Posts Tagged ‘violence’

“Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone. Did he?”

October 9, 2017

https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=888732#888732

Post 1: 
Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone. Did he?
Paarsurrey wrote:


Muhammad under the guidance of Word of God established a most equitable, peaceful and rational society starting from Mecca, Medina and when Mecca became free under his control to the whole of the Arabian Peninsula and of course then in the whole world.
Muhammad abhorred fighting with anyone and he was not trained to fight. Was he, please?
Regards
OOOOOOOOOOOReference Post 24 in the thread “Worship of Mary not Biblical”:
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=888509#888509
Post 5: 
W—-h wrote:
It’s dangerous to see the good in wicked people and more dangerous to try to justify wicked actions because it’s not healthy to support immorality.For instance all criminals would claim to abhor violence but in their situation they had to do it.

But the criminal at least deserves some pity because we did not walk in their shoes. But the one that makes excuses for the criminal deserves far less pity because they are justifying evil.

Right now we have a mass delusion enforced by violence and fear where sane comments about a historical figure are not possible. The West is going to have to choose again between freedom and slavery and it is not clear it has the courage to do so.

We can talk sanely about Ghengis khan or Hitler or napoleon or Cesar or pharoah but not Mohammad. Why is that?


W—-h wrote:

Quote:
We can talk sanely about Ghengis khan or Hitler or napoleon or Cesar or pharoah but not Mohammad. Why is that?

Paarsurrey wrote:
One is welcome to talk about Muhammad sanely, no harm, please.
Did one read Quran to know the truth about Muhammad? Quran is the truthful source of important/crucial/salient points about the life events of Muhammad, and it recorded them while these happened as if a live transmission was going on. Right, please?

Regards
__________
Anyone who says the Quran advocates terrorism obviously hasn’t read its lessons on violence
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/islam-muslim-terrorism-islamist-extremism-quran-teaching-violence-meaning-prophet-muhammed-a7676246.html

Violence is in the minds and hearts of the Atheists not in Quran

March 10, 2014

The viewers could see my comments on the following blog for their valuable comments:

“Dwindling In Unbelief”
“Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26149572&postID=114987521408797161&page=2&token=1394482133017

paarsurrey said:

@Richard : Thu Mar 06, 03:31:00 PM 2014, Thu Mar 06, 04:11:00 PM 2014,

You said:
“What I posted as 4:89 may have been some sort of cut and paste error” Unquote.

You know that there was no copy/paste error; as there is no such item on the page you took the verses from. It seems to be a deliberate attempt to change the text of the verse of Quran.

Other stuff you gave in your posts, referenced above, as a cover up of your wrong doing are off-topic and not worthy of any attention. The topic is specific about Quran (“Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”) so please only quote Quran or get the topic amended.

If you have nothing substantial to write in connection with the verse in discussion Quran; you may select another verse from the 527 violent verses you mentioned in the original post.

If you cannot prove a single violent verse in Quran and have to resort to changing the text to prove your viewpoint then it is obvious the violence is in the minds and hearts of the Atheists not in Quran.

Better quote another verse from another place of Quran for discussion and try your luck in vain.
Mon Mar 10, 01:08:00 PM 2014

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26149572&postID=114987521408797161&page=2&token=1394488106581

paarsurrey said:

@Richard said: Mon Mar 10, 01:55:00 PM 2014, Mon Mar 10, 02:00:00 PM 2014

You wrote:
“(Where did you get 527 from?)”

Please see the OP (The Original Post of this blog) titled:

Quote: “Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”

(Repost with updated numbers and graphs on 2 April 2011)

The LORD is a man of war. Exodus 15:3

Fight in the way of Allah. Quran 2:244

Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran? Is there a way to objectively answer such a question?

Well, it wouldn’t be easy. But it is possible to compare the amount of cruelty and violence in the two books.

Here is a summary of the highlighted verses in the SAB and SAQ.

Number of Cruel or Violent Passages

Bible 1214

Quran 527 ” Unquote

Please access the following link to see it.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html

The rest of the contents of your posts, referred by me in the beginning, are off-topic and or not on the topic; so I won’t discuss them.

If you are defending the OP; then quote another of the alleged 527 verses that show violence in Quran.

I will discuss the topic verse by verse not in general.

Mon Mar 10, 02:48:00 PM 2014

Muhammad commanded by God; have forbearance for disbelievers and the hypocrites

March 8, 2014

Please view paarsurrey comments on blog “triangulation” for your valuable opinion:

“Do you like this Muslim?”

http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/do-you-like-this-muslim/

http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/do-you-like-this-muslim/#comment-125420

Paarsurrey

“But with only a little searching, the not so pretty side of his Islam is easy to find. Apparently Green admitted that back in the 90s he said that Muslims and Westerners cannot live peaceably together and that dying while fighting jihad is one of the surest ways to Paradise and Allah’s good pleasure.”

There Abdur Raheem Green is wrong; there is no general commandment, repeat, not a single one, in Quran to fight with the innocent non-believers or any other innocent* non-Muslim (Jews, Christians, and Atheists etc all included):
[33:49] And follow not the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and leave alone their annoyance, and put thy trust in Allah; for Allah is sufficient as a Guardian.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=33&verse=48
Muhammad was commanded by One-True-God to have forbearance for disbelievers and the hypocrites, and leave alone their annoyance.

*Non-warring

No violence in Quran; the violence is in the minds of the Atheists

March 5, 2014

I wrote comments on the blog “Dwindling In Unbelief” on the topic “Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”; that could be viewed by clicking the following links:

“Dwindling In Unbelief”

“Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26149572&postID=114987521408797161&page=2&token=1394038390044

paarsurrey said…
@ Richard : Sun Mar 02, 06:52:00 PM 2014.

I don’t get you.

You have mentioned “By your selected translation of Quran 4:89-97”; then you don’t give the same.

Please see below the first two verses given by me, and given by you.

Verses quoted by me (in my post of Sun Mar 02, 04:12:00 PM 2014):

[4:89] What has happened to you that you are divided into two parties regarding the hypocrites? And Allah has overthrown them because of what they earned. Desire ye to guide him whom Allah has caused to perish? And for him whom Allah causes to perish thou shalt not find a way.
[4:90] They wish that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you may become all alike. Take not, therefore, friends from among them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah. And if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and take no friend nor helper from among them;

Verses given by you (in your post of Sun Mar 02, 06:52:00 PM 2014):

4:89 Notice that Allah has caused the unbelievers to perish.
4:90 One must not befriend unbelievers, unless they become Muslim. If they do not SEIZE THEM AND KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM.

I give the text of the correspoinding verses quoted by me in the roman alphabet also for your convenience:

[4:89] fa-mā lakum fī l-munāfiqīna fiʾatayni wa-llāhu ʾarkasahum bi-mā kasabū ʾa-turīdūna ʾan tahdū man ʾaḍalla llāhu wa-man yuḍlili llāhu fa-lan tajida lahū sabīlan

[4:90] ʾillā lladhīna yaṣilūna ʾilā qawmin baynakum wa-baynahum mīthāqun ʾaw jāʾūkum ḥaṣirat ṣudūruhum ʾan yuqātilūkum ʾaw yuqātilū qawmahum wa-law shāʾa llāhu la-sallaṭahum ʿalaykum fa-la-qātalūkum fa-ʾini ʿtazalūkum fa-lam yuqātilūkum wa-ʾalqaw ʾilaykumu s-salama fa-mā jaʿala llāhu lakum ʿalayhim sabīlan

Please check up and rectify.
Wed Mar 05, 08:53:00 AM 2014

Atheists! Is cutting off a leg infected with gangrene; a cruel act?

February 12, 2014

Atheists! Is cutting off a leg infected with gangrene; a cruel act?

I wrote comments on an atheists’ blog “Dwindling In Unbelief” on the topic “Pope Francis: Islam and the Quran are opposed to every form of violence”; that could be viewed by clicking the following links:

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2013/11/pope-francis-islam-and-quran-are.html

paarsurrey said…
@ Steve Wells : Tue Feb 11, 09:50:00 AM 2014
Regarding Cutting of leg; Please read the following:

Leg Amputation

When you have a blockage or narrowing of the arteries supplying your legs, the circulation to your legs is reduced. You may have developed pain in your foot or feet waking you at night, ulceration, or black areas on your toes, feet or leg.
If severe arterial disease is left untreated, the lack of blood circulation will cause the pain to increase. Tissue in the leg will die due to lack of oxygen and nutrients, which leads to infection and gangrene. In some cases, gangrene can be very dangerous as the infection can spread through the body and become life-threatening.

Amputation is always a last resort and will only be recommended if your surgeon has decided it is not possible to improve the circulation in any other way.

The main sites of amputation are;

• Just below the knee
• Through the knee
• Through the thigh

The site of amputation will depend on how poor the blood supply to your leg is. If possible, below knee amputations are performed, as it is easier to walk with an artificial limb after the operation. However, many people do well after a thigh amputation. The following information will help to explain the procedure of leg amputation:” Unquote

http://www.circulationfoundation.org.uk/help-advice/peripheral-arterial-disease/leg-amputation/

Do you think the Doctor who operates and cuts off a leg infected by gangrene; he does a cruel act?
Wed Feb 12, 01:26:00 PM 2014

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26149572&postID=8462729359203047845&page=1&token=1392240387778

“Pope Francis: Islam and the Quran are opposed to every form of violence”2

February 11, 2014

I wrote comments on the blog “Dwindling In Unbelief” on the topic “Pope Francis: Islam and the Quran are opposed to every form of violence”; that could be viewed by clicking the following links:

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2013/11/pope-francis-islam-and-quran-are.html
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26149572&postID=8462729359203047845&page=1&token=1392133311657

paarsurrey said…
@Steve Wells : Mon Feb 10, 03:39:00 PM 2014

Thank you for informing me that you live in the USA. It is a good state to live in; and many of my kith and kin live there and enjoy life there.

Please again peruse the verses of Quran I have quoted; you may read as many verses before them and after them as you like; you will realize that the verses don’t discuss anybody’s conversion to Islam by force; this is not all the subject matter of the verses.

Quran is for ethical, moral and spiritual up-lift of the human beings; it has got nothing to do with ruling any territory/ies and grabbing power.

The verses are general for everybody Muslim or non-Muslim. A Muslim who is cruel and jealous of others and persecutes others for the bounties others have got; he is as fit to receive the punishment and wrath of the One-True-God as those who don’t believe in Islam. This is exactly mentioned in the verses. In fact terrorism and its punishment is discussed in them, not literally but in so many words.

It is for this that I wrote you “to prove that the teachings mentioned in the verses are against the norms of the society and are violent”.

Thanks for joining the discussion; others could also join the discussion if they don’t agree with me.

After all it is a friendly discussion.

Tue Feb 11, 07:41:00 AM 2014

paarsurrey said…
@ Steve Wells : Tue Feb 11, 09:50:00 AM 2014

Regarding Cutting of leg Please read the following:

Leg Amputation

When you have a blockage or narrowing of the arteries supplying your legs, the circulation to your legs is reduced. You may have developed pain in your foot or feet waking you at night, ulceration, or black areas on your toes, feet or leg.
If severe arterial disease is left untreated, the lack of blood circulation will cause the pain to increase. Tissue in the leg will die due to lack of oxygen and nutrients, which leads to infection and gangrene. In some cases, gangrene can be very dangerous as the infection can spread through the body and become life-threatening.
Amputation is always a last resort and will only be recommended if your surgeon has decided it is not possible to improve the circulation in any other way.
The main sites of amputation are;
• Just below the knee
• Through the knee
• Through the thigh
The site of amputation will depend on how poor the blood supply to your leg is. If possible, below knee amputations are performed, as it is easier to walk with an artificial limb after the operation. However, many people do well after a thigh amputation. The following information will help to explain the procedure of leg amputation:

http://www.circulationfoundation.org.uk/help-advice/peripheral-arterial-disease/leg-amputation/

Do you think the Doctor who operates and cuts off a leg infected by gangrene; he does a cruel act?

