Posts Tagged ‘Jesus’

Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?No, it never happened.

April 28, 2019

Religious Forums

#619 paarsurrey

Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

No, it never happened.
One may like to read:
“Jesus In India:

by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Promised Messiah and Mahdi (as)

The treatise puts forward the view that Jesus survived crucifixion, left Judea and migrated eastward in order to continue his mission to the ‘Lost Tribes of Israel’, traveling through Persia and Afghanistan and eventually dying a natural and honourable death in Kashmir at an old age. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) applied textual analysis of both the Gospels and Islamic sources – the Quran and hadith – and also drew upon medical and historical material, including ancient Buddhist records, to argue his case.
Jesus In India | Islam Ahmadiyya


I can tell you one things . . . Christians can’t count“. Unquote
#620 paarsurrey

Please elaborate on one’s reasonable evidences/proofs from Religion as well as from science, if any.


#621 paarsurrey

One is exposing fallibility of Bahaullah, here, unnecessarily. Right, please?


Tonxxxxxxxx said: 
There is ample proof. There is much more to life than material senses, so no guess is needed, as it takes good logic and good reasoning.

The bible gives this option as being ‘Born Again’. That is someting that can be done in this life, if one so chooses.

Regards Tony

#622 paarsurrey

Last edited: Yesterday at 12:03 PM

I agree with one, your’s is a reasonable approach.

I understand that Bahaullah wrote something in favor of science, yet the Bahaism people prefer to follow him in blind-faith as if they are living in the abode of mythology. Don’t they, please?


How does one know of all/each of these things. Just guessing, please?


#646  paarsurrey

That does not make a myth into the reality. Please remain in the Myth-Land, if that is one’s choice. Right, please?




Jesus as a Jew…

April 24, 2019

Blog post # 2226

Religious Forums

“In that view Jesus is not fully God fully man. Didn’t die for sins of the world. Wasn’t raised.” Unquote
#84 paarsurrey

We Muslims specifically Ahmadiyya peaceful Muslim believe in Jesus, Mary, Moses, Adam and Abraham; as also other messengers/prophets of G-d (Bahaullah excluded) and their life accounts because Quran mentions them, strictly as mentioned by Quran. And other narratives (like OT-Torah or NT-Bible and Hadith,Shia or Sunni or any other traditions/sayings) that don’t contradict with Quran.

“In that view Jesus is not fully God fully man. Didn’t die for sins of the world. Wasn’t raised.”

Because that mars the personality and Character of Jesus, making him an imperfect man and god Jesus never was. We cannot, emphasis cannot, believe in such an imperfect god as depicted in NT Bible, please.

Sorry, no disrespect intended to anybody or anybody’s faith. Everybody is entitled to believe in any faith/religion with reason or absolute no reason. They must to continue to believe, as they want and wish to.

Right, please?


“I know that there were thirteen tribes of Israel and Levi was one such tribe.”

#85 paarsurrey

Please name them as Jacob/Israel had only twelve sons. Where does come another one to make them thirteen, please:

Jacob’s twelve sons, named in Genesis, were Reuben, Simeon,LeviJudah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, IssacharZebulun,Joseph, and Benjamin. His only daughter mentioned in Genesis is Dinah. The twelve sons became the progenitors of the “Tribes of Israel”.
Jacob – Wikipedia
Jacob – Wikipedia


Was “Jesus’ resurrection an intentional deception by God”?

April 23, 2019

Blog post # 2223

Religious Forums

“Qur’an 2:193
“… But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression … ” Unquote

#352  paarsurrey

That is the point.


“Jesus’ resurrection was intentional deception by Allah” Unquote

#353 paarsurrey

Sorry, G-d does not do any deception, it is people who got deceived from a situation.

Jesus did not die a cursed death on the the Cross, as Jews of that time had planned and or ordinary Christians thought of . Jesus survived miraculously against all odds, he was treated in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea by physicians like Nicodemus with the prescriptions of treatment already by told by Jesus to him.

As to what happened at that time, please read my posts #1#5 , #6 , #8 and #9 in another thread , please.




Is suicide a sin if the person is an intelligent/responsible human being?

April 23, 2019

Blog post # 2220

Religious Forums

#1 paarsurrey 

Case in study some 2000 years ago in Jerusalem,please.
Is it a sin,please?
or it is no sin,please.
First to define as to what one understands from the word “suicide”, one’s own understanding, not from a lexicon,please.
Thread open to everybody of religion or no religion, absolutely no restriction,please.



  1. Thread prompted from the thread of our friend @shunyadragon in another Forum post #1 .
  2. The exact location Golgotha, or Calvary, was, according to the Gospels, a site immediately outside Jerusalem’s walls.
  3. Tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. [​IMG]The Garden Tomb in Jerusalem.
  4. Tomb of Hazrat Youza Asaf at Roza Bal.Youza Asouph and Syed Nasir-u-Din[​IMG] Roza Bal shrine – The sign reads “Ziarati Hazrati Youza Asouph and Syed Nasir-u-Din.
  5. Witness of Jesus after some 1850 years in Iran maybe or may not be, Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí.
  6. Jesus in Kashmir
  7. Meher Baba, 1925[edit]
    Meher Baba (1894-1969)
    According to Indian spiritual master Meher Baba, when Jesus was crucified, he did not die physically. But, he entered the state of Nirvikalp Samadhi (the I-am-God state without bodily consciousness). On the third day, he again became conscious of his body, and he travelled secretly in disguise eastward with some apostles, most importantly with Bartholomew and Thaddeus, to India. This was called Jesus’ resurrection. After reaching India, Jesus travelled further east to Rangoon, in Burma, where he remained for some time. He then went north to Kashmir, where he settled. After Jesus’s spiritual work was completed, Jesus subsequently dropped his body, and the body was buried by the Two Apostles in Harvan, at Kan Yar, district of Kashmir.[50]Holger Kersten, 1981[edit]
    In 1981, Holger Kersten, a German writer on esoteric subjects popularised the subject in his Christ Lived in India.[51] Kersten’s ideas were among various expositions of the theory critiqued by Günter Grönbold in Jesus in Indien. Das Ende einer Legende(Munich, 1985).[52] Wilhelm Schneemelcherstates that the work of Kersten (which builds on Ahmad and The Aquarian Gospel) is fantasy and has nothing to do with historical research.[11]Schneemelcher states that Kersten combines elements from various previous authors such as Notovitch, Ahmadiyya beliefs, and Levi Dowling.[11]Gerald O’Collins also states that Kersten’s work is simply the repackaging of a legend for consumption by the general public.[12]

    Among texts cited by Kersten, following Andreas Faber-Kaiser, is the third khanda of the Pratisarga Parvan in the Bhavishya Mahapurana which contains discussion of “Isa Masih” and Muhammed. However Indologists such as Grönbold note that this section postdates not just the Quran,[53] but also the Mughals. Hiltebeitel (2009) establishes 1739 as the very earliest possible date for the section.[54]


#5 paarsurrey

Further to the OP #1:
“Swami Abhedananda, 1922[edit]

Main article: Swami Abhedananda
In 1922 Swami Abhedananda, the founder of Vedanta Society of New York 1897 and the author of several books, went to Himalayas on foot and reached Tibet, where he studied Buddhistic philosophy and Lamaism. He was one of the skeptics who tried to debunk Nicholas Notovitch and disprove the existence of the manuscript about Jesus in India. However, when he reached Hemis monastery he found the manuscript which was a Tibetan translation of the original scrolls written in Pali. The lama said that it was a copy and the original was in a monastery at Marbour near Lhasa. After Abhedananda’s death in 1939, one of his disciples inquired about the documents at the Hemis monastery, but was told they disappeared.[40][41]
Unknown years of Jesus – Wikipedia
2.Jesus In India
by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Promised Messiah and Mahdi (as)
Jesus In India | Islam Ahmadiyya
3.BBC Documentary:4.Jesus in Kashmir (India)-Documentary by Indian Govt.



#6 paarsurrey

As per the Christian core creed Jesus came to this world to die a cursed death for atonement of their sins and to save them. This means his death on Cross was a suicide one.
Wasn’t it, please?



#8 paarsurrey 

But being a god, as per the Christianity, Jesus himself decided that he himself should die on the Cross, so definitely it was a suicide case. It also makes him sinful having committed a suicide, so an innocent man becomes sinful so this suicide was meaningless as as per , Christianity, only death of an innocent man cannot atone their sins. So the sins of the Christianity people remains without atonement and it adherents unsaved by their non-innocent Savior. Right, please
A futile exercise, isn’t it, please?



Is suicide a sin if the person is an intelligent/responsible human being?
#9 paarsurrey

Christ of Kashmiris by Anand Krishna
Jesus in Kashmir



#11 paarsurrey

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. In Islam suicide for a normal, intelligent person is a sin. Please read my post
#52 in another thread. Allah says:
یٰۤاَیُّہَا الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا لَا تَاۡکُلُوۡۤا اَمۡوَالَکُمۡ بَیۡنَکُمۡ بِالۡبَاطِلِ اِلَّاۤ اَنۡ تَکُوۡنَ تِجَارَۃً عَنۡ تَرَاضٍ مِّنۡکُمۡ ۟ وَ لَا تَقۡتُلُوۡۤا اَنۡفُسَکُمۡ ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰہَ کَانَ بِکُمۡ رَحِیۡمًا ﴿۳۰﴾
O ye who believe! devour not your property among yourselves by unlawful means, except that you earn by trade with mutual consent. And kill not yourselves. Surely, Allah is Merciful to you.
The Holy Quran – Chapter: 4: An-Nisa’

Muslim scholars and clerics consider suicide forbidden, including suicide bombing.[19][20][21][22][23][24]
The prohibition of suicide has also been recorded in statements of hadith (sayings of Muhammad); for example:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire.”
— Sahih al-Bukhari2:23:446
Religious views on suicide – Wikipedia



Jesus was a Jew? Yes, of course.

April 22, 2019

Religious Forums

Ellen Brown said: 

#5 paarsurrey

Jesus was a firm follower of Moses, was trained as such, and remained as such till he died naturally at the age of about 120 years in a “Peaceful Abode” (not in Baghdad- a clarification for the followers of Bahaullah, please.) with fountains where he got refuge/migrated after the event of Crucifixion in which he survived against all odds, please.


#13 paarsurrey

Never-mind, please, though Jesus got Baptized clearly at hands of the John the Baptist and he did not renounce it to become a non-Jew later. So, Jesus was a Jew till he died naturally at the age of about 120 years. He was a man of strong-faith and he never got converted a “Christian” or a “first-Christian” in all his life. I love Jesus and Mary.

We are presently discussing about Bahaullah’s conversion to a “Bahai” or a “first Bahai” in the “pre-Iqan period and or “Iqan-period”. This is the priority here, please.


The Pagan Christ (3)

April 22, 2019

Religious Forums

sxxxx said: 

#35 paarsurrey

That is too much, and no Letter or Gospel-Book written by Jesus and he was a trained , intelligent and wise Rabbi of Jews.
It speaks a lot. Paul was a dead enemy of the “Sheep” as well the “Sheppard”, he Himself admitted. He employed the technique of “Love and Sales” and harmed them both in another way, when Jesus migrated or took asylum to a peaceful abode in a land of natural fountains a heaven on Earth and died a natural death at the age of about 120 years, leaving wife/s and children. He survived a cursed death on Cross against all odds and refused to be a god and or son-of-god in physical and material sense. Right, please?


“You can´t love Him (Jesus)”: A Christian says to paarsurrey. Do they have monopoly on Jesus?

April 22, 2019

Religious Forums

#27 paarsurrey

“You can´t love Him (Jesus)”

If one likes one may read my thoughts in posts #5 and #13 on another thread , please.


#38 paarsurrey

Do Christians have monopoly on loving Jesus? If yes who issued a license to it, please?


The Pagan Christ

April 20, 2019

Religious Forums

#5 paarsurrey

The Pagan Christ

Paul hijacked Jesus’ true teachings and replaced then with the pagan teachings and the “Sheep”, unaware of this, were made pagans. This was all done in the name of Jesus:

“such as virgin birth, deity father, star in the east, raising of the dead, descent into hell, crucifixion, resurrection, and others. Harpur claims that virtually all words and actions attributed to Jesus in the gospels “originated thousands of years before.”[4]
The Pagan Christ – Wikipedia
The question arises, was Paul the seed of the Anti-Christ that grew up and spread into the world as Christianity?


Add: Jesus is most likely a continuation of Osiris and Dionysus : DebateReligion


Budha, Jesus “Conversion after death”

May 21, 2018

Conversion after death

Post#149 paarsurrey wrote:

I believe that Buddha was a non-Jewish prophet/messenger of G-d and Jesus was a Jewish prophet/messenger of G-d, they both were in different ages, so they need not to accept one another, by name. I believe that they both are in heaven and are very close to G-d. They both received enlightenment from the same G-d, it is for this, that their teachings and many events have much similarity.
Hence, neither Buddha needs to convert to become a Christian, nor Jesus needs to become a Buddhist. They both were treading the same truthful path that lead to G-d. Right, please?



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The fictional “human sacrifice” of Jesus

November 15, 2017

The fictional “human sacrifice” of Jesus for the atonement of Pauline-Christians’ sins neither took pace nor it was ever needed. JW’s including, all the Pauline-Christianity people , who bank for their sins upon Jesus’ “human sacrifice” are as sinful as they would have been without it, please.

Thread: “Roman executioner’s are not priests,” 
and the cross is not an altar 
Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma

X——— wrote:
Roman executioners are not priests, and the cross is not an altar. So how can Jesus execution be considered a “payment for sin”? In any kind of a theologically legal sense, that is.

If Jesus death is truly a legal “payment for sin” as Paul seems to teach, and as Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, (ransom), then wouldn’t his death have to be performed on the Temple altar, at the hands of a Jewish priest?

1) Is the idea of Jesus death as a “payment for sin” anything more than a metaphor? A metaphor that is useful for Paul and his followers, but not for everyone.

2) Is the notion of Jesus martyrdom as a “payment for sin” Divine revelation? Or theological speculation.

3) Seems Paul wanted to play the legal, Priestly game in regard to Jesus death, so why wouldn’t the legal, priestly rules have disqualified his interpretations?

4) Is Pauline blood-atonement theology legalistic?

5) Would Jesus have approved of such a legalistic approach?

Please address any combination of the above.

Paarsurrey wrote:

One’s points are very reasonable.

Since Jesus survived death on the Cross as he was delivered in near-death position from the Cross, he was treated in the tomb by his friends for his injuries inflicted upon him on the Cross. Jesus remained in hiding, met only to his followers secretly, did not meet the public or the “adulterous Jews” to whom he was to show a sign as promised by him, and went out of Judea lest the Jews catch him and crucify him again.

The fictional* “human sacrifice” of Jesus for the atonement of Pauline-Christians’ sins neither took pace nor it was ever needed. JW’s including, all the Pauline-Christianity people , who bank for their sins upon Jesus’ “human sacrifice” are as sinful as they would have been without it, please.


*One may like to read:
The Pagan Christ

“The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light is a 2004 non-fiction book by Canadian writer Tom Harpur (1929-2017), a former Anglican priest, journalist and professor of Greek and New Testament at the University of Toronto, which supports the Christ myth theory.[1] Harpur claims that the New Testament shares a large number of similarities with ancient Egyptian and other pagan religions, that early Church leaders fabricated a literal and human Jesus based on ancient myths, and that we should return to an inclusive and universal religion where the spirit of Christ or Christos lives within each of us.

The book was named the Canadian non-fiction bestseller of the year by both the Toronto Star and The Globe and Mail. It was later released under the title The Pagan Christ: Is Blind Faith Killing Christianity? in the United States by Walker Books and in Australia by Allen Unwin.

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