion that Allah is the God and Jesus is just a prophet? is it because of the claim made by the intelligence itself? If an intelligence told this to prophet Muhammad, does that mean that the intelligence lied to prophet Muhammad (by telling Jesus is a prophet and Allah is the God)? This conflict of beliefs/claims, is a huge problem in Abrahamic religions.
(To make sense of this issue, you can also imagine the scenario where an intelligence speaking to you today and telling you that Leonardo is the God and Jesus is a prophet sent by God(Leonardo). And now you are conveying this message to Christian leaders. What will they think of you? Crazy? Or someone is deceiving you? On the other hand, someone can ask the question, “how did you come to the conclusion that Leonardo is the true God; how do you know if an intelligence is not deceiving you?” In prophet Muhammad’s case, how did prophet Muhammad come to the conclusion that Allah is the God and Jesus is not the Son of God? And how he came to know that the intelligence was lying or not?)
(Also, imagine the situation if I tell Muslim people and Christian people today that Leonardo is the God. Further, that Allah is not the God and Jesus is not the Son of God either. What will they think of me?)
Because of this issue, either we have to say that someone deceived prophet Muhammad or if not we can say that someone has deceived Christian leaders.
To fix this issue, let’s say that someone says that the Christianity was created by Satan. However, the Quran clearly says the following:
i). “The Quran (Q21:91 and Q66:12) says that God blew through his angel into Mary and she, although being chaste bore Jesus without any father.”
ii). Further the Quran says:
Quran 3:42 ‘… O Mary! God has chosen you and purified you and again he has chosen you above all women of all nations of the worlds’
Quran 5:75 ‘… His (Jesus) mother (Mary) was a woman of truth.’
Quran 21:91 ‘And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of our spirit and we made her and her son a sign for all peoples.’
Quran 3:3 ‘She was assigned to the care of Zachariah.’ (Guardian & Uncle)
Source: https://www.islamicity.org/5645/mary-and-jesus-in-islam/
Meaning, whatever Christian leaders believe, is because of Allah’s actions (if we consider this line of thinking). Let’s say after Allah spreading his word about the Quran by appointing Jesus as a prophet, Satan confused Christian leaders. However, then that means, Allah knew exactly that Christian leaders were deceived by Satan after he sending Jesus. But Allah did not say anything to Christian leaders(till the 7th century and even up to this day, he totally neglected the issue) and instead of fixing the issue, he used prophet Muhammad and worked with him for 24 years(had enough time to fix it) to spread the word about the Quran. By doing so, he made the situation worst. Cause because of the Quran, now Christians and Muslim people have a reason to argue and kill each other as well based on religious beliefs.
Therefore, if we take this hypothesis to fix the issue, this hypothesis tells us that Allah has no knowledge or an intelligence to resolve human issues, other than creating more and more conflicts or if not, this whole story implies that an intelligence was deceiving prophet Muhammad. How can we explain these controversies? If so, based on what reasoning?
paarsurrey 