Bringing atheists (without ridicule and derision)and believers together for a peaceful dialogue

“the Way?”
“Faitheist – bringing atheists and believers together (book review)”

http://theway21stcentury.wordpress.com/
http://theway21stcentury.wordpress.com/2013/09/29/faitheist-bringing-atheists-and-believers-together-book-review/#comment-2399

paarsurrey
1 MARCH, 2014 AT 1:00 AM

@ unkleE and all others who wrote comments on this blog
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim; I also support the idea of a peaceful (without deriding and ridicule) dialogue between the revealed religions and non-religions (Atheists, Agnostics, Skeptics; Humanists) all included.

I live in Toronto; can we meet here (or your like-minded friends)?

Atheists, believers, dialogue, without ridicule, without derision, Faitheist, Ahmadis, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Jews, peaceful Muslim, religions, non-religions, Atheists, Agnostics, Skeptics; Humanists

Vedas | Quran

I have written following posts on my favourite discussion forum; the topic is “The Vedas and the Qur’an – Uncreated” < http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/comparative-religion/148225-vedas-quran-uncreated.html>; one could view the same and comment there or in this blog “ Paarsurrey”, my pleasure.

Paarsurrey says:

#2 We Muslims don’t believe that everything written in the Vedas is in the pristine original form; though Truth could be found in the Vedas and other Word revealed before Quran. We don’t reject them.

#5 Please elaborate as to what do you mean by this. Vedas existed before man existed or before man was able to speak?

#6 Yes knowledge is an attribute of the one true God; hence it is eternal with Him. All attributes of the one true God are eternal and not separable from Him.

But I don’t agree that Vedas are eternal; the knowledge of the one true God is with Him he reveals through the perfect men of a time only that is required by the human beings for guidance in ethical, moral and spiritual realms.

[15:22] And there is not a thing but with Us are the treasures thereof and We send it not down except in a known measure.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=15&verse=21

Those who believe in Vedas; should tell the time , place and the man on whom a particular Veda was revealed. Now we are not talking in terms of abstractions but in concrete terms; please.

#9 In fact I had already answered the question in post #6 above, and I again mention the reply from Quran:

[15:22] And there is not a thing but with Us are the treasures thereof and We send it not down except in a known measure.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=15&verse=21

 #12     There are two distinct phenomena.
1. The knowledge of the one true God; he is All-Knowing and none can know better than him as he has created everything in the universe and beyond it; that knowledge is absolute and it is not possible for the humans to know that; our brains don’t have the capacity to know that all. Quran mention it:

[18:110] Say, ‘If the ocean became ink for the words of my Lord, surely, the ocean would be exhausted before the words of my Lord came to an end, even though We brought the like thereof as further help.’
[18:111] Say, ‘I am only a man like yourselves; but I have received the revelation that your God is only One God. So let him who hopes to meet his Lord do good deeds, and let him join no one in the worship of his Lord.’

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=18&verse=109

Like knowledge, wisdom is also an attribute of Him; the All-Wise one true God therefore reveals on His prophets messengers only to the extent which is appropriate for that time; it is wisdom not withholding of any knowledge. The verse already quoted by me in this connection may please be referred <[15:22] And there is not a thing but with Us are the treasures thereof and We send it not down except in a known measure.>.

Thanks

I appreciate Sanatana Dharma  

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the end time reformer/Krishna for Hindus says:

Please click on the page for a readable view.

http://www.alislam.org/library/browse/volume/Ruhani_Khazain/book/Braheen_e_Ahmadiyya/#page/101/mode/1up

http://www.alislam.org/library/browse/volume/Ruhani_Khazain/book/Braheen_e_Ahmadiyya/#page/102/mode/1up

 

 

Peaceful Spread of Islam in the World

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4713

Centaur wrote:

islam spread violently and forcefully in 90 percent of the now islamic world.A few exceptions are indonesia and may be malaysia and some islands in that region, where islam spread thru trade.

Now it’s migration jihad and womb jihad because a large scale violent jihad is no longer possible atleast for now.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friends

I sometimes wonder as to how the wrong notions stretch even to the minds of my intelligent Atheists Agnostic friends and they side with the opponents of Islam unjustifiably. Islam spread very peacefully since its inception in the world. Just see following lines and correct your notions to prove that you people rightly believe in the freedom of thought freedom of action and the spirit of discovery:

The Spread of Islam started shortly after the death of the Islamic prophet Muhammad in 632. Trade networks connected many regions which helped the spread of Islam. During his lifetime, the community of Muslims, the ummah, was established in the Arabian Peninsula by means of conversion to Islam.

The activities of this quasi-political early ummah resulted in the spread of Islam as far from Mecca as China and Indonesia, the latter containing the world’s largest Muslim population. Today there are between 1.1 billion and 1.8 billion Muslims, making Islam the second-largest religion in the world.[1]

The activities of this quasi-political early ummah resulted in the spread of Islam as far from Mecca as China and Indonesia, the latter containing the world’s largest Muslim population. Today there are between 1.1 billion and 1.8 billion Muslims, making Islam the second-largest religion in the world.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam

Please don’t side with the Christians, Jews and the Hindus, just for convenience and politics.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

‎“The making of a Muslim”

‎
http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/07/13/the-making-of-a-muslim/
‎

Paarsurrey says:‎

Hi friend Moooo

I am sorry that my argument made you angry; while this was not my intention. I wanted ‎that you should humanly realize the fact.‎

You are a rational person as you say and I am happy to learn that. Perhaps you left ‎Christianity as you don’t think it has rational creeds.‎

I would like to quote here some small passages from wikipedia on the topic “The atomic ‎bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were”; you may access the whole article, if you ‎like:‎
‎ ‎
The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuclear attacks near the end of ‎World War II against the Empire of Japan by the United States at the executive order of ‎U.S. President Harry S. Truman on August 6 and August 9, 1945, respectively. The ‎bombs killed as many as 140,000 people in Hiroshima and 80,000 in Nagasaki by the end ‎of 1945,[4 During the journey, Navy Captain William Parsons had armed the bomb, ‎which had been left unarmed to minimize the risks during takeoff. His assistant, 2nd Lt. ‎Morris Jeppson, removed the safety devices 30 minutes before reaching the target area.[21] ‎Responsibility for the timing of the second bombing was delegated to Colonel Tibbets as ‎commander of the 509th Composite Group on Tinian. Scheduled for August 11 against ‎Kokura, the raid was moved forward to avoid a five-day period of bad weather forecast to ‎begin on August 10.[42] Three bomb pre-assemblies had been transported to Tinian, ‎labeled F-31, F-32, and F-33 on their exteriors. On August 8, a dress rehearsal was ‎conducted off Tinian by Maj. Charles Sweeney using Bockscar as the drop airplane. ‎Assembly F-33 was expended testing the components and F-31 was designated for the ‎August 9 mission.[43]‎

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

‎1.‎ Navy Captain William Parsons
‎2.‎ ‎2nd Lt. Morris Jeppson
‎3.‎ Colonel Tibbets
‎4.‎ Maj. Charles Sweeney
Please tell me were the above persons Muslims? I don’t think they were Muslims. Were ‎they peaceful Agnostics, or peaceful Atheists or peaceful Hindus or peaceful Buddhists?‎
Were the inhabitants of Hirishima and Nagasaki heathens? Any friends here please reply; ‎I don’t want that our friend Moooo becomes angry again.‎

All human beings are just like a family; every human being is to be respected and loved; ‎not to be hated anymore.‎

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

‎

How to ascertain truth from untruth distinctively?

wellwateredgarden Says:

March 6, 2009 at 4:44 pm edit

I agree that respecting religious heroes of others certainly could form a basis for dialogue between different faiths and so promote peace.

Since it was God who made the world as we know it, truth can be found everywhere and among all peoples. There is, however, much more half-truth than genuine truth and that is the problem.

You and I are likely searching for the same truth but teachings and backgrounds have given us different perspectives of truth and how that should look. We both have probably stopped looking but now simply defend what we know about truth.

I appreciate you sincerity and love for others and certainly you will be rewarded for that.

May God bless you and keep you!

paarsurrey Says:

March 8, 2009 at 8:53 am edit

Hi wellwateredgarden,

I agree with you. The first step towards uniting the deists; Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs Zoroastrians, Catholics and Protestants etc, is that the heroes of all Revealed Religions were truthful in origin.

Then comes the stage for truths and half truths in the scriptures; how to ascertain untruth mixed with the Truth or to differentiate between evil and virtue. GodAllahYHWH has also solved this problem. As a supposition, please take Quran as a standard. You will see that the problem would be solved in an easy way.

One must note that only Quran gives us the text for a claim and also a reason thereof. Bible and other revealed scriptures of other religions; either won’t give a clear/straightforward text for a claim in their support, in my opinion; and or reasons other scriptures just don’t not have them, in my opinion. Their adherents have to add words and or reasons or wisdom into the mouth of their religious heroes so that the text of their scriptures agrees with the context of their scriptures rationally, logically and naturally.

This we could distinctively know the standard from the un-standard; in an unbiased way and with ease.

I think you would please agree with me.

May GodAllahYHWH bless you!

I respect your faith and religion.

Welcome for any question/peaceful discussion

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus and St.Thomas together meet King of Andrappa, in India

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4810614&postcount=11
I believe Jesus himself sent St.Thomas to Kerala, India, after the event of Crucifixion

Hi

Holger Kersten a German research scholar, not a Muslims, sees genuine clues about Jesus, Mary and St.Thomas visiting India after the event of crucifixion:

Further clues are cited from The Apocryphal Acts of Thomas, and the Gospel of Thomas which are of Syrian origin and have been dated to the 4th Century AD, or possibly earlier. They are Gnostic Scriptures and despite the evidence indicating their authenticity, they are not given credence by mainstream theologians.

In these texts Thomas tells of Christ’s appearance in Andrapolis, Paphlagonia (today known as in the extreme north of Anatolia) as a guest of the King of Andrappa. There he met with Thomas who had arrived separately. It is at Andrapolis that Christ entreated Thomas to go to India to begin spreading his teachings.

It seems that Christ and Mary then moved along the West coast of Turkey, proof of this could be an old stopping place for travellers called the “Home of Mary”, found along the ancient silk route. From here Christ could easily have entered Europe via France. He may have even travelled as far as the British Isles, for in England there is an ancient oak tree called the “Hallowed Tree” which (says local legend) was planted by Christ himself.

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

Hindus, Buddhists and Western scholars now talk of Jesus coming to India.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks
__________________
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Who are the ‘skinheads’?

 

 

 

 

 

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost….2&postcount=25
Peaceful spread of Islam in France

Originally Posted by Kaninchen:
Football hooliganism (rioting, street fighting) became a target of the neo-Nazis in England in the 1960’s and 70’s as a source of members – predominantly ‘skinheads’. Since then the violent youth of many countries, many of whom gather together in football crowds, have been targeted in the same way.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi

Are the ‘skinheads’ Muslims or Christians Catholics Protestants JWs? Please

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Originally Posted by bpcatholic:
You say you are peaceful and love Jesus Mary et cetera…why do you try to make Christianity look bad?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi

I think you are wrong here. I don’t make Christianity look bad.

How could I make them look bad when I love Jesus and Mary? It is true though that the present Christendom is very much mythical in my opinion; and has little (only in name sometimes) image of Jesus and Maryin them.

Nevertheless, I like the Christians rather love them, be they Catholics Protestants JWs etc, as I do love Buddhists and Hindus and Zoroastrians and Jews.

I think there is a lot of real human uplift work to be done in the world with joint and combined efforts of Catholics and peaceful Ahmadi Muslims.

What we can expect from the Atheists and Agnostics? At the most they, the Atheists Agnostics can only play a little part in Scientific and Physical realms of the humans. They don’t claim to believe in Moral and Spiritual realms/faculties of the human beings; that is why their contribution cannot be more than they claim.

Atheism and Agnosticism is the number one problem being faced by Catholics Protestants JWs + 32000 denominations and Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists etc- all Revealed Religions, in Europe, America, and Asia and elsewhere in the world.

It is the combined duty of all the Revealed Religions of the world to work for Physical, Moral and Spiritual uplift of the human beings.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus is a bridge for spiritual understanding between Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, Christians and Muslims

Jesus was mentioned in the Vedic literatures more than 3000+ years before he appeared.

http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm

I understand from our friend Saidevo that this is being denied now by the “Discerning Hindus”.

1. The viewpoint that Hindu religious scriptures became so much corrupted during the British colonial rule in India that it is very difficult even for the Hindu scholars to distinguish the corrupted portions from the original ones. The question arises as to what motive the British had to force these corruptions/changes? I don’t see any.

2. If it is done only not to deny Jesus; while this had been mentioned in the scriptures, it will make the whole scriptures and the prophecies mentioned in them incredulous.

3. Prophecies are mentioned in scriptures and remain secure till such time the person mentioned appears. Parmesher protects the essence of the prophecy to facilitate acceptance of the person. The designs of Parmesher making the prophecy have to be fulfilled; otherwise He would have not done so.

4. A valid question in this connection that arises in the mind is: Do the Hindus have any Promise from Parmesher or God- the Creator of Heavens and Earth to keep their scriptures pristine and fresh as ever? If they have such a promise from the Parmesher; they should present it from every book, as the Hindu scriptures have been written as they say over several thousand of years.

5. India has been ruled in these many, many thousand years by scores of dynasties. If the British could succeed (or the Hindus under the British rule) in tampering with their scriptures; what is the guarantee that the earlier rulers would have also not done it?

6. I appreciate my Hindu friends rejoicing in their scriptures being most ancient. If the aging affect has obscured the original message from God- the Parmesher; then it is better to have a new one instead of insisting on the ancient one. What is the meaningful purpose of revealed scriptures? It is obviously to guide the people when one cannot see in the dark. If that purpose is not served then it is meaningless to be ancient or new.

This is why I say that Jesus is a bridge for understanding between Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, Christians and Muslims as all revealed scriptures of these religions mention advent of Jesus- a truthful person with concordance. It would be impossible for one to influence scriptures of these five great religions spreading over vast regions of the world.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

What justification can there be for the Holy Qur’an to be made the target of such brutal attacks?

• the original Vedas were not man’s fabrication
• a human fabrication lacks the power to establish a lasting order-Vedas
• we do not find any mention of stone worship in the Vedas
• Vedic teaching is full of the mention of the worship of fire` air` water` the moon` the sun` and so on
• What justification can there be for the Holy Qur’an to be made the target of such brutal attacks?

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

However, in accordance with what we are taught by God, we believe that the original Vedas were not man’s fabrication. A human fabrication lacks the power to establish a lasting order.

Although we do not find any mention of stone worship in the Vedas, without a doubt, Vedic teaching is full of the mention of the worship of fire, air, water, the moon, the sun, and so on. There is no verse which prohibits the worship of these objects. Who is to say that the older sects of Hindus are false and only the new sect of Aryas is the true one? People who, by referring to the Vedas, worship these objects, are armed with the powerful argument that there is clear mention of
such worship and nowhere is there any prohibition.

To say that these are the names of God, is a claim which has not as yet been clearly settled. Had it been settled, what reason could there have been for the scholarly pundits in Banares and other cities to have rejected the beliefs of the Aryas? Despite efforts over the past thirty to thirty-five years, very few Hindus have accepted the Arya faith and in comparison with the Sanatan faith and other Hindu sects, the followers of the Arya faith number so few that they are insignificant, nor do they have any influence on the remaining Hindu sects. Similarly, the teachings of nyog, which is attributed to the Vedas, is abhorrent to human dignity and the human sense of honour. As I have already stated, we cannot accept that it is a genuine Vedic teaching. In fact, our well-meaning intentions make us strongly inclined to believe that such teachings must have been introduced later from sensual motives.

Since thousands of years have passed since the original compilation of Vedas it is possible that in different times some scribes added to or subtracted from it. For us it is proof enough that the Arya faith has had millions upon millions of followers for thousands of years who have held it to be the word of God. It is not possible that the work of an imposter could enjoy such honour.

So when we, despite all these obstacles, purely out of fear of God, accept the Vedas to be divine revelation in its origin and assume all the false teachings to be the work of scribes, what justification can there be for the Holy Qur’an to be made the target of such brutal attacks? It is full of injunctions from cover to cover speaking only of the worship of one God. Nowhere does it require man to worship the sun, the moon etc. In fact there are clear statements to the contrary.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Message-of-Peace.pdf

Paarsurrey says:

Everybody is welcome to comment on the above passage peacefully and with rational arguments from one’s own revealed book; even those who differ with me are also welcome here.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Tendency to confine the revelation of God to one’s own language or the Book is based merely on prejudice and ignorance

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

Is it not then a strange coincidence, that both these peoples (Jews and Hindus) have followed the same path in their dogmatic assertions? Likewise, the followers of many other religions entertain similar views, as for example, the Zoroastrians, who claim that their religion originated billions of years before the Vedic revelation. From this it transpires that the tendency (to confine the revelation of God to one’s own language or the Book) is based merely on prejudice and ignorance. This is further abetted by the fact that in the dark ages of the past, people had no access to the information concerning people and countries beyond the boundaries of their homelands. This lack of knowledge on their part led them to draw the wrong conclusions. They had witnessed that God had bestowed upon them a Divine teaching in the form of a Book, and they knew that Messengers of God had been selected from among themselves; hence their erroneous impression that they had been the only people so favourably treated by God, while the rest of the world was unfortunate in being deprived of this blessing.

This erroneous view has done a lot of damage to the world, and it has worked as a seed of mutual enmity and malice which continues to grow. For a long time, it so happened that a people remained hidden from others and one country remained concealed and veiled from the other to the extent that the scholars of the Arya faith used to believe that there was no inhabitation beyond the Himalayas.

When God lifted the veil, it was already too late for them to mend. By this time they were already fixed in their prejudices. All the false distinctive features which people had attributed to their own revealed books, divines, and messengers, had become deeply rooted in their hearts and had become permanently fixed like the etching on stones. Each people had the same misconception that God’s capital was situated in their country. Savage behaviour was predominant among most people of that age. Hence, to them the sword seemed a natural instrument for settling accounts with those people who dared to oppose the old order. Who then would dare to cool down their self-aggrandisement to create an atmosphere conducive to mutual peace?

Paarsurrey says:

The comments are welcome here; even of those who differ with me.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim