Paar Surrey: to “christchurch@christchurchreformed.com”
Date Sep 4, 2008 1:50 PM
Subject: Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross
Hi
I have read your write-up on http://www.christchurchreformed.com/Swoon.htm. Since you do not have any proof from secular history, I think, you should belive what the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 has said. Kindly visit my blogs:
https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com
http://whitemunara.blogspot.com
http://paarsurrey.livejournal.com
and kindly read many articles on the issue of Jesus not dying a cursed death on Cross. Kindly make any comments;even differing opinions are welcome
I respect your faith.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
The above e-mail was sent in response to the write-up of:
http://www.christchurchreformed.com/Swoon.htm,
as desired by them.
Paarsurrey:
I have received an e-mail in resposnse, a lengthy one; a portion of it mentioning Josephus is given here with my response at the end.
Aaron Goerner: <AGoerner@adelphia.net
Of christchurchreformed
Hi,
Thank you for your email.
I hope I am correct in assuming that you are interested in serious discussion and that we can move beyond name calling, fallacies, evasion, bias, special pleading and red herrings that are far too common. Are you willing to engage with well-informed and honest arguments in which we both are willing to consider and diligently answer one another’s statements? If I were to demonstrate the Qur’an is wrong about the death of Jesus would you be willing to leave Islam and accept Christianity? On the other hand, if you convince me that Jesus did not die on the cross, then I am willing to convert to Islam.
You mentioned that I do not have any proof from secular history. This is simply not true. In fact, this indicates to me that you are less than honest because you did not carefully read what I wrote:
The historical evidence demonstrates Jesus died on the cross.
• Josephus (Jewish historian born around 37 AD and died 100 AD) refers to Jesus’ death (Antiquities 18.3.3).
• Tacitus (AD 55-120), a renowned historian of ancient Rome wrote around 115 A.D. that Christ was “executed” by Pilate (Annals 15.44).
Sincerely,
Aaron
Paarsurrey says:
There is no evidence based on secular history sources confirming that Jesus died a cursed death on Cross.
Needless to mention that Josepus was not alive in the time of Jesus to qualify for a firsthand testimony; more so, as the whole Christian mythology invented by Paul is based on this single point;unknown to Jesus himself.
Please read the following excerpts on Josephus, the foremost source often quoted by Christians, to prove their point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
Josephus on Jesus
There are two extant references in Josephus on Jesus, the one directly concerning Jesus has come to be known as the Testimonium Flavianum. These passages appear in The Antiquities of the Jews, written in the year 93 by the Jewish historian Josephus. All extant copies of this work, which all derive from Christian sources, even the recently recovered Arabic version, contain the two passages about Jesus. The authenticity of the Testimonium Flavianum has been disputed since the 17th century, and by the mid 18th century the consensus view was that it was a forgery. This conclusion was questioned in the 20th century and the intellectual controversy will probably never be resolved.
One of the earliest ecclesiastical authorities to condemn the Testimonium Flavianum as a forgery was Bishop Warburton of Gloucester (circa 1770). He described it as “a rank forgery, and a very stupid one, too.” [27] Frank R. Zindler commented that Eusebius simply improved “the germ of the Testimonium (that) had already begun to infect certain Christian-copied versions of Antiquities of the Jews.”
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Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
paarsurrey 