Posts Tagged ‘Joseph Smith’

Joseph Smith: Mormons: Church of Christ Latter days Saints

May 29, 2014

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/christian-logic/comment-PAGE-1/#comment-15689

PAARSURREY says:
May 25, 2014 at 8:09 pm
@THE ARBOURIST :May 25, 2014 at 2:34 pm
@JOHN ZANDE :May 25, 2014 at 3:18 pm

There are a few points two of them are given below:

1. Joseph Smith said he was sent by Jesus as he wrongly believed following the Pauline theological concepts. He thought that Jesus had died on the Cross; he got resurrected from the dead; making Jesus a god or son of god. Factually speaking none of the above ever happened.

2. Jesus did not die on the cross; so there was no question of his resurrection from the dead. Jesus was put on the cross but he was delivered from it in near-dead position. He was treated for his injuries in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea; when he got recovered enough to travel he went out of Judea taking refuge along-with his mother Mary in Kashmir, a serene land of fountains and scenic beauty in India; thus saving his life from his Jewish and Roman enemies. Paul was a personification of both of these enemies in one.

To refresh you of the facts in this case, I recommend viewing the following documentaries please:

Regards

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/christian-logic/comment-page-1/#comment-15703

PAARSURREY says:
May 26, 2014 at 8:14 pm

Further to my post/comments of May 25, 2014 at 8:09 pm, I have to add that Deuteronomy commands unequivocally that a false prophet must be killed, he cannot die a natural death:

Deuteronomy:Chapter 13:1-5

[1] If there rise in the midst of thee a prophet or one that saith he hath dreamed a dream, and he foretell a sign and a wonder, [2] And that come to pass which he spoke, and he say to thee: Let us go and follow strange gods, which thou knowest not, and let us serve them: [3] Thou shalt not hear the words of that prophet or dreamer: for the Lord your God trieth you, that it may appear whether you love him with all your heart, and with all your soul, or not. [4] Follow the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and hear his voice: him you shall serve, and to him you shall cleave. [5] And that prophet or forger of dreams shall be slain: because he spoke to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you from the house of bondage: to make thee go out of the way, which the Lord thy God commanded thee: and thou shalt take away the evil out of the midst of thee.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/05013.htm

Joseph Smith was killed so in terms of OT Bible he is not a truthful prophet; he was not sent by God; and since Jesus died a natural death in India and a dead man cannot send a prophet or messenger; hence Joseph Smith was not a truthful person/claimant.

Regards

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/christian-logic/comment-page-1/#comment-15729

PAARSURREY says:
May 27, 2014 at 7:45 pm
@ROBINOBISHOP :May 27, 2014 at 2:05 pm
“John,
Didn’t know you were secretly a Bible believer.”

It is because Atheism has grown in the West in reaction to the mythical creeds invented and spread by Paul in the world.
The Pauline Christians cannot defend “Christianity”; the real teachings of Jesus could be defended; and most Atheists could revert to religion.

Please try on these lines.

Regards

Portions or parts of OT and or NT in meaning could be accepted as the Word of God and truthful

January 9, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/02/01/was-joseph-smith-junior-a-messengerprophet-of-jesus-and-not-of-god-allah-yhwh/#comment-839

paarsurrey Says:

Hi friends

I agree with our friend ditchu when he says to sch “You obviously think the word of God is dead and thus he speaks no more to man.”

Nobody could put restrictions on the Creator- God Allah YHWH, not to speak with the human beings anymore.

Presently the Creator- God Allah YHWH has spoken to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 and God has appointed him the Second Coming and the Promised Messiah, as a follower of Muhammad.The Bible- the OT, originally contained Word of God or a portion of it in meanings and similarly the NT may contain portion or parts of the Word of God in meaning only not in its original form.

These portions or parts of the Word of God in OT and or NT, if they agree with Quran, then they are correct otherwise incorrect.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

First Vision: Witout proper introduction, identifications and verifications; Joseph Smith mistook the personages

June 12, 2009

Markparker1 says:

Where do you get the information you base this belief on?

I know what the Holy Ghost feels like, I know it, the scriptures say that the Holy Ghost is sent directly from the Father, and he testifies of truth, I know there is a connection between the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and Heaven, the Heavens testify to it.

Paarsurrey says:

It is right from the First Vision of Joseph Smith which you posted to me. If Jesus could be tried by the Devil for forty days; Joseph Smith could not be any exception.

Jesus told Jews that they were Sons of the Devil; it is mentioned in John 8.

Witout proper introduction and verifications; Joseph Smith mistook the personages. It is his mistake not mines.
When Moses met God Allah YHWH; He properly introduced himself to Moses; and Moses saw no Son with Him:

[20:9] ٱللَّهُ لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ‌ۖ لَهُ ٱلۡأَسۡمَآءُ ٱلۡحُسۡنَىٰ
[20:9] Allah — there is no God but He. His are the most beautiful names.

[20:10] وَهَلۡ أَتَٮٰكَ حَدِيثُ مُوسَىٰٓ
[20:10] And has the story of Moses come to thee?

[20:11] إِذۡ رَءَا نَارً۬ا فَقَالَ لِأَهۡلِهِ ٱمۡكُثُوٓاْ إِنِّىٓ ءَانَسۡتُ نَارً۬ا لَّعَلِّىٓ ءَاتِيكُم مِّنۡہَا بِقَبَسٍ أَوۡ أَجِدُ عَلَى ٱلنَّارِ هُدً۬ى
[20:11] When he saw a fire, he said to his family, ‘Tarry ye, I perceive a fire; perhaps I may bring you a brand therefrom or find guidance at the fire.’

[20:12] فَلَمَّآ أَتَٮٰهَا نُودِىَ يَـٰمُوسَىٰٓ
[20:12] And when he came to it, he was called by a voice, ‘O Moses,
[20:13] إِنِّىٓ أَنَا۟ رَبُّكَ فَٱخۡلَعۡ نَعۡلَيۡكَ‌ۖ إِنَّكَ بِٱلۡوَادِ ٱلۡمُقَدَّسِ طُوً۬ى
[20:13] ‘Verily, I am thy Lord. So take off thy shoes; for thou art in the sacred Valley of Tuwa.

[20:14] وَأَنَا ٱخۡتَرۡتُكَ فَٱسۡتَمِعۡ لِمَا يُوحَىٰٓ
[20:14] ‘And I have chosen thee; so hearken to what is revealed.

[20:15] إِنَّنِىٓ أَنَا ٱللَّهُ لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّآ أَنَا۟ فَٱعۡبُدۡنِى وَأَقِمِ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ لِذِڪۡرِىٓ
[20:15] ‘Verily, I am Allah; there is no God beside Me. So serve Me, and observe Prayer for My remembrance.

[20:16] إِنَّ ٱلسَّاعَةَ ءَاتِيَةٌ أَكَادُ أُخۡفِيہَا لِتُجۡزَىٰ كُلُّ نَفۡسِۭ بِمَا تَسۡعَىٰ
[20:16] ‘Surely, the Hour is coming; I am going to manifest it, that every soul may be recompensed for its endeavour.

[20:17] فَلَا يَصُدَّنَّكَ عَنۡہَا مَن لَّا يُؤۡمِنُ بِہَا وَٱتَّبَعَ هَوَٮٰهُ فَتَرۡدَىٰ
[20:17] ‘So let not him who believes not therein and follows his own evil inclinations, turn thee away therefrom, lest thou perish.

[20:18] وَمَا تِلۡكَ بِيَمِينِكَ يَـٰمُوسَىٰ
[20:18] ‘And what is that in thy right hand, O Moses?’

If Jesus could be tried by the devil for forty days; Joseph Smith could taste a bit of it or more; please don’t mind

June 11, 2009

Hi friend markparker1

Sorry I don’t agree with you; we can only accept Joseph Smith, if he would have been appointed by God Allah YHWH; his First Vision, all narrations, make it very clear to me that he was never in converse with God Allah YHWH and he was definitely not appointed by God Allah YHWH. He did not meet genuinely with Jesus even; it was only his wishful thinking that he met Jesus.

The questions he asked refelect his narrow approach towards faiths and religions; he asked only of the Churches. Joseph Smith did not know things of the past even, what to speak of the future. He did not know that Jesus escaped death on the Cross, he never got alive from the dead, he never ascended to heaven, rather Jesus migrated to India