Posts Tagged ‘JWs’

JWs: “Watchtower studies”

May 28, 2019

Religious Forums

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/christian-denominations-vs-jw-new-light-unity-and-truth.220881/#post-6111025

“Watchtower studies”

#13paarsurrey

I am not a Christian. I am Ahmadiyya peaceful Muslim. I attended JW Church many times. I observed that they do not teach Bible in their services but they teach Watch-Tower magazine even if it contradicted with the Bible. I pointed out that to the people and they were upset with this observation of mine. Now one confirms it to me.

Regards

“The fact that you will not participate further is disappointing. As I said, if you have a problem with what I said then refute me. If you are right then I will become a Witness again. But unfortunately all you have attempted to do is discredit me without addressing my points and use the ad hominem fallacy, which was unnecessary.”

#28paarsurrey, 

It is a rational approach.
For Bible study, no teacher is required. When one of my Catholic friends presented me with a Bible (OT and NT), I just started reading it from the Genesis and making notes. It took me three years to finish it as I did it with a lot of concentration. Now, I knew what is exactly in the Bible even more correctly than a priest or clergy would know. Sometimes the teacher take you away from what is exactly written in the Bible. When somebody from the Christians will discuss with me, I pointed out things what exactly was in the text and the context while they could not deny it and just said that they had not thought of it while they had gone through it many times in their life and even their priests did not know about them.
I therefore suggest that one should study Bible intently from Genesis onward without a teacher. One will know more than a teacher could tell. It is easy.

Regards

Are Christians cut-off from the Tree of Life?

March 22, 2014

http://fidedubitandum.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/only-the-worst-positions-allowed/#comment-3758

paarsurrey
March 21st, 2014 at 7:40 pm

@john zande :March 21st, 2014 at 6:27 am
“Revelation 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”Unquote

I want to share an incident with friends here.

Quite sometimes ago two JWs persons came to my house and told me that there had been no change in the Bible, it is impossible and opened before me the above two passage of Revelation 22:18-19 from the Urdu Protestant Bible (later I came to know that JWs don’t had their own Urdu JW’s Bible at that time, and hence they preferred to follow Protestant Version and not the Catholic Version).

Incidentally I had a Catholic Urdu Bible with me which I was studying very intently, and I was much impressed by its contents.

I brought that and put that on the table. I said let us check both the versions, I did not know as to what the result would be. So we started checking the list of books given in the beginning.

We came to know that there were some six books in the Catholic Urdu OT Bible which were not to be found in the Protestant Bible.

They (the JWs) became pale and upset and went away.

So the addition or diminution of the books; and besides that many passage/verses and chapters missing or adding suggest, please don’t mind, that perhaps both the Protestants and Catholics have been cut off from the tree of life in terms of the above verses of Revelation 22:18-19.

What is the remedy?
Can both the mainstream Christian denominations agree to a version which should be acceptable to both of them and the JWs?

Thanks

Mormons and JWs consider “Catholics and Protestant” as heretics. Are they?

April 8, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/02/07/jesus-was-not-dead-on-the-cross-in-the-first-place/#comment-983#comment-983

wudjab Says:

April 7, 2010 at 9:07 pm

You need to try harder Paar,

According to your own Quran :

[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him – they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.*
and the reason they did not break his legs ?

John 19:36

These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
Now if you spent as much time learning about the real Islam (ahmediya’s are not considered Muslims after all) as you do trying to discredit Christianity, you might be better served.

paarsurrey Says:

April 8, 2010 at 10:29 am

Hi friend wudjab

Well my friend; “Mormons” and “JWs”- the only true Christians, do consider the Catholics and Protestants as heretics. Are you a Mormon or a JW? Please mention so that we may proceed further in the discussion.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Paul spoiled Jesus’ true teachings

March 19, 2010

Paul spoiled Jesus’ true teachings to avenge his obvious enmity

hvtbintl69 Says:

I understand your beliefs but what are they based upon? The evidence? Of course Mary/Jesus they never celebrated Easter. Jesus was the originator.
There is no evidence that Jesus survived the cross nor is there any evidence that he died in Kashmir years later. Nothing in archaeology or scripture verifies it.
Jesus was dead on the cross, his friends put him into the tomb due to the oncoming Sabbath not any kind of conspiracy with the Romans. No removal occurred.
Thanks

paarsurrey Says:

Hi friend hvtbintl69

If Jesus would have been the originator of the Easter, the annual feast of the Christians; he must have celebrated it himself. In fact Jesus was not founder of the “Christianity”; it was Paul who founded “Christianity”:

1. Paul only used Christ’s name as a scapegoat

2. to spread his own (Paul’s) Theology invented at Rome

3. and also to take revenge from Jesus who had escaped death on Cross

4. by spoiling Jesus’ true teachings

5. and who (Jesus) had gone out of the reach of Paul who was a dead enemy of Jesus and his friends.

Jesus had nothing to do with Christianity of Paul and the Church.

I have given numerous proofs to that effect in my posts in my blog; you or other Christians of 32000+ denominations are welcome to refute them if you like, with your reasonable, rational and logical argument. I don’t think Christians could refute them. It is an inter-faith discussion blog; everybody is welcome to join the discussions opened by me in my posts. I respect all the 32000+ denominations of the Christians. Even JWs or Mormons who declare to be the only true Christians are welcome here. Everybody is invited to join the discussion.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

JWs and the Mormons claim that they are the only true Christians

January 12, 2010

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=89761#p89761
Trinity – a mistake of the Catholics Protestants

Mr Preet wrote:

paars, what do you mean by “Catholic Protestants”?

Manfred wrote:

Yes, that did make me laugh when I saw that…

Maybe is means somebody sort halfway between their respective positions, like Anglicans, perhaps? The children of a Christian mixed marriage?

If he simply meant both all Catholics and Protestants, why did he not say “Christians” instead?

Also, Mr Preet, I don’t think paarsurrey is remotely interested in the concept of trinity, he just posted his stuff here to make fun of it. He neither understands what is means nor wants to know. But somehow making strawman cases against it makes him feel good I think. Why, I have no idea. Why does he not take a really hard look at his “Jesus taken off the cross and emigrated to India” belief instead? Now that is so unbelievably silly, it really does not deserve consideration by a sane human being.

manfred wrote:

If he simply meant both all Catholics and Protestants, why did he not say “Christians” instead?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend manfred

The JWs and the Mormons claim that they are the only true Christians; hence I mention every follower of Paul (not of Jesus definitely) by the denomination he belongs to.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The Pharisees were Jews; had they noticed that Jesus had claimed to be a god, it must ‎have been written also in the book of the Jews? ‎

July 26, 2009

http://thechristianwatershed.com/2009/07/22/a-reply-to-a-muslim-the-deity-and-death-of-‎jesus/‎

Now coming to the second issue:‎

Paarsurrey said:‎

‎“The truth, in my opinion, is that Jesus was not God; he never proclaimed as such, there ‎are no direct quotes from him in this regards. God talked with Jesus and revealed His ‎word on him, He chose Jesus his Messenger/Prophet/Messiah, Jesus was not a son of ‎God.”‎

Joel said:‎

Ah, but He most certainly did make the claim that He was God. Though He never goes ‎throughout ancient Israel saying, “Hey, I’m God,” He does many things and says many ‎things that assert His claim to divinity – and the Pharisees noticed it. Let us look at some ‎of the evidence:‎

Paarsurrey says:‎

Hi fried Joel

Please quote from Jesus; not from what the sinful and unfaithful scribes, who deserted ‎Jesus when he most needed them.Later they sided with Paul who was an enemy of Jesus ‎and his friends. ‎

Jesus never could utter such words that he was a god. You say the Pharisees noticed it; I ‎don’t agree with you. The Pharisees were Jews; had they noticed it, it should have been ‎written also in the book of the Jews? Please quote from Jewish source that the Pharisees ‎noticed it.‎

Jesus denies of this claim as rightly quoted by Quran from Jesus:‎

‎[5:117] And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take ‎me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’”, he will answer, “Holy art Thou. I ‎could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have ‎surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy ‎mind. It is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things.‎
‎[5:118] “I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me — ‎‎‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them as long as I ‎remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the ‎Watcher over them; and Thou art Witness over all things.‎
‎[5:119] “If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou ‎surely art the Mighty, the Wise.” ‎

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3‎A&ch=5&verse=116‎

God Allah YHWH accounted from Jesus of what the Christians only made up on his ‎behalf; and Jesus denies that he ever claimed to be god or son of god; which is only a ‎mistake of cunning Paul and the Church which followed Paul. It has nothing to do with ‎Jesus, I think.‎

Please tell me if you are from the JWs or the Mormons; kindly do not mind.‎

I love Jesus and Mary.‎

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Even the Catholics/Protestants/JWs/Mormons, viewers of your blog will agree with me ‎that killing of your daughter, even if she is willing, will be a cruel act, for sure

July 24, 2009

Paarsurrey said:

‎“I respect your religion; but I have my own free opinion. I think it to be too cruel for a ‎father (God) to sacrifice/kill his beloved one (son) for others imaginary sins.”

Joel said:

If this were done against the will of Christ, then I would agree that it would be cruel. ‎However, Jesus is part of the Godhead (we’ll get to that), thus as being God He planned ‎on sacrificing Himself from before He even created the world, and as being a person in ‎the Godhead, He willingly went to the cross.


Paarsurrey says
:‎
Hi friend Joel

I ask you a little question; I think you don’t mind. Are you married and have sons and ‎daughter?

I suppose you are married and have a beautiful little baby girl. If she says; papa I am ‎willing, just kill me. Will you kill her? If you kill her; won’t it be a cruel act? I think, it ‎will be a cruel act; so even your own Catholic church will declare it to be cruel.

You will need a very cruel heart to perform this act.

Sorry, it is as simple as that. I think even the Catholics/Protestants/JWs/Mormon viewers ‎of your blog will agree with me on this point.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

P.S.

I jut now posted these comments on your blog; but they did not get through and got published. Please paste them onto your blog. Thanks

Church had no authority to select one book and reject another one

June 2, 2009

Cindyinsd says:

If the Bible is corrupted, then it must, at some time, have been pure. I have never heard a Muslim (or a Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness, who also claim the Bible is corrupted) ever argue that the Bible was never the word of God.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend cindyinsd

I can’t speak on behalf of the JWs or the Mormons; they would defend their faith themselves if any one of them views it.

Quran does acknowledge that God Allah YHWH conversed with Moses and Jesus; there is no doubt about that they were revealed a Message from God Allah YHWH for their people.

God Allah YHWH however never took responsibility for its preservation or protection from corruption. There is no straightforward verse for that matter in the Bible; if there is one, you are welcome to quote it.

The scribes were entrusted with this job; and they did not perform their duty as they should have done it; they added texts, their comments or commentaries or events that suited their respective denominations.

Anyone who reads these books; can see these things visibly; it is wrong to state that they are reasonably secure; they are not secure.

Church had no authority to select one book and leave another one. They have not been faithful to Moses or Jesus respectively.

I respect your faith; you are free to believe what you think is truth for you.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Moses and his mother.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

I don’t think Science is a function of Atheism or that the Atheists have a sole legitimate claim on Science

May 15, 2009

~Science is a natural faculty for the inquisitive minds, whether religious or irreligious, which evolved with man in centuries.

Godless American says:

What’s really funny is how the Theologist is the one that resorts to science and the atheist only uses his personal sense of reality. Totally switched around, hilarious!

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/parable-of-the-atheist-and-the-theologist-paul8bee/#comments

paarsurrey says:

Hi friend Godless American

Thank you for visiting my blog and making some comments. I also just visited your blog
http://leftagenda.wordpress.com, and gone through the contents. Yours is a busy blog. You are welcome here; though your views would be differing views sometimes, but I don’t mind.

I don’t think that the Atheists have any sole rights on science. Science is a natural faculty for the inquisitive minds, whether religious or irreligious, which evolved with man in centuries. I don’t think Science is a function of Atheism or Religiosity.

It is free for any human without discrimination of being Theist or Non-Theist. There had been very great scientists who were amongst the Catholics Theists; and I admire them. There might be many, though not as great as Newton or Lois Pasture, nevertheless, there had been some scientists who are said to be Atheists; I admire them also. Any human being who has served God Allah YHWH well or who has served the Humanity, I admire them all.

Sorry, I don’t admire and don’t agree that a humanist should have the as I find it on your blog:

The Left Agenda

“We are a liberal, left-wing, progressive, and atheist blog. Little respect is given to right-wing ideology or Republican talking points. We enjoy laughing at right-wingers, and have no qualms lambasting them either. We hope you enjoy the Left Agenda. Please comment, debate, argue, insult, and laugh as much as you like. We will.”

Is it serving humanity or science? If you don’t mind; please feel free to tell us.

I love the Atheists/Agnostics as human beings as I love the Catholics, Protestants and JWs or Mormons

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

P.S.

The fable is authored by our friend paul8bee and is exhibited on his blog: http://paulscave.wordpress.com.

Please feel free to add your comments on his blog also for the diversity; he is a non-denominational Theist, from Vancouver, Canada.

Regards

No Shia/Sunni controversy about Jesus Coming in the Ummah of Muhammad

November 23, 2008

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4461612&postcount=10

[QUOTE=The John;4458054]”Muhammad said there would be no ‘prophets’ after him?”

Where does Muhammad say this?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Muhammad is not the father of any male among you, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets; and God is aware of all things (33:40).[/QUOTE]

Hi

1. There is no mention in the above verse of persons receiving Revelation from God for guidance of the mankind i.e. Messengers, not coming after Muhammad.

2. I have quoted two authenticated Hadith from Muhammad for the advent of Jesus/Issa/IbneMaryam from the Sunni Sources. Muhammad clearly supports of Jesus’ Coming in his Ummah; not among the CatholicsProtestantsJWs or Jews.

[~~Yushaku man aasha minkum ianyulka eisabna maryama imamun mahduyyun , hakamun iadualun yakserus saleba wa yaktulul khinzera

One who would be alive (at that time), he would meet Issa (JesusYeshua) s/o Maryam (MaryMerium) in the position of ImamMahdi (DivineGuided), a truthful judge (among faiths/religions); he would break the Cross (with arguments) and kill the swine. (Masnad Ahmad 156/2)

~~Abu Hurairah narrated from the Prophet Muhammad SAW that he said:
I swear by Him in whose hands rests my life or death that you would definitely witness advent of the Ibne Maryam (Son of Mary); a truthful judge (among faiths/religions), he would break the Cross (with arguments) and kill the swine and suspend the war (for religious conversion).
(Bukhari Kitabul Anbeya, Bab Nazul-e Essa Ibne Maryam)]

Even Shias believe, naturally from their own sources of tradition, of Jesus Coming in Muhammad’s Ummah not among CatholicsProtestantsJWs.

There is no controversy among Shia and Sunni about Advent of Jesus in the Ummah of Muhammad.

Peace

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim