Posts Tagged ‘Shoghí Effendí’

instead of Abdul Baha , Shoghi Effendi and the UHJ following Bahaullah; Bahaullah has to follow them

May 30, 2019

 

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/my-current-version-of-hinduism.221194/#post-6123270

#5paarsurrey

I understand Bahaullah did not claim in straightforward manner anything of the sort in his core book Kitab-i-Iqan or “Book of Certitude”, please.

Regards

 

Shoghi Effendi wrongly translates Iqan

May 16, 2019

Religious Forums

#30paarsurrey

I am now at page 53 of Kitab-i-Iqan-Farsi.

At passage # 76 is written:

“Knowledge is the most grievous veil between man and his Creator.”

There are no words in Farsi-Iqan which have been translated by Shoghi Effendi as “between man and his Creator.
Further, “Knowledge is the most grievous veil” is neither a verse of Quran nor it is Hadith. Right, please?

Regards

Bahaullah: Gawhar Khanum

May 2, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/bahaullah-gawhar-khanum.220335/

#1 paarsurrey

Bahaullah got married with his third wife, Gawhar Khanum:

  1. who did solemnize this marriage?
  2. and on what tradition?
  3. It sure happened in the post Iqan period.

It is important to ascertain the religion Bahaullah himself followed till then.

Thread open to everybody believing in a religion or no-religion.

Regards

_______________
#119

#9 paarsurrey

Please provide a reference from Bab instructing his followers to have two wives only.
Thanks for the input.

Regards

#16  paarsurrey

“you’ve (the Bahaullah’s followers friends here) only studied what your Bahāʾī leaders have allowed to be translated and distributed to the masses. Are you not fluent in Arabic or Persian?”

While I study Iqan:

  1. the way Shoghi Effendi has indulged with translation of some Quranic verses,
  2. and he has given hardly any viable references of many Hadith/tradition mentioned by Bahaullah
  3. and some friends have given passages from Gleanings, without Shoghi Effendi giving reference of the original books in Farsi and or Arabic, and when asked about them he stated inability to provide them with the pretext that he had forgotten/does not remember from which original book he had translated them .

I also reached the conclusion/apprehension that Shoghi Effendi developed the agenda only to give access to the English speaking followers that suited to his own vested whims.
So the English speaking converts only have half truths.
No surprise if a follower is not aware of the teaching of Bab, whom Bahaullah followed, during his 50 years as a convert!
Right, please?

Regards

Was Bahaullah a “Bahai”, please? (3)

April 22, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/was-bahaullah-a-bahai-please.220052/page-2#post-6075959

Aupmanyav said: 

#35 

Last edited:

Please elaborate with references. It is interesting. While reading Iqan, the way Shoghí Effendi dealt with the translation of Iqan, and his excessive use of inverted commas and capitalization of the letters of words or decaptilization of them, not providing references of many traditions and also some verses of Quran and the most important of all not providing the Arabic text of the verses of Quran and giving wrong translations at some places etc, suggested that the “guardian” Shoghí Effendí was a Paul to Bahaullah. May be Abdul Baha was also as one has suggested, but I have not yet read anything from him, please.

Regards

Who are the well-grounded in knowledge people of Quran?

April 16, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/bahaullah-has-revealed.219327/page-4#post-6068801

#74 paarsurrey, 

A friend on forum wrote: 

  1. Bahaullah did not claim in express,clear and unequivocal manner in Kitab-i-Iqan that he was a messenger/prophet of G-d. Did he, please? If yes, kindly quote from Kitab-i-Iqan in this connection, please.
  2. The well grounded people are those:
    • who have studied/pondered over Quran intently from the context verses
    • as well as from other places in Quran
    • and not from elsewhere.

Sorry, we cannot accept hegemony of Bahaullah and or Shoghi Effendi* on Quran, unreasonably and haphazardly, please.

Regards

_____________
*Shoghí Effendí did not quote the Quranic text in Arabic, he quoted the translation of Quran verses sometimes, if not most of the times, changing the Rodwell’s translation he opted, capitalizing the initial letters of the words or uncapitalizing them against the norms.

Shoghí Effendí erred?

April 15, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/bahaullah-has-revealed.219327/page-4#post-6067626

A Bahai friend said: 

#66 paarsurrey wrote.

I observe that a verse of Quran has been incorrectly translated by Shoghí Effendí:

Qur’án 55:5. [ Back To Reference] incorrect translation done in Iqan.

Even as He saith : “Verily, the sun and the moon are both condemned to the torment of infernal fire.”24
Arabic Text of the verse is:
اَلشَّمۡسُ وَ الۡقَمَرُ بِحُسۡبَانٍ
Correct translations:
The sun and the moon run their courses according to a fixed reckoning.

Edward Henry Palmer:
The sun and the moon have their appointed time;
George Sale
The sun and the moon run their courses according to a certain rule:
John Medows Rodwell
The Sun and the Moon have each their times,
N J Dawood (2014)
The sun and the moon pursue their ordered course.
ar-Rahman 55:5

This needs to be corrected, please.
Regards

 

The friend on the forum commented thus: 

#70 paarsurrey replied:

“Arabic word “Husbán,” which means Hell”

  1. Please quote from a reputed Arabic lexicon for “Husban” meaning hell.
  2. IslamAwakened is a site which gives 50+ translations of Quran rendered by Shia/Sunni/Non-Muslim ect. scholars, none of them agrees with the translation of “Husban” as Hell.
  3. When Shoghi Effindi was following Rodwell translation, then why leave it ?

Regards

 

#72paarsurrey replied thus: 

Please quote from a renowned Lexicon for the meaning of the word “Husban” and its usage from Arabic poetry and or prose.

It is Quran that judges* every tradition, Quran is not judged by any tradition whether Sunni or Shia or whatever etc.

Regards
_____________
*AYAH at-Tariq 86:13
Arabic[​IMG] إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلٌ فَصْلٌ [​IMG]
Transliteration[​IMG] Innahu laqawlun faslun [​IMG]
Transliteration-2 innahu laqawlun faṣlun [​IMG]
Literal
(Word by Word) Indeed, it (is) surely a Word decisive,
Non-Muslim and/or Orientalist works
Arthur John Arberry[​IMG] surely it is a decisive word; [​IMG]
Edward Henry Palmer[​IMG] Verily, it is indeed a distinguishing speech, [​IMG]
George Sale[​IMG] Verily this is a discourse distinguishing good from evil; [​IMG]
John Medows Rodwell[​IMG] That this Koran is a discriminating discourse, [​IMG]
N J Dawood (2014) this¹ is a discerning utterance,
at-Tariq 86:13

*Quran 7:186
فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَهُ يُؤْمِنُونَ
Literal
(Word by Word) So in what statement/story/hadith after this will they believe?

John Medows Rodwell[​IMG] And in what other book will they believe who reject the Koran?
al-A`raf 7:185

Shoghi Effendi played with the translation of Quran by Rodwell

April 8, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/bahaullah-has-revealed.219327/page-3#post-6045446

 

Post #53 paarsurrey , 

I find that Shoghi Effendi translated Iqan, and also used translation of Quran by Rodwell, with his own agenda in mind and against the norms of the translation. For instance

Quran verse 3:7 rendered by Rodwell:

“He it is who hath sent down to thee “the Book.” Some of its signs are of themselves perspicuous;-these are the basis4 of the Book-and others are figurative. But they whose hearts are given to err, follow its figures, craving discord, craving an interpretation; yet none knoweth its interpretation but God. And the stable in knowledge say, “We believe in it: it is all from our Lord.” But none will bear this in mind, save men endued with understanding.”

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2800/pg2800-images.html
Shoghi Effendi disfigured it in Iqan thus:

“None knoweth the interpretation thereof but God and they that are well-grounded in knowledge.” 13
Bahá’í Reference Library – The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 201-220
Again:

“None knoweth the meaning thereof except God and them that are well-grounded in knowledge.” 15
Bahá’í Reference Library – The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41
I don’t know, why did Shoghi Effendi play with the translation of Rodwell, changing it here and there?

Anybody, please.

Regards