Posts Tagged ‘trinity’

Do people understand the trinity doctrine?

May 26, 2015

View and comment on my following post at < www.religiousforums.com > Thread : Do people understand the trinity doctrine?.

One may even like to join the discussion. Please click on the post # below to access the forum.

Do People understand the trinity doctrine?

Paarsurrey wrote:

People don’t need to understand trinity, it is false.
Regards

Bible Student likes this.
Advertisements

“Do people understand the trinity doctrine?”

May 25, 2015

View, comment and or join discussion at <www.religiousforums.com><Thread: Do people understand the trinity doctrine?.>.

Please click the post # below:

Post #68

Paarsurrey wrote:

And that is what I stated.
So you agree with me.

Regards

Bible Student likes this.

Jesus never erected any Church

May 13, 2015

Please feel free to view,comment and join discussion on< www.religiousforums.com > under the topic <Can someone explain the Trinity please . . .>.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/can-someone-explain-the-trinity-please.145640/page-95#post-4286983

Post #1890

sojourner said↑
Mythical it may be, and that’s fine, since a myth is an illustration of truth.
But false? There’s nothing about the Trinity that is incongruent with what the church has believed about God since its beginning. And since theology is the province of the church, it’s the church that determines what God is or is not doctrinally.

Paarsurrey wrote:

That is not correct. Jesus did not establish any Church, so Church has no authority to invent creeds in the name of Jesus. Whenever Jesus went to pray he went to a Jewish temple.
Trinity is fallacious .

Paarsurrey wrote:

Please quote from the Gospels when Jesus and the his first disciples attended service in a Church together. Please mention the name of Church and its location exactly.

Regards

Trinity is a superfluous doctrine; not known to Jesus

January 27, 2014

paarsurrey 01/27/2014 at 5:01 pm

http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/heavenly-soul-bank-right-belief/#comment-123448
@ John Barron 01/27/2014 at 4:23 pm

If Trinity was/is an essential doctrine of Christianity as it relates to the nature of God, as you say; then why did Jesus not believe it?

Was Jesus not a Christian himself? Please

I think trinity is a non-essential doctrine; Jesus did not know of it; he remained focused on the teachings set forth below:

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

http://www.biblegateway.com/pa&#8230

Our concern is; what Buddha believed, not what the Buddhists believe

May 8, 2013

It should not be a matter of surprise for one; if Christians could start believing in Trinity out of the thin air despite Jesus believing in one true God; the same could have and has happened in case Buddha; his followers tilting to the other side pronounce that Buddha did not believe in one God.

Buddha’s ways and conduct is starkly different from the Atheists or Agnostics; his conduct is that of a believer, and not of a disbeliever.

Buddha left nothing in writing and he spoke Magadhi, not Pali, I think.

My concern is Buddha; not his followers.

Quran study for our Christians friends: Verse 2:117

April 29, 2013

I give here a page from Quran from Surah Al-Baqrah Chapter.2 verse 117 with the commentary:

http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=172&region=E1&CR=EN,E2

Please click the above link to view the page clearly.

Did Jesus wager or bet or gamble? | Pascal’s Wager

April 11, 2013

Jesus did not wager or bet or gamble in my opinion. He neither did it nor did he promote such ventures. May be Paul did it; I am not sure, but perhaps his apologists followers like Blaise Pascal did play it; hence we get Pascal’s Wager.

Christopher Hitchens hints about this Pascal’s Wager and makes its critical assessment in following words:

“Eternal Punishment and Impossible Tasks

The Gospel story of the Garden of Gethsemane used to absorb
me very much as a child, because its “break” in the action and its
human whimper made me wonder if some of the fantastic scenario
might after all be true. Jesus asks, in effect, “Do I have to go through
with this?”

It is an impressive and unforgettable question, and I
long ago decided that I would cheerfully wager my own soul on the
belief that the only right answer to it is “no.” We cannot, like fear-ridden
peasants of antiquity, hope to load all our crimes onto a goat
and then drive the hapless animal into the desert.

Our everyday idiom
is quite sound in regarding “scapegoating” with contempt. And religion
is scapegoating writ large. I can pay your debt, my love, if you
have been imprudent, and if I were a hero like Sidney Carton in A
Tale of Two Cities I could even serve your term in prison or take your
place on the scaffold. Greater love hath no man. But I cannot absolve
you of your responsibilities. It would be immoral of me to offer, and
immoral of you to accept. And if the same offer is made from another
time and another world, through the mediation of middlemen and
accompanied by inducements, it loses all its grandeur and becomes
debased into wish-thinking or, worse, a combination of blackmailing
with bribery.

The ultimate degeneration of all this into a mere bargain was
made unpleasantly obvious by Blaise Pascal, whose theology is not
far short of sordid. His celebrated “wager” puts it in hucksterish form:
what have you got to lose? If you believe in god and there is a god,
you win. If you believe in him and you are wrong—so what?

I once
wrote a response to this cunning piece of bet-covering, which took
two forms. The first was a version of Bertrand Russell’s hypothetical
reply to the hypothetical question: what will you say if you die and are
confronted with your Maker? His response? “I should say, Oh God,
you did not give us enough evidence.” My own reply: Imponderable
Sir, I presume from some if not all of your many reputations that you
might prefer honest and convinced unbelief to the hypocritical and
self-interested affectation of faith or the smoking tributes of bloody
altars. But I would not count on it.” Unquote

Reference: “God is not Great” by Christopher Hitchens: Pages: 211-212, Chapter Fifteen, “Religion as an Original Sin”

How could Pascal defend with reason Paul’s made-up creed of the “Original Sin” mentioned above which even Jesus never believed in or supported? Like Paul invented the concept of “Original Sin” so did the Christian apologist Blaise Pascal invent “Pascal’s Wager”, of no use.

Christianity’s creeds: Jesus was a god, Jesus was son of god, Trinity, Jesus died a cursed death on Cross; Jesus got resurrected from dead, Jesus’ ascension to heavens, original sin, atonement; these beliefs are fabricated creeds of Paul and Church. Jesus never believed in such unreasonable, irrational and deceptive creeds; hence even a genius cannot defend them.

Why leave Jesus?

Unless Christians

April 3, 2013

Paarsurrey says:

It is a good post wherein purpose of life has been nicely explained and the hollowness of Atheism/naturalism has been exposed.

But for the sentence at the end “For me this is one of the reasons among many Christianity makes real sense”.

Jesus did not believe in the modern Christianity; it has nothing to do with Him.

Jesus did not believe in “Trinity”, or of his being “god” or “son of god”; or his death on the Cross; or his ascension to heaven bodily from Jerusalem after the event of Cross.

Unless the Christians follow the acts and beliefs of Jesus and Mary, they must doubt fulfilling the purpose of life; following Paul and scribes would lead them nowhere. One should not remain in illusions.

crosscultureXA

20130321-123348.jpg
This morning I ran into a Starbucks and saw an old friend. We had few minutes so we began to talk about life and sort of catch up investigating each other. Within our conversation I clearly could see that he was surprised that the crazy guy he knew twenty years ago would become a Pastor. I could see the cold expression and confusion on his face as he wondered why I guy like me would educate himself in theology and waste good money on a certification on Apologetics. He thought such an education was a complete waste of time and money, but he wanted to be nice so he just questionably smiled as I answered his questions. I could visibly see his restraint as I knew he wanted to unload on me about being a Christian. However, he continued in the small talk, until an old member of my church…

View original post 1,513 more words

Trinity – a case of personality multiple disorder

November 20, 2011

There took place an interesting discussion on the above topic, initiated by me, on my favorite discussion forum, the hubpages:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/86625

OP by Paarsurrey:

Trinity and multiple gods do create disorder and confusion; like not believing in the Creator God is only work of Doubt.

1. paarsurrey
Jesus did not believe in Tritnity; he never uttered this word from his mouth.
2. Brenda Durham
The Trinity isn’t multiples of God. It’s simply God.
One God.
Three distinct but inseparable manifestations of the same Being.
3. Judah’s Daughter
The Greatest of ALL Commandments: Mark 12:29 “The MOST important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.”

Children of God, ponder these things:

God is invisible Spirit; God is Holy = God is the Holy Spirit. “The LORD is that Spirit” (2 Cor 3:17). Jesus is the image of the invisible God ~ always has been and always will be. The Spirit of God IS the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9). The words ‘distinct’ or ‘separate’ that are used when describing the ‘Trinity’ should be looked up by those who use them. If the Father is not the Son and neither are the Holy Spirit ~ if they are three distinct or separate persons, then there are three gods united as one. We must understand this. This is not Who God is. He is ONE God manifested in Spirit (i.e. clouds, fire, tongues of fire) and flesh (both immortal, as to Abraham and Sarah, and mortal to shed His own blood (Acts 20:28) = Jesus).

Let the Scriptures confirm:

Isa 44:6 “This is what the LORD says–Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; APART from Me THERE IS NO GOD.” Rev 2:8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of Him who is the First and the Last, who DIED and came to life again.”

Isa 44:24 “This is what the LORD says–your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the LORD, who has made all things, who ALONE stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth BY MYSELF.”

Acts 20:28 “Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of GOD, which He bought WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.”

1 Tim 6:15 “which He will display at the proper time—He who is the blessed and ONLY Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords” Jude 1:4 “For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and DENY Jesus Christ our ONLY Sovereign and Lord.”

“No one can say Jesus is LORD (Kurios/Yehovah), except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor 12:3).
4. pisean282311
Religion is creation of minds and mind can have disorder…
5. paarsurrey
So you agree that Trinity is false.
6. aka-dj
Did you read the posts by Brenda, and Judah’s Daughter?

LISTEN. LEARN. Stop creating issues where there are none.

Why don’t you stick to comments and teaching the Koran, instead of always trying to criticise the Bible.

You are a Biblical ILLITERATE.
7. paarsurrey
Quran supports Jesus; Jesus’ beliefs and Jesus’ deeds:

[5:74] They are surely disbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the third of three;’ there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.
[5:75] Will they not then turn to Allah and beg His forgiveness, while Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful?
[5:76] The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=73

Quran corrects that Paul has ascribed to be teachings of Jesus and Quran brings forth what the Creator God had revealed on Jesus.

Only the Creator God knows what Word He revealed on messenger prophet Jesus.
8. MelissaBarrett
We aren’t Muslims paar, we don’t follow the Quran. Using it makes about as much sense as bringing a sword to a gun fight.

Most of us don’t care what the book says any more that I care what the laws of Budapest say about jaywalking.
9. paarsurrey
I know but Christian posters here demand of me that I should mention things from Quran.

I do cite here from Gospels also; I have read it. I am an open mind.
10. aka-dj
That’s either a lie, or plain BS!
You may have read the Gospels, but understand very little of what you read.
As for open mind, all I can say is

You do not seem to learn anything you are told. I have shown you dozens of examples(not to mention the hundreds of posts by other Christians) that prove you flat out wrong, but you still keep to your own opinions regardless.
11. paarsurrey
I am an open mind and I read OT , NT, Gita etc and Quran; I mention whatever I sincerely believe to be truthful; of course others, even atheists, are entitled to give their own opinions.

Truth will prevail in the end.
12. A Troubled Man
We know your truth… Islam good, everything else bad, sincerely.
13. paarsurrey
Did I mention that?

I believe that Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Socrates, Jesus were truthful in the origin.

Their truth has been highlighted by the truthful Muhammad and truthful Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah of our era.
14. aka-dj
Wrong again!!

You say you are an open mind, but, as I said, VERY CLEARLY, you make false claims about the Bible, and you will NOT learn from others who know better that you.
15. paarsurrey
Is there any harm if you also learn to set an ideal example?

Mention with rational and tangible reason where I did not understand Bible correctly; just one example.
16. aka-dj
Paul is an untruthful Apostle.

Will that do?

Jesus didn’t die on the cross. Another one. (probably the WORST one you misquote).

Care for any more?
17. aka-dj
What?

You have nothing to say?

That’s most unusual for you!

Here it is again, just in case you missed it. (my guess is, YOU IGNORED it)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
“Paul is an untruthful Apostle.

Will that do?

Jesus didn’t die on the cross. Another one. (probably the WORST one you misquote).

Care for any more?
18. paarsurrey
Yes, Jesus did not die on the Cross. Deviant Paul and sinful scribes collaborated and doctored the accounts of the Crucifixion; even then there were enough clues that they did try to conceal the truth. When someone steals, leaves enough clues to reach to the truth.

1.Why they tried to have body of Jesus and took him hurriedly to a tomb? They need not do it, if he was to resurrect, he would have resurrected where his body was lying and everybody from the adulterous Jews would have seen him to resurrect; the sign was for them, let them see it. Why conceal and resurrect in a hiding.

Jesus’ friends knew that he was alive and needed immediate treatment to recover; that was the reason behind.

2.Why did they wrap his body with so much wrappings? He was treated with ointments made from Aloe and Myrrh which needed to be wrapped with cotton.

There are many clues that show deviant Paul and the sinful scribes doctored the evidence and concealed the truth; but one could discern the truth if one peruses a little deeper.

I understood Bible correctly
19. aka-dj
There you go.

NOT LISTENING!

“There are many clues that show deviant Paul and the sinful scribes doctored the evidence and concealed the truth; but one could discern the truth if one peruses a little deeper.”

Show me this evidence!
Also show me how you conclude that Paul was a deviant, sinful, deceitful man.
20. MelissaBarrett
You are failing to understand that quoting the Quran in response to biblical replies loses the argument.

It’s like saying “the encyclopedia is wrong, the phone book proves it”

The Quran is irrelevant to Christian belief. If you want to argue the Bible, you are going to need to argue the Bible.

And I didn’t say the concept of Trinity was false, I said I disagreed with it(as well as a lot of other people)… There is a distinction there that you seem to miss.
21. MelissaBarrett
I’m not a big fan of paar, but I am certainly not a biblical illiterate and I don’t buy the trinity concept.

Neither did many of the great Christians in American history.

You don’t have to be a Muslim to disagree with fundie Christians. On this one, a host of other Christians, Atheists, and the other 4 billion or so people on the planet disagree with you.

So you might want to turn your capslock off… just saying.

Hubpages is a good discussion site; one could comment there or here in this blog; comments are most welcome.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/86625

Jesus god-the-father: a fallacy of Catholics Protestants

November 20, 2011

There took place an interesting discussion on the above topic, initiated by me, on my favorite discussion forum, the hubpages:

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/86391

I will give here some of the posts to have you a taste of the same.

OP by paarsurrey

Catholics Protestants think Jesus was god; rather as some say he was “god-the-father”; then the Christians say that Mary was begotten by god-the-father.

It is a wrong concept; because that would makes Jesus , I take refuge with the Creator God, husband of Mary.

I don’t think it is a correct concept that Jesus ever believed.

When the Catholics Protestants say “Yahshua was God the Father Himself manifest in the flesh”; what exactly they mean.

I want to understand.

1. thooghun wrote:

I’m not religious, but I have read the bible a few times. I’m sure a learned Christian could correct me, however the impression I got was:

Jesus is neither man nor God. But a unity (the holy trinity) of three distinct natures, comprised of the father (God), the son (Jesus — specifically the man) and the Holy Spirit.

Paarsurrey now comments in this blog:

If there are three different natures; they depict three different persons, not one.

2. A Troubled Man@ paarsurrey

“I want to understand.”

No, you don’t. You just want to continue your onslaught of other religions while propagating the virtues of your religion.

You must also believe we’re really stupid.

3. Brenda Durham

@ OP
Mary wasn’t anybody’s wife except Joseph’s.
God was not Mary’s husband. Jesus was not Mary’s husband.
God has no literal wife.

Jesus was a manifestation of God the Father.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ARE God; they are One, with distinct manifestations and purposes but totally inseparable.

4. couturepopcafe

@ OP

paars – I would explain it like this: The Supreme One is able to project Himself in a way that is visible to humans so we can understand that it is possible to be perfect. IMO, Jesus was a projection of the mind of God, sent to teach us how to live. When we reach a point in our own life of perfection, this is Nirvana, Heaven, when we will have the same power Jesus had.
Paarsurrey now replies:

How do you know “The Supreme One” wants to project himself before the humans in human form? This is just your presumption; and against the attributes of the Creator God.

5. Arcjahad

Trinity is a false doctrine our heavenly father is not the author of confusion the reason the trinity is confusing to some is because it is false , the messiah said he is the son of God not that he is God ,the Creator said that the messiah is my son not that he is me in the flesh , as a child growing up in a Baptist church I always knew that when the grownups said God died on the cross for us I always said they sounded stupid it’s his son not him , children always know spiritual truth

6. Emile R

What I got from the story was that he was Son of God and Son of Man while on earth; which meant his spirit was the spirit of God. His flesh was that of a human. It was the flesh that made him the Son, but his spirit was fully the Ancient of Days. God didn’t breathe life into his spirit, because his spirit was the breathe itself.

Paarsurrey now replies:

It is just your guess, not a reality.

7. couturepopcafe@Arcjahad

It’s not confusing to me at all so I must be more enlightened than the ‘some’. The trinity is not doctrine at all, it’s a concept created to allow man to understand the 3 aspects of life – mind, flesh/heart, spirit/soul/energy force. There’s nothing unclear about this. All ascetics have learned this. IMO, the habitual thought patterns of humans is what stands in the way of the genuine impressions of the One.

Jesus was also called the Son of Man, among other names. He forgave the sins of those who had faith in his power. Who can forgive sins but God only? Mark 2:5-12 “Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee, or to say Arise and take up thy bed and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins.” etc. If you believe in the Christian doctrine, this clearly says Jesus is God as Man.

8. couturepopcafe
@thooghun
“I’m not religious, but I have read the bible a few times. I’m sure a learned Christian could correct me, however the impression I got was:

Jesus is neither man nor God. But a unity (the holy trinity) of three distinct natures, comprised of the father (God), the son (Jesus — specifically the man) and the Holy Spirit.”

That’s pretty much the way I understand the concept. Except it’s God as Trinity. I guess it really could go any which way if they are all the same being. Father is mind, Son is heart, Spirit is soul just like we humans.

9. Brenda Durham wrote:

“Jesus was a manifestation of God the Father.”
Paarsurrey wrote:
That makes Jesus a messenger prophet of the Creator God; every messenger prophet manifests the attributes of the Creator God; nothing different from others.

10. couturepopcafe wrote:

paars – I would explain it like this: The Supreme One is able to project Himself in a way that is visible to humans so we can understand that it is possible to be perfect. IMO, Jesus was a projection of the mind of God, sent to teach us how to live. When we reach a point in our own life of perfection, this is Nirvana, Heaven, when we will have the same power Jesus had.

Paarsurrey wrote:
That is with every prophet messenger of the Creator God; they were perfect human beings who achieved attributes of the Creator God as one mortal can; this way they became in image of the
Creator God; nothing special with human Jesus.
11. Arcjahad wrote:
“Trinity is a false doctrine”
Paarsurrey wrote:
– created by clever Paul and the sinful writers of gospels; trinity is a false doctrine I agree with you.
Posted 10 days ago
12. Greek One@paarsurrey :
“- created by clever Paul and the sinful writers of gospels; trinity is a false doctrine I agree with you.”
sinful?

Didn’t you say they were misguided just the other day?

Which one were they?
13. Disappearinghead

@paarsurrey wrote:
“- created by clever Paul and the sinful writers of gospels; trinity is a false doctrine I agree with you.”
You don’t think Muhammad was sinful then Paar?
14. paarsurrey
@Disappearinghead wrote:
“You dont think Muhamed was sinful then Paar?”

All human beings are born innocent unless they commit a sin when they get mature.

All messenger prophets of the Creator God were innocent; their selection for this high office by the Creator God is a proof they were all innocent; they did not commit any sin; and if they did my mistake they asked forgiveness from Him; and He is most Merciful and the Most-forgiver.

Muhammad was messenger prophet; he was, therefore, innocent.

15. paarsurrey
@Greek One
“Sinful? Didn’t you say they were misguided just the other day? Which one were they?”
A misguided is a sinful person; it is the same thing in other words.

Hubpages is a good discussion site; one could comment there or here in this blog; comments are most welcome.

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/86391