Posts Tagged ‘text’

Clues hidden under the apparent surface of the text of Bible come to light

March 12, 2014

I have given response to the following comments of my Catholic friend “trueandreasonable”

http://trueandreasonable.co/
https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/christians-should-accept-jesus-core-teachings-of-jesus/#comment-4314

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/christians-should-accept-jesus-core-teachings-of-jesus/#comment-4318

paarsurrey Says:
March 12, 2014 at 12:31 pm | Reply edit

@ trueandreasonable :March 11, 2014 at 11:46 pm
I am pleased to learn that you are Catholic; I always hold them with high esteem.

I will discuss your second passage at first.

It is your blind faith or that is what you have been made to believe by sinful Paul and the Church that innocent Jesus died on the Cross. It is not history as it never happened actually.
Paul invented this creed or myth for a purpose or for his vested interest; may be not for much financial gains but otherwise. I don’t want to start Paul bashing though; yet for the love of innocent Jesus I have to decipher the coded truth.

Those who commit stealing always leave clues by which an intelligent person would locate the stealers. Those who deceive also keep other things unchanged for credulity to the ordinary persons and only change things or fabricate things only the ones which support their purpose.

If one analyzes the events of the Bible, which you know was not written by Jesus; where the accounts of crucifixion of Jesus has been narrated; it is not difficult to find the clues hidden under the apparent surface of the text.
Evidences that Jesus did not die on the Cross but he got miraculously survived always existed but the first person who combined all such material in the form of a small book of about 122 pages titled “Jesus in India” is written by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 the Promised Messiah.

The main points of the book “Jesus in India” are given below:

1. Jesus did not die on the Cross; he survived a cursed death on it.
2. Jesus was treated for his injuries inflicted on him on the Cross in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea.
3. When Jesus’ injuries on the Cross were healed to the extent he could make a journey; he came out of the tomb and he met his disciples secretly to tell them that he survived and is the same person with the same body he had before he was put on the Cross.
4. Then he went to Galilee; he did not and could not ascend to heavens; instead he secretly going up the hill went towards India; along with his mother Mary.
5. Jesus traveled to India in search of and to meet the ten lost tribes of house of Israel who were settled in different parts of India.
6. The book provided the root map of Jesus travel to India.
7. Jesus visited different part of India and ultimately settled in Kashmir, India.
8. He died a natural and physical death in India; and his grave is still found at Mohalla Khanyar, Srinagar, Kashmir, India.
9. Jesus is not to come again literally and physically and his symbolic Second Coming has been fulfilled in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908.

I give below the headings of the chapters of the book just for introduction of the contents of the same.

Chapter 1
• Evidence from the Gospels
Chapter 2
• Evidence from the Quran and Authentic traditions
Chapter 3
• Evidence derived from Medical Literature
• List of Books mentioning Marham-i-Isa (ointment of Jesus), and that the Ointment was Prepared for Jesus’ Wounds
Chapter 4
• Evidence from Historical Records
Section 1:
• Evidence from Islamic literature concerning Jesus’ journeys
• Probable Route Map of Jesus’ Journey to India
Section 2:
• Evidence from Buddhist Records
Section 3:
• Evidence from Historical Writings which Show that Jesus’ Journey to the Punjab and Neighbouring Territories was Inevitable
• List of 24 Tribes of Abdalees
Appendix

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_India_(book)

The book is available online in PDF format freely; the link given below.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Jesus-in-India.pdf

Thanks

Quran’s real charm is its profound system of meaning conveyed in its message

May 9, 2013

I give here  posts written by me for my favourite discussion forum on the thread <Is Islam a universal religion>: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/147598-islam-universal-religion-13.html

#127

Quran does not mention it; that could be only opinions of those who claim it.

It is true that Quran if read in the Arabic language a little loudly in a manner that it does not disturb others has its own spell-bound charm; that cannot be denied.

Nevertheless; its real charm is its profound system of meaning conveyed in its message; one could benefit from, in any language.

I have personal experience of this; people borrow questions from unfriendly websites; but when referred to Quran, for the text and context, the questions become irrelevant.

One may just try it.

The focus of praying in Arabic is for preservation of the text; along-with the Arabic one could silently make a translation in one’s own language, it is not forbidden.

It is emphasized that one should also pray in one’s own mother-tongue for personal prays (supplications) in sajda (Prostration) or ruku (bowing down following the recitation of the Quran in the standing position while praying); that is most appreciated. The stress is that one’s spirit should move along the body.

For the “holy language” or that other languages are “unholy”; citation from Quran may please be given.

I may add here that all translations, in fact, are commentaries as one could translate only to the extent one understands; if one does not understand fully one’s translation would be defective to that extent.

#130 Translations of Quran are not the real word of God; that is factual and reasonable; that does not mean that Quran should not be translated for understanding it.

Paarsurrey says:

One may like to comment there in the forum or here in this blog, my pleasure.

Quran presents Jesus as a straightforward man

November 16, 2009

Paarsurrey wrote:

“Quran presents Jesus as a straightforward man; who would say things in an unequivocal terms except when he was talking in parables or allegoric words, which is a form of expressions of the languages all over the world; which is understandable from the clues in the text; it is weird to take such parables as of fact or in real terms.”

Eddie:

Hi Paarsurrey, I am glad to find you replied to my comment.

I am not a student of the Quran, but I have read a little. I have no argument per se with what you write above. I agree that parables are allegorical writings and the meanings of the parables are contained within the text itself. We are not to put “our” words in Jesus’ mouth. So, in essence we are in agreement here.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend Eddie

I am really happy to receive your response. Quran is a very small book as compared to the Bible. So you may start reading it. It is an interesting read. The Quran presents accounts of Jesus in a very straightforward manner. I will like to quote here some verses from a chapter of Quran:

[5:117] And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’”, he will answer, “Holy art Thou. I could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things.
[5:118] “I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me — ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them; and Thou art Witness over all things.
[5:119] “If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou surely art the Mighty, the Wise.”
[5:120] Allah will say, ‘This is a day when only the truthful shall profit by their truthfulness. For them are Gardens beneath which streams flow; therein shall they abide for ever. Allah is well pleased with them, and they are well pleased with Him; that indeed is the great triumph.’
[5:121] To Allah belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and whatever is in them; and He has power over all things.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=5&verse=116

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Bible presents Jesus as a confused man

November 11, 2009

Eddie wrote:

“Bible presents Jesus as a confused man…” perhaps you could give an example of such confusion.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friend Eddie,

Quran presents Jesus as a straightforward man; who would say things in an unequivocal terms except when he was talking in parables or allegoric words, which is a form of expressions of the languages all over the world; which is understandable from the clues in the text; it is weird to take such parables as of fact or in real terms.

Jesus was a man – a prefect man like so many others in all the nations and all the regions of the world; and as such he was loved one of the Creator- God Allah YHWH that is why he might have sometimes expressed himself it in terms of son of God, if he ever said like that. He was also in perfect image of the Creator, like so many others in all the nations and all the regions of the world, which the simple minded deserting, unfaithful and superstitious disciples mistook as if he was god.

Jesus also mentioned himself as son of Adam or Son of Man; which only meant that Jesus approved that Adam and Eve were innocent ; whatever mistake they had committed, they had repented it and asked forgiveness from the Creator –God Allah YHWH, and they were forgiven. Jesus so much appreciated it he took Adam as his father.

Jesus abhors all such claims of being son of god or god or part of any trinity. These are only wrong concepts of the cunning Paul and the sinful and deserting disciples whom Jesus never trusted, in my opinion.

The confusion is not in Jesus but in the writings of the sinful scribes and cunning Paul; they projected him like a confused person, never telling things in straightforward manner.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Quran is the most rational and natural collection of Revelation; it recorded events and ‎‎instructions from God Allah YHWH as to what to do in a situation in brevity

July 11, 2009

http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/07/11/muhammad-drove-out-the-‎jews-of-medina-for-attacking-killing-muslims/‎

‎2. paarsurrey Says:
July 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am

Hi friends

Please quote a verse from Quran with the usual context of five preceding and five ‎‎follwing verses where such and incident is mentioned. Muhammad never did any ‎‎important act unless he received instructions from God Allah YHWH. In that sense ‎‎Quran is the most rational and natural collection of Revelation; it recorded event and ‎‎instructions from God Allah YHWH as to what to do in a situation in brevity, yet with ‎‎clarity together with sound reasons that appeal the conscience and phsyche of civilised ‎‎man of all ages under the sun.‎
All human beings are but a family; love for all, hatred for none.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

One part of Quran supports and explains other parts of the Quran; and hence it enjoys an ‎inbuilt system, which cannot be disturbed by anybody‎

July 10, 2009

‎38. jonc Says:
July 8th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

Back to the Koran itself:

All the ’stories’ about the compilation and memorization of the Koran are either ‎speculative (in the case of the book you so often quote) or dependant on Hadith that ‎were not compiled until ~200+ years after Mo’s death.‎

41. paarsurrey Says:
July 10th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

I don’t agree with you. Quran is not dependant on Hadith. I give here verses from ‎Quran describing the form Quran was to be descended and protected:‎

‏75:17] لَا تُحَرِّكْ بِهٖ لِسَانَكَ لِتَعْجَلَ بِهٖؕ‏ ‏
‎[75:17] Move not thy tongue with this revelation that thou mayest hasten to preserve ‎it. ‎
‏[75:17] تُو اس کی قراءت کے وقت اپنی زبان کو اس لئے تیز حرکت نہ دے کہ تُو اسے جلد جلد یاد ‏کرے۔ ‏

‏[75:18] اِنَّ عَلَيْنَا جَمْعَهٗ وَقُرْاٰنَهٗۚ ۖ‏ ‏
‎[75:18] Surely upon Us rests its collection and its recital. ‎
‏[75:18] یقیناً اس کا جمع کرنا اور اس کی تلاوت ہماری ذمہ داری ہے۔ ‏

‏[75:19] فَاِذَا قَرَاْنٰهُ فَاتَّبِعْ قُرْاٰنَهٗ‌ۚ‏ ‏
‎[75:19] So when We recite it, then follow thou its recital. ‎
‏[75:19] پس جب ہم اُسے پڑھ چکیں تو تُو اس کی قراءت کی پیروی کر۔ ‏

‏[75:20] ثُمَّ اِنَّ عَلَيْنَا بَيَانَهٗؕ‏ ‏
‎[75:20] Then upon Us rests the expounding thereof. ‎
‏[75:20] پھر یقیناً اُس کا واضح بیان بھی ہمارے ہی ذمہ ہے۔ ‏

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=75&verse=20

It is evident from the above verses that the Creator God Allah YHWH that Muhammad ‎was not even allowed to make a non-natural effort to memorize Quran. It was to be very ‎naturally revealed on Muhammad and it was to be secured by the Creator God Allah ‎YHWH in the form He best designed for its verbal text and also for its meaning; as God ‎Allah YHWH was its author, and not Muhammad.

Muslim had been and are very sensitive on the issue of the verbal text of Quran; so ‎nobody could ever alter it, not even a Caliph or whatever the status of such a person; ‎from amongst the Muslims or the non-Muslims. Muslims the world over always rejected ‎such moves in the past and would always reject such moves even now and the future.

One part of Quran supports and explains other parts of the Quran; and hence it enjoys an ‎inbuilt system, which cannot be disturbed by anybody; not even a Hadith could change ‎the text of Quran; such a Hadith would be interpreted for meanings that support Quran or ‎such a Hadith would be rejected altogether.‎
Quran is the first and the foremost source of guidance for the Muslims and would remain ‎as such.

All humans are but a family; love for all, hatred for none.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

“One more little question; did Joseph Smith believe that Jesus was God?”Ah, this little question is a really big question

June 7, 2009

Markparker1 says:

“One more little question; did Joseph Smith believe that Jesus was God?”

Ah, this little question is a really big question.

Firstly we do not believe in the Trinity as adopted by Christian sects around the 4th century after Christ.

Paarsurrey says:

Well, Jesus was an upright person; he neither believed in Trinity nor in Duality. Jesus’ belief was as simple as of Moses, Abraham, Noah and Jonah; as they were with the same Message from God Allah YHWH.

It becomes clealr to me that Joseph Smith was neither visited by God Allah YHWH nor by Jesus. The conclusion drwan by the Mormons are neither depicted in the text of the first vision of Joseph Smith, nor are in confirmity with the context of the beliefs of Moses, Abraham, Noah, Jonah and Jesus and other Prophest of the Old Testament.

Paul and Joseph Smith seem to be the same complicated persons; had got nothing to do with Jesus or God Allah YHWH; hence their destiny was similar; they were killed in terms of Deuteronmy; as they were never legitimately appointed by by God Allah YHWH in the first place.

I don’t mind if somebody wants to covert me to his faith; this is his right, which he should establish rightly.

One of our friends, Maaark, who is also an ex-LDS person has aloso commented in this connection, you may if you like reply his understandings in the matter.

I love Jesus and Mary as depicted in Quran; not the ones described by Paul or Joseph Smith.

Please don’t mind; you are a friend. I don’t have anything against you or the Mormon Christians, we are just discussing the things in search of truth and comparing our notes. I respect your faith and you have a right to defend your faith; which please continue doing boldly. There is no intention to malign the Mormon Christians, a good people.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Cindyinsd! There is no verse in Quran supported by the usual context to maintain your statement “The Quran claims that the Bible is the barometer of truth”

May 30, 2009

Cindyinsd says:

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/what-is-the-aim-of-religion/#comments
2.) The Quran claims that the Bible is the barometer of truth.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend cindyinsd

Please quote the text of the verse with the usual context in which Quran claims that the Bible is the barometer of truth.

As already explained to you the usual context of a verse consists of five preceding and five following verses.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Moses and his mother as described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

“Quran itself affirms that if its words disagree with ‘the Book,’ then Quran is wrong” – cindyinsd

May 24, 2009

cindyinsd says:

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/what-is-the-aim-of-religion/#comments

Furthermore, the Quran itself affirms that if its words disagree with “the Book,” then the Quran is wrong. Muhammad himself sets the Bible up as the standard for comparison.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend cindyinsd

Please quote the text from Quran with the usual context in support of your argument. The usual context of a verse consists of five preceding and five following verses.

I don’t think Quran would mean that. If Quran would have said that then all Muslims would have left Islam. I think you have misunderstood some verse.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Bible is not alright, it does not provide what was revealed on Jesus

May 7, 2009

Peacewithinreach says:

Actually, I find the Bible to be right on, even for life today.

Paarsurrey says:
Hi friend peacewithinreach

God Allah YHWH is an authority being the Creator of the Universe; we have to obey whatever He says; but he is All-Wisdom also and he has bestowed us human beings with wisdom and reasoning also which He has not given so much to other of his creatures.

This is an age of information and reasoning; it is well suited to the present era that whatever is commanded is also proved with rational and logical.

A convinced person heart and soul with reasons and rationality find it easier to become an obedient servant and submitter to God.

Bible is not alright, it does not provide what was revealed on Jesus, it provides what Paul thought of that is why it lacks straightforward claims/assertion and also reason thereof .

Bible is therefore an outmoded book and does not meet the temporal, moral and spiritual needs of the era. It only builds a blind faith; as Paul lost/impaired his eyesight when he made up the vision that he had seen Jesus.

One does not find the teachings of this book rationally and logically true; neither one could ever find them in this book. The nature and psyche of the Americans; peoples in the West and the East therefore reject this book and have resorted to accepting Atheism in large numbers.

The Catholics and Protestants are good and intelligent persons; they should realize the tricks, bluffs and cunningness of Paul and accept the Jesus and Mary of Quran.

Quran presents claims and reasons in the text and the context and fulfils the needs of the era. Quran presents the bright and shining teachings of Jesus and Mary and establishes their respect, honor and love in the hearts of the people most affectively.

If America is to be saved; it has to accept the truthful Jesus of Quran.

I respect your religion; but this is what I believe sincerely and frankly.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim