Posts Tagged ‘logical’

Quran: verses in the context must be referred for clear understanding

February 1, 2014

I have written comment on the “Random thoughts” blog at the topic “Knowing the mind of god”

paarsurrey says:
February 2, 2014 at 02:41

Ron: Jan 30, 7:38 am
Quote,“In another part of the Qur’an, we read:
*{Certainly, Allah has cursed the unbelievers and prepared for them a blazing fire to dwell therein forever, they shall find neither protector nor helper. On the day when their faces are turned about in the fire, they shall say, “Would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!”}* (Al-Ahzab 33: 64-66)” Unquote

Paarsurrey wrote:

Here again you have understood the verse incorrectly; the non-believers in general have not been addressed. The Jews and other non-Muslims in Medina who were under a treaty with the Muslims not to have any links with the Meccans as they were under war with the Muslims; they were addressed in these verses specifically.

[33:61] If the hypocrites, and those in whose heart is a disease, and those who cause agitation in the city, desist not, We shall surely give thee authority over them; then they will not dwell therein as thy neighbours, save for a little while.
[33:62] Then they will be accursed. Wherever they are found, they will be seized, and cut into pieces.
[33:63] Such has been the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away before, and thou wilt never find a change in the way of Allah.
[33:64] Men ask thee concerning the Hour. Say, ‘The knowledge of it is with Allah alone.’ And what will make thee know that the Hour may be nigh?
[33:65] Allah has surely cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a burning fire,

Those who did not accept Islam/Quran/Muhammad with logical reasons; they are not addressed in these verses.

Hope the verses are now clear to you


“Ending the pretense of faith”

March 20, 2010

Hi friends

I quote from the article:

“These pastors, at least, have begun the important process of being honest with themselves”

I agree that these pastors have admitted an obvious fact; that what they preach is not based on truth. This open admission of the pastors if carried to its logical conclusions must entail the reform of the Christians faith in face of the Skepticism- taking place vacated by the Christian faith. And fortunately it is not difficult to do so. It should not be difficult to find out as to what Jesus and Mary believed in and what they never believed in but the Church ascribed it to them. What Jesus, Mary and the OTBible Prophets believed in was reasonable, rational and logical; with a little thought that could be ascertained and refreshed.

Jesus and Mary were devoted Jews; followers of Moses and OTBible or Torah and the Prophets. They could never deviate from their faith. So much so that Jesus was ready and in fact he was put on the Cross; but he did not waiver. He stood by the reasonable faith he had.

One has just to see as to what was Jesus’ and Mary’s belief in terms of the OTBible. The extra teachings later added or invented are just to be expunged being worthless additions and untrue witnessing.

The reformation is ready and it will be fine. Christians already believe in the OTBible; so the reformation would be within their belief system and not outside of it.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

“Christian Right’s attack on rights”

February 28, 2010

Hi friends

I agree with the following statement:

“Christianity was not at the founding, nor is it now a monolithic “ism” that justifies the domination and suppression of others–not even Wiccan/Pagans”

“Christianity” is a misnomer; it was not founded by Jesus who was Monotheist undoubtedly.”Christianity” was founded by Paul; and since then it did not remain Monotheist; it became a religion of Trinity.

Notwithstanding the above every religion has a right to present their case with reason, rationality and logical arguments to convince the human beings together by supporting with Revelation from the Creator- God Allah YHWH for fulfilling the Ethical, Moral and Spiritual needs of the man. Who wins I don’t mind. If the Atheists have anything useful in these faculties; they also have a right to serve humanity in these areas.

Christians are no exception.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Respect should be a default faculty of man – one earns it simply by birth

February 26, 2010

Hi friends

Nobody here should be hated and everyone needs to be respected.

Respect should be a default faculty of man – one earns it simply by birth from the fellow human beings.

Not only that every human being should be respected but the creeds he has should also be respected, which means that every human being has the right to express his beliefs fully and freely without fear of derision, persecution or ridiculing by others with foul and filthy words and or actions.

Nevertheless, it does not mean that one should accept wrong beliefs of others deaf and dumb. Allowing others a right to co-exist peacefully; the respect of a human being lies in that one should give rational, reasonable and logical arguments to prove other wrong and or to convince others of the wrong in their beliefs.

I don’t think friend Cloudlift has infringed on other’s respect; though I am new on this topic. He did not disrespect others, in my opinion.

Did he?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with its reasons

January 24, 2010

Brendalee wrote:

paarsurrey: Kindly provide proof ..that “Jesus and Mary” did not believe in the trinity.

paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friend brendalee

You know it is written in your NTBible that Jesus came to fulfill Moses’ teachings; Jesus and Mary were Jews followers of Moses. Moses never believed in any Trinity; (So Jesus and Mary never had to believe in any Trinity).

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


Brendalee wrote:

Well, firstly it is not MY “NTBible”, and secondly (and I know this will come as a great astonishment to you), I did not ask you what Moses believed, did I? Nope, I asked you to PROVE what you claim Jesus or Mary did or did not believe.

I love Isa and Mariam as mentioned in Quran


paarsurrey says:

Hi friend brendalee

I don’t know as to why people here generally don’t want to disclose their identity or denomination/faith/religion; perhaps they don’t feel confident on the truth of their stand-point and they prefer to remain a rolling stone, without any identity. Or they might not be sure or confident to defend their denomination/faith/religion with reasonable, rational and logical arguments; well I don’t mind that. I can understand this state of affairs for the Atheists Agnostics as their belief is not natural and firm hence they need to conceal it; never mind.

I would love to prove from Quran being an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim as to the claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe and of their deeds and acts that they both performed.

Please start a separate thread titles “claims of what Jesus or Mary did or did not believe with its reasons “. Now it depends on you to start such a thread, as things here might get jumbled together.

I am waiting for such a thread in the Islam questioned and defended forum.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


Son of God, Alpha Omega, Word Incarnate, Lamb of God: only parables

November 14, 2009

Shaunm1963 wrote:

AND if you LOVE Jesus and Mary (as mentioned in the Koran) do you also believe that Jesus is the Son of God and the Word Incarnate and the Alpha and Omega and the Lamb of God? What do you MEAN you LOVE them???

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend Shaunm1963

Yes, I love Jesus and Mary like I love all the Messengers Prophets mentioned in Quran i.e. Moses, Moses’ mother, Noah, Jonah etc. They were exemplary personalities for the human beings; that is why they were selected by the Creator-God Allah YHWH as Models for humanity.

1. I don’t believe Jesus to be son of god, in its literal meaning; yes I believe that he was one of the persons whom the Creator- God loved.

2. Jesus was never a Word incarnate in its literal meaning; but in the meaning that all the Messenger Prophets fulfilled the purpose of the creations of human beings; in that sense all the Messengers are the Word incarnate; nothing special with Jesus.

3. In the same sense all Messengers are Alpha and Omega; in the image of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; and they fulfill the purpose of human creation.

4. All the Messengers have to suffer and make sacrifices in the way of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; they are all Lambs of God, nothing special with Jesus.

5. Jesus talked in parables; the sinful and deserting scribes and the Church did not understand the parables sometimes and took it literally; they carved myths from the parables, we don’t have to follow their mistakes unnecessarily for nothing.

The human society is and must be rational, reasonable and logical; it cannot live in mythical castles. It is for this that I say the Jesus of Bible is no more relevant in the West. Jesus and Mary of Quran are real and relevant for the West and hence they must be loved as their celebrities.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran; not the mythical ones as mentioned by the cunning Paul and sinful scribes in the NT.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Collection of Quran :Usman did a memorable job

October 1, 2009


Uthman burned the different Qurans in order to standardize them. You forgot about that part.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend sword_of_truth

Please let me know your denomination/sect/faith/religion while replying.

Usman’s only , but very appreciable, contribution was to publish the Quran and to standardise it. It was the same as was revealed on the heart of Muhammad and which a larg number of his companions had already committed to their memory.

Muhammad had also as an axiliary measure or as a supporting measure, got the revelation of Quran written by appointed scribes, on pieces of cloth,pieces of leather or leaves of the trees, as the verses of the Quran were not and could not be in a sequence.They got revealed as and when an event would happen. Whenever the Angel revealed a portion of a chapter; he guided Muhammad as to where the same were to be put, before or after such and such verse. This was possible in the memory of heart but not otherwise. The paper was also not available in abundance; so the pieces could not be in the book form.

Usman collected all these pieces and arranged them in the sequence of what was already committed to heart and memory by a large number of the companions of Muhammad. The axiliary utility of those pieces of leaves, bones, pieces of cloth, leather etc had reached to it logical and purposeful conclusion so these were not needed anymore and were disposed off appropriately.

Quran is a Revelation with the systems ;that is why it is and was called a book. If it would have not been written altogether, even then it would have been called a book due to this reason and in this sense.

Usman’s contribution was that he published the revelation that was already being recited by everybody from memory; for the convenience of the people in other lands where people had converted to Islam in large numbers and hence there was a demand of it. Usman or anyone else could not and did not change or could not afford to change anything of the Quran.

I think it is reasonable and should be easy to understand for our friends here.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim;bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/sects/religions Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists and working for their unity and brotherhood.

In the name of justice and love; Christianity presents a very cruel God and concept of atonement of sins, which is neither practical and rational, nor natural and logical

June 12, 2009

Marianne says:

The apostles were not dull witted. Jesus spent 3 years training them and they were very smart and prepared to do their job.

To say they were somehow stupid is an insult to their teacher Jesus.

Paarsurrey says: But this is what the Bible presents them to be.

Marianne says:

They believed in the resurrection of Lazarus, because they were there when it happened.

Paarsurrey says:

Had they believed that Jesus had given life to a physically dead Lazarus; then they would have not deserted Jesus on the Cross’ they just ran away; actions speak more than the words sometimes.

Marianne says:

Jesus died on the cross, and then he rose from the dead.

Paarsurrey says:

If Jesus was physically dead, then his friends would have not been in hurry to take him to the tomb. They believed that Jesus was near-dead, hence they hurriedly took him to the tomb for treatment.

If they had believed that he must be physically and literally dead and was to be alive from the dead, they would have kept him in the open; at least for the Jews to see Jesus perform the miracle. That never happened; and they did not expect it. They knew that Jesus was not physically dead.

Marianne says:

HE never went to India. This is a fairy tale of unbelievers.

Paarsurrey says:

The scribes did not write the gospel books to record the facts for the public. They wrote it for a specific purpose to support Paul’s weird theological philosophy.

They did not mention accounts of Jesus’ earlier life; they had no interest in it.They did not have interest in what Jesus did after he went from Galilee. Jesus seeing their poor belief; secretly went to India.

Marianne says:

Unless you accept the atonement death of Jesus on the cross, and his resurrection from the dead, your faith is wrong, and your relationship with Jesus is = 0 (zero), meaningless.

Paarsurrey says:

There is no direct relationship between sins and Jesus’ supposed death on the Cross; which never happened. Sins are forgiven from the time of Adam to today under a separate process; whether Jesus died on the Cross or did not die on the Cross.My relationship with Jesus is meaningful; I believe in the same God Allah YHWH whom Jesus also believed.

Marianne says:

Jesus came to die for our sins. If you reject this, then you reject him.

Paarsurrey says:

Sorry, I don’t agree with you. Jesus came with a message from God Allah YHWH; that is why he was a Messenger and Prophet. Sins are forgiven by God Allah YHWH. Jesus has no authority to forgive sins; it is sole discretion of God Allah YHWH; this should be clearly understood.

If a passerby in the street committs a sin; you won’t kill your son for the atonement of the passerby’s sins. It will be a most cruel thing to do.

In the name of justice and love; Christianity presents a very cruel concept of God and atonement of sins, which is neither practical and rational nor natural and logical.

I respect your faith; but this is what I sincerely belive and with logical reasons.

You are welcome to express your faith; no compulsion; but it should not be blindfaith, it should be a reason oriented faith supported by reasons and logical arguments. Blindfaith is no faith.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

It is a cruel idea; to kill your son for the sins of your wife or for the sins of your daughter

June 4, 2009

Markparker1 says:

Paarsurrey, do you believe that if we repent of our sins and forsake them God will forgive us?

Paarsurrey says:

Yes; if we sin, we repent, forsake the sins and ask forgiveness from God Allah YHWH; He could in His discretion forgive us the sins. God Allah YHWH is Master of Everything, he has created everything; and he has not to take permission from anybody to forgive the sins.

God Allah YHWH is the Judge; if he forgives a wrong doing human being under the above procedure very mercifully and for the sake of humanity, I don’t find any injustice in it. It is the question of love and mercy of Him towards the human being; there is no discrepancy in it.

This is very rational, practical and very logical; we all experience it in our family. We forgive mistakes and sins of our daughters and sons; and nobody challenges it or says that it is unfair. In fact everybody understands that it is quite natural.

This has been going on from ages to ages; from the time of Adam to the time when Jesus was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position and when he got cured of the injuries infliceted on the Cross; he secretly migrated to India.

Now comes the cunning Paul- an enemy of Jesus; with a new idea never believed by Jesus and Mary, and the sinful scribes of the Gospels tow his line.The give a new meaning of Jesus tribulations on the Cross; in the absence of Jesus while he was in India.

Paul’s idea is neither truthful, nor practical, or rational or logical or natural. It is a cruel idea; to kill your son for the sins of your wife or for the sins of your daughter or for the sins of a stranger- a man in the street. It is a mockery of Justice. In fact it is a sin to beleive in it or to act on it.

Sorry, I don’t agree with Paul; I won’t buy his weird philosphy.

I love Jesus and Mary as beautifully described in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The spiritual matters have a strong relationship with the things moral and physical

May 26, 2009

Len Nederlof says:

These things are not a question of reasonable and logical arguments. They are spiritual matters and they are spiritually discerned. I am a Christian, a Jesus follower, not a Paul follower like so many others who call themselves Christian.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend Len Nederlof

Sorry, I don’t agree with you. The spiritual matters have a strong relationship with the things moral and physical. The spirit moves with the body where-ever you go.

A spirit cannot exist without the body; neither the human body can lifely exists without the spirit; this amply show that the relationship of the spirit or soul is very strong.

It rather enhances our temporal being but nevertheless is most reasonable, I think.

The spiritual matters are sensible and equitable and hence are a concentrate of reason and reality; never unreasonable and illogical, in my opinion.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran; not the mythical accounts of the cunning Paul and the sinful scribes in the Bible.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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