Welcome in the forum, please. Magenta ^. Does one mean from God the person of G-d or Jesus son of Mary, please? Joseph Smith , I get for one, was appointed messenger by Jesus son of Mary and not by G-d whom Jesus s/o Mary used to worship and pray and addressed as God-the-Father, please. Right friend, please?
Regards
ooooooooo
Ixxxxxxxx said:
God does exist, you can prove it to yourself by looking in the mirror. Then go outside and look for other evidences. Look for things that could not have just happened by accident. It is all around you. It is especially evident in people that you love, if you have any people that you love you can look at them and see God there. Then, to finalize, ask God every day to show you that He exists until you get your answer from Him, it may take a while, well it did for me anyway, but He will answer you probably when you are not even thinking about your inquiry to Him. Be patient, wait for His answer, it will amaze you and then YOU will KNOW.
Re: Are mormons christian?
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmykids
Do they call themselves Christian?
Hi
For sure they call themselves Christians and nobody legally, morally and rationally deny that right of expressing their faith as they believe, if there is any free will there.
They are not Muslims, definitely; first they don’t say that. Secondly the following litmus test to verify a Christian from a Muslim also proves that.
There is not a single Muslim in the world who believes that Jesus died on Cross, it is so clearly mentioned in Quran. So, according to Muslims Jesus never needed to be resurrected from the dead as he never died on Cross in the first place. Hence Jesus was never God as per Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
There is not a single Christian, in my knowledge, who does not believe that Jesus died a cursed death on Cross for the sinful Christians; later as per the Christian faith Jesus got resurrected to life from the dead, and hence he was God and he sat on the right hand of God, assuming all-power. This is, to me, the superstitious building blocks of Christian faith which the Christians have been made to believe by Paul in Rome.
The Mormons believe the later faith, so they are Christian for all practical purposes according to the litmus test to know a Christian from a Muslim or a Muslim from a Christians.
[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him – they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.*
and the reason they did not break his legs ?
John 19:36
These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
Now if you spent as much time learning about the real Islam (ahmediya’s are not considered Muslims after all) as you do trying to discredit Christianity, you might be better served.
paarsurrey Says:
April 8, 2010 at 10:29 am
Hi friend wudjab
Well my friend; “Mormons” and “JWs”- the only true Christians, do consider the Catholics and Protestants as heretics. Are you a Mormon or a JW? Please mention so that we may proceed further in the discussion.
Paul spoiled Jesus’ true teachings to avenge his obvious enmity
hvtbintl69 Says:
I understand your beliefs but what are they based upon? The evidence? Of course Mary/Jesus they never celebrated Easter. Jesus was the originator.
There is no evidence that Jesus survived the cross nor is there any evidence that he died in Kashmir years later. Nothing in archaeology or scripture verifies it.
Jesus was dead on the cross, his friends put him into the tomb due to the oncoming Sabbath not any kind of conspiracy with the Romans. No removal occurred.
Thanks
paarsurrey Says:
Hi friend hvtbintl69
If Jesus would have been the originator of the Easter, the annual feast of the Christians; he must have celebrated it himself. In fact Jesus was not founder of the “Christianity”; it was Paul who founded “Christianity”:
1. Paul only used Christ’s name as a scapegoat
2. to spread his own (Paul’s) Theology invented at Rome
3. and also to take revenge from Jesus who had escaped death on Cross
4. by spoiling Jesus’ true teachings
5. and who (Jesus) had gone out of the reach of Paul who was a dead enemy of Jesus and his friends.
Jesus had nothing to do with Christianity of Paul and the Church.
I have given numerous proofs to that effect in my posts in my blog; you or other Christians of 32000+ denominations are welcome to refute them if you like, with your reasonable, rational and logical argument. I don’t think Christians could refute them. It is an inter-faith discussion blog; everybody is welcome to join the discussions opened by me in my posts. I respect all the 32000+ denominations of the Christians. Even JWs or Mormons who declare to be the only true Christians are welcome here. Everybody is invited to join the discussion.
paars, what do you mean by “Catholic Protestants”?
Manfred wrote:
Yes, that did make me laugh when I saw that…
Maybe is means somebody sort halfway between their respective positions, like Anglicans, perhaps? The children of a Christian mixed marriage?
If he simply meant both all Catholics and Protestants, why did he not say “Christians” instead?
Also, Mr Preet, I don’t think paarsurrey is remotely interested in the concept of trinity, he just posted his stuff here to make fun of it. He neither understands what is means nor wants to know. But somehow making strawman cases against it makes him feel good I think. Why, I have no idea. Why does he not take a really hard look at his “Jesus taken off the cross and emigrated to India” belief instead? Now that is so unbelievably silly, it really does not deserve consideration by a sane human being.
manfred wrote:
If he simply meant both all Catholics and Protestants, why did he not say “Christians” instead?
Paarsurrey says:
Hi friend manfred
The JWs and the Mormons claim that they are the only true Christians; hence I mention every follower of Paul (not of Jesus definitely) by the denomination he belongs to.
Paarsurrey said:
“I respect your religion; but I have my own free opinion. I think it to be too cruel for a father (God) to sacrifice/kill his beloved one (son) for others imaginary sins.”
Joel said:
If this were done against the will of Christ, then I would agree that it would be cruel. However, Jesus is part of the Godhead (we’ll get to that), thus as being God He planned on sacrificing Himself from before He even created the world, and as being a person in the Godhead, He willingly went to the cross.
Paarsurrey says
:
Hi friend Joel
I ask you a little question; I think you don’t mind. Are you married and have sons and daughter?
I suppose you are married and have a beautiful little baby girl. If she says; papa I am willing, just kill me. Will you kill her? If you kill her; won’t it be a cruel act? I think, it will be a cruel act; so even your own Catholic church will declare it to be cruel.
You will need a very cruel heart to perform this act.
Sorry, it is as simple as that. I think even the Catholics/Protestants/JWs/Mormon viewers of your blog will agree with me on this point.
I love Jesus and Mary
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
P.S.
I jut now posted these comments on your blog; but they did not get through and got published. Please paste them onto your blog. Thanks
“Jesus escaped death on the Cross, he never got alive from the dead, he never ascended to heaven, rather Jesus migrated to India, and he died naturally and peacefuly at the age of about 120 years in India.”
Markparker1 says:
This is not taught in the Old testament, New testament or Book of Mormon or any other Christian scripture, it’s actually opposite to what they testify, the twelve Apostles were eye witnesses, to Christs ressurrection, so were a large group of people who’s testimonies are in the Book of Mormon, and finally Joseph and other LDS apostles and Prophets were also eye witnesses. On top of that the Apostles taught they were witnesses and so too were the Holy Ghost.
Paarsurrey says:
It is well known that the Gospels and other book of the Bible were written with a spcific purpose; not as a statement of facts.
Now; you say that “LDS apostles and Prophets were also eye witnesses”; one wonders as to what sort of eye-witnesses were they; of the event of crucifixion. I think it is just another confirmation that there were factually no witnesses of the event who had witnessed and wrote their testimony.
I think they won’t have the courage to stand on a witnesses stand and face the cross-examination, in a real court of Law.
The LDS, Joseph Smith did not have a converse with God Allah YHWH as one could understand clearly from his First Vision. He was confused and inundated by his own thoughts; when he heard somebody say here is my son without recognition; he assumed that the speaker was God Allah YHWH and the son was Jesus. Such a fragile witnessing!
I respect your faith; you have the right to believe anything you think fit for your believing, there is no compulsion.
There are quite a few instances of visions where more than just Joseph were present, this is from april 1836:
Paarsurrey says:
Hi friend markparker1
Could you please recall of a Converse/Revelation in which more than one person participated and talked with God Allah YHWH jointly; from Moses from Jesus and other Messengers Prophets mentioned in the Old Testament or Torah.
Parr, you do not seem familiar with the testimony of Joseph Smith, there are about 5 or more accounts he gave of just his first vision, some have details that others don’t, some are expressed a different way,
Paarsurrey says:
Please provide all the accounts given by Joseph Smith of his first vision. Why he expressed differently for the first vision?
I’m also mainly in agreement with the Rev. There is way too much imbeded testimony in the Old Testament about Christ, plus confimation in the New Testament and Book of Mormon with it’s powerful witnesses and the witness of the Holy Ghost.
Paarsurrey says:
Hi friend markparker1
I think I cannot buy that and also Rev. won’t agree with you that Book of Mormon had anything to do with Jesus.
I can understand that Jesus was unders persecution from the Jews; who were after him to kill him on the Cross to prove that he was not truthful Messenger Prophets of God Allah YHWH; nevetheless Jesus was an upright man. I don’t think that it is a tenable excuse and it favours Jesus that he did not mention for forgot to mention in the Old Testament of his coming by name; and only left clues that Jews never accepted.
One can search the Old Testaments with a powerful microscope but one would fail to find Jesus’ name in the Old Testament.
What was Jesus, god of Bible afraid of by not mentioning his name clearly? Were there Jews in the heaven to persecute him and kill him there?
I take it as a wishful thinking of the Christians to find Jesus of Bible, a god, in the Old Testament.
As far as the appointment of Messengers/ Prophets/ is concerned; as explained earlier it is the sole discretion of God Allah YHWH; and it was not in place for Paul and Joseph Smith.
Even Jesus did not appoint Paul; he never mentioned to the twelve that after crucifixion; Paul, who was hitherto an enemy of Jesus, would convert and become his successor/epitle/Apostel.
The Christians should side with Jesus instead of siding with Paul and Joseph Smith.
I quote here from Bible as to how Moses met with God Allah YHWH and the dialogue that took place :
2 And the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he saw that the bush was on fire and was not burnt. 3 And Moses said: I will go and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the Lord saw that he went forward to see, he called to him out of the midst of the bush, and said: Moses, Moses. And he answered: Here I am. 5 And he said: Come not nigh hither, put off the shoes from thy feet: for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.6 And he said: I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Exodus 3:2-6
The personage clearly tells his antecedents and gives signs to Moses; and Moses asks very pertinent questions and is answered by God Allah YHWH.
Moese was a truthful Messenger of God Allah YHWH and died a natural death.
There is no such clarity in the visions of Paul and Joseph Smith; their visions are foggy and without any clarity; they were self appointed and hence were killed in terms of Deuteronomy.
I respect your faith.
I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.
paarsurrey 