Posts Tagged ‘Second Coming-not literal or physical’

“Breaking the Cross”- means rectifying wrong creeds of Christianity with sound arguments

March 4, 2021

Please view paarsurrey’s post #158 on RF.

Jesus: The Misunderstood Messiah

paarsurrey wrote :vide Post #158 : < (Please click on the post # to get right into the discussion to join in , please)

Jesus s/o Mary is the Messiah alright but the one elevated by sinful Paul:

  1. as “son of god”
  2. and then god
  3. and then god in flesh

is , I underhand, for sure a mythical Messiah and not the real one, and this wrong concept of Pauline-Christianity has become a breeding ground of Atheism (and its Western Sects), please. Right?
It is for this that Jesus’ and or Messiah’s Second Coming 1835-1908 has taken place to rectify all such wrong concepts of Cross with the “breaking of the Cross”, which is the basis of all Pauline-Christianity creeds, I figure, please. Right?

Regards

OOO

One will, perhaps, love to read the following:

“Holy War”: Is it Armageddon? with its ” Peaceful Version”! 1

“Holy War”: Is it Armegiddon / Armageddon? – with its “Peaceful Version”! 1 | paarsurrey (wordpress.com)

One will be taken aback to note that Armegiddon/Armageddon is nothing like as one would have imagined or known so far. It is not to be fought with any physical and destructive weaponry and or the lethal arsenal of the day. It is peaceful and in fact, I understand, it has already started and it is sown like a seed!

It was a debate between the Pauline-Christianity (represented by Mr. Abdullah Atham) and the Second Coming 1835-1908 , that took place in Urdu language and was published then by the name “Jang-e-Muqaddas” in 1893 ( 22 May 1893 to 5 June 1893) in the then British India and has been recently translated and published in English by the name “The Holy War”:

The Holy War — A DEBATE BETWEEN ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY — Jang-e-Muqaddas (alislam.org)

Right?

From: a peaceful Ahmadiyya Muslim

OOO 

These are the days of Armageddon – the final battle between good and evil –The peaceful Version! 3 

Has Armageddon already started with the advent of Second Coming 1835-1908 ?– The peaceful Version! 2

The ultimate truth about Jesus

July 20, 2008

Tim Wilson Says:

If Jesus did not die on the cross you and I are destined for hell. Whatever laws we try to follow, whether it be the Jewish Torah or the 5 Pillars, we will miss the mark some time. If we cannot keep these laws how can a holy God stand us? He cannot. He will not reward those who do evil.

http://christcentred.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/having-time-for-caring/

Paarsurrey comments:

Hi Tim Wilson!

I don’t agree with you. Going to heaven or hell of human beings does not have anything to do with Cross or Jesus or with destiny. This is not a concept which Jesus had taught; this is a wrong concept propounded by Paul at Rome without anything from GodAllahYHWH; and in my opinion Paul would suffer for misleading the Christians and hence may go to hell for propogating this evil concept.
Jesus did not die on Cross as GodAllahYHWH saved his life. There is no witness and there could be none as a witness of Jesus dying on Cross; only a conjecture.
Matthew 26:56
But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
So, if Matthew is correct, then there was no Christian eyewitness of the event of crucifixion.

The first and primary source on “Jesus was not killed on Cross” – but Jesus later died naturally in Kashmir, in India is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908.

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Buddha/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself a complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross.

Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)

7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

St. Paul the Apostle spoke about Jesus killing on Cross in 1 Cor 15:
[17] If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
[18] Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. Unquote
Now, in my opinion, as you know that Jesus was not killed on Cross, so even according to Paul, Catholic viewpoint is not proved; needs to be revised.

So, there was none among the Jesus’ twelve apostles present on the scene of Crucifixion, to qualify as an eye witness later. I think the matter is clear now

Ahmadi Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus is a messenger from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God’s words to his people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and Messengers of God. Ahmadi Muslims also believe that though Jesus was put on Cross but those who put him on the Cross with the intention of killing him on it never succeeded in their intention, neither Jesus ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross. The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died a natural and peaceful death in Kashmir

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
E-mail: whitemunara@yahoo.com

Jesus and the adulterous Jews

July 19, 2008

Question at “Yahoo Answers”:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AobxNBzY8e2LAdI7foc_284jzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20080718124127AANrhsL

If Jesus ever shows up, who will kill him?

Paarsurrey answers:

Hi

In Jesus’ first coming the adulterous Jews did not accept him; they were waiting for a warrior MessiahChrist who could return the worldy kingdom lost in the past of King David and after that they were leading a miserable life. Jesus was a simple and poor man; he did not match the imaginary warrior hero of the Jews who could return them the lost kingdom of David and his rule. Jesus scolded them of their concepts as the men who come from the heaven (never in literal or physical sense) have nothing to do with the worldly or material wealth. Such persons are spiritual reformers and they are selected by GodAllahYHWH for the social and spiritual uplift of a people. The Clergy saw in Jesus the man who opposed their lofty positions in the society and who scolded them for keeping the common man as downtrodden. Naturally the clergy could not like him, so they wanted to kill him as a false prophet rather than to accept him. That was their charge against Jesus.

God helped Jesus and the Jews could not kill him on the cross against all odds; this was the punishment for a false prophet in the OTBible. God saved his life against all odds and Jesus after the event off crucifixion, went into self exile and spent rest of his life in India among the Lost Tribes of Israel; and he died there a natural and peaceful death and is buried in Mohalla Khanyar, Sirinagar, Kashmir in India. This needs research and should not be a problem in this era.

Jesus could not be killed in his first coming. The Second Coming is not literal or physical. It has taken place in the form of the Promised Messiah 1835-1908, metaphorically. Many Muslims,Christians and Hindus etc, tried to kill him but they could not succeed.

Jesus in his second coming did show up but nobody could kill him, so it is not a valid question; now the valid question is how the world is going to accept him and spread his peaceful teachings which the world so much needs. One cannot kill him now; only one can accept him, support him and serve his mission from GodAllahYHWH.

I respect your viewpoint though mine is different from yours.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Source(s):

“Jesus in India” by the Promised Messiah 1835-1908:
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jes&#8230;

Ahmadiyya under guidance of Promised Messiah 1835-1908 Says:

Jesus had announced that his “wicked and adulterous” generation would be given no sign except the sign of the prophet Jonas.( Matthew 16: 4.). It is worth remembering that Jonas entered the belly of the whale alive, remained there alive, though unconscious, and emerged there from alive. So was Jesus taken down from the cross alive though unconscious, he remained in the sepulchre alive and emerged therefrom alive. Had he died upon the cross, there would have been no resemblance between his case and that of the Prophet Jonas, unless one were also to believe that Jonas too had died in the belly of the whale and had come back to life after he emerged there from, a theory which would scarcely be acceptable to the Church.( Jonah Chapter 2).
http://www.alislam.org/library/jesusinkashmir.html

The viewers are free to form their own opinions and search for truth and accept it wherever they find it.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jews, Christians and Muslims should not miss the bus

July 16, 2008

http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/another-false-messiah-ex-traffic-cop-says-hes-jesus/#comment-263

Chrystal Says:
July 15, 2008
Another False Messiah – Ex-Traffic Cop Says He’s Jesus
We’ve heard of these false messiahs many times, but this man has a strong following. According to this news article, five thousand people have left their homes and families and have moved to a commune to join this man.
This commune in Siberia is one of the world’s largest. Not only does this antichrist have five thousand who have moved to the commune, but he has ten thousand followers world wide.

Vissarion, the false messiah, and those of his commune who adore him.
Deep in the heart of Siberia’s birch forests lies one of the largest and most remote religious communes of the planet. More than 5,000 people have left their families and their homes to move here and join the Church of the Last Testament, which has more than 10,000 followers worldwide. The church centers on one man. He is known simply as Vissarion, meaning “he who gives new life,” or simply as the teacher, and he claims that he is Jesus Christ. Source.
To those of us who are grounded in the Word…and even to those who aren’t…this stands out as being clear satanic deception. That is the only way he could deceive so many. The secular world would call these people looney. But, the Word of God has this to say about it:
1 John 2:18:
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Matthew 24:23-25:
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.

Paarsurrey Says:
Hi

Those who have not accepted Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the truthful Promised Messiah 1835-1908, at least have a chance to see a false one to accept, in my opinion.

Jesus neither died a cursed death on Cross nor he ascended on to the skies; so he cannot come in physical and literal terms. This is a notion misunderstood though Jesus had explained it when he said John the Baptist is Elijah who was supposed to come from the heaven as he had ascended to it alongwith his chariot and horses. Jesus told them in a wise way that it was metaphoric; otherwise nobody ascends to the skies nor descends from it. Those who don’t accept Jesus’ explanation are in my opinion followers of Paul not of Jesus. They would wait till doomsday and won’t see anyone descending from the heaven. Their destiny would be like that of Jews who are still waiting and wailing for a warrior JesusChristMessiahMoshiach, in my opinion, but nobody would come. They have just missed the bus.

I love Jesus and Muhammad.

This is my opinion. Kindly visit my blog for a peaceful discussion. Differing opinions are also welcome.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Tribulation on Cross could not break Jesus will; Jesus survived death on Cross

July 14, 2008

http://wetfoot.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/life-and-death/#comment-9

wtb1 said 1 day ago:

Thank you for your comments. I do have to respectfully disagree with you in the fact of the death of Jesus. The Romans had perfected the art of killing and the soldiers at that time were very efficient. I am sure they had seen death many times and the executioners I am sure had seen it on a very regular basis.

Let us remember what all Jesus went through on the day of his death. He had been up all night in mock trial after mock trial. He had been beaten and mocked. He under went a scourging of 39 lashes with a whip. This was no bull whip. The whip used by the Romans had 7 to 9 “tails”. On the end of each tail was a metal weight. The length of each “tail” was studded with bits of metal and bone.
When a person was hit with the scourge, the bits of metal and bone would sink in to the flesh of the one being scourged and the metal weights would slam into the body creating bruising and possibly broken ribs. As the whip was pulled free of the prisoner, the bits of metal and flesh would tear away pieces of flesh and meat. Lacerations down to the bone could occur. Now image 39 of those strikes onto the back and sides of one man.

After the scourging His (Jesus) back would have been a bloody mass of torn muscle and skin. Blood loss would have been substantial. Then a cloak of purple was placed to cover the bloody mess of His back. He was then made to carry the cross member his hands (wrists more than likely) would have been nailed to through Jerusalem and to the site of the execution. At this point in time exhaustion and blood loss would be taking its toll on anyone.
At the site of Calvary, the robe was ripped off His back reopening the wounds from the scourging. Crucifixion was deliberately designed to kill with the utmost in suffering. Nails (think of a railrod spike about 9 inches long) triangular in shape were driven into wrists right below the palms. Another nail driven through the feet at the ankles. Horrendous suffering and pain as the cross was brutally lifted up and dropped into the hole.

Crucifixion killed primarily by asphyxiation. Since a person was hanging from their arms their chest could not expand to draw in air. In order to breath, Jesus would have to bear his full weight on the single nail through His ankles and “stand” to relieve the pressure on His chest by his arms. A breath or two would be taken then the person on the cross would once again hang from his arms. This would go on until the person could stand no more on the nail and eventually could not breath.
This was why the legs were broken to bring about a more speedy death. As the Romans came around inspecting the prisoners that day they broke the legs of the two criminal beside Jesus, but when they got to Jesus they did not (a fulfillment of Old Testament prophesy).

A spear was plunged into his side and went all the way to the heart. “An issue of blood and water” came out of the hole.
To the Romans, there was no doubt as to the death of Jesus. I think that with their experience they would have been able to identify death when it occurred.
I have often heard the swoon theory but because of the facts stated above I have a very hard time believing Jesus simply passed out and revived later in the tomb.


Paarsurrey
says:

Hi

I can understand your viewpoint about Jesus’ tribulations on the Cross. He was an innocent man and should have not been punished by anyone; here I do agree with you but we should not forget that Jesus was a young and sturdy man of 6 feet height and if others hanged on Cross with him did not die, there is every reason to believe that Jesus also must had lived through, in all probability.

