Posts Tagged ‘Moses’

Judaism: Book of Exodus neither written by Moses nor dictated by him

May 30, 2015

<www.religiousforums.com> in the <thread Judaism: Book of Exodus neither written by Moses nor dictated by him>

Post #5

Paarsurrey wrote:

So many mights for a “holy scripture” make it a bad scripture.
Am I right?

Regards

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Moses did not found Judaism and name it

May 15, 2015

View,comment and join discussion on< www.religiousforums.com > topic<Judaism>

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/judaism.176951/page-2#post-4289707

Post #22

Judaism

Paarsurrey wrote:

Moses did not found Judaism and name it as such, he also did not name his followers as Jews.
Regards

Prophets: Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus

July 4, 2014

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3827858-post80.html
Please click the above link to know the context of discussion and join the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinayaka

“paarsurrey, I feel you will continue to project your idea about what a prophet is onto Hinduism, even if 100 Hindus came here and told you Hinduism doesn’t have prophets. So you will always have your ‘truth’ and we will always have ours.

This is the result of subconscious mind (memory mind) conditioning, and quite understandable. You’ve read or been told over and over that all religions have prophets, so have come to believe it.” Unquote

Paarsurrey wrote:

This sub-forum is not DIR; when somebody writes here, it implies that one wants an open discussion.

There are Hindu denominations who think that Krishna definitely made a prophecy for the latter days; and I quoted it from a Hindu site.

If some or many or all Hindus consider Krishna a god; not withstanding that approach, he made a prophecy for future that stands fulfilled now; so in this sense he is a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.

This prophecy has many parallels.

Likewise Jesus made a prophecy for the latter days; his Second Coming in the End of times; and everybody here knows that Christians consider Jesus a god, not withstanding that approach, he made a prophecy that stands fulfilled now, so in this sense Jesus is a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.

Likewise Buddha; though not all Buddhists worship him as god. I consider Buddha also a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.

Likewise Zoroaster; but his followers definitely don’t worship him and are monotheists and I have read many of their scriptures, very beautiful scriptures. So I have no reason not to believe in his being a truthful prophet and no reason not to believe in his truthfulness.

Likewise Moses; though the Judaism people don’t consider him god; but definitely in “image of G-d”. And Judaism people also wait for a Moshiach.I consider Moses also a truthful prophet and I love him and believe in his truthfulness.

Likewise… and likewise and likewise…

Where do I err please?

Since some other non-Hindus; probably or most probably Christians also written here.

Should the globe be divided into many parts; one created and ruled by Krishna and another created and ruled by Jesus. Should we reasonably and rationally divide the humanity in pieces and the infinite pieces as there are said to be 32000+ denominations of Christianity and innumerable (exact figure not known, please tell me exactly) denominations of Hinduism and other religions .

While apparently there is no difference between a human in the East or human in the West and North and South.

My questions are addressed to everybody and open for response to everybody.

To make it clear; I am and Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Regards

Jews doing things against prime teachings of Moses: they are “rebellious”

June 24, 2014

Please access the following link to know the context of discussion and to joint it.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3815901-post625.html

Originally Posted by Avi1001
“Was it because Torah was shared or because Rome was occupying Israel and the Sanhedrin took action against Jesus, subsequently followed by his crucifixion by the Romans? It seems to me you are confounding cause and effect.” Unquote

Paarsurrey wrote:
It was a wrong done by the Jewish scribes and confirmed the rebellious nature of the Jews at that time prophesied by Moses:

27. For I know your rebellious spirit and your stubbornness. Even while I am alive with you today you are rebelling against the Lord, and surely after my death!

Deuteronomy – Chapter 31 (Parshah Vayelech) – Tanakh Online – Torah – Bible

As per prime teachings of Moses; the Jews must have accepted Jesus as their religious leader instead of trying to persecute him.

Regards

“How Odd of G-d to Choose the Jews”: Golden Calf

June 16, 2014

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3808508-post14.html

To view the post, the context of the discussion and to join the discussion, please access the above link:

“How Odd of G-d to Choose the Jews” (Topic of the thread)

Paarsurrey wrote:

This drama or story never happened.

The Jews hardly heard and obeyed Moses. When Moses went to the mountain; they made a Golden Calf.
Consequently the calf was burnt:

Moses went down from the mountain, but upon seeing the calf, he became angry and threw down the two Tablets of Stone, breaking them. Moses burnt the golden calf in a fire, ground it to powder, scattered it on water, and forced the Israelites to drink it.

Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said: ‘Whoso is on the LORD’s side, let him come unto me.’ And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. And he said unto them: ‘Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel: Put ye every man his sword upon his thigh, and go to and fro from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.’ And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses; and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men. (Exodus 32:26-28)

Golden calf – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jews of the time did not come up to hearing and obeying as per the story of the their selection from among the people of the world.

Did they?

Regards

Moses, Isaiah and Jeremiah confirm that scribes corrupted Torah

June 15, 2014

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3807472-post1124.html

CMike wrote in post #1105 about Deuteronomy – Chapter 31:9, 24, 26-29

Quote:
There are no mistakes in the Torah.

Paarsurrey wrote:

And the verses Deuteronomy – Chapter 31:9, 24, 26-29 are:

9. Then Moses wrote this Torah, and gave it to the priests, the descendants of Levi, who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel.
24. And it was, when Moses finished writing the words of this Torah in a scroll, until their very completion,
26. “Take this Torah scroll and place it along side the ark of covenant of the Lord, your God, and it will be there as a witness.
27. For I know your rebellious spirit and your stubbornness. Even while I am alive with you today you are rebelling against the Lord, and surely after my death!
28. Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, and I will speak these words into their ears, and I will call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses against them.
29. For I know that after my death, you will surely become corrupted, and deviate from the way which I had commanded you. Consequently, the evil will befall you at the end of days, because you did evil in the eyes of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands.

Deuteronomy – Chapter 31 (Parshah Vayelech) – Tanakh Online – Torah – Bible

That confirmed as per Moses and Torah, ark of covenant and heaven and earth stood as witness that Jews were rebellious and stubborn people and would remain as such:

1. For I (Moses) know your (the Jews) rebellious spirit and your stubbornness. Even while I am alive with you today you are rebelling against the Lord, and surely after my death!
2. Jews “will surely become corrupted”
3. Jews will “deviate from the way which I had commanded you”
4. Jews will “provoke Him (G-d) to anger through the work of your (their) hands.

It is a prophesy of Moses that the narrator and scribes of Torah would get corrupted and would corrupt the scriptures; later Isaiah (vide Chapter 24:1-6) and Jeremiah (vide Chapter 8:8-9) only confirmed fulfillment of what Moses had prophesied.

Jews should not doubt it; if they doubt they only show that they are stubborn and rebel against G-d and have deviated from the way commanded by Moses and they provoke anger of G-d.

Regards

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Isaiah – Chapter 24:1-6

1. Behold the Lord empties the land and lays it waste, and He shall turn over its face and scatter its inhabitants. א. הִנֵּה יְהֹוָה בּוֹקֵק הָאָרֶץ וּבוֹלְקָהּ וְעִוָּה פָנֶיהָ וְהֵפִיץ יֹשְׁבֶיהָ:
2. And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest, as with the slave, so with his master, as with the maidservant, so with her mistress, as with the buyer, so with the seller, as with the lender, so with the borrower, as with the creditor, so with the one who owes him. ב. וְהָיָה כָעָם כַּכֹּהֵן כַּעֶבֶד כַּאדֹנָיו כַּשִּׁפְחָה כַּגְּבִרְתָּהּ כַּקּוֹנֶה כַּמּוֹכֵר כַּמַּלְוֶה כַּלּוֶֹה כַּנֹּשֶׁה כַּאֲשֶׁר נֹשֶׁא בוֹ:
3. The land shall be emptied and it shall be pillaged, for the Lord has spoken this thing. ג. הִבּוֹק | תִּבּוֹק הָאָרֶץ וְהִבּוֹז | תִּבּוֹז כִּי יְהֹוָה דִּבֶּר אֶת הַדָּבָר הַזֶּה:
4. The land has mourned, it has withered, the land has been humbled and withered, the highest of the people of the land have been humbled. ד. אָבְלָה נָבְלָה הָאָרֶץ אֻמְלְלָה נָבְלָה תֵּבֵל אֻמְלָלוּ מְרוֹם עַם הָאָרֶץ:
5. And the land has deceived because of its inhabitants, for they transgressed instructions, infracted statutes, broke the everlasting covenant. ה. וְהָאָרֶץ חָנְפָה תַּחַת יֹשְׁבֶיהָ כִּי עָבְרוּ תוֹרֹת חָלְפוּ חֹק הֵפֵרוּ בְּרִית עוֹלָם:
6. Therefore, an oath has consumed the land, and the inhabitants thereof were wasted; therefore, the inhabitants of the land were dried up, and few people remained.

Yeshayahu – Chapter 24 – Tanakh Online – Torah – Bible

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15955/jewish/Chapter-24.htm

Jeremiah – Chapter 8:8-9
8. How do you say, “We are wise, and the Law of the Lord is with us”? Verily, behold it is in vain, he made a false scribes’ pen.
9. Wise men were ashamed, they were broken and caught; behold they rejected the word of the Lord, now what wisdom have they?

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16005

Where is the scroll that Moses gave to Levites?

June 10, 2014

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3800738-post1067.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMike

“That’s why G-D gave the oral law as well on Mt. Sinai.” Unquote

Paarsurrey wrote:

Where is the scroll that Moses gave to Levites?

Deuteronomy – Chapter 31:9,24,26-29

9. Then Moses wrote this Torah, and gave it to the priests, the descendants of Levi, who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel.
24. And it was, when Moses finished writing the words of this Torah in a scroll, until their very completion,
26. “Take this Torah scroll and place it along side the ark of covenant of the Lord, your God, and it will be there as a witness.
27. For I know your rebellious spirit and your stubbornness. Even while I am alive with you today you are rebelling against the Lord, and surely after my death!
28. Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, and I will speak these words into their ears, and I will call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses against them.
29. For I know that after my death, you will surely become corrupted, and deviate from the way which I had commanded you. Consequently, the evil will befall you at the end of days, because you did evil in the eyes of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands.

Deuteronomy – Chapter 31 (Parshah Vayelech) – Tanakh Online – Torah – Bible

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9995

Regards

The prime teaching of Moses

June 6, 2014

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3795785-post486.html

Quote from a Jew:
“What is most important in Judaism is the following of the Law itself, even if we do have doubts about there even being a God.” Unquote

Paarsurrey wrote:

The prime teaching of Moses

4. Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one.
5. And you shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your means.
6. And these words, which I command you this day, shall be upon your heart.
7. And you shall teach them to your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk on the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up.
8. And you shall bind them for a sign upon your hand, and they shall be for ornaments between your eyes.
9. And you shall inscribe them upon the doorposts of your house and upon your gates.

Deuteronomy – Chapter 6 (Parshah Va’etchanan) – Tanakh Online – Torah – Bible

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9970

This is the essence of all commandments and the Law of Moses;one who does not follow this teaching; does not in effect follow any Law described by Moses.

Thanks and regards

Why Ahmadi peaceful Muslim?

May 21, 2014

http://atheistenglishman.wordpress.com/believer-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-33

paarsurrey on May 21, 2014 at 4:03 pm said:
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.

http://atheistenglishman.wordpress.com/believer-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-38

AtheistEnglishmanon May 21, 2014 at 4:32 pm said:
Why do you feel the need to insert ‘peaceful’ in the description?

http://atheistenglishman.wordpress.com/believer-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-41

paarsurrey on May 21, 2014 at 7:49 pm said:

We Ahmadiyya peaceful Muslims have the diversity the world needs.

We do not eliminate or exterminate or abhor any human beings. We do not say that Jesus’ or Krishna’s or Buddha’s or Zoroaster’s or Moses’ ways were wrong. We respect them all and say that the above persons were truthful persons and they must have received messages from Allah. But their people did not and could not secure the Message which was the same for every race and region.

The obscure Word with them could be rejuvenated and reconstructed to the original Message but with a lot of effort, as the Renovators would do to an ancient building or monument.

While the same Creator rules the Universe now that ruled in the ancient times; He has mercifully re-sent the Message through Muhammad, respecting the ancient scriptures but encompassing the same in Quran in a compact manner. So the reality and diversity are not compromised but maintained in a graceful way- which is the need of the hour.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 as a truthful Successor of Muhammad is doing this work with peaceful discussion and dialogue.

Regards

The act of Abraham sacrificing his son Ishmael never happened in literal and real terms

May 11, 2014

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/christian-logic/comment-page-1/#comment-15325

PAARSURREY says:

May 11, 2014 at 7:40 pm
@MAKAGUTU says:May 11, 2014 at 7:02 pm
“Paarsurrey, in the bible, it is recorded that Abe was asked by god to sacrifice his son. By your comment can we say that this retelling of the narrative is not factual or what is your stand?” Unquote

Bible is neither authored by Abraham nor by Moses. Its different books have been authored by anonymous narrators and the scribes. It is not the original Word of God in the original language revealed.

Dreams and visions are always or most often interpret-able.

It only meant that Abraham and his offspring shall have to face hardships in the path of God (Allah Yahweh Tao) and would have to devout their lives; in service of the humanity for its ethical, moral and spiritual uplift.

Abraham and Ishmael were sure about it from their experience with the One-True-God; they knew that the He won’t let them accomplish an unreasonable act; and would bring out reasonable solution of the matter.

And the act of Abraham sacrificing his son Ishmael never happened in literal and real terms.

Abraham and his progeny did devote their lives to the cause of religion and that is how it took place in real terms; and that is what one should focus on.

The matter of as to how to interpret such dreams and visions was settled for all times.

Regards