Wed Feb 12, 01:26:00 PM 2014

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26149572&postID=8462729359203047845&page=1&token=1392240387778

“Pope Francis: Islam and the Quran are opposed to every form of violence”

February 10, 2014

I wrote comments on the blog “Dwindling In Unbelief” on the topic “Pope Francis: Islam and the Quran are opposed to every form of violence”; that could be viewed by clicking the following links:

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2013/11/pope-francis-islam-and-quran-are.html
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26149572&postID=8462729359203047845&page=1&token=1392051685069

paarsurrey said…
@ Steve Wells : Sun Feb 09, 02:14:00 PM 2014

I now give below the verse 5:33 selected by you with the verses in the context from Quran:

[5:28] And relate to them truly the story of the two sons of Adam, when they each offered an offering, and it was accepted from one of them and was not accepted from the other. The latter said, ‘I will surely kill thee.’ The former replied, ‘Allah accepts only from the righteous.
[5:29] ‘If thou stretch out thy hand against me to kill me, I am not going to stretch out my hand against thee to kill thee. I do fear Allah, the Lord of the universe.
[5:30] ‘I wish that thou shouldst bear my sin as well as thy sin, and thus be among the inmates of the Fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong.’
[5:31] But his mind induced him to kill his brother, so he killed him and became one of the losers.
[5:32] Then Allah sent a raven which scratched in the ground, that He might show him how to hide the corpse of his brother. He said, ‘Woe is me! Am I not able to be even like this raven so that I may hide the corpse of my brother?’ And then he became regretful.
[5:33] On account of this, We prescribed for the children of Israel that whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. And Our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land.
[5:34] The reward of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to create disorder in the land is only this that they be slain or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on alternate sides, or they be expelled from the land. That shall be a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a great punishment;
[5:35] Except those who repent before you have them in your power. So know that Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[5:36] O ye who believe! fear Allah and seek the way of approach unto Him and strive in His way that you may prosper.
[5:37] Surely, if those who disbelieve had all that is in the earth and as much over again, to ransom themselves therewith from the punishment of the Day of Resurrection, it would not be accepted from them; and they shall have a painful punishment.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=5&verse=28

Now you have to prove that the teachings mentioned in the verses are against the norms of the society and are violent.

Please go through them and prove your viewpoint.

Thanks
Mon Feb 10, 09:01:00 AM 2014

“Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?”: No, Quran is not violent; absolutely not

February 9, 2014

I have written comments on the topic “Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?” at the “Dwindling In Unbelief” blog :

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.ca/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html

My comments can be read by clicking the following link:

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26149572&postID=114987521408797161&page=2&token=1391965526224

paarsurrey said…

@ Richard said:
Sat Feb 08, 04:36:00 PM 2014

Ignoring the evil words of your post; I was not asking the number of verses that you think are violent in Quran; I asked to choose One- the most violent verse you think in Quran for discussion, not in comparison to Bible; but from your list of violent verses in Quran.

In this connection you have preferred to choose two places from Quran; we now discuss the first place mentioned by you namely Verses (2:191-193).

I give here the context verses:

[2:191] And fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress. Surely, Allah loves not the transgressors.
[2:192] And kill them wherever you meet them and drive them out from where they have driven you out; for persecution is worse than killing. And fight them not in, and near, the Sacred Mosque until they fight you therein. But if they fight you, then fight them: such is the requital for the disbelievers
[2:193] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[2:194] And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is freely professed for Allah. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the aggressors.
[2:195] The violation of a Sacred Month should be retaliated in the Sacred Month; and forall sacred things there is the law of retaliation. So, whoso transgresses against you, punish him for his transgression to the extent to which he has transgressed against you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=2&verse=188

As one could see the verses are not general for all non-believers but are specific, as the context shows, for the Meccans who had declared a war with Muslims and continually attacked the Muslims at Medina, a hundred miles away.

Now please prove from the verses your viewpoint that the verses are violent and against the normal behavior of human beings.

Sun Feb 09, 09:05:00 AM 2014

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I further wrote following comments:

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26149572&postID=114987521408797161&page=2&token=1391981271159

paarsurrey said:

@Richard : your comments of Sun Feb 09, 11:14:00 AM 2014.

So you have not read Quran from beginning to the end yourself and you have relied on hearsay. Your observation has not come to you naturally while reading Quran yourself.

The verses of Quran are clear seen with the verses in the context; one could understand them unambiguously.

If you want to follow the wrong interpretation of the extremists; then you become one yourself. It is your own choice; it is not the teachings of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

The verses are peaceful and rational; and according to the norms of humans in all ages.
Sun Feb 09, 01:27:00 PM 2014

World Muslim Leader Condemns Violence and Warfare in Muslim Countries

February 3, 2014

1st February 2014
PRESS RELEASE

World Muslim Leader Condemns Violence and Warfare in Muslim Countries
Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad prays for peace and an end to atrocities

The World Head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and Fifth Khalifa, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, lamented the “pitiful and sorry-state” of much of the Muslim world during his weekly Friday Sermon delivered on 31st January 2014.

Speaking at the Baitul Futuh Mosque in London, the Khalifa highlighted the examples of war-torn Syria and of Pakistan, where he said countless innocent people were being targeted and persecuted. He called on Ahmadi Muslims around the world to pray for the peace and stability of the Muslim world.

Speaking about the devastating consequences of the war in Syria, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad said:

“The situation in Syria is going from bad to worse. Both the Government and the Opposition rebels have committed extreme cruelties. The nation’s children, its elderly and its women are all being targeted.

Innocent people are being arrested, starved and tortured. Muslims are perpetrating these cruelties on other Muslims and so are giving non-Muslims the opportunity to raise false accusations against Islam…

For the sake of either retaining power or gaining power, the government and opposition are both actively destroying the children of their nation.”

His Holiness prayed for the cruelty in Syria to end and for justice to prevail before commenting on Pakistan.

Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad said:

“In Pakistan we also find that extreme cruelty is being inflicted upon members of the public and particularly against Ahmadi Muslims. People are being physically and mentally tortured. Other Pakistanis are also being trapped in this system of cruelty and it seems the intensity of these grave circumstances will continue to increase… There is a great need for prayers that all forms of extremism and terrorism end.”

The Khalifa concluded by remarking upon the dire circumstances witnessed in many other Muslim countries including Egypt and Libya.

He prayed that Islam’s name would not be tarnished or defamed by the atrocities and injustices being falsely perpetrated in the name of the religion.

22 Deer Park Road, London, SW19 3TL UK
Tel/Fax: 020 8544 7613 Mob: 077954 90682 Email: press@amjinternational.org
Press Secretary AMJ International
Short URL of this page to share: alislam.org/e/2748

Divine Slaughter: The Bible & The Mahabharata

January 6, 2014

Paarsurrey says:

The Truthful Religion in its origin does not mention that the One-True-God (Allah Yahweh Ahura-Mazda Parameshwara) ever commanded to kill a person except in self-defense:

[25:69] And those who call not on any other God along with Allah, nor kill a person that Allah has forbidden except for just cause, nor commit adultery (or fornication), and he who does that shall meet with the punishment of sin.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=25&verse=68

It is always the wrong-doer politicians who manipulate the word revealed and do killings “in the name of religion or in the name of the One-True-God” for their own evil ends; and the greedy clergy side with them.

Triangulations

Violent ScripturesWhen it comes to Iron Age bloody myths, the Hindu Mahabharata beats out the Jewish/Christian Bible hands down by two orders of magnitude. Steve Wells documents how the God of the Bible sanctioned almost 25 million deaths, while the Mahabharata itself (11.26) tells us that 1,660,020,000 died in the dharma-sanctified mutual family slaughter on the plain of Kurukshetra alone — even more die elsewhere.

Question to readers: Am I a bad father to read such bloody literature to my 11 year-old daughter — not the Bible, mind you, but the Mahabharata? Maybe I should instead read her the gory tales of how Yahweh cheers on the Jews to slaughter of Moabites, Ammonites and Philistines — that way she can at least grow up knowing the same sacred stories as her friends and perhaps fit in better. What do you think?

triangle_end_tiny

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