“An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel”

July 24, 2014


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Originally Posted by Flankerl

a face palm

Paarsurrey wrote:

Please see/listen to what Miko Peled son of an ex-Israeli General says:

“An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel”


“Jimmy Carter unveils truth about Israel”

July 24, 2014


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Originally Posted by Quatermass

When will it start to incercede on behalf of the palestin..oh wait it wont because it’s because of silly Judaism that they’re being persecuted in the first place.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Please see/listen to what Jimmy Carter says:

“Jimmy Carter unveils truth about Israel”


No Torah written in the original language of the time of Moses, while Moses was alive

July 24, 2014

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3852760-post112.html : Topic “The Golden Calf”

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Originally Posted by gnostic


“Well, I am not an expert in the bible as well, but I have read the bible more than I have Qur’an.

(I have read the bible several times now, from cover to cover, of both OT and NT, but only read the Qur’an only once, again from cover to cover. But I have lost count the number of times I have read from Genesis to 1 Samuel, because this part of the bible is the most interesting to me.)

My expertise is not in the bible, but in classical literature and classical mythology, and I better than the average in medieval literature (and medieval legends and folklore). The last 6 or 7 years, I have taken up interested in Egyptian, Ugartic/Canaanite and Sumerian/Akkadian/Babylonian literature/mythology, as well as Gnostic and Rabbinic Jewish literature.

But with all of these, literature, I have always relied on English translations. I got some experience from my research into these mythology and literature, and from creating Timeless Myths and Dark Mirrors of Heaven. I have been wanting to start a new website, similar to that of Timeless Myths, but on Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Levant myths, but alas, I don’t have the free time that I used to have.

Of course, my main interests in all these different literature is in the storytelling, not the religion (like customs, rituals) and not the laws (religious laws, codes, ethics, etc).


Of course, but I only know one language – English. I know my limitation, and I respect anyone who read more than one language. The way I tried to resolve this, is to read or research not just one English translations, but several (or more).

When I reading the Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh or Old Testament), I tends to favor the Tanakh from New Jewish Publication Society (NJPS, 1985) or New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) over the King James Version (KJV), because both translations take into consideration the latest Hebrew scholarship and compare the Masoretic Text (MT) against the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS). It is possible (and I must stress “possible”) to get the original context, through reading and comparing different translations. But the best solution would be able to read them in the original languages they were written in.

I don’t know if you can read Hebrew, but here is Hebrew text of Exodus 2; and beside I like you; you know your own limitations, unlike other Muslims here:

If you can read it, then you can compare the quote I had already given in post 86, and see if it is accurate or not. If you can’t read the Hebrew source (Masoretic Text), then no problem.” Unquote

Paarsurrey wrote:

There exists no Torah written in the original language of the time of Moses, while Moses was alive.

The Hebrews adopted the Phoenician script around the 12th century BCE. (Wikipedia)

Rabbinical Judaism calculated a lifespan of Moses corresponding to 1391–1271 BCE;[6] Jerome gives 1592 BCE, and Ussher 1619 BCE as his birth year.[7](Wikipedia)

So there is a gap of for 200-400 years when there was no written Torah.

A pertinent question; did a complete Torah in even Phoenician script around the 12th century BCE ever exist?

My answer is in the negative; and that would be the earliest written Torah.


Science cannot quantify God : (Jesus/Krishna no gods)

July 22, 2014


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Originally Posted by NewGuyOnTheBlock

“God, as described as a being who exists outside of spacetime, can not be quantified through science. Science is a methodology of thinking in observing the natural world. Thus, God, being supernatural, is beyond science.

To qualify for a scientific theory or study, a given object or concept must meet certain criteria. It must be Observable, Testable, Repeatable, Falsifiable and must form a predictive model of reality.

OBSERVABLE: We can’t see God, measure his influences on the world, etc.
TESTABLE: We can’t put God to the test. Gods, as they are described, tend to be fickle; they do what they please, when they please, if they please. Thus, with no apparent cause and effect of the being in question, experimentation to test the concept of God is impossible.
REPEATABLE: We can all agree that Gods, as described in texts, generally don’t stand up and do tricks for man. Gods are too fickle to establish a pattern of repeatablility.
PREDICTIVE MODEL OF REALITY: Gods have, according to the texts, been fickle, as stated above. Thus, even if all the other criteria could be met, “god” still can’t be quantified through science as there is no predictive model of reality set.

God and Science = Oil and Water.” Unquote

Quoting excerpt from the above post:

God, as described as a being who exists outside of spacetime, can not be quantified through science. Science is a methodology of thinking in observing the natural world. Thus, God, being supernatural, is beyond science.
One-True-God (Jesus/Krishna are definitely not god) is only attributive; so you are right He is beyond scientific endeavors to be quantified.Unquote

Paarsurrey wrote:

Yet there is no restriction on Him not to reveal Himself to human being through truthful and perfect human being called the prophets/messengers of the One-True-God; and that He did in almost all regions of the world.

Truthful Religion helps here; science is incapacitated here.


Is Egyptian Abram a different person than Abraham – the patriarch?

July 17, 2014


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Originally Posted by Ingledsva

There is no proof that this has anything to do with the Biblical Abram story, and even if it did, it wouldn’t make the story true.

The Abram story is far earlier (supposedly 2000 BCE or earlier,) then this Egyptian King’s conquests.

The far later Tanakh writers would have know about “traditions,” and “stories,” such as a field called the Field of Abram, – and added them.

The list is places King Shoshenq I raided around 925 BCE.


Paarsurrey wrote:

Please let us know more about the Egyptian Abram with references if any.
Is he a different person than Abraham of Genesis or Jewish Torah?

Thanks and regards

Land of Israel:Did Jacob own any territory to rule?

July 13, 2014


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The treasure of Jacob (titled Israel) was spiritual wealth; he owned no territory to rule or to be inherited by his off-spring after his death.
Did he?
There is/was therefore no land to be called Land of Israel.

Your thought please.



Originally Posted by Marcialou

Is this the point that you are trying to make by initiating this discussion? It would be helpful if you could expand upon your statement so we can understand your position better.

Paarsurrey wrote:

We are just discussing the principled positions.

Jacob’s treasure/possessions/belonging and status consists of ethical/moral/spiritual; he left no legacy of worldly possessions.

The same could be said of Isaac and Abraham.

The legacy of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was only ethical, moral and spiritual. Their worldly legacy was not much and could be ascertained from Genesis 15:18, Genesis 23:1-20 and Genesis 33:18-20.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob definitely owned no territory to rule.

If they had then please correct me.



by Lambert Dolphin

The legacy of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was only ethical, moral and spiritual; their worldly legacy was not much and could be summarized as below from Genesis:

1. Although God promised Abraham that all the land he walked over during his life time would be given to him and to his descendants forever by Yahweh (Genesis 15:18), by the end of his life he owned only one small field at Hebron. This transaction is recorded for us in Genesis 23.
2. “After this, Abraham buried Sarah his wife in the cave of the field of Macpelah east of Mamre (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan. The field and the cave that is in it were made over to Abraham as a possession for a burying place by the Hittites.” Genesis 23:1-20
3. While Hebron lies about 30 kilometers south of Jerusalem, the next recorded land purchase was made by Jacob at Shechem, (Nablus) 50 kilometers to the north of Jerusalem in Samaria at the foot of Mt. Gerizim and Mt. Ebal:

“And Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem, which is in the land of Canaan, on his way from Paddan-aram; and he camped before the city. And from the sons of Hamor, Shechem’s father, he bought for a hundred pieces of money (note 3) the piece of land on which he had pitched his tent. There he erected an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel.” (Genesis 33:18-20)


Why Jews are Called Jews?

July 12, 2014


Please access the above link to know the context of discussion.

Why Jews are Called Jews

Ben Masada the Executive Member of the above site has stated that the
reason as to why Jews are called Jews is that they come from the Tribe of Judah who as per his statement is all based on God’s promise to David that his Tribe (of Judah) would remain as a lamp in Jerusalem forever. (I Kings 11:36).

Paarsurrey wrote:

Was not Judah involved in the conspiracy to sell Joseph as a slave?



Paarsurrey wrote:

Morally it is wrong to say that Abraham was a Jew or Jewish.





The Hebrew name for Judah, Yehudah (יהודה), literally “thanksgiving” or “praise,” is the noun form of the root Y-D-H (ידה), “to thank” or “to praise.”[2] His birth is recorded at Gen. 29:35; upon his birth, Leah exclaims, “This time I will praise the Lord,” with the Hebrew word for “I will praise,” ‘odeh (אודה) sharing the same root asYehudah.
Biblical references[edit]

Judah is the fourth son of the patriarch Jacob and his first wife, Leah: his full brothers are Reuben, Simeon and Levi (all older), and Issachar and Zebulun (younger), and he has six half-brothers.

Following his birth, Judah’s next appearance is in Gen 37, when he and his brothers cast Joseph into a pit out of jealousy after Joseph approaches them while they are working in the field flaunting a coat of many colors. It is Judah who spots a caravan of Ishmaelites coming towards on the way to Egypt and suggests that Joseph be sold to the Ishmaelites rather than killed. (Gen. 37:26-28, “What profit is it if we slay our brother and conceal his blood? … Let not our hand be upon him, for he is our brother, our flesh.”)

Judah marries the daughter of Shua, a Canaanite. Genesis chapter 38 Judah and his wife have three children, Er, Onan, and Shelah. Er marries Tamar, but God kills him because he “was wicked in the sight of the Lord” (Gen. 38:7). Tamar becomes Onan’s wife in accordance with custom, but he too is killed after he refuses to father children for his older brother’s childless widow, and spills his seed instead.[3] Although Tamar should have married Shelah, the remaining brother, Judah did not consent, and in response Tamar deceives Judah into having intercourse with her by pretending to be a prostitute. When Judah discovers that Tamar is pregnant he prepares to have her killed, but recants and confesses when he finds out that he is the father (Gen. 38:24-26).[4]

Meanwhile, Joseph rises to a position of power in Egypt. Twenty years after being betrayed, he meets his brothers again without them recognizing him. The youngest brother, Benjamin, who has remained in Canaan with Jacob, initially remains in Canaan, so Joseph takes Simeon hostage and insists that the brothers return with Benjamin.[5] Judah offers himself to Jacob as surety for Benjamin’s safety, and manages to persuade Jacob to let them take Benjamin to Egypt. When the brothers return, Joseph tests them by demanding the enslavement of Benjamin.[6] Judah pleads for Benjamin’s life, and Joseph reveals his true identity.[7]


Does G-d provide its wisdom in Torah?

July 8, 2014


Please access the above link to know the context of the post and to join discussion.

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Does G-d provide its wisdom in Torah?

Originally Posted by Levite

I have no idea what this means.

paarsurrey wrote:

It means that since G-d is All-Wise; so His word must be self-explanatory giving the gist of wisdom right in the verse or the context verses or a clear clue where it has been explained. The reader should not be left on the mercy of the clergy to manipulate the text or its meaning at their whims.

Missing of the reason/wisdom part in the Bible indicates that the clergy has done it to exploit the faithful and to have control over them.

Else; Jewish G-d is not All-Wise; one would have to conclude. Sorry to say.

Of course one could differ with me with reasons.


Belief in the One-True-God is the default position

July 8, 2014

Belief in the One-True-God is the default position; when one is off this position or derailed from the right path due to different factors one could become believer in many gods or just an atheist, not believing any gods.


Jesus was a Jew and believed in the one true G-d; he expressed this in a very clear and straightforward terms.

Yet Paul invented Trinity and made Christians believe in it; and later there were some Christian denominations that worshiped Mary also making into four deities.

Later when people in the West realized the wrong concepts of Christianity they altogether denied G-d and started becoming atheists; a counter-reaction of the wrong creeds of Christianity.


Jesus brought no new salvation; not at all.

July 7, 2014


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Originally Posted by The Sum of Awe

“Out of curiosity, why did Jesus save humanity at the time he did and not earlier? Salvation would then have been automatic for those who died before his coming instead of them waiting.

It would have made everything a lot less complicated. No need for laws and practices that were no longer required after him.

Or even better yet, why wasn’t Salvation simply made automatic in the first place?” Unquote

Paarsurrey wrote:

This is a creed invented by Paul, the scribes and the Church;they did it by corrupting teachings of Jesus. Jesus was a Jew and remained as such even when he went to India.

This corruption/alteration has been done by Paul, the scribes and the Church while Jesus and Mary had already traveled out of Judea going to India.
Jesus’ mission was to refresh the core teachings of Moses and to refresh the covenant of Noah, Abraham and Moses (excluding the corruption/changes made by the clergy).

Jesus brought no new salvation; not at all.



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