Archive for the ‘Uncategorized’ Category

Can we remove the dogma from science?

April 4, 2017

#1 paarsurrey

Please
Regards

OOOOO
https://www.quora.com/Has-science-become-too-dogmatic

 

Is eulogizing science out of proportion a symptom of scientism rather than science?

April 4, 2017

#1 paarsurrey

Is faith in science out of its limitations a symptom of scientism rather than science? Please
Regards

Muhammad smashed no idols physically. Did he? _________(2)

April 4, 2017

I wrote following post on the above topic in my most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums

Please click the post numbers to get to the discussion:

#730 paarsurrey

The Kaaba was owned:

  1. Equally by Muhammad and the Meccans who were all descendants of Abraham and Ishmael, who had built this worship house for worship of ONE God, Muhammad was even more entitled to it because he wanted to restore it to its original position. Abraham and Ishmael never put any idols in it. Rather than going to other temples and emptying them from the idols , Abraham thought it proper, for peace, to build a house of worship of his own where his progeny could worship ONE God. So, Muhammad had every right to empty it from the idols that were put later on in the house , for which he gave reasonable and brilliant arguments to the Meccans.

Please
Regards

Experiencing God

April 2, 2017

Paarsurrey posts on the above topic, please read the last post first, in the reverse order.

  1. paarsurrey

    Please elaborate. Regards

    Post by: paarsurrey, Yesterday at 11:32 AM in forum: General Religious Debates
  2. paarsurrey
  3. paarsurrey
  4. paarsurrey
  5. paarsurrey
  6. paarsurrey
  7. paarsurrey
  8. paarsurrey

Which God or no-god is Truthful?

April 2, 2017

What is wrong with smashing the idols?
sub-title: Which God or no-god is Truthfu

My most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums

I give here my posts and posts from others, mentioning the post numbers without giving the names of the other persons whose posts I wrote my comments on. Please click the post numbers to get to know the persons.

#705 paarsurrey wrote:

What is wrong with smashing the idols?
sub-title: Which God or no-god is Truthful? (reference post #701 to #703 )

No-God cannot create anything from nothing. Right? Please
The truthful God is ascertained from the attributes of a religion (or no-religion) given in its scripture that are the verities or His attributes reflected in the nature, created by Him. Please
Regards

Is the Scientific Method really Scientific?—-(2)

April 2, 2017

I started a thread on the above topic in my most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums

I give here my posts mentioning the post numbers without giving the names of persons in response to whose posts I wrote my comments. Please click the post numbers to get to know the persons.

#1 paarsurrey, 

Is the Scientific Method really Scientific?
All methods are philosophical so must it be. Please

Regards

#31

Paarsurrey wrote: #31

“a changing gravitational constant”

Is it because it helps the humans to have some perception of the Ever-Eternal-God, His Oneness does not change, is ever-constant , yet His attributes change all the time, so other things created by Him always keep changing/moving/orbiting, cannot stop unless He commands them to stop, and they finish? Please
Regards

Is faith the backbone of Science?

April 2, 2017

I started a thread on the above topic in my most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums

I give here my posts mentioning the post numbers without giving the names of persons in response to whose posts I wrote my comments. Please click the post numbers to get to know the persons.

#1 paarsurrey

Is faith the backbone of Science?
Please

Regards

#3 l.……. wrote:

No. Science uses the scientific method of repeated experimentation and observation to battle any use of faith. When a “scientific theory” is presented, scientists scramble to do their best to disprove it.

Paarsurrey comments: #20

“repeated experimentation and observation to battle any use of faith.”

  1. Does repeated “experimentation and observation” make it immune from the errors or blunders?
  2. After how many experimentation the result understood/interpreted will be considered 100% correct?
  3. Has it ever happened that the result understood to be correct was later found to be erroneous?
  4. The word “repeated” shows that doubt was there in the very first place, and it was only out of faith that the  exercise was continued. Science is, therefore, the fruit of faith.
  5. It is not a “battle” with faith, rather it is battle with doubt. Human conscience reject doubt, faith generates peace and  progress .
So, it is faith and faith alone in the “experimentation and observation” that science, the scientists and the people dealing in science that science “works”  and continues its endeavors. Please
Right? Please

Regards

OOOOOOOOOOOO

Search/Research:

*1 .

http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html

 

 

Is the Scientific Method really Scientific?

April 1, 2017

I started a thread on the above topic in my most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums

I give here my posts mentioning the post numbers without giving the names of persons in response to whose posts I wrote my comments. Please click the post numbers to get to know the persons.

#1 paarsurrey, 

Is the Scientific Method really Scientific?
All methods are philosophical so must it be. Please

Regards

#2 S……….. said:

“In other words, is the method used by those who claim to be good at gathering knowledge truly something that can be considered knowledge by those who claim to be good at gathering knowledge?”

Of course not. 

Paarsurrey Comments:

  1. Does one mean that science is circular in reasoning? Please
  2. Those who gather knowledge do it on faith  of it being useful. Had they no faith they won’t have gathered it? Right? Please

#3 i…….. said:

Scientists do have values. Scientists value:

– logic and critical thinking
– evidence
– verifiability and repeatability
– discovering new things

If you don’t value those things, you probably won’t value science. BUT, you probably DO value those things, you just haven’t thought about it.

If you use any technology from cars to computers, then you value the things that science values, because none of those things are possible without those values.

#4 S.…….said in response:

Thus, if I like using my cell phone, I must believe in tectonic plate subduction?

Paarsurrey comments on #3 above:

  1. Science is under discussion please, not the scientists. Please
  2. Value of a thing is finite, and is limited by its scope that is clearly defined; it has no value out of its scope. It will be just irrelevant.

#5 l.……. wrote in response to #1 :

The scientific method is the basis of science. So, it would be absurd to claim that the scientific method is not scientific.

sci·ence
ˈsīəns/
noun

  1. the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

sci·en·tif·ic meth·od
noun

a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

Paarsurrey comments:

  1. Please quote from a textbook of science that scientific method is not a philosophical method. If that would have been the case the science need not have had a discipline called “Philosophy of science”, in fact science was not a separate subject but was a branch of philosophy in the past.
  2. The scientific method is the basis of science. So, it would be absurd to claim that the scientific method is not scientific.
  3. Does one agree that science is limited to the “physical and natural” and has no value out of these realms?

 

Time, space and Reality

March 31, 2017

I participated in the discussion on the above topic in my most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/probability-of-gods-existence.196797/page-8#post-5131250

I give here my posts mentioning the post numbers without giving the names of persons in response to whose posts I wrote my comments. Please click the post numbers to get to know the persons.

#148

Paarsurrey commented:

I like the post.
It is human who need time and space to perceive reality, reality does not need dimensions of time and pace.
Regards

Muhammad smashed no idols physically. Did he?

March 17, 2017

What is wrong with smashing the idols?

I participated in the discussion on the above topic in my most cherished discussion forum Religious Forums.

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/what-is-wrong-with-smashing-the-idols.194938/

I give here my posts mentioning the post numbers without giving the names of persons in response to whose posts I wrote my comments. Please click the post numbers to get to know the persons.

sc….. said:
Prophet Luqmaan once said to his son “O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice.”

“O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice.”
The verse does not speak of demolishing the idols. Is it? Please
Regards

#177 paarsurrey commented:

“O my son, do not set up any idols beside God; idolatry is a gross injustice.”
The better point is that one concentrates on the reasons/arguments given in the above verse (any many others) namely doing “gross injustice by believing in idolatry”. Please
Regards

OOO

SR…..said:

#179 paarsurrey, 

“fundamental human right”

Muhammad cared for all the humans rights rather he was the champion of the human rights. We follow Muhammad, not the politically motivated Terrorists of any time and place. Please
Regards

OOO

Note: 1

Search term: Who owned Kaaba in the time of Muhammad?

The Meccans did not own the Kaaba exclusively . The ownership of the Kaaba was hereditary to the heirs of Abraham and Ishmael who built this house of worship and they were strong believers in One God. 

