Posts Tagged ‘Law of Moses’

Jesus was not a crazy man to claim divinty

January 22, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/jesus-had-no-claim-on-divinity/#comments

Hi friend Aaron

You say “The punishment for blasphemy, according to Mosaic Law, was death (Leviticus 24:16”.

Let us see what is mentioned in the verses quoted by you.

Leviticus 24:10-20

10 And behold there went out the son of a woman of Israel, whom she had of an Egyptian, among the children of Israel, and fell at words in the camp with a man of Israel.
11 And when he had blasphemed the name, and had cursed it, he was brought to Moses: (now his mother was called Salumith, the daughter of Dabri, of the tribe of Dan:) 12 And they put him into prison, till they might know what the Lord would command. 13 And the Lord spoke to Moses, 14 Saying: Bring forth the blasphemer without the camp, and let them that heard him, put their hands upon his head, and let all the people stone him. 15 And thou shalt speak to the children of Israel: the man that curseth his God, shall bear his sin:
16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die: all the multitude shall stone him, whether he be a native or a stranger. He that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die. 17 He that striketh and killeth a man, dying let him die. 18 He that killeth a beast, shall make it good, that is to say, shall give beast for beast. 19 He that giveth a blemish to any of his neighbours: as he hath done, so shall it be done to him: 20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, shall he restore. What blemish he gave, the like shall he be compelled to suffer.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/03024.htm

Now we look into the verses as mentioned by you.

1. Now the passage mentions the man “he had blasphemed the name, and had cursed it”, it does not say with transparency that the man claimed to be God; he cursed God as is written there and that does not make one claimant of divinity, for sure.
2. So I don’t think that you have been able to quote any appropriate verse for punishment of a claimant of God from Moses.
3. Unless you mention such a verse; I don’t think that there was any punishments of claiming a god; as it is obviously a crazy claim for a human being; does not involve any punishment in this world as there is no ambiguity in it.
4. How could Jesus make such a crazy claim? And why should he when he was not a god; he did not die on Cross and like Moses who migrated from Egypt to Arabian Peninsula to save his life; so did Jesus, he was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position and later when he recovered from the injuries, secretly, he made good his escape to India; so like Moses he was only a Prophet of God.
5. If as you say (though it is totally incorrect) that Jesus claimed literal divinity; then the Jews should have insisted that Jesus be stoned in the public as per the Law of Moses; they preferred to hang him on the Cross, just to prove that he was a cursed man; and that Jesus was not, he was Chosen-One of God and His beloved.

Please find some transparent verses from Moses in the issue to strengthen your claim.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks and regards.

Ali Sina quotes Quran out of context

November 20, 2009

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3552&p=81031#p81031

Ali Sina wrote:

A Reply from Ali Sina

Hello ….,
Truth cannot be found. Albert Einstein, yes that Jew whom Muhammad called monkey and pig said: “Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.” There is a world of wisdom in these words. You can never find the truth. All you can do is expose the lies and get closer to the truth. In my writings I am not teaching the ultimate truth. I am exposing the lies of Muhammad and Islam.

Ali

Paarsurrey says:

Hi Ali Sina

Quran says only about the hardened priestly Jews of the time of Jesus that they were only following the Law of Moses, in apparent and outward manner, not in the spirit of it. They were monkeys or imitators of teachings of Moses and pigs or dirty as they tried to kill the Messengers Prophets of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; though they could not kill them as they tried to kill Jesus a cursed death on the Cross; but God saved his life and Jesus migrated to India,

Jesus condemned the priestly Jews for this behavior and called them hypocrites , serpents ,and vipers and what not please refer to Matthew 23:1-39

So, calling the priestly class i.e. the scribes and the Pharisees of the time of Jesus who tried to kill Jesus but did not succeed, in symbolic terms, as monkeys and pigs is in line with Jesus who told them that they were serpents, generation of vipers likewise was correct.

I quoted in the previous post from Jesus from the Bible and now I quote here from Quran to prove my point.

[2:63] Surely, the Believers, and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians — whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds — shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.
[2:64] And remember the time when We took a covenant from you and raised high above you the Mount, saying: ‘Hold fast that which We have given you and bear in mind what is therein, that you may be saved.’
[2:65] Then you turned back thereafter; and had it not been for Allah’s grace towards you and His mercy, you would surely have been of the losers.
[2:66] And surely, you have known the end of those amongst you, who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. So We said to them: ‘Be ye apes, despised.’
[2:67] Thus We made it an example to those of its time and to those who came after it, and a lesson to those who fear God.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … 2&verse=62

It could be observed that here the real monkeys are not referred to but the priestly scholar class who are told to revert to the previous stage in evolution. The human beings as stated in the evolution were monkeys. Here it is certainly meant the priestly class. In the same way Muhammad called the bad traditional scholars/mullahs in the end of the days or of today as monkeys and pigs.

This is not relevant to the ordinary Jews of our time.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Ali Sina quotes Quran out of context

November 20, 2009

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3552&p=81023#p81023

Ali Sina wrote:

A Reply from Ali Sina

Hello ….,
Truth cannot be found. Albert Einstein, yes that Jew whom Muhammad called monkey and pig said: “Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.” There is a world of wisdom in these words. You can never find the truth. All you can do is expose the lies and get closer to the truth. In my writings I am not teaching the ultimate truth. I am exposing the lies of Muhammad and Islam.

Ali

paarsurrey wrote:

Hi Ali Sina

Quran says only about the hardened priestly Jews of the time of Jesus that they were only following the Law of Moses, in apparent and outward manner, not in the spirit of it. They were monkeys or imitators of teachings of Moses and pigs or dirty as they tried to kill the Messengers Prophets of the Creator- God Allah YHWH; though they could not kill them as they tried to kill Jesus a cursed death on the Cross; but God saved his life and Jesus migrated to India,

Jesus condemned the priestly Jews for this behavior:

Matthew 23:

1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. 3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but with a finger of their own they will not move them. 5 And all their works they do for to be seen of men. For they make their phylacteries broad, and enlarge their fringes.
5 “Phylacteries”… that is, parchments, on which they wrote the ten commandments, and carried them on their foreheads before their eyes: which the Pharisees affected to wear broader than other men; so to seem more zealous for the law.
6 And they love the first places at feasts, and the first chairs in the synagogues, 7 And salutations in the market place, and to be called by men, Rabbi. 8 But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren. 9 And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ.
9 “Call none your father upon earth”… Neither be ye called masters. The meaning is that our Father in heaven is incomparably more to be regarded, than any father upon earth: and no master to be followed, who would lead us away from Christ. But this does not hinder but that we are by the law of God to have a due respect both for our parents and spiritual fathers, (1 Cor. 4. 23: 15,) and for our masters and teachers.
11 He that is the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. 13 But woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you yourselves do not enter in; and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter. 14 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: because you devour the houses of widows, praying long prayers. For this you shall receive the greater judgment. 15 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves.
16 Woe to you blind guides, that say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but he that shall swear by the gold of the temple, is a debtor. 17 Ye foolish and blind; for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? 18 And whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gift that is upon it, is a debtor. 19 Ye blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 He therefore that sweareth by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things that are upon it:
21 And whosoever shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth in it: 22 And he that sweareth by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and have left the weightier things of the law; judgment, and mercy, and faith. These things you ought to have done, and not to leave those undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you make clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but within you are full of rapine and uncleanness.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, first make clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, that the outside may become clean. 27 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful, but within are full of dead men’s bones, and of all filthiness. 28 So you also outwardly indeed appear to men just; but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. 29 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; that build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the monuments of the just, 30 And say: If we had been in the days of our Fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
29 “Build the sepulchres”… This is not blamed, as if it were in itself evil to build or adorn the monuments of the prophets: but the hypocrisy of the Pharisees is here taxed; who, whilst they pretended to honour the memory of the prophets, were persecuting even unto death the Lord of the prophets.
31 Wherefore you are witnesses against yourselves, that you are the sons of them that killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? 34 Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you will put to death and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the just blood that hath been shed upon the earth, from the blood of Abel the just, even unto the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you killed between the temple and the altar.
35 “That upon you may come”… Not that they should suffer more than their own sins justly deserved; but that the justice of God should now fall upon them with such a final vengeance, once for all, as might comprise all the different kinds of judgments and punishments, that had at any time before been inflicted for the shedding of just blood.
36 Amen I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. 37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldest not? 38 Behold, your house shall be left to you, desolate. 39 For I say to you, you shall not see me henceforth till you say: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/47023.htm

So, calling the priestly class i.e. the scribes and the Pharisees of the time of Jesus who tried to kill Jesus but did not succeed, in symbolic terms, as monkeys and pigs is in line with Jesus who told them that they were serpents, generation of vipers likewise was correct.

This is not relevant to the ordinary Jews of our time.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Quran gave no sanctity of truthfulness to the existing Torah, or the existing Gospels

May 14, 2009

~This never meant that Quran gave any sanctity of truthfulness to the existing Torah or existing Gospels or the existing Meccan tradition

Brooksrobinson says:

I think I left you a response, I don’t think your blog really answers my questions. It still remains, why was Muhammad asking Christians to even looking into our own Gospel?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend brooksrobinson

I think in a broad sense, the individuals whether they were the Infidels of Mecca, or Jews or Christians; if they lived the life of a peaceful citizen they were not to be subjugated forcibly under the State Law, which was now the Islamic Law.

The peaceful citizens living in the Muslim Domain were to be judged by their respective religious codes, under the Law of Moses, or Gospels or the Meccan tradition to whichever they belonged.

The Jews as they believed in Torah were free to be judged by it, as they had not yet been convinced to accept Islam or they still preferred to remain Jews. They were not to be judged forcibly by the Islamic Law, which was the Law of the State.

The infidels of Mecca, if they lived as peaceful citizens they were also free to act as per their tradition, but they were not free to get involved in any anti-state subversive activities against the State. They were, however, allowed to practice their own Law/ tradition if they behaved like a normal peaceful citizens. They were not subjugated by force by the Islamic Law, which was now the Law of the Land.

This never meant that Quran gave any sanctity of truthfulness to the existing Torah or existing Gospels or the existing Meccan tradition. Quran mentions very clearly that these had been corrupted; and were not to be followed by the Muslims. The followers of these faiths were not punishable by the State; yet they would be severely punished in the hereafter for their wrongs.

They would be equal in the eye of the Law of the State, and the State will not be prejudiced against them, just because they were Jews, or Christians or infidels of Mecca. Ishmael, Moses and Jesus were truthful Messenger in the origin, no doubt about it; yet that won’t save Meccans, Jews and the Christians a punishment in hereafter.

Since the context discussed immediate involvement with the Jews and the Meccans; Christians were not actively involved at that time, so guidance about treatment to be done with the Jews and the infidels of Mecca was specifically provided in the verses; though for Christians only a passing remark or fleeting remarks was given, to cover them under a broader principle. There were no Christians around, at that time; a passing remark was appropriate for them in my opinion.

All religious codes contain some common points; there is no harm if a word of appreciation was given about them by Quran.

If you read the context again in the light of the points mentioned by the Promised Messiah 1835-1908; in a post published by me a few days ago, you would better understand the context of the verses of Quran, in my opinion:

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/the-islamic-wars-fought-by-muhammad-were-not-fought-to-spread-the-faith-but-only-to-protect-the-lives-of-the-persecuted-and-innocent-muslims/

I think it helps.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim