Posts Tagged ‘rationality’

Status of Socrates in Islam

January 23, 2014

Not all the prophets and messengers of the One-True-God (Allah Yahweh Ahura-Mazda Parameshawara Eshawara) have been named in Quran; only about twenty five of them have been mentioned in Quran by their names; for others general characteristics have been mentioned of a truthful prophet messengers.

It is one of the basic principles of Islam to believe in all the prophets messengers of the One-True-God Allah wherever they have come in the world. One cannot deny any of them as the denial of any one of them may mean denial of the office of prophet- hood and this way denial of all the prophets and messengers; as they all have been sent by the One-True-God.

One such prophet is Socrates.

We give here some of the verses of Quran that give characteristics of a prophet in this connection:

1. [35:25] Verily, We have sent thee with the truth, as a bearer of glad tidings and as a Warner; and there is no people to whom a Warner has not been sent.
[35:26] And if they treat thee as a liar, those who were before them also treated their Prophets as liars. Their Messengers came to them with clear Signs, and with the Scriptures, and with the illuminating Book.

2. [16:37] And We did raise among every people a Messenger, preaching: ‘Worship Allah and shun the Evil One.’ Then among them were some whom Allah guided and among them weresome who became deserving of ruin. So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who treated the Prophets as liars!

3. [34:35] And We never sent a Warner to any city but the wealthy ones thereof said, ‘Surely, we disbelieve in what you have been sent with.’

4. [15:11] And We sent Messengers before thee among parties of ancient peoples.
[15:12] And there never came to them any Messenger but they mocked at him.

5. [18:7] So haply thou wilt grieve thyself to death for sorrow after them if they believe not in this discourse.

It won’t be out of place here that The fourth successor to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (peace be upon him), the founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community (who believe him to be the Promised Messiah, the grand unifier of the Latter Days) pays homage to Socrates in his marvelous book “Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge & Truth” in the following words:

“He was a prophet among philosophers and a philosopher among prophets. He believed in the unshakeable Unity of God. Of His absolute goodness he did not entertain the slightest doubt. This is what he pronounced during his last speech before the Athenian senate. He believed in God, the possessor of absolute goodness, not merely through his intellectual and metaphysical exercise, he believed because he had personally known Him as such, right from the early days of his childhood.

Nay, he was brought up in the very lap of God with His personal love and care. This was Socrates who also tackled this question with profound logic but it is a logic largely spent on proving the impossibility of any evil originating from God. When it came to the issue of evil and suffering in the world, he dismissed them as human errors, logically impossible to have emanated from Him.

He had to be good, He was good and He could not be anything but good. Hence, evil must have been generated by earthly people, God having no share in their defiled practices. His answer was simple but left room for others to assail him philosophically so that ultimately he could be driven to an indefensible position.”

Ahmad, Hazrat Mirza Tahir – Khalifatul Masih IV. Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge & Truth. (Islam
International Publications Ltd, 1998. 174, 175.

Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad Khalifatul Masih IV argued further in his book that Socrates was a prophet of the ancient Greeks.

Hazrat Khalifatul Masih IV writes further:

“There must have been prophets before and after him but of them we can only infer from some oblique references by Socrates himself. For instance, he is known to have said that he is not the only one from God who has been the recipient of revelation; there have been great men before who did the same to serve the cause of goodness. Again, he warns Athenians not to put him to death otherwise they would never see the like of him again, except if God so desires to teach the right path to the Athenians by sending someone else.”

Ahmad, Hazrat Mirza Tahir – Khalifatul Masih IV. Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge & Truth. (Islam
International Publications Ltd, 1998). 73.

For more details on the subject one could read the following article titled “Socrates: Philosopher or Prophet” at the following link.

Click to access Socrates.pdf

Why did Buddha beg alms from the public? Did Buddha himself explain his rationality for doing this?

April 26, 2013

Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad; all of them were founders of great revealed religions of the world; they did not beg alms from the public.

I don’t get at the rationality of Buddha seeking alms from the public.

Is there anybody who should explain this here?

Please quote from Buddha in this connection, if possible.

Paarsurrey says:

I posed this question to a discussion forum and in response to the friends there I wrote:

1. Bhikkhu = Beggarmonk | Theravadin
Maybe I am wrong to understand; but followings seem to me against begging alms, not in its favour:

1. “Bhikkhus, this is contemptible means of subsistence, this gathering of alms.
2. Far better for him to swallow
A fiery hot iron ball
Than that immoral and uncontrolled
He should eat the country’s alms.

2. I agree and appreciate that Buddha’s intention was to re-establish the “eternal law” or the truthful religion but begging of alms is not an eternal law or sanatana dharma. If a whole community indulges in it; there were be nobody to give alms. I don’t think Buddha could do or teach such an unreasonable thing.