The keys are in the hands of one family

At the time of the Prophet , each aspect to do with the rites of Hajj was in the hands of different sub-groups of the Quraish. Every one of these would eventually lose control of their guardianship of a particular rite except one. On the conquest of Makkah, the Prophet was given the keys to the Kaaba and instead of keeping it in his own possession; he returned them back to the Osman ibn Talha ® of the Bani Shaiba family. They had been the traditional key keepers of the Kaaba for centuries; and the Prophet confirmed them in that role till the end of time by these words

“Take it, O Bani Talha, eternally up to the Day of Resurrection, and it will not be taken from you unless by an unjust, oppressive tyrant.”

Whether Caliph, Sultan or King – the most powerful men in the world have all had to bow to the words of the Prophet

Note:2

“It may be noted here that the idols belonged to Abraham’s own family. Otherwise it was not right and proper for him to break other people’s idols.”

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1701&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2

OOO

#180 paarsurrey 

That is one of the focal points. The idolators must answer, if they please.
Anybody, please
Regards

OOO

#195 paarsurrey

There is no such teaching in Quran. Please
Regards

OOO

#312 paarsurrey, 

“He left the temple”
Did this happen in a temple? Please quote the relevant verse of Quran?
Regards

OOO

#313 paarsurrey, 

I give the event from Wikipedia:
According to Genesis Rabbah 38.13 R. Hiyya, a first generation Jewish sage, tells the following story:

[IMG]
Abraham cast into the fire
Terah was an idol manufacturer who once went away and left Abraham in charge of the store. A man walked in and wished to buy an idol. Abraham asked him how old he was and the man responded “fifty years old.” Abraham then said, “You are fifty years old and would worship a day old statue!” At this point the man left ashamed.

Later, a woman walked in to the store and wanted to make an offering to the idols. So Abraham took a stick, smashed the idols and placed the stick in the hand of the largest idol. When Terah returned he asked Abraham what happened to all the idols. Abraham told him that a woman came in to make an offering to the idols. Then the idols argued about which one should eat the offering first. Then the largest idol took the stick and smashed the other idols.

Terah responded by saying that they are only statues and have no knowledge. Whereupon Abraham responded by saying that you deny their knowledge, yet you worship them! At which point Terah took Abraham to Nimrod.

Nimrod proclaims to Abraham that we should worship fire. Abraham responds that water puts out fire. So Nimrod declares they worship water. Abraham responds that clouds hold water. So Nimrod declares they worship clouds. Abraham responds that wind pushes clouds. So Nimrod declares they worship wind. Abraham responds that people withstand wind.

Nimrod becomes angry with Abraham and declares that Abraham shall be cast into the fire, and if Abraham is correct that there is a real God, that God will save him. Then Abraham is cast into the fire and is saved by God.
Abraham and the Idol Shop – Wikipedia
Regards

OOO

#320 paarsurrey, 

“That is not religious doctrine as I understand the concept.”

I agree with one. There is no such teaching in Quran. Other religions are respected in Quran and by Muhammad. Please
Regards

OOO

#328 paarsurrey, 

As I had stated earlier in a post, the event did not occur in a temple, it occurred in a shop (among many shops there) where idols were made and sold. The very people who made idols with their hands could amend or undo them, without any objection from others.
So, there was no desecration of any temple or the people in a temple.
While at the shop, Abraham started giving reasonable and very brilliant arguments without any anguish or any indignation and with wisdom. Right? Please
Regards

OOO

#331 paarsurrey, Jan 30, 2017

The idols distract one’s attention from the real Godhead, so it serves no purpose. Please
Did the idols ever say that

  • they perform an important role between the humans and the God,
  • and or (Supreme)God had assigned such role to them
  • or that (Supreme)God abhors direct interaction with the righteous human
  • and as such inanimates will perform an intermediary role between the righteous and the (Supreme)God?

There is nothing like that. Right? Please
Regards

OOO

#333 paarsurrey,

Abraham gave suchlike reasonable and rational arguments to the clients of the shop to the people who came to purchase the idols as mentioned in the Genesis Rabbah, I repeat here again, one might have missed it:

Abraham and the Idol Shop
appears in Genesis Rabbah chapter 38 and is a biblical commentary on the early life of Abraham. The commentary explains what happened to Abraham when he was a young boy working in his father’s idol shop. The story has been used as a way to discuss monotheism and faith in general.
According to Genesis Rabbah 38.13 R. Hiyya, a first generation Jewish sage, tells the following story:

Terah was an idol manufacturer who once went away and left Abraham in charge of the store. (1)A man walked in and wished to buy an idol. Abraham asked him how old he was and the man responded “fifty years old.” Abraham then said, “You are fifty years old and would worship a day old statue!” At this point the man left ashamed.

(2)Later, a woman walked in to the store and wanted to make an offering to the idols. So Abraham took a stick, smashed the idols and placed the stick in the hand of the largest idol.
(3)When Terah returned he asked Abraham what happened to all the idols. Abraham told him that a woman came in to make an offering to the idols. Then the idols argued about which one should eat the offering first. Then the largest idol took the stick and smashed the other idols.

(4)Terah responded by saying that they are only statues and have no knowledge. Whereupon Abraham responded by saying that you deny their knowledge, yet you worship them! At which point Terah took Abraham to Nimrod.

Nimrod proclaims to Abraham that we should worship fire. Abraham responds that water puts out fire. So Nimrod declares they worship water. Abraham responds that clouds hold water. So Nimrod declares they worship clouds. Abraham responds that wind pushes clouds. So Nimrod declares they worship wind. Abraham responds that people withstand wind.

Nimrod becomes angry with Abraham and declares that Abraham shall be cast into the fire, and if Abraham is correct that there is a real God, that God will save him. Then Abraham is cast into the fire and is saved by God.
Abraham and the Idol Shop – Wikipedia
Please see the above (some four) arguments together with the demonstration done by Abraham. It was never done in a temple but in a manufacturer’s shop. One may like to ask the respected Judaism people in the forum about the rationality of Abraham.
Nothing was done by Abraham that was against the humanity. Rather. what was done to Abraham was sheer against humanity, a human being was set to fire alive . Right? Please
Anybody, please
Regards

OOO

#417 paarsurrey, 

Coming to the topic, please
What is wrong with smashing the idols?

The statues that Abraham broke, to demonstrate an argument, were not yet sold for worship, neither for the private worship nor for the worship in a temple.
Regards

OOO

#424 paarsurrey,

There is no idol in Mecca now, all the idols were removed by the Meccan non-believers toward the end of Muhammad’s life.
The Meccans were from the line of Abraham through his elder son Ishmael. Abraham built this House of Worship of ONE-God, later the Meccans out of superstition put idols in it wrongly. When their superstition ended, they removed these idols and restored it to its original form or brilliant status. OK? Please
Regards

OOO

#523 paarsurrey, 

It is put there only as a mark for denoting end of a circle completed by a Muslim.
Regards

OOO

#528 paarsurrey, 

Did I ever express any anger here? G-d bestowed life to every human being with his grace and he has given one freedom to live one’s life as one wants in this world, the accountability will be done by Him in the hereafter. I don’t find any reason to deny it and be angry. Please live as one pleases.
Regards

OOO

#532 paarsurrey, 

“But if these don’t belong to you, then you have no rights to damaging other people’s properties and no rights in damaging public properties; you are breaking the law.”

I agree with one. Please
Regards

OOO

#534 paarsurrey, 

Please paraphrase colored in magenta. I don’t get one exactly.
Regards

OOO

#536 paarsurrey 

What is wrong with smashing the idols?

One may like to read post #1 in another thread, it is connected to this thread.
Please
Regards

OOO

#589 paarsurrey, 

I didn’t get one exactly. Please
Regard

OOO

#592 paarsurrey, 

Could Muhammad do something against the Quranic Revelation? Please
Regards

OOO

#594paarsurrey, Today at 11:07 AM

One’s source as one mentioned was based on history of the time of Muhammad. When was the first history book written narrating the event ? Please
Regards

OOO

 

What is wrong with smashing the idols?

Is it equitable on part of of the non-believers to put idols in a worship-house constructed solely for the worship of ONE-GOD? Please
Regards

OOO