What happened to Jesus on that day related to crucifixion, I give hereunder in the words of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908:

Readers should not be under any misconception: the Cross of the Jews was not like the hangman’s noose of to-day from which deliverance alive is nearly impossible, for the Cross of those days had no rope to be put round the neck of the victim, nor was he subjected to a fall from a wooden plank and allowed to keep hanging; rather, he was just put on the Cross, and his hands and feet were nailed to it; and it was quite possible that if, after crucifying a person and driving nails into him, it was decided — in a day or two — to forgive him and spare his life, he was taken down alive before his bones had been broken, the punishment already undergone being deemed sufficient for him.

If it was decided to kill him, he was kept on the Cross at least for three days; water or bread was not allowed to come near him, and he was left in this condition in the sun for three or more days, when his bones were broken and ultimately as a result of this torture he died. But the grace of Almighty God rescued Jesus from this torture which would have ended his life. Reading the gospel with care will show that Jesus (on whom be peace) did not remain on the Cross for three days; he did not have to suffer hunger or thirst for three days; nor were his bones broken. On the other hand, he remained on the Cross only for two hours, and the grace and mercy of God managed to bring about the crucifixion in the latter part of the day, which was a Friday, only a little time before sunset, the next day being the Sabbath, the feast Fasah of the Jews. According to Jewish custom it was unlawful and a punishable crime to let anyone remain on the Cross on the Sabbath day, or during the night previous to it; Jews, like Muslims, observed the lunar calendar, sunset being regarded as beginning the day.

So, on the one hand, there was this circumstance which arose out of earthly causes, and, on the other, Almighty God brought into existence heavenly circumstances, namely, that when it was the sixth hour, there was a severe dust-storm which darkened the earth for three hours.6 This sixth hour was after twelve o’clock, i.e., close to the evening. Now, the Jews were afraid in this utter darkness, lest the night of the Sabbath should overtake them, and lest, having violated the sanctity of the Sabbath, they should deserve to be punished.

Therefore, in all haste they took Jesus and the two thieves off their Crosses. In addition to all this, there was another heavenly cause, namely, that when Pilate presided at his court, his wife sent word to him not to have anything to do with that righteous person (i.e., not to attempt to punish him with death), for, she said, she had had a dream that night, which had troubled her very much.

So, this angel, whom the wife of Pilate saw in her dream, would assure us and all fair-minded people, with certainty, that God had never intended that Jesus should die on the Cross. From the day of the creation of this world, never has it occurred that God should suggest to a person in a dream that a particular thing would happen in a certain way, and still that thing should fail to happen. For example, the gospel of Matthew says that an angel of the Lord came to Joseph in a dream and said, ‘Arise and take the young child and the mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him’.

Now, can anyone say that Jesus could be killed in Egypt? Similarly the dream which the wife of Pilate dreamt was a part of God’s design, and it could never be that this design should fail in its object; and just as the possibility of Jesus being put to death during the Egyptian journey was against a specific promise of God, so here it is unthinkable that the angel of Almighty God should appear to the wife of Pilate and should direct her to say that if Jesus died on the Cross it would not be a happy thing for her, and yet the angel’s appearance should go in vain, and Jesus should be allowed to suffer death on the Cross.

Is there any example of this in the world? None. The pure conscience of all good men, when informed of the dream of Pilate’s wife, will no doubt testify that it was a fact that the purpose of that dream was to lay the foundation for the rescue of Jesus. It is of course open to everybody to deny an out-and-out truth; out of prejudice born of his creed, he may refuse to accept it, but fairness would oblige us to believe that the dream of Pilate’s wife is a piece of weighty evidence in support of Jesus’ escape from the Cross. The first in rank among the gospels, i.e., Matthew, has recorded this evidence.

Although, therefore, the powerful evidence which I shall set out in this book invalidates the divinity of Jesus and the doctrine of Atonement, yet honesty and love of fairness require us not to be partial to a communal or customary creed on a question of fact. From the day of the creation of man up till to-day the limited intellect of man has invested a thousand things with Divinity and Godhead, so much so that even cats and snakes have been worshipped; nevertheless wise people, through heaven’s help, have continued to be saved from the evil of such polytheistic beliefs.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html
Kindly read the above book to catch the correct scenario of crucifixion.

I respect your faith.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim


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