3. One of our friends here referred to a Sutra which mentions, if I have understood it correctly:

“Far better for him to swallow
A fiery hot iron ball
Than that immoral and uncontrolled
He should eat the country’s alms.”

Buddha did not like that one should eat the country’s alms; it is as good as to swallow a fiery hot iron ball.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


Thanks for directing me to the Wikipedia article; it concentrates more on giving alms rather than seeking or begging alms.

It is charitable that if a needy come; one should respect him and give him food and drink.

One could view my posts at:

Seeing apparitions of Mary and Jesus

April 18, 2013

I have noticed some Christians claim seeing apparition of Mary or Jesus. I have always wondered if they saw somebody, and I don’t doubt that they have not seen something, as to how they identify somebody as Mary or Jesus that appeared to them. How could they be able to recognize one whom they did not see while one was alive in one’s real life? Nevertheless; I never had such experience myself so it is quite natural that I cannot benefit from their private experience. We humans could share only reasonable and rational things a common tool of understanding between us; I think everybody will agree with me. More so because there are no standard features of Mary or Jesus described in the Bible; and those who claim to have seen them as apparitions also differ a lot.

I quote here from a Christian site in connection with Mary’s apparitions:

“The apparition appeared on the domes of the church for up to two hours or more at a time, always at night, but not every night and not at regular times. The Lady appeared in glittering light—so bright that her features could not be clearly seen—which streamed across the church. She was invariably preceded or accompanied by luminous “doves,” “strange bird-like creatures made of light,” which did not flap their wings but glided.”

Reason could benefit from Revelation; if it is in the original words and language (with its text and the context fully preserved); and if it was revealed on a human messenger prophet of one true God.

As to the Word revealed on Jesus and Mary; the above condition of reason and rationality is non-existent in their case.
In addition to the above the gospel writers or scribes wrote things with a purpose; Christians sometimes do mention it; that makes their writings biased; not fit to be trusted, in my opinion.

One has a right to differ with me; as do anybody else; I agree.

“Christian Right’s attack on rights”

February 28, 2010

Hi friends

I agree with the following statement:

“Christianity was not at the founding, nor is it now a monolithic “ism” that justifies the domination and suppression of others–not even Wiccan/Pagans”

“Christianity” is a misnomer; it was not founded by Jesus who was Monotheist undoubtedly.”Christianity” was founded by Paul; and since then it did not remain Monotheist; it became a religion of Trinity.

Notwithstanding the above every religion has a right to present their case with reason, rationality and logical arguments to convince the human beings together by supporting with Revelation from the Creator- God Allah YHWH for fulfilling the Ethical, Moral and Spiritual needs of the man. Who wins I don’t mind. If the Atheists have anything useful in these faculties; they also have a right to serve humanity in these areas.

Christians are no exception.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

“The (religious) textbook wars”

February 27, 2010

Paarsurrey wrote:
February 26, 2010 7:27 AM

Hi friends

The Religion should be a part of the education of children in Schools; so that they have an idea of Ethics, Morals and the Spiritual progress. There is no harm if the point of view of the Seculars or Humanists or the Atheists is also accommodated in the text books.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

YEAL9 wrote:
February 26, 2010 10:30 AM

More movements (and another Messiah) in a stream of Islamic sects;

“Ahmadiyya (äh mə dē’ yə), a contemporary messianic movement founded (1899) by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1839-1908), b. Qadiyan, the Punjab. His Barahin-i Ahmadiyya, which he began to publish in 1880, was well received by his Islamic community. In 1889, he announced that he had received a divine revelation authorizing him to accept the baya, the allegiance of the faithful; he later also declared himself the Mahdi and the promised Messiah (masih) of Islam (1891).

His doctrine, incorporating Indian, Sufi, Islamic, and Western elements, attempted to revitalize Islam in the face of the British raj, Protestant Christianity, and resurgent Hinduism.

After his death, his followers elected Mawlana Nur ad-Din as his successor. Nur ad-Din died in 1914, and the community split into two branches. The majority remained in Qadiyan and recognized Ghulam Ahmad as prophet (nabi). The basic belief held by the Qadiyani community was and is that it is the sole embodiment of “True Islam.”

The founder’s son, Hadhrat Mirza Bashir ad-Din Mahmud Ahmad (1889-1965), was chosen as Khalifatul-Masih [caliph of the Messiah] by the Qadiyani branch, known today as the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam (jamaat-i ahmadiyya). His half-century of leadership shaped the movement, operating after 1947 out of the city of Rabwah (which they founded and gave a Qur’anically inspired name) in Pakistan and administering a network of schools and hospitals.

His successors have been chosen from among Ghulam Ahmad’s descendants; the leader of the movement (since 2003) is Mirza Masroor Ahmad (b. 1950).

The other branch, less willing to distinguish itself from mainstream Islam, recognized Ghulam Ahmad as a reformer (mujaddid) and established what came to be known as the ahmadiyya anjuman ishaat-i Islam movement in Lahore, Pakistan, also known as the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement. Both branches engage in energetic missionary activity in Nigeria, Kenya, Indonesia, and the Indian subcontinent.”


Paarsurrey wrote:
February 27, 2010 8:21 AM

Hi friends

Our friend YEAL9 has provided good information about Ahmadiyya. Ahmadiyya is an enlightened movement not only to revitalize Islam but all the Revealed Religions of the world. Since it accepts reason, rationality and revelation as consistent tools of man for life; hence it bridges the gaps between Atheists and Theists also and in this way works for bringing about understanding and peace in the world. Ahmadiyya don’t see any real wedge between Science and Religion; the former being the Work and the later being the Word of the same Creator- God Allah YHWH.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

‎“Saudi Arabis and why child marriage is allowed”‎

July 19, 2009

I posted following comments on; the comments have not yet been ‎published and await moderation:

‎“Paar Sura 65:4 says marry babies before the period.”‎‎allowed/‎
‎ ‎
Paarsurrey says:

I thought it was appropriate for our friend Raisinhead when referring to a text of the verse ‎of Quran to give the usual context of the same which normally consists of five preceding ‎and five following verses; and then to establish his viewpoint to convince the members of ‎this forum. Since he has not given it; I will like to make it convenient for my friends here ‎and I quote from an internet site:‎

[65:1] بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
[65:1] بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ
[65:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[65:1] اللہ کے نام کے ساتھ جو بے انتہا رحم کرنے والا، بِن مانگے دینے والا (اور) بار بار رحم کرنے والا ہے۔
[65:2] يٰۤاَيُّهَا النَّبِىُّ اِذَا طَلَّقْتُمُ النِّسَآءَ فَطَلِّقُوْهُنَّ لِعِدَّتِهِنَّ وَاَحْصُوا الْعِدَّةَ ‌ۚ وَاتَّقُوا اللّٰهَ رَبَّكُمْ‌ۚ لَا تُخْرِجُوْهُنَّ مِنْۢ بُيُوْتِهِنَّ وَلَا يَخْرُجْنَ اِلَّاۤ اَنْ يَّاْتِيْنَ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ‌ؕ وَتِلْكَ حُدُوْدُ اللّٰهِ‌ؕ وَمَنْ يَّتَعَدَّ حُدُوْدَ اللّٰهِ فَقَدْ ظَلَمَ نَفْسَهٗ‌ؕ لَا تَدْرِىْ لَعَلَّ اللّٰهَ يُحْدِثُ بَعْدَ ذٰلِكَ اَمْرًا‏
[65:2] يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلنَّبِىُّ إِذَا طَلَّقۡتُمُ ٱلنِّسَآءَ فَطَلِّقُوهُنَّ لِعِدَّتِہِنَّ وَأَحۡصُواْ ٱلۡعِدَّةَ‌ۖ وَٱتَّقُواْ ٱللَّهَ رَبَّڪُمۡ‌ۖ لَا تُخۡرِجُوهُنَّ مِنۢ بُيُوتِهِنَّ وَلَا يَخۡرُجۡنَ إِلَّآ أَن يَأۡتِينَ بِفَـٰحِشَةٍ۬ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ۬‌ۚ وَتِلۡكَ حُدُودُ ٱللَّهِ‌ۚ وَمَن يَتَعَدَّ حُدُودَ ٱللَّهِ فَقَدۡ ظَلَمَ نَفۡسَهُ ۥ‌ۚ لَا تَدۡرِى لَعَلَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحۡدِثُ بَعۡدَ ذَٲلِكَ أَمۡرً۬ا
[65:2] O Prophet! when you divorce women, divorce them for the prescribed period, and reckon the period; and fear Allah. Turn them not out of their houses, nor should they themselves leave unless they commit an act which is manifestly foul. And these are the limits set by Allah; and whoso transgresses the limits of Allah, he indeed wrongs his own soul. Thou knowest not; it may be that thereafter Allah will bring something new to pass.
[65:2] اے نبی! جب تم (لوگ) اپنی بیویوں کو طلاق دیا کرو تو ان کو ان کی (طلاق کی) عدت کے مطابق طلاق دو اور عدت کا شمار رکھو اور اللہ، اپنے ربّ سے ڈرو۔ انہیں اُن کے گھروں سے نہ نکالو اور نہ وہ خود نکلیں سوائے اس کے کہ وہ کھلی کھلی بے حیائی کی مرتکب ہوئی ہوں۔ اور یہ اللہ کی حدود ہیں اور جو بھی اللہ کی حدود سے تجاوز کرے تو یقیناً اس نے اپنی جان پر ظلم کیا۔ تُو نہیں جانتا کہ شاید اس کے بعد اللہ کوئی (نیا) فیصلہ ظاہر کردے۔
[65:3] فَاِذَا بَلَغْنَ اَجَلَهُنَّ فَاَمْسِكُوْهُنَّ بِمَعْرُوْفٍ اَوْ فَارِقُوْهُنَّ بِمَعْرُوْفٍ وَّاَشْهِدُوْا ذَوَىْ عَدْلٍ مِّنْكُمْ وَاَقِيْمُوا الشَّهَادَةَ لِلّٰهِ‌ؕ ذٰلِكُمْ يُوْعَظُ بِهٖ مَنْ كَانَ يُؤْمِنُ بِاللّٰهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْاٰخِرِ‌ ؕ وَمَنْ يَّتَّقِ اللّٰهَ يَجْعَل لَّهٗ مَخْرَجًاۙ‏
[65:3] فَإِذَا بَلَغۡنَ أَجَلَهُنَّ فَأَمۡسِكُوهُنَّ بِمَعۡرُوفٍ أَوۡ فَارِقُوهُنَّ بِمَعۡرُوفٍ۬ وَأَشۡہِدُواْ ذَوَىۡ عَدۡلٍ۬ مِّنكُمۡ وَأَقِيمُواْ ٱلشَّهَـٰدَةَ لِلَّهِ‌ۚ ذَٲلِڪُمۡ يُوعَظُ بِهِۦ مَن كَانَ يُؤۡمِنُ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلۡيَوۡمِ ٱلۡأَخِرِ‌ۚ وَمَن يَتَّقِ ٱللَّهَ يَجۡعَل لَّهُ ۥ مَخۡرَجً۬ا
[65:3] Then, when they are about to reach their prescribed term, keep them with kindness, or put them away with kindness, and call to witness two just persons from among you; and bear true witness for Allah. This is by which is admonished he who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And he who fears Allah — He will make for him a way out,
[65:3] پس جب وہ اپنی مقررہ میعاد کو پہنچ جائیں تو پھر انہیں معروف طریق پر روک لو یا انہیں معروف طریق پر جدا کردو اور اپنے میں سے دو صاحبِ انصاف (شخصوں) کو گواہ ٹھہرا لو اور اللہ کے لئے شہادت کو قائم کرو۔ یہ وہ امر ہے جس کی نصیحت کی جاتی ہے ہر اس شخص کو، جو اللہ اور یومِ آخر پر ایمان لاتا ہے۔ اور جو اللہ سے ڈرے اُس کے لئے وہ نجات کی کوئی راہ بنا دیتا ہے۔
[65:4] وَّيَرْزُقْهُ مِنْ حَيْثُ لَا يَحْتَسِبُ‌ؕ وَمَنْ يَّتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللّٰهِ فَهُوَ حَسْبُهٗؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ بَالِغُ اَمْرِهٖ‌ؕ قَدْ جَعَلَ اللّٰهُ لِكُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدْرًا‏
[65:4] وَيَرۡزُقۡهُ مِنۡ حَيۡثُ لَا يَحۡتَسِبُ‌ۚ وَمَن يَتَوَكَّلۡ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ فَهُوَ حَسۡبُهُ ۥۤ‌ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ بَـٰلِغُ أَمۡرِهِۦ‌ۚ قَدۡ جَعَلَ ٱللَّهُ لِكُلِّ شَىۡءٍ۬ قَدۡرً۬ا
[65:4] And will provide for him from where he expects not. And he who puts his trust in Allah — He is sufficient for him. Verily, Allah will accomplish His purpose. For everything has Allah appointed a measure.
[65:4] اور وہ اُسے وہاں سے رزق عطا کرتا ہے جہاں سے وہ گمان بھی نہیں کرسکتا۔ اور جو اللہ پر توکل کرے تو وہ اُس کے لئے کافی ہے۔ یقیناً اللہ اپنے فیصلہ کو مکمل کرکے رہتا ہے۔ اللہ نے ہر چیز کا ایک منصوبہ بنا رکھا ہے۔
[65:5] وَالّٰٓـىٴِْ يَٮِٕسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيْضِ مِنْ نِّسَآٮِٕكُمْ اِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلٰثَةُ اَشْهُرٍ وَّالّٰٓـىٴِْ لَمْ يَحِضْنَ‌ؕ وَاُولَاتُ الْاَحْمَالِ اَجَلُهُنَّ اَنْ يَّضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ‌ؕ وَمَنْ يَّتَّقِ اللّٰهَ يَجْعَل لَّهٗ مِنْ اَمْرِهٖ یُسْرًا‏
[65:5] وَٱلَّـٰٓـِٔى يَٮِٕسۡنَ مِنَ ٱلۡمَحِيضِ مِن نِّسَآٮِٕكُمۡ إِنِ ٱرۡتَبۡتُمۡ فَعِدَّتُہُنَّ ثَلَـٰثَةُ أَشۡهُرٍ۬ وَٱلَّـٰٓـِٔى لَمۡ يَحِضۡنَ‌ۚ وَأُوْلَـٰتُ ٱلۡأَحۡمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَن يَضَعۡنَ حَمۡلَهُنَّ‌ۚ وَمَن يَتَّقِ ٱللَّهَ يَجۡعَل لَّهُ ۥ مِنۡ أَمۡرِهِۦ يُسۡرً۬ا
[65:5] And if you are in doubt as to such of your women as despair of monthly courses, then know that the prescribed period for them is three months, and the same is for such as have not had their monthly courses yet. And as for those who are with child, their period shall be until they are delivered of their burden. And whoso fears Allah, He will provide facilities for him in his affair.
[65:5] اور تمہاری عورتوں میں سے جو حیض سے مایوس ہوچکی ہوں اگر تمہیں شک ہو تو ان کی عدت تین مہینے ہے اور اُن کی بھی جو حائضہ نہیں ہوئیں۔ اور جہاں تک حمل والیوں کا تعلق ہے اُن کی عدت وضعِ حمل ہے۔ اور جو اللہ کا تقویٰ اختیار کرے اللہ اپنے حکم سے اس کے لئے آسانی پیدا کردے گا۔
[65:6] ذٰلِكَ اَمْرُ اللّٰهِ اَنْزَلَهٗۤ اِلَيْكُمْ‌ؕ وَمَنْ يَّتَّقِ اللّٰهَ يُكَفِّرْ عَنْهُ سَيِّاٰتِهٖ وَيُعْظِمْ لَهٗۤ اَجْرًا‏
[65:6] ذَٲلِكَ أَمۡرُ ٱللَّهِ أَنزَلَهُ ۥۤ إِلَيۡكُمۡ‌ۚ وَمَن يَتَّقِ ٱللَّهَ يُكَفِّرۡ عَنۡهُ سَيِّـَٔاتِهِۦ وَيُعۡظِمۡ لَهُ ۥۤ أَجۡرًا
[65:6] That is the command of Allah which He has revealed to you. And whoso fears Allah — He will remove the evil consequences of his deeds and will enlarge his reward.
[65:6] یہ اللہ کا حکم ہے جو اُس نے تمہاری طرف اتارا۔ اور جو اللہ سے ڈرتا ہے وہ اُس سے اس کی برائیاں دور کر دیتا ہے اور اُس کے اَجر کو بہت بڑھا دیتا ہے۔
[65:7] اَسْكِنُوْهُنَّ مِنْ حَيْثُ سَكَنْتُمْ مِّنْ وُّجْدِكُمْ وَلَا تُضَآرُّوْهُنَّ لِتُضَيِّقُوْا عَلَيْهِنَّ‌ؕ وَاِنْ كُنَّ اُولَاتِ حَمْلٍ فَاَنْفِقُوْا عَلَيْهِنَّ حَتّٰى يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ‌‌ۚ فَاِنْ اَرْضَعْنَ لَـكُمْ فَاٰتُوْهُنَّ اُجُوْرَهُنَّ‌ۚ وَاْتَمِرُوْا بَيْنَكُمْ بِمَعْرُوْفٍ‌ۚ وَاِنْ تَعَاسَرْتُمْ فَسَتُرْضِعُ لَهٗۤ اُخْرٰىؕ‏
[65:7] أَسۡكِنُوهُنَّ مِنۡ حَيۡثُ سَكَنتُم مِّن وُجۡدِكُمۡ وَلَا تُضَآرُّوهُنَّ لِتُضَيِّقُواْ عَلَيۡہِنَّ‌ۚ وَإِن كُنَّ أُوْلَـٰتِ حَمۡلٍ۬ فَأَنفِقُواْ عَلَيۡہِنَّ حَتَّىٰ يَضَعۡنَ حَمۡلَهُنَّ‌ۚ فَإِنۡ أَرۡضَعۡنَ لَكُمۡ فَـَٔاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ‌ۖ وَأۡتَمِرُواْ بَيۡنَكُم بِمَعۡرُوفٍ۬‌ۖ وَإِن تَعَاسَرۡتُمۡ فَسَتُرۡضِعُ لَهُ ۥۤ أُخۡرَىٰ
[65:7] Lodge them during the prescribed period in the houses wherein you dwell, according to the best of your means; and harass them not that you may create hardships for them. And if they be with child, spend on them until they are delivered of their burden. And if they give suck to the child for you, give them their recompense, and consult with one another in kindness; but if you meet with difficulty from each other, then another woman shall suckle the child for him (the father).
[65:7] اُن کو سکونت مہیا کرو جہاں تم (خود) اپنی حیثیت کے مطابق رہتے ہو اور انہیں تکلیف نہ پہنچاؤ تاکہ ان پر زندگی تنگ کردو۔ اور اگر وہ حمل والیاں ہوں تو ان پر خرچ کرتے رہو یہاں تک کہ وہ اپنے حمل سے فارغ ہو جائیں۔ پھر اگر وہ تمہاری خاطر دودھ پلائیں تو ان کی اُجرت انہیں دو اور اپنے درمیان معروف کے مطابق موافقت کا ماحول پیدا کرو اور اگر تم ایک دوسرے سے (معاملہ فہمی میں) تنگی محسوس کرو تو اُس (باپ) کے لئے کوئی دوسری (دودھ پلانے والی) دودھ پلا ئے۔
[65:8] لِيُنْفِقْ ذُوْ سَعَةٍ مِّنْ سَعَتِهٖ‌ؕ وَمَنْ قُدِرَ عَلَيْهِ رِزْقُهٗ فَلْيُنْفِقْ مِمَّاۤ اٰتٰٮهُ اللّٰهُ‌ؕ لَا يُكَلِّفُ اللّٰهُ نَفْسًا اِلَّا مَاۤ اٰتٰٮهَا‌ؕ سَيَجْعَلُ اللّٰهُ بَعْدَ عُسْرٍ يُّسْرًا‏
[65:8] لِيُنفِقۡ ذُو سَعَةٍ۬ مِّن سَعَتِهِۦ‌ۖ وَمَن قُدِرَ عَلَيۡهِ رِزۡقُهُ ۥ فَلۡيُنفِقۡ مِمَّآ ءَاتَٮٰهُ ٱللَّهُ‌ۚ لَا يُكَلِّفُ ٱللَّهُ نَفۡسًا إِلَّا مَآ ءَاتَٮٰهَا‌ۚ سَيَجۡعَلُ ٱللَّهُ بَعۡدَ عُسۡرٍ۬ يُسۡرً۬ا
[65:8] Let him who has abundance of means spend out of his abundance. And let him whose means of subsistence are straitened spend out of what Allah has given him. Allah burdens not any soul beyond that which He has given it. Allah will soon bring about ease after hardship.
[65:8] چاہئے کہ صاحبِ حیثیت اپنی حیثیت کے مطابق خرچ کرے اور جس پر اُس کا رزق تھوڑا کردیا گیا ہو تو جو بھی اُسے اللہ نے دیا ہے وہ اس میں سے خرچ کرے۔ اللہ ہرگز کسی جان کو اس سے بڑھ کر جو اُس نے اُسے دیا ہو تکلیف نہیں دیتا۔ اللہ ضرور ہر تنگی کے بعد ایک آسانی پیدا کردیتا ہے۔
[65:9] وَكَاَيِّنْ مِّنْ قَرْيَةٍ عَتَتْ عَنْ اَمْرِ رَبِّهَا وَرُسُلِهٖ فَحَاسَبْنٰهَا حِسَابًا شَدِيْدًاۙ وَّعَذَّبْنٰهَا عَذَابًا نُّكْرًا‏
[65:9] وَكَأَيِّن مِّن قَرۡيَةٍ عَتَتۡ عَنۡ أَمۡرِ رَبِّہَا وَرُسُلِهِۦ فَحَاسَبۡنَـٰهَا حِسَابً۬ا شَدِيدً۬ا وَعَذَّبۡنَـٰهَا عَذَابً۬ا نُّكۡرً۬ا
[65:9] How many a city rebelled against the command of its Lord and His Messengers, and We called it to severe account, and punished it with dire punishment!
[65:9] اور کتنی ہی ایسی بستیاں ہیں جنہوں نے اپنے ربّ کے حکم کی نافرمانی کی اور اس کے رسولوں کی بھی تو ہم نے ان سے ایک بہت سخت حساب لیا اور انہیں بہت تکلیف دِہ عذاب میں مبتلا کیا۔
[65:10] فَذَاقَتْ وَبَالَ اَمْرِهَا وَكَانَ عَاقِبَةُ اَمْرِهَا خُسْرًا‏
[65:10] فَذَاقَتۡ وَبَالَ أَمۡرِهَا وَكَانَ عَـٰقِبَةُ أَمۡرِهَا خُسۡرًا
[65:10] So it tasted the evil consequences of its conduct, and the end of its affair was ruin.
[65:10] پس انہوں نے اپنے فیصلہ کا وبال چکھ لیا اور ان کے کاموں کا انجام گھاٹا تھا۔

Anybody here may please mention with reasonable arguments that the text in Arabic and ‎its context straightforwardly discusses and commands child marriage. My opinion is that ‎the Quran here discusses the adult women and not the child girls; not even remotely.‎
Loving ratinonality and humanity are good virtues.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The Word of God, if it is truthful, should consist and reflect systems, reasons, logics as God is All-Wise

May 21, 2009

Maaark says:


You do not hurt my feelings. That is not issue.

To have any discussion we must first find some common ground. With atheists the common ground is nature. That is common to all mankind. We also believe that the Creator, Allah is revealed in nature as an artist is revealed in his art. I suggest this as a starting point. If we each claim that our scriptures nullify each others scriptures it is end of discussion.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend maark

Your stance as incorporated in the above passage is reasonable. Reason and logic is the common tool with which get convinced with; it is the common tool with which we in fact intellectually digest one another’s differing opinions to sort out the reality and facts for us.

I as an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim do confirm that Allah is revealed in nature or the systematic laws of the Universe; and this forms the Work of God or Act of God. Likewise we at the same time think that the Word of God, if it is truthful, should consist and reflect systems, reasons, logics as God is All-Wise.

There should therefore be no contradiction in the Act of God and the Word of God.

We therefore prefer to present to Atheists/Agnostics, Christians and others:

1. Reason, rationality, logical arguments; which as you have, rightly admitted, form the common language of understanding between us. This forms witnessing of the Nature.
2. Then we give reasonable arguments from the Word of God, Quran, in the form of the secure and protected text.
3. Then we give the reasons and argument as mentioned in the Word of God, Quran, mentioned with the text, in the context.
4. Then we also provide the available text from the Revealed Books of other religions, Bible, Gita, Buddhist scriptures, Torah etc; on as is where is basis; meaning thereby that the portions of their books which is in conformity with Quran, only that is truthful and the rest has changed with the passage of time.

I think this is the most reasonable tools of investigation; which also includes your stance also.

What is you opinion on this? I think you agree with me.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Bible is not alright, it does not provide what was revealed on Jesus

May 7, 2009

Peacewithinreach says:

Actually, I find the Bible to be right on, even for life today.

Paarsurrey says:
Hi friend peacewithinreach

God Allah YHWH is an authority being the Creator of the Universe; we have to obey whatever He says; but he is All-Wisdom also and he has bestowed us human beings with wisdom and reasoning also which He has not given so much to other of his creatures.

This is an age of information and reasoning; it is well suited to the present era that whatever is commanded is also proved with rational and logical.

A convinced person heart and soul with reasons and rationality find it easier to become an obedient servant and submitter to God.

Bible is not alright, it does not provide what was revealed on Jesus, it provides what Paul thought of that is why it lacks straightforward claims/assertion and also reason thereof .

Bible is therefore an outmoded book and does not meet the temporal, moral and spiritual needs of the era. It only builds a blind faith; as Paul lost/impaired his eyesight when he made up the vision that he had seen Jesus.

One does not find the teachings of this book rationally and logically true; neither one could ever find them in this book. The nature and psyche of the Americans; peoples in the West and the East therefore reject this book and have resorted to accepting Atheism in large numbers.

The Catholics and Protestants are good and intelligent persons; they should realize the tricks, bluffs and cunningness of Paul and accept the Jesus and Mary of Quran.

Quran presents claims and reasons in the text and the context and fulfils the needs of the era. Quran presents the bright and shining teachings of Jesus and Mary and establishes their respect, honor and love in the hearts of the people most affectively.

If America is to be saved; it has to accept the truthful Jesus of Quran.

I respect your religion; but this is what I believe sincerely and frankly.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Please feel free to point out anything you think, I have understood wrongly

April 30, 2009

fgenej11 says:

Couldn’t what you believe then be wrong?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend fgenej11

Yes, a human being is apt to err. I am a sinful ordinary human being, a man in the street; there is a possibility that I could misunderstand things, make mistakes. It is for this that while being sure to be on the right path, I keep a window or door of my heart and mind free for anything my human being friends could tell me, but with reasons, rationality and logical arguments, they should do it.

It is for this that I opened this blog to discuss the things with my fellow human beings here.

Please feel free to point out anything you think, I have understood wrongly.

What else we could do except to discuss and pray for one another? We cannot resort to believing blindly what others could want to put down our throats. God Allah YHWH has given us wisdom and reason; we should accept the truth with search and research.

I think that helps.

I respect your faith.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Baruch’s Conversion from a Christian to a Jew

August 7, 2008

I think it is only because the Christians follow mythical theological philosophy of Paul invented at Rome; and that they don’t follow simple teachings of Jesus that their faith is no longer rational and reasonable. The ordinary, man in the street, has not other alternative than either to become an Atheist/Agnostic or to change his religion. This is the frustration, in my opinion, of the most of the Christians of today.
I give hereunder a real story of Bruce James (Baruch Gershom) who converted from mythical Christianity of Paul to Judaism.
The Christians are requested to search for the real faith of Jesus by leaving deviant ways of Paul and returning to Jesus.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim


From Bruce James (Baruch Gershom) , for

I wrote the following article which was published in the Baltimore Jewish Times on April 10, 1981. It has been excerpted in the book “Becoming Jewish” by Rabbi Maurice Lamm.

“You’re a convert? Gee. That’s interesting. If you don’t mind my asking, why did you do it?”

I suppose every convert to Judaism is asked the question and I’ve gotten used to it, but there is another comment I often hear that is disturbing:

“You’re a convert? There must have been a girl.”


A lot of people just can’t believe that there is something in the Jewish religion worth having. Something that someone from the accepted, middle-class WASP world would want. So when a Jewish person makes this comment, I have to realize my patience and explain why I converted and how much value there is in being Jewish.

I doubt that my parents will ever understand why I converted. All they see now is a yarmulka on the head of a son who’s not the same person they watched grow up.

But I am the same person. Yes, I keep my head covered, pray three times a day, put on tefillin, keep a kosher home and stomach, keep Shabbos strictly, and observe other laws that, in my parents’ eyes, link me with the most fanatic and backward cult in the world. When I come home, it’s not as if their son came home, rather it’s as if they received a visit from someone from another planet.

Still, it is doubtful that I could have become an Orthodox Jew without important training I received at home.

My parents gave me a firm belief in G-d, a dedication to honesty and consistency, and a love for all people. Without these values I would have been lost in an agnostic world full of contradictions and ethical conflicts.

I was 16 when I decided to become a Jew. But even at 14 or 15 I was very religious, active in my church and giving thought to someday becoming a minister as had my great-great-grandfather. I was developing ideas that were different from standard Christian doctrine: not knowing any alternative, though, I decided to use them in a Christian context.

But all that changed one Friday night. My church confirmation class made a field trip to the synagogue in my hometown, Colorado Springs, Colorado. After the service, the rabbi stayed on and answered our questions.

One student asked if the color of the rabbi’s skullcap meant anything. No, he said. He has one to match his blue suit and others to match different articles of clothing. Another person asked him why they had somebody else (a cantor) sing the service. “Because he has a better voice than I have,” he answered quickly with a grin.

But I was cocky, and still believing that Jesus was Messiah, I baited the rabbi:

“Has the Messiah come yet?” I asked.

“No,” he said. “Look at all the suffering in the world.”

“When will he come?”

“Certainly not until we get better for him.”

“Then why should he come?”


I was stunned. Obviously, his answers to my questions were brief and over-simplified. But he hit me with one of my own theories that had no source in Christian doctrine: man plays a key role in the salvation of the world. The world is not doomed to destruction, and man may be, ultimately, perfectible.

I continued my studies of the New Testament. I was disturbed that the enlightenment of Jesus was fizzled by the narrow-minded doctrine of the Apostle Paul. Yet, when I finished my confirmation training, I was at the top of my class. On a test of Bible knowledge, the average score was 20 to 40 points. I scored an 88, double the next highest.

Then my minister asked everyone in my class to write a statement of faith. This would be used when the church elders considered our application for membership in the Presbyterian Church.

I prepared my paper with the same glee that Martin Luther must have had when he wrote his attack on the Catholic Church. First I attacked the way the Jewish ideas of Jesus had been cast away by Paul and other Church leaders and substituted with customs and values from pagan religions — often without benefit of any symbolic tie-in — all to make Christianity more marketable.

Then I attacked the dualism of Christianity. The devil got the blame for everything, I wrote with tongue in cheek, but where would Christianity be without the devil? What would motivate people to do good if not for the threat of eternal damnation?

One of the elders eventually read my piece. He told me that I had some interesting ideas. And he recommended me for membership. I couldn’t believe it. Didn’t the Church have any standards? I should have refused membership at that point. But at the time, I felt I really had no choice but to accept.

One day I just stopped going to church. But that didn’t send me to the synagogue. I didn’t know anything about Judaism. But I did know that I didn’t like the way Christianity had developed. In my mind, what had begun as a Jewish cult, in a short time, became a religion that preached love and fought wars.

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