Posts Tagged ‘Nicodemus’

Sinful Paul invented the story of Jesus’ physical ascension to skies

March 7, 2014

Please view paarsurrey comments on the blog “Is there a God?” for your valuable opinion, even if you differ.

“Welcome to atheists (and others)”

MAR 07, 2014 @ 12:28:48
@ unkleE:MAR 05, 2014 @ 01:10:45

“In this post I outlined how I try to approach topics like this. First I look at the historical evidence as determined by the best secular scholars then I form my opinions. Let’s do that here.”
Why ignore Jesus’ clear words of his core teachings that he quoted from the OT Bible; and it is the same as told by Moses?

Jesus a human being son of Mary who did not claim to be a literal and physical god or son of god; yes there is historicity of such a person; but if one looks for a Jesus a literal/physical god or son of god; there is no historicity of such a person.

The sinful Paul who was a confirmed enemy of Jesus and his disciples; when he got sure that Jesus son of Mary a human being had not died on the Cross and after treatment in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea by the physician Nicodemus he had made good his escape and went out of Judea and the Roman Empire; Paul thought of a novel plan to take revenge from Jesus.
He exploited the sentiments of Jesus’ followers who remained behind whom Jesus had not informed of his plans as he had to move out secretly lest he is again arrested and persecuted.

Paul invented the story that Jesus had died on the Cross but resurrected from the dead and has ascended to skies and appointed Paul as his successor; thus on the one hand Paul invented a new religion in the name of “Christ” a misnomer called Christianity and on the other hand he avenged his animosity towards Jesus by killing Jesus’ core teachings; of course with the collaboration of the Church.

MAR 07, 2014 @ 20:29:28
@MyGoatyBeard :MAR 07, 2014 @ 14:43:30

“Paarsurrey. I agree there is only one God and it is only him that we should worship. It is sinful to worship anybody else. There are not three Gods – so I agree with you in that.” Unquote

Thanks for your appreciation; in fact by this you agree with Jesus , Moses and all the prophets as confirmed by Jesus in his core teachings.


Why a large boulder was placed on the entrance of Jesus’ tomb?

February 15, 2014

My comments at blog:“Leading Malaysian Neocon”: topic “The Locked Tomb Mystery – Whodunit?”: link

paarsurrey Says:
February 16, 14 at 5:31 am
@ Scott Thong
@Simon Thong
I have noted some points in the opening paragraph of your post; and I will discuss them one by one.

A large boulder was put on the entrance of the tomb so that some wild animals should not kill Jesus while unconscious or asleep in the tomb

Scott Thong wrote:
1. “First, a large boulder had been placed at the entrance of the tomb. “

Paarsurrey says:

A large boulder was placed as Jesus was inside the tomb and was in unconscious conditions due to the injuries inflicted on him on the cross, though he was being treated by Nicodemus, a physician, with the ointment prepared by him from a large and unusual quantity of herbs Aloe and Myrrh, healing weeds, as mentioned in the Bible; nevertheless; I think, the boulder was placed at the entrance of the tomb at night; so that some wild animals like dogs or jackals etc don’t endanger life of Jesus in the tomb whether unconscious or after treatment in his sound sleep.

I appreciate the efforts of disciples of Jesus while they were busy doing their utmost to save the injured Jesus by his treatment in the tomb of Armathea.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the Promised Messiah- Second Coming of Jesus, mentions about this stone or boulder in the book “Jesus in India” thus:

“Jesus compared his three days’ stay in the tomb to the three days of Jonah in the belly of the whale. This only shows that just as Jonah remained alive for three days in the belly of the whale, so did Jesus remain alive for three days in the tomb. The Jewish tombs of those days were not like the tombs of to-day; they were roomy and had an opening on one side, which was covered with a big stone. And, presently, I shall prove in due course that Jesus’ tomb which has been recently discovered in Srinagar in Kashmir is of the same type as the one in which Jesus was placed in a state of swoon.”

Value of myrrh and aloe brought by Nicodemus

June 10, 2013

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah (AS) has written a useful chapter on the above; I give here q  passage from his book “Jesus in India”.

The Promised Messiah says:


“A piece of evidence of great value with regard to the escape of Jesus from the Cross, which no one can help admitting, is a medical preparation known as Marham-i-Isa or the ‘Ointment of Jesus’ recorded in hundreds of medical books. Some of these books were compiled by Christians, some by Magians or Jews, some by Muslims. Most of them are very old.

Investigations show that in the beginning the preparation came to be known as an oral tradition among hundreds of thousands of people. Then they recorded it. At first, in the very time of Jesus, a little after the event of the Cross, a pharmaceutical work was compiled in Latin, in which there was a mention of this preparation along with the statement that the preparation had been prepared for the wounds of Jesus.

Next, this work was translated into several languages, until, in the time of Mamun-al-Rashid, it was translated into Arabic. It is, moreover, a strange result of divine intervention that eminent physicians of all religions — Christian, Jew, Magian, or Muslim — have all mentioned this preparation in their books, and have stated that it was prepared for Jesus by the disciples. A study of books on pharmacology shows that this preparation is very useful in cases of injuries due to blows or falls, arresting immediately the flow of blood; and as it also contains ‘myrrh’ the wound remains aseptic. The ointment is also useful in plague; it is good for boils and ulcers of all kinds.

It is, however, not clear whether the ointment was prepared, as a result of divine revelation, by Jesus himself after he had undergone the suffering of the Cross, or, that it was prepared after consultation with some physician. Some of its ingredients are like specifics; especially ‘myrrh’ which is mentioned also in the Torah. In any case, the wounds of Jesus healed up in a few days by the use of this ointment. Within three days he recovered sufficiently to be able to march seventy miles on foot from Jerusalem to Galilee.

Hence, regarding the efficacy of this preparation it is enough to say that while Jesus healed others, this preparation healed Jesus! The Books which record this fact number more than one thousand. To mention them all would be too long. As, moreover, the prescription is a famous one among the Yunani (i.e., those versed in ancient Greek medicine) physicians, I do not see any need to state the titles of all these books: I set down below the titles of only a few which are available here.


List of books containing a mention of Marham-i-Isa,
and a statement that the ointment was prepared for
Jesus, i.e., for the wounds on his body click the above link to see the list and the rest of the write up.

Value of myrrh and aloe brought by Nicodemus

June 10, 2013

I give here a write-up written on the website <> for the benefit of the viewers of this blog:


“Aloe and Myrrh

Modern day analysis on the most ancient of herbs. Known for being applied to Jesus once in the tomb and assumed to be part of an embalming process, what role do these herbs play in the world today?

Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs.” John 19:38-40

For thousands of years the herbs Aloe and Myrrh have held special relevance in the Christian world. Even modern day encyclopaedias mention the events of the Crucifixion of Jesus in their analysis of the herbs. These herbs are mentioned as being used in the burial of Jesus, for instance we find an entry for Myrrh stating:

“Myrrh is a constituent of perfumes and incense, and was highly prized in ancient times. Myrrh was one of the gifts of the Magi to the baby Jesus in the story told in the Gospel of Matthew. Myrrh was used as an incense in funerals and cremations, a fact alluded to in the Christmas carol We Three Kings”( – online encyclopedia)

Other sources outline how Aloe was thought to have been used during the embalming process of the Egyptians 1 What becomes interesting, however, is what is actually said about the medicinal properties of the herb. It is often cited that one of its famous occurrences is in the Gospel of John during the burial of Christ and this event may have shaped people’s perceived view of its uses. Upon examination of its documented properties all sources talk about its remarkable healing properties. It is accepted that even the Greeks and Romans as early as 300BC were aware of the healing properties of aloes:

“Aristotle was aware that the healing properties of aloe would be invaluable to soldiers wounded in battle and advised his student Alexander III (“the Great”) to conquer all lands that grew it, especially the island of Socotra off the coast of eastern Africa… Pedanius Dioscorides, a physician in the Roman army, mentioned medicinal aloes in his encyclopedic Greek herbal De Materia Medica (Approximately around 75 BC). ” 2

“The healing benefits of aloe were recognized in the ancient Indian, Chinese, Greek, and Roman civilizations. It is traditionally used to heal wounds, relieve itching and swelling, and is known for its anti-inflammatory and antibacterial properties.” 3

Myrrh also is a herb that although often linked to Jesus and his burial was clearly recognised at the time as a healing agent. Aloe is talked about as having properties that help wounds heal and aid the reformation of skin, where as Myrrh is used more for anti inflammatory and anti bacterial reasons:

“In the past myrrh was used by many cultures for religious ceremonies and as a healing agent. It was mentioned in the Bible as a gift at the birth of Christ. The Egyptians believed in its healing powers: they burned it every day as part of their worshipping rituals. In the Greek culture when soldiers went to battle is was an essential part of their combat gear because of myrrhs extremely high antiseptic and anti-inflammatory properties. It was used to clean wounds and to prevent infection. It was also used to prevent the spread of gangrene in already infected parts of the body. ” 4


Were the herbs not used for embalming the body of Jesus? From the sources seen so far the idea of embalming using aloe has only surfaced in the Egyptian world. It is thought that pharaohs were buried along with aloes. Was Jesus being embalmed? The problem occurs when Jewish burial practices are examined. Jewish burial involved simply washing the body and burying it, there was no embalming. For a body to be embalmed incisions needed to be made. This was understood by the people of the time, and for Jews to make such incisions would not be acceptable. Upon the advent of the passing away of Judah, one of the ancestors of modern day Jews, he is recorded as having stated:

“I die this day at the age of one hundred and nineteen years before your eyes. None shall bury me in a costly garment, nor shall ye cut my body to embalm it, but ye shall carry me to Hebron.” Having spoken these words, Judah sank into death.5

It seems unlikely that the aloes present were for embalming, also having myrrh there also in large quantities was not consistent with this hypothesis. If the viewpoint is taken that Jesus could possibly have still been alive at this point, and that Joseph of Arimithea and Nicodemus who were tending to him had knowledge of herbs, then the possible role of these herbs becomes clear.

Could they have been used to treat Jesus and to help him recover from his ordeal?

Modern Day Use

Today there is an increasing amount of usage of Aloes in products. Gillette series shaving foam now contains what the can calls “Soothing Aloes”, and a wide range of aloe-based creams and gels are available mainly for healing of the skin 6.

Perhaps the most definitive answer on the properties of aloes comes from a book written by medical experts. “Aloes: The Genus Aloe (Medicinal & Aromatic Plants S. – Industrial Profiles)” edited by Tom Reynolds represents the most details study yet in to this fascinating herb. Detailed analysis of the herb is presented and an entire part is devoted to exploring “therapeutic activity and includes chapters on aloe’s role in wound healing, skin cancer, and the immune system.7

Diane Gage has chosen to title her book on the subject “Aloe Vera: Nature’s Soothing Healer” and her text discusses the biological properties of aloe vera, explaining its power to heal the human body, and traces the ways the plant has been used throughout history.


Aloe and Myrrh appear to be ideal herbs for treating someone who had suffered an ordeal such as crucifixion. Their reported presence at the crucifixion does arouse some suspicion as to the events that followed Jesus’ removal from the cross.

Were they used simply for embalming or fragrant use as is traditionally understood, or were their excellent healing and antiseptic properties employed instead to help heal Jesus’ wounds and to aid his recovery from an ordeal he survived?”


Why did Matthew and others, so called disciples, fail to arrange burial bath and burial rituals of Jesus?

June 25, 2009

Agoerner says:

By saying that He was GREATER than Jonah, Jesus was teaching that what would happen to Him would be even greater than what happened to Jonah. Jesus has conquered death and no one else has! His grave is empty.

There is something else we need to keep in mind. Both Jesus and Jonah preached the message of repentance. Nineveh preached “40 days and Nineveh will be destroyed.” Jesus also preached the message of repentance to the Jews. Nineveh repented at Jonah’s preaching and therefore wasn’t destroyed. Jerusalem did not repent at Jesus’ preaching and was destroyed in 70 AD (almost 40 years after Jesus was crucified). Because the Jews did not repent, Jonah’s judgment fell upon the Jews.

To summarize, Jesus was teaching that what would happen to Him would be even greater than what happened to Jonah. Jesus would be crucified by the unbelieving Jews, He would rise again from the dead and as proof of His kingship He would judge Jerusalem for her unbelief. Jesus’ judgment of Jerusalem happened about 40 years after He was crucified, just as He said.

These great and enduring signs Jesus gave to the Jews of His day are also signs for us today. Jesus has conquered death and no one else has! His grave is empty. Because Jesus has been raised from the dead, we can have assurance of salvation.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend agoerner

I think Matthew did not understand Jesus correctly or his writings have been changed and hence he was not among those who helped Jesus survive a cursed death of Cross.

Nicodemus and Joseph Armathea and other knew the exact status of Jesus andh hence they hurriedly took him to a spacious and airy tomb for the treatment.

Jesus trusted friends did not abondom him. If sinful Matthew deserted Jesus and fled away; that shows that he was not faithful to Jesus and hence his testimony is good for nothing.

If Jesus would have died then they would have arranged for a funeral bath and other funeral rites would have been performed. Why did Matthew and others so called disciples not arrange for these things?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Moses and his mother.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

It is reasonable to deduce from the Bible; in order to put an end to the life of a crucified person it was the practice in Jesus’ time to keep such a person on the Cross for several days; not a matter of hours

May 21, 2009


7. Jesus was placed in this house at the suggestion of Pilate.

Where is the Gospel support for this?

Paarsurrey says:

I think it should have be clear to you that we Muslims believe that Jesus did receive Word of Revelation from God Allah YHWH of which a lot has been truthfully recorded by God Allah YHWH. Jesus did not himself write or dictate any Word of God.

Jesus did not appoint anybody as his attorney, as you very well know, to write anything to bind Jesus. Jesus could bind others; but he was not bound by them.

When Jesus went to India, in his absence as you know, many anonymous gospels surfaced (about sixty of them) with different life accounts of Jesus written without any authority or consent from Jesus. Later Church selected at random four from them and named them Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, may or may not have been written by them altogether.

Our Christian friends think they, the scribes, are trustworthy. How could these be trustworthy when Jesus or Mary did not entrust them to write anything about them to start with?

I think it is skeptical that the gospel scribes, as is very much mentioned in them, all fled away from the scene of Cross, leaving Jesus crying alone on the Cross. Only Mary the mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, Nicodemus and Joseph Arimathea who attended to Jesus on the cross and later in the tomb when Jesus was laid there in a near-dead condition, could have written something which if protected and secured could have been creditable; as these people remained steadfast to Jesus and his cause and mission.

The promised Messiah as he quoted from them; he did only for investigation purposes, to reach the truth behind the events and writings of the scribes and to bring out the truth hidden there, with the reasonable deduction and cross-examination of the text and the context as afforded by the events.

I think you would like to read more about Pilate in some preceding passage/s from the one I had quoted earlier from Jesus and India written by the Promised Messiah 1835-1908:

Among the testimonies of the gospels is the verse, ‘The Jews, therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the Cross on the Sabbath day (for that Sabbath day was an high day), besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Then came the soldiers and broke the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was dead already they broke not his legs: but one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water’.13

These verses clearly show that in order to put an end to the life of a crucified person it was the practice in those days to keep him on the Cross for several days, and then to break his legs, but the legs of Jesus were purposely not broken, and he was taken down alive from the Cross, like the two thieves.

That was the reason why there came out blood when his side was pierced. The blood however, conceals after death. And, here, it appears also that all this was the result of a conspiracy.

Pilate was a God-fearing and a good-hearted man; he could not openly show favour to Jesus for fear of the Caesar; for the Jews had declared Jesus a rebel.

All the same, Pilate was lucky to have seen Jesus but the Caesar was not so fortunate; the former not only saw Jesus but also showed him a great favour — he did not desire that Jesus should suffer crucifixion.

The gospels point out clearly that Pilate had several times resolved to let Jesus go, but the Jews said that if he would let him go he would be disloyal to Caesar; they also said that Jesus was a rebel who wished to be king.14 And the dream which Pilate’s wife had, further prompted the freeing of Jesus; otherwise, Pilate and his wife themselves would have been exposed to disaster.

But, as the Jews were a mischievous people, ready even secretly to inform the Caesar of Pilate’s action, Pilate made use of a device to rescue Jesus: first, he fixed Friday for the crucifixion, only a few hours before sunset, and the night of the Great Sabbath was about to fall. Pilate knew very well that the Jews, in accordance with the commandments of their law, could keep Jesus on the Cross only till the evening, and after that it was unlawful to keep anybody on the Cross.

Accordingly, it all happened in this very manner; and Jesus was taken down from the Cross before it was evening.

So, it is a reasonable conclusion drawn from the events by the Promised Messiah 1835-1908, which Pilate secretly wanted to save Jesus’ life; he did not want to antagonize the Jews, yet he maneuvered well to save Jesus’ life. I think it is usual and reasonable with the investigations.

You may or may not accept his arguments, and remain sticking to your or your parents’ faith; there is no compulsion.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

THE CRUCIFIXION by An Eyewitness

December 26, 2008

With the courtesy of:

Now it so happened that after the earthquake, and many of the people had gone away, Joseph and Nicodemus arrived at the cross. They were informed of the death of the crucified, in the garden of our Brethren, not far from Calvary.

Although they loudly lamented his fate, it nevertheless appeared strange to them that Jesus, having hung less than seven hours, should already be dead. They could not believe it, and hastily went up to the place. There they found John alone, he having determined to see what became of the beloved body.

Joseph and Nicodemus examined the body of Jesus, and Nicodemus, greatly moved, drew Joseph aside and said to him: “As sure as is my knowledge of life and nature, so sure is it possible to save him.”

But Joseph did not understand him, and he admonished us that we would not tell John of what we had heard. Indeed, it was a secret, which was to save our Brother from death.
Nicodemus shouted: “We must immediately have the body with its bones unbroken, because he may still be saved”; then, realizing his want of caution, he continued in a whisper: “saved from being infamously buried.”

He persuaded Joseph to disregard his own interest, that he might save their friend by going immediately to Pilatus, and prevailing upon him to permit them to take Jesus’ body from the cross that very night and put it in the sepulchre, hewn in the rock close by, and which belonged to Joseph.

I, understanding what he meant, remained with John to watch the cross and prevent the soldiers from breaking the bones of Jesus.
No corpse is allowed to remain on the cross over night, and the next day being Sunday, they would not take him down and bury him early.

The Jewish council had already demanded of Pilate an order to the soldiers to break the bones of the crucified, that they might be buried.

Soon after Joseph and Nicodemus had departed, each one on his sacred mission, a messenger arrived bringing the order to the Centurion to take down the corpses and bury them. I myself was greatly agitated by this information, for I knew if he were not handled with great care he could not be saved, and still less if his bones were to be broken.

Even John was dismayed, though not from fear of the plans being frustrated, for of these he did not know. But he was deeply grieved at the thought of seeing the body of his friend mutilated. For John believed that Jesus was dead.

As the messenger arrived, I hastened to him, thinking and hoping that Joseph already might have seen Pilate, a thing of which there in reality was no possibility.

“Does Pilate send you?” I asked of him.
And he answered, “I come not from Pilate, but from his secretary, who acts for the governor in such unimportant matters.”

The Centurion observing my anxiety, looked at me, and in the manner of a friend, I said to him: “You have seen that this man that is crucified is an uncommon man. Do not maltreat him, for a rich man among the people is now with Pilate to offer him money for the corpse, that he may give it a decent burial.”

My dear Brethren, I must here inform you that Pilate often did sell the bodies of the crucified to their friends that they might thus bury them.
And the Centurion was friendly to me, inasmuch as he had conceived from the events that Jesus was an innocent man. And therefore, when the two thieves were beaten by the soldiers with heavy clubs and their bones broken, the Centurion went past the cross of Jesus, saying to the soldiers: “Do not break his bones, for he is dead.”

And a man was seen rapidly approaching along the road from the castle of Antonia to Calvary. He advanced to the Centurion and brought to him the order that he should quickly come to Pilate.
The Centurion then questioned the messenger to learn what Pilate wanted of him at so late an hour of the night. The messenger answered that Pilate desired to know if Jesus was indeed dead.

“So he is”, said the Centurion, “therefore we have not broken his bones.”

To be more sure of it, one of the soldiers stuck a spear into the body in such a manner that it passed over the hip and into the side. The body showed no convulsions, and this was taken as a sure sign that he was actually dead; and he hurried and went away to make his report.

But from the insignificant wound flowed blood and water, at which John wondered and my own hope revived. For even John knew, from the knowledge of our Brotherhood that from a wound in a dead body flows nothing but a few drops of thickened blood; but now there flowed both water and blood.

I was deeply anxious that Joseph and Nicodemus should return. At last some Galilean women were seen approaching on their return from Bethania, whither they had brought Mary, the mother of Jesus, in the care of the Essene friends.

And among the women was also Mary, the sister of Lazarus, who had loved Jesus and she wept loudly. But before she could pour out her grief and while John was gazing intently at the wound in Jesus’ side, heeding naught else, Joseph and Nicodemus returned in great haste. Joseph through his dignity had moved Pilate, and Pilate, having information as to the death of the crucified, gave the body to Joseph, and without taking pay therefore.

For Pilate had a great reverence for Joseph, and secretly repented of the execution. When Nicodemus saw the wound, flowing with water and blood, his eyes were animated with new hope, and he spoke encouragingly, foreseeing what was to happen.
I love Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Nicodemus


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

What is the significance of “Nicodemus (bringing) 75 lbs aloe and myrrh”?

November 11, 2008

Paarsurrey says: has informed me that someone referred my blog via Search Engine Terms and desired of me to provide the information as to what is the significance of “Nicodemus (bringing) 75 lbs aloe and myrrh”when Jesus was laid in the Armithea’s tomb after the event of Crucifixion.

I preferred to use internet search engine for ( nicodemus 75 lbs aloe and myrrh).

From the entries which came to surface, I have selected some to present before the readers of this blog:

Research Results

Nine Articles by Luis Silva – Jesus
… and thorax during violent treatment (75 … They refer to the 100 lb. Of aromatic substances which Nicodemus procured (John 19 … The Gospels mention that an aloe and myrrh was used.
o • Cached page

Newsvine – Yoga at school causes stress among some
Nicodemus brought 75 lbs of aloes and myrrh to Jesus’s tomb. What was this for? It wasn’t for embalming, Jewish tradition forbids embalming. Aloe is one of the best natural …
o • Cached page

The Society of Christ and Magazine
… close to six feet long (1,8 m) and weighed about 66 lb … us that in this Joseph of Arimathea was aided by Nicodemus, who brought with him about one hundred pounds of myrrh and aloe.
• Cached page

I clicked the second item of research: Newsvine – Yoga at school causes stress among some , the discussion took a turn and the item of our research became the issue:


What makes you think Jesus didn’t do yoga? What makes you think “god” is so limited as to be threatened by another way of approaching spirituality? And, what makes you think that the Christian doctrine of following the son to the father so as to be one with him is not similar to extinguishing the ego self into the Brahman state?
Why are fundamentalists so literal? I mean, really, what would Jesus think of such narrow mindedness and intolerance?


#29 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 11:36 AM EDT


Why are fundamentalists so literal?

I would suspect that there is something very tribal or “Us vs. “Them” for some people, both from the way they have been raised, and perhaps some biological tendencies as well. You see this territorialness in other animal species, not just among us humans. Also, note that some people love new ideas and concepts and experiment with alternatives, and other people such things make them fearful, creaqte what psychology calls “cognitive dissonance,” and they actively reject them. Maybe something biochemical, like variations in stimulus or pain thresholds?
#29.1 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 12:32 PM EDT


Yeah you’d think they’d be more understanding considering Jesus survived the crucifixion and travelled to Kashmir. Srinagar is a mainly hindu and buddhist city so I’m sure he was exposed to plenty of yoga before he died.
#29.2 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 3:09 PM EDT


I think you should check your facts
#29.3 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 5:19 PM EDT


Against what O’ Master of Facts?
#29.4 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 5:21 PM EDT


The Bible, perhaps?
#29.5 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 5:43 PM EDT


So that’s the big book O’ facts?
I like the fact that the bible says Jesus died only six hours after being on the cross. For death to occur this quickly the legs must be broken causing the victim to asphyxiate. Jesus never had his legs broken. No, Jesus “died” immediatly after drinking from a sponge filled with “vinegar”. Now, medicine in those days wasn’t nearly as advanced as it is today, but they knew about the anesthetic qualities of plants such as opium poppies and belladonna. Can you think of a better way to raise your savior from the dead than knocking him out and having him wake up again? Nicodemus brought 75 lbs of aloes and myrrh to Jesus’s tomb. What was this for? It wasn’t for embalming, Jewish tradition forbids embalming. Aloe is one of the best natural treatments to heal wounds. Why would you want to heal a dead body?
#29.6 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 6:15 PM EDT


But Jesus didn’t follow Jewish tradition. He worked on the Sabbath and constantly shot down the teachings of the Scribes and Pharisees. These people thought of Jesus as a king, and what better way to honor a beloved, murdered king than to clean and treat his wounds, and yes, embalm him? Also, there’s no mention of how long after drinking the vinegar he died. The vinegar was given to Jesus to drink by the soldiers that crucified him, to mock his thirst, not by his followers. And, to make sure he was dead, the soldiers who broke the legs of the two thieves crucified next to Jesus, when they saw that he wasn’t moving, put a spear through his side, so if he was faking he wouldn’t live. Even if he was just unconcious, a stab wound to the side, even a fairly shallow one (which I’m sure this one wasn’t) would most likely have punctured any number of vital organs, and he would have either bled out or died of sepsis during the three days he was in the tomb.
Nice theories, but they don’t really work out, now do they?
That said, I don’t think that Jesus or God would ever have a problem with Yoga, if anything Jesus taught tolerance.
#29.7 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 6:31 PM EDT


That the best you’ve got? Longinus the centurion who supervised the crucifixion of Jesus became a bishop in the early church according to the Acta Pilati. What a sweet deal, I wonder how he worked that one out? The original Greek word for the thrust by the soldier is nyssein. That word does not suggest a forceful thrust. The word means a light scratch, or a light puncture of the skin. It was a test for a reaction, not to ensure death. One of the best natural ways to prevent sepsis in a superficial wound is to treat it with aloe. Myrrh is also antiinflamitory and antiseptic. The soldiers did not give Jesus the vinegar people from the crowd around him did.
#29.8 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 7:09 PM EDT


John 19:40 “They took the body of Jesus and wrapped it in linen cloths along with spices, according to the burial custom of the Jews.”
The burial customs of the Jews have not changed in 3500 years. The body is not to be touched except by giving it a ritual bath called a tahara, standing for purity and then the body is put in the ground in the quickest most simple fashion available with only traditional burial shrouds.
#29.9 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 7:28 PM EDT

The points that you are arguing seem very reminiscent of the 1965 book “The Passover Plot” by Hugh Schonfield.
That being said, there really seems to be little actual evidence one way or the other after two thousand years.
Some of the apocryphal suggestions that Jesus traveled into India and studied mystic traditions there are found in the 1908 book “The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ” Again, rather thin on evidence, I am afraid.
#29.10 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 7:31 PM EDT

That’s why arguments like this are so fun. With so little credible evidence on either side, I can match BS point for point. Watch:

Jesus is buried is a tomb called Rauzabal in the city of Srinagar. Local tradition states that the entombed was a prophet of Ahle-Kitab, or People of the Book, and his name was Isa – the Quranic name for Jesus. The prophet Yuz Asaf came to Kashmir from the West (Holy Land) in the reign of Raja Gopdatta (c 1st century A.D) according to the ancient official documents held by the current custodian of the tomb.
One book, Bhavishya Maha Purana (written in Sanskrit) contains an account of a king of India, Salivahana meeting “Isa-Masiha” (Jesus the Messiah)- a religious personage of fair complexion who was a foreigner.
“The king asked the holy man who he was. The other replied: ‘I am called a son of God, born of a virgin, minister of the non-believers, relentless in search of the truth.”
“..and I was called Isa-Masiha”
#29.11 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 7:59 PM EDT

That’s why arguments like this are so fun. With so little credible evidence on either side, I can match BS point for point.
That’s fine, but would you do us the favor or either referring to the source or providing a link? I find arguing to be much more stimulating if there is a reference. You never know where that will lead later!
#29.12 – Sat Oct 4, 2008 11:37 PM EDT

Note. For more detail on the subject, please view my following posts:

Value of myrrh and aloe brought by Nicodemus