Posts Tagged ‘OTBible’

Quran resolves all contradictions and ambiguities of Torah and Gospels

April 8, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/03/18/quran-is-neither-ambiguous-nor-contradictory/#comment-980

wudjab Says:
April 7, 2010 at 9:15 pm

Is this the same quran that real muslims (Shia, Sunni, etc) believe in or is this the magical Ahmediya version ?

Paarsurrey says:

April 8, 2010 at 11:08 am

Hi friend wudjab

Quran, the first and the foremost source of guidance of Islam is the same whatever the denomination; and it has not changed from the time it was revealed. It is the pristine Word of the Creator- God Allah YHWH. It has got all the lasting and truthful teachings of all the religions of the world; including OTBible or Torah and the NTBible.

There are many contradictions and ambiguities in the Bible and their followers are perplexed to note them, as you must have observed. If they have claims for the issues, they don’t have reasons for them in their books and if they have reason, which is very seldom; they don’t have the claims for that in their books.

To resolve such contradictions their followers have to add something from their own selves which mean they add wisdom to their Books which was not there to start with.

All such contradictions and ambiguities are resolved by Quran.

The text of the Quran is the same for Shias, Sunnis and Ahmadis. Ahmadis neither believe in any magic nor do we have any magical version of the Quran.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslims

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“Ending the pretense of faith”

March 20, 2010

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/paula_kirby/2010/03/ending_the_pretence.html

Hi friends

I quote from the article:

“These pastors, at least, have begun the important process of being honest with themselves”

I agree that these pastors have admitted an obvious fact; that what they preach is not based on truth. This open admission of the pastors if carried to its logical conclusions must entail the reform of the Christians faith in face of the Skepticism- taking place vacated by the Christian faith. And fortunately it is not difficult to do so. It should not be difficult to find out as to what Jesus and Mary believed in and what they never believed in but the Church ascribed it to them. What Jesus, Mary and the OTBible Prophets believed in was reasonable, rational and logical; with a little thought that could be ascertained and refreshed.

Jesus and Mary were devoted Jews; followers of Moses and OTBible or Torah and the Prophets. They could never deviate from their faith. So much so that Jesus was ready and in fact he was put on the Cross; but he did not waiver. He stood by the reasonable faith he had.

One has just to see as to what was Jesus’ and Mary’s belief in terms of the OTBible. The extra teachings later added or invented are just to be expunged being worthless additions and untrue witnessing.

The reformation is ready and it will be fine. Christians already believe in the OTBible; so the reformation would be within their belief system and not outside of it.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus never in fact claimed any deity in literal terms

January 24, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/punishment-for-claimants-of-divinity-in-jews-from-moses/#comment-891

Hi friend sch

I thank you for sending me an ocean of words , not on the topic , yet not quoting in your reply as I have asked you any verses from the OTBible or Torah where punishment for the claimant of divinity has been mentioned for Jews by Moses.

You may quote it now, if you like; there is however no compulsion.
So Jesus was a claimant of the office of a Prophet Messenger of the Creator -God Allah YHWH; and Jews tried to punish him as a false Prophet Messenger as mentioned in Deuteronomy 13 and Leviticus 24.
There is no punishment in Torah for a claimant of Divinity; so this was not a charge against Jesus by the Jews; Jesus never in fact claimed any deity in literal terms.

Jesus survived death on the Cross and later he migrated to India; and thus Jews failed in their designs and Jesus was proved a truthful Prophet of the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god?

January 22, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/jesus-had-no-claim-on-divinity/

Aaron Says:

You quote from the Bible as the source for your answer. That’s great. Do you know what the Bible says concerning the charge made by the Jews against Jesus?

Paarsurrey says:

Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.

Jesus pegged his biggest sign with Jonah; and Jonah was only a Prophet; for just repeating the same sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god? The Catholics and Protestants should ponder over this; if they believe in an iota of reason in the NTBible.

Since you believe in OTBible, please quote the punishment Jews had from Moses for the claimant of divinity?

Perhaps that answers your question also.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus is neither Son of God nor God in physical/literal sense but in metaphoric sense as per usage of Bible

November 15, 2008

Our learned friend R H Kelkar, who has translated New Testament into Marathi, a language in South India, has made following observations in his write-up titled “The Meaning of ‘Nava Karar “which could be viewed in entirety at :

http://marathibible.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/the-meaning-of-nava-karar/

We only give here only one point mentioned by him:

The New Testament or ‘Nava Karar’ portrays God as a loving and forgiving father, who sent His son Jesus Christ to this world in human form with an offer of salvation for all humanity.

Paarsurrey says:

The above point is not correctly derived by him from the OTBible; and hence it is not supported by Quran- the pristine and most secure Revealed Book among the Revealed Religions and hence incorrect. God is not a physical being; He has rather created the whole physical phenomenon as He willed. Nobody shares this or other of his attributes. Hence God is nobody’s physical or literal father.

God is father of the humans in a metaphoric sense, nothing could get created without his order/will; and this is the theme of the OTBible. God has no literal wife or He needs no sex that his off-shoots are called Sons of God. This is only in the metaphoric sense otherwise it does not carry any meaning literally and physically. GodAllahYHWH needs no wife or son; this is only a phenomenon of the mortal beings and a sort of extension of life given by the Creator to one’s species. GodAllahYHWH is immortal. Quran is very clear in this aspect:

[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say ‘He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] ‘He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.
http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=112

We can agree with R H Kelkar if he reconciles to the above explanation.

Jesus did not pay any debt of any human beings as maintained by R H Kelkar. Jesus never died a cursed death on Cross as incorrectly invented by Paul at Rome to misguide the Christian sheep. Jesus was not a scapegoat of Paul and his associated i.e., the Catholic Church.

If anybody has any debt, he shall have to pay it himself. When Paul propounded this philosophy, Jesus was at that time traveling in India, happily among his Jewish lost sheep of which he was also a shepherd. He was never a shepherd of the Gentiles; this is a concept wrongly ascribed to Jesus; this debt Paul shall have to pay for.

OTBible Says:

Son of God

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. JOHN 3.16

A DESCRIPTIVE TERM:
And they made a proclamation in Judah and Jerusalem unto all the children of captivity. EZRA 10.7

Then said he, These are the two sons of oil, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. ZECHARIA 4.14

Behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial [satin], beset the house round about. JUDGES 19.22

The good seed are the children of the kingdom. MATTHEW 13.38

JESUS NOT THE FIRST BORN SON:

ANGELS
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan was among them. JOB 1.6 & 2:1

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy. JOB 38.7

CHILDREN OF RIGHTEOUS:
That the sons of god saw the daughters of men that they were fair. GENESIS 6.2

THE ISRAELITES:

And thou shalt say to Pharaoh. Thus said the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born. EXODUS 4.22

And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me. EXODUS 4.23

You are the children of the Lord, your God. DEUTERONOMY 14.1

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea. Ye are the sons of the living God. HOSEA 1.10

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/biblical/chapter_4.html

Ahmadiyya under guidance of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 Says:

• The Term “Son of God”

While the term “Son of God” has been used in reference to Jesus, it should be noted that God has used this title for many of His chosen ones.

For example, God, in the Old Testament refers to David: “I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, ‘You are my Son; today I have begotten you’” * (Psalm 2:7)

Furthermore, in a New Testament genealogy, Adam is listed as the “Son of God” (Luke 3.38).

In fact, some may argue that Adam could have a greater claim over the “Sonship of God” because, unlike Jesus, he had neither an earthly father nor mother.

In order to reconcile these references and many others, it is not unreasonable to conclude, that the Biblical usage of the term “Son of God” does not necessarily connote a literal “sonship to God” but a metaphorical one instead.

The Nature of Jesus

This metaphorical understanding is furthered by Jesus’ own words and actions. Jesus is known to have engaged in many human devotional activities such as fasting and praying. But perhaps the most significant evidence is that Jesus claimed to lack knowledge of the future because, as he claimed, only the Father possessed perfect knowledge. (Mark 13:32).

This is especially notable since Christian doctrine holds the view that Jesus’ nature is a “hypostatic union”. That is, he was “fully divine” and “fully man” at the same time. If this were true, then he should have at no point denied his own omniscience.

These, in addition to other philosophical considerations, lead one to question the biblical term “Son of God” and its literal application to Jesus.

http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus is not a scapegoat of Paul’s sins

July 17, 2008

R H Kelkar Says:

Our learned friend R H Kelkar, who has translated New Testament into Marathi, a language in South India, has made following observations in his write-up titled “The Meaning of ‘Nava Karar “which could be viewed in entirety at : http://marathibible.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/the-meaning-of-nava-karar/

We only give salient points from his observations:

1. God had prescribed laws for His people. Those who followed them enjoyed privileges and God’s protection, and those who disobeyed the laws incurred punishment and God’s wrath.

2. The New Testament or ‘Nava Karar’ portrays God as a loving and forgiving father, who sent His son Jesus Christ to this world in human form with an offer of salvation for all humanity.

3. The price of our salvation has been paid on our behalf by Jesus Christ.

Paarsurrey comments:

We agree with his first point which is, in my opinion, the theme of OTBible and is correct as it agrees with Quran the Holy and the most secure Word of GodAllahYHWH.

The second point is not correctly derived by him from the OTBible or fom his first observation; hence it is not supported by Quran and hence incorrect. God is not a physical being, He has rather created the whole physical phenomenon as He willed. Nobody shares this or other of his attributes. Hence God is nobody’s physical or literal father. God is father of the humans in a metaphorics sense, nothing could get created without his order/will, this is the theme of the OTBible. God has no literal wife or He needs no sex that his off-shoots are called Sons of God. This is only in the metaphoric sense otherwise it carries not meaning literally and physically. GodAllahYHWH needs no wife or son; this is only a phenomenon of the mortal being and a sort of extension of life given by the Creator to one’s species. GodAllahYHWH is immortal. Quran is very clear in this aspect:
[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say ‘He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] ‘He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.
http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=112

We can agree with him if he reconciles to the above explanation.
Since the second point is not derived by him, the third one is most faulty, in my opinion.

Jesus did not pay any debt of any human beings; he never died a cursed death on Cross as incorrectly invented by Paul at Rome to misguide the Christian sheep. Jesus was not scapegoat. If anybody has any debt, he shall have to pay it himself. When Paul propounded this philosophy, Jesus was travelling in India, happily among his Jewish lost sheep of whom he was also a shepherd. He was never a shephered of the Gentiles, this is a concept wrongly ascribed to Jesus; this debt Paul shall have to pay for.

OTBible Says:

Son of God
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. JOHN 3.16
A DESCRIPTIVE TERM:
And they made a proclamation in Judah and Jerusalem unto all the children of captivity. EZRA 10.7
Then said he, These are the two sons of oil, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. ZECHARIA 4.14
Behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial [satin], beset the house round about. JUDGES 19.22
The good seed are the children of the kingdom. MATTHEW 13.38
JESUS NOT THE FIRST BORN SON:
ANGELS
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and satan was among them. JOB 1.6 & 2:1
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy. JOB 38.7
CHILDREN OF RIGHTEOUS:
That the sons of god saw the daughters of men that they were fair. GENESIS 6.2
THE ISRAELITES:
And thou shalt say to Pharaoh. Thus said the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born. EXODUS 4.22
And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me. EXODUS 4.23
You are the children of the Lord, your God. DEUTERONOMY 14.1
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea. Ye are the sons of the living God. HOSEA 1.10
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/biblical/chapter_4.html

Ahmadiyya under guidance of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 Says:

• The Term “Son of God”
While the term “Son of God” has been used in reference to Jesus, it should be noted that God has used this title for many of His chosen ones.

For example, God, in the Old Testament refers to David: “I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, ‘You are my Son; today I have begotten you'” * (Psalm 2:7)

Furthermore, in a New Testament genealogy, Adam is listed as the “Son of God” (Luke 3.38). In fact, some may argue that Adam could have a greater claim over the “Sonship of God” because, unlike Jesus, he had neither an earthly father nor mother.

In order to reconcile these references and many others, it is not unreasonable to conclude, that the Biblical usage of the term “Son of God” does not necessarily connote a literal “sonship to God” but a metaphorical one instead.

The Nature of Jesus

This metaphorical understanding is furthered by Jesus’ own words and actions. Jesus is known to have engaged in many human devotional activities such as fasting and praying. But perhaps the most significant evidence is that Jesus claimed to lack knowledge of the future because, as he claimed, only the Father possessed perfect knowledge. (Mark 13:32).

This is especially notable since Christian doctrine holds the view that Jesus’ nature is a “hypostatic union”. That is, he was “fully divine” and “fully man” at the same time. If this were true, then he should have at no point denied his own omniscience.

These, in addition to other philosophical considerations, lead one to question the biblical term “Son of God” and its literal application to Jesus.
http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

Jesus not an accursed person – a sinner as held by Paul

July 13, 2008

Job Says:

July 12, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Jesus Christ’s crucifixion has been independently verified by documents from the Roman Empire as well as the Jewish (NOT CHRISTIAN!) historian Flavius Josephus. Paul was not even in Jerusalem when Jesus Christ was crucified, and he may not have even been alive. The Bible narratives of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ come from Matthew and John (two eyewitnesses), Mark (who traveled with the eyewitness Peter), and Luke (who spoke with other eyewitnesses). Claiming that Paul invented the death of Jesus Christ on the cross is a statement totally inconsistent with not only the New Testament but independently verified and documented history. And as for the significance of Jesus Christ’s death – an innocent man who was God in the flesh dying in place of the guilty as a sin offering as described in Leviticus, and incidentally Barabbas took the place of the scapegoat – was not invented by Paul, but rather described in John, Matthew, Luke, and the other gospels.

The “Christianity was invented by Paul” notion is a common one of modern times, but it does not stand up to theological or historical scrutiny. In order for it to be true, Paul would have had to have written the entire New Testament rather than merely the books attributed to him.

Job Says:

July 12, 2008 at 9:29 pm

Further, for Paul to have invented Christianity, the independent historical documents from Roman and Jewish sources would have had to have been frauds as well.

paarsurrey Says:

July 13, 2008 at 2:09 am edit

Hi

I respect your opinion and faith; yet I don’t agree with you. In my opinion, Paul had contradictory concepts; one one hand he teaches that Jesus was an innocent person while on the other hand Paul’s theological philosophy is based on an accursed Jesus, which makes Jesus a wrong doer and disobedient person. I love Jesus and Mary; instead of believing mythically that Jesus was an accursed person, I would rather leave Paul and I would side with Jesus.

There is no harm in improving upon the cocepts propounded by Paul and make corrections in them to make them aligned with the simple concepts of Jesus based on OTBible, afterall Jesus and Mary were good Jews, a follower of Moses.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

All sins are forgivable – Established by Moses, Jesus and Muhammad

June 17, 2008

 

Victor
June 17, 2008 at 8:26 am

Ahmadi, thanks for your comments again. Could you look back over my post and answer the questions that I posed you?
Thanks!

paarsurrey
June 17, 2008 at 9:56 am

Quote from your Post:
One initial question for you though – you used the phrase “imaginary sins” in your post – do you propose that there is no such thing as sin?
__________________________

Hi Victor, my friend!

 

I don’t mean that there are/were no sins.

 

In my opinion the sins are forgiven by GodAllahYHWH when a sinner repents over his mistakes, asks forgiveness from GodAllahYHWH and resolves not to do it again. If God forgives the sins then it is as if no sins were committed altogether.

This is established from OTBible, Moses and Jesus. Quran also spports it and confirms it:

 

[39:54] Say, ‘O My servants who have sinned against their souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah, surely, Allah forgives all sins. Verily, He is Most forgiving, Ever Merciful;
[39:55] ‘And turn to your Lord, and submit yourselves to Him, before there comes unto you the punishment; for then you shall not be helped;
[39:56] And follow the best Teaching that has been revealed to you from your Lord, before the punishment comes upon you suddenly, while you perceive not.’
[39:57] Lest a soul should say, ‘O woe is me in that I neglected my duty in respect of Allah! Surely, I was among the scoffers.’
http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=39&verse=49

 

It was Paul who invented his theological philosophy on imaginary sins; which has nothing to do with OTBible or Moses, Jesus ,Quran and Muhammad.

 

I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.

 

Thanks

 

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim