“God does not exist” can be dismissed without evidence

“I do not believe God exists.

I have found no evidences/proofs that “God exists”.

“God does not exist”

I have found many evidences and proofs that God cannot exist.

Post 24:

https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=901183#901183

Religion 

I also have a section dedicated to religion – Christianity in general. YES, it does belong in the fantasy category too!

I have written the odd article over the last few years. If you’re a fundamentalist Christian they’ll probably bring out the so-called righteous anger of God in you… either that or you will block your ears as so many Christians do and shout out “I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you!” or make silly claims that I’m misrepresenting the bible when I’m not. If you’re an atheist or agnostic you’ll be sure to get plenty of chuckles. If you’re none of the above, then hopefully they will at least give you food for thought.

https://reckersworld.jimdo.com/

Seeking after God like a seeker not like a philosopher

Hadrat Mirza Bashir Ahmad (ra) 1893- 1963

It should be understood that the intention with which a person undertakes a task, bears heavily on the result. The same thing done with one intention has quite a different result when it is done with some other purpose.

Intention has a deep impact upon every action of man, and it always manifests itself in one way or the other. Imagine a man, for instance, who obeys his master only because he is his master, but beyond that he has neither any interest in his affairs, nor any personal attachment to him. In such a case his obedience would be robotic. His work, which he does out of a sense a duty, would be devoid of zeal or enthusiasm.

But if the same person serves a man for whom he has personal regard and in whose affairs he takes the greatest interest, his obedience would immediately take on a different form. He would now carry out his duties with full zest and enthusiasm. Therefore, we conclude that although his duty is the same i.e., to obey his master’s orders, his intention greatly determines how he carries out his duty.

Let us also consider the case of a philosopher and a seeker after truth, both of whom set out for the same goal—i.e., to find out about God’s existence—but with completely different intentions. The philosopher tries to use his knowledge and wisdom to ascertain whether or not the universe has a creator. Even if he comes to the conclusion that God does exist, he will not bother to find out His attributes or His relationship with His creatures, for this is not his aim. His aim is only to satisfy his intellectual thirst. He is not desirous of communion with God, nor anxious for His nearness, nor craving for His friendship. He does not have the desire to reach Him, nor does he care to know of His Will.

A seeker, on the other hand, aims at reaching God. He wants to have communion with Him and desires His friendship and nearness. He is anxious to know of His Will, so that he can follow it. Can we put the philosopher and the seeker on the same plane? Of course not.

The first step, therefore, is that one should set one’s intentions straight and seek God like a seeker, not like a philosopher.

Pages 31-33
“Our God” by Mirza Bashir Ahmad

Click to access OurGod.pdf

Methods of Investigation into God’s Existence

Mirza Bashir Ahmad

It is very hard to meet with success unless we adopt the right method of investigation. Otherwise we are likely to waste all our efforts. A man who wants to dig a well to find water can never reach it unless he selects a particular piece of land and starts digging vertically downwards. If he does not dig downwards and instead starts digging parallel to the surface, he will never catch sight of water even if he continues to dig for 200 miles. No sensible person would accept his lamentation that he worked so hard and yet found no water. Therefore, hard work and effort bear no fruit unless they are done in a proper way.

The same is true in spiritual matters. There are particular paths and ways. Unless these are followed we cannot attain any purpose, regardless of how much energy and effort we expend. These laws and principles are wholly and solely for our own benefit. Man’s intellectual and material progress would be impossible without them. Just imagine, if there were no laws in this world and if one could achieve anything just by wishing it.

What would this world look like? Would not ignorance, laziness, and indolence take the place of knowledge, hard work and experience? Would there be any difference between a scholar and a fool, a hard-worker and an idler, an experienced one and a novice? Would the progress of human intellect not be totally blocked? Would the edifice of human morals not come down before our eyes?

Remember, the material, intellectual, practical, moral and spiritual progress that you witness today is entirely dependent on the fact that the world is governed by laws. Take away this law and the door of all progress would be instantly closed. Human brain would be turned into a motionless stone.

Man—the best of creations—would find his status in an instant fall below the lowest creatures. Do not consider these laws to be barriers, for they act like wings which the Creator of the universe has bestowed upon us so that we may scale the heights of knowledge and virtue. These laws are the suns of guidance which your Gracious Lord has raised to show you the way to progress. They are the acid tests which distinguished a scholar from a fool, a worker from an idler, an expert from a novice, and the industrious from the indolent.

Pages 29-30
“Our God” by Mirza Bashir Ahmad

Click to access OurGod.pdf

Atheism is like thinking one is in a dark room while the room is well-lit

The viewers should access the following link to know the context of the discussion; and only then one should form one’s own sincere and independent opinion.

http://fidedubitandum.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/materialism-vs-the-mind/#comment-3918

paarsurrey
April 8th, 2014 at 6:19 am
Reblogged this on paarsurrey and commented:

I totally agree with you.

The same way one could ask the materialists; do you exist? If yes, give its proofs and evidences. They never give answer to this question.

Thanks and regards

http://fidedubitandum.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/materialism-vs-the-mind/#comment-3939

paarsurrey
April 10th, 2014 at 6:03 am

@Debilis : April 9th, 2014 at 11:43 pm
“That one has never occurred to me, I must admit.
I’ll have to remember that.”

Thanks for your appreciation. You make good points defending religion.

The arguments, though sophisticated and philosophical for the learned at times; should have a simple form also so that ordinary people could benefit from them and they could also defend religion on their own.

Most people are not much educated; religion is also for them; they should be equipped to defend religion in simple terms.

Communication between us is proof of our existence; otherwise we are just illusions or shadows of existence.

God has communicated with perfect men among human beings in all ages and all regions of the world; that is a strong proof of His existence.

Regards

http://fidedubitandum.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/materialism-vs-the-mind/#comment-3940

paarsurrey
April 10th, 2014 at 6:46 am

@john zande:April 10th, 2014 at 4:23 am

“1. Philosophy is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat.
2. Metaphysics is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn’t there.
3. Theology is like being in a dark room and looking for a black cat that isn’t there, and shouting “I found it!”
4. Science is like being in a dark room and looking for a switch. The light will reveal a cat… if there is one.”Unquote

I would like to add two more categories to the above.

5. Revealed Religion is like being in a dark room and looking for a cat from its meowing; if the room is dark one cannot know the color of a cat.
6. Atheism is like thinking one is in a dark room while the room is well-lit; and one sees a black cat but insists that there is no cat out there.

Regards

http://fidedubitandum.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/materialism-vs-the-mind/#comment-3943

Frank Morris
April 10th, 2014 at 10:27 pm

John, I’d say you are as much in the dark as any of us, so you don’t know what is there or what isn’t.

Atheism is like being in a brightly lit room filled with cats and denying cats exist.

Perhaps the majority in the room have found something you haven’t found yet.

http://fidedubitandum.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/materialism-vs-the-mind/#comment-3946

paarsurrey
April 11th, 2014 at 5:58 am

@Frank Morris : April 10th, 2014 at 11:15 pm
“paarsurrey, you and I had the same thought on number 6, but I hadn’t read your post yet.
As an open-minded skeptic who rejected everything told to me at school, home or church to try to see what the facts are really telling me, I may be in a 7th group.
I am in a brightly lit room desperately fumbling for a light switch but finding cats.” Unqote

Frank Morris

Thanks for your appreciation. I regularly view Fide Dubitandum and sometimes I write comments also. I like Debilis defending religion with good arguments.

You are welcome to visit my blog @ https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/

I would be pleased to visit your blog and enjoy your wisdom; please give me the link of your blog.

Regards

Materialism vs the Mind

Paarsurrey says:

I totally agree with you.

The same way one could ask the materialists; do you exist? If yes, give its proofs and evidences. They never give answer to this question.

Thanks and regards

paarsurrey
April 10th, 2014 at 6:03 am

@Debilis : April 9th, 2014 at 11:43 pm
“That one has never occurred to me, I must admit.
I’ll have to remember that.”

Thanks for your appreciation. You make good points defending religion.

The arguments, though sophisticated and philosophical for the learned at times; should have a simple form also so that ordinary people could benefit from them and they could also defend religion on their own.

Most people are not much educated; religion is also for them; they should be equipped to defend religion in simple terms.
Communication between us is proof of our existence; otherwise we are just illusions or shadows of existence.

God has communicated with perfect men among human beings in all ages and all regions of the world; that is a strong proof of His existence.

Regards

Fide Dubitandum

How do you know that you are conscious?

It may seem silly to ask that question. That one is conscious is so obvious, there seems to be no reason to bother asking about how one knows it. Personally, I might have agreed, were it not for the number of times I’ve heard others insist that humans only know things through scientific investigation.

In fact, materialism is rooted in the idea that there is nothing other than the physical. It takes as its starting point that the sciences are the only legitimate form of investigation–because there is nothing other than that which science studies.

But there simply is no scientific test for whether or not one is conscious.

Most of us have never had a brain scan. And anyone who pauses to reflect on the situation will realize that it won’t tell you that you are conscious unless you already know…

View original post 210 more words

“Proof” of God or “evidence” of God : Atheists’ rhetoric

http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/the-myth-of-definitions/#comment-126902

paarsurrey
03/24/2014 at 10:53 am

@ Sabio Lantz
1. “But words are a human creation, a creation of mind and relationship and thus fuzzy by nature.” Unquote

I don’t agree with you here.

Words are not created by humans; humans don’t create any word with the intentions of creating it. They use the already existing words by giving them a little more meaning sometimes. Like a potter gives a shape to clay but does not create the clay; that may some people say the potter has created it; but not exactly.

It is for this that one will not find words that could be traced having been created by somebody, naming a particular human being who has created the word/s.

2. “We need to realize that words are our servants; we should not be the servants of words.” Unquote

I would rather say that words facilitate our communication with one another; it is a bounty bestowed to humans by God; which would have been otherwise impossible.

It happens so often that Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics/ “Humanists”/ “Secularists” ask me to give “proof” of God or “evidence” of God.

I know that they are repeating it as rhetoric of the Atheists; not understanding them exactly. Whatever reason or argument we provide them they would just ridicule or deride it saying it is no argument and or no proof or no evidence.
I ask them to define the words “proof and or evidence” in their own words (not quoting from a dictionary) so that I could understand their personal concept of its meaning to come on the same page for a meaningful discussion.

But they don’t provide it.

Regards

God exists: Simple reasons

http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/#comment-8856

paarsurrey
MAR 18, 2014 @ 19:43:01

@Howie:MAR 18, 2014 @ 01:09:50

Howie said: As far as saying “you feel you have revelation” I may have used the wrong words.
Paarsurey said: You got me wrong, I said, “No, I am not honored with Revelation from God”.

Howie said: Also if I believed I didn’t exist then the act of doing anything at all would be a complete absurdity.
Paarsurey says: Yes one’s consciousness of one’s existence is ample proof of one’s existence; and one declares with full certainty just by communication to others that one exists.

The same way a being having Superior- Consciousness (God) could communicate with humans and declare to them of His existence; like He talked to Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Nature does not talk with anybody; it has never talked to anybody ever; hence it cannot teach humans to talk; therefore it cannot evolve on its own a process that enables human to talk to or communicate with fellow humans and also to have Converse with God.

Howie said: This god that you are talking about hasn’t interacted with me in any way at all.
Paarsurey says: Because one has not chosen the proper way for told by the founders of revealed religions on the basis of Revelation they received from God.

Howie said: Do you know that there are people of many different religions that are sure about their gods and their beliefs and express the same level of certainty as you do?
Paarsurey says:I understand and this is because the founders of their religions in origin were truthful persons and they received the revelation from the same God, I believe in.

Howie said: As far as my parents go, I can see, hear, feel, and smell my parents
Paarsurey says: Yes that is right; but one knows for certain that they are one’s parents from the love and caring they provide one; otherwise one had not seen them mating to be sure of their being one’s parents; yet one is sure having absolutely no doubt that they are one’s parents without getting into DNA checking and matching, the scientific proofs.

Howie said: and have had tons of conversations with them.
Paarsurey says: The same way a being having Superior- Consciousness (God) could communicate with humans and declare to them of His existence; like He talked to Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Please ponder over this simple reasoning; it is simple because religion is for everybody and has to be simple.

Thanks and regards.

God Spoke with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; God honored him With His Converse

I have written a post on the following blog of uncleE; the viewers could add their valuable comments here even if they differ.

“Is there a God?”
“How can we know if God exists? Do philosophical arguments help?”

http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/
http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/#comment-8852

paarsurrey
MAR 17, 2014 @ 15:50:55

@Howie :MAR 16, 2014 @ 16:44:54
” you feel you have revelation of the God you believe in”

Paarsurrey replies:

No, I am not honored with Revelation from God; but the book I suggested you to read; its author did have this blessing; and I had personally met with some other persons who had this blessing and did talk with them.

Like science is a tool that explores into nature, the Work of God; Quran is the Word of God that leads to God in religion.

I give a quote below from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908:

“The Speaker (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) is Honored with Divine Converse”

“I would be guilty of doing great wrong to my fellow beings if I were not to declare at this stage that divine bounty has bestowed upon me the status which I have just defined and has honored me with the kind of converse the features of which I have just set out in detail, so that I should bestow sight upon the blind and should guide the seekers of the One Who has been so far lost, and should give to those who accept the truth the good news of that holy fountain of which many speak but which few find.

I wish to assure the listeners that the God, meeting with Whom is the salvation and eternal welfare of man, cannot be found without following the Holy Quran.

Would that the people were to see that which I have seen, and were to hear that which I have heard, and should lay aside mere tales and should run to the truth! The cleansing water which removes all doubt, that mirror through which that Supreme Being can be seen, is converse with the Divine that I have just mentioned. Let him whose soul seeks the truth arise and search.

I tell you truly that if souls are charged with true seeking and hearts develop true thirst; people would search for that way and would seek that path. How can that way be discovered, and how can the intervening veil be removed? I assure all seekers that it is Islam alone which conveys the good news of that path. All other people have since long sealed up divine revelation. Be sure, however, that this seal is not imposed by God, but is an excuse that is put forward by man on account of his privation.

Be sure that as it is not possible that we should be able to see without eyes, or should be able to hear without ears, or should be able to speak without a tongue, in the same way it is not possible that without the help of the Quran we should be able to behold the countenance of the True Beloved. I was young and am now old but I have not encountered anyone who has quaffed the cup of this visible understanding except out of this holy fountain.

Page 206-207

Click to access Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf

Thanks and regards

Seekers Path is Open to Find God

I have written a post on the following blog of uncleE; the viewers could add their valuable comments here even if they differ.

“Is there a God?”
“How can we know if God exists? Do philosophical arguments help?”
http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/
http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/#comment-8851

paarsurrey
MAR 17, 2014 @ 15:22:18

@ Howie :MAR 17, 2014 @ 14:01:54

If you are a sincere seeker; and as you have explained above; then you are different from other Atheists/Skeptics. They immediately start ridiculing and deriding while you have not done it; I appreciate.

I will suggest you to read the following small volume book, freely available online; I think it will help you.
“The philosophy of Teachings of Islam” by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Click to access Philosophy-of-Teachings-of-Islam.pdf

Thanks and regards

“Do you believe you exist?” Atheists to answer

I have written a post on the following blog of uncleE; the viewers could add their valuable comments here even if they differ.
“Is there a God?”
“How can we know if God exists? Do philosophical arguments help?”
http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/

“Is there a God?”
“How can we know if God exists? Do philosophical arguments help?”

http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/
http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/clues/how-can-we-know-if-god-exists-do-philosophical-arguments-help/#comment-8843

paarsurrey
MAR 16, 2014 @ 15:34:53

@ Howie
MAR 14, 2014 @ 20:11:55, MAR 15, 2014 @ 01:48:29:

I quote your words:
“Looks like you are arguing that the existence of God is self-evident or as some like to say a “properly basic” belief”
“Have you ever worked through your thoughts on what criteria make up a belief that as you say is “very natural” or as others say self-evident? I have worked through this and can’t say I am right, but I’m interested in your thoughts.”

I submit my response.

I believe that the philosophers with all their wisdom could only conclude to the maximum to the level that “there should be a god”; or “there should not be a god”. They cannot go to high level of “God exists”. Their maximum is the minimum of belief that is required in religion.

Hence I don’t make their thoughts as basis of my belief. It is right my belief in God is one of the basics of my beliefs rather it is the prime belief under which my all other beliefs must follow. This is also true that God is self-evident; no doubt about it but I don’t subscribe to the philosophical terms in vogue in this connection.

But my statement is not a “discussion killer”; it is rather a discussion opener.

When I say one for instance; “Do you believe you exist”? Please prove.

The type of reasons that one will provide that may form a practical genre or basis of our further discussion in the topic.

Please keep in mind that God is not for the scientists or philosophers alone that it is vital for us to follow them and their reasons, approaches and their explorations. They are not on the norm of life; that is why they are called genius; they might be experts in their respective fields but in our topic in hand “Existence of God” they are just laymen; equipped with no tools in this field. God is for everybody.

God is not being invented; that we must need them. He does not need to be invented; He would rather abhor this thought. God is not dependent on their finding Him; humans are dependent on Him, whatever their status.

Anybody searching for Him with the methods of philosophy or tools of science will never find Him:

[6:104] Eyes cannot reach Him but He reaches the eyes. And He is the Incomprehensible, the All-Aware.
[6:105] Proofs have indeed come to you from your Lord; so whoever sees, it is for his own good; and whoever becomes blind, it is to his own harm. And I am not a guardian over you.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=6&verse=103

The One-True-God (I don’t mean here Jesus or Krishna; they were not gods) never claimed that one could find Him with the methods of philosophy or tools of science; rather their failure with their tools to find him is a proof that He exists.
They have no say in it except for their own selves. God is more or most for the ordinary and or common people, they need Him most.

Please, therefore, answer this little and innocent question.

Do you believe that you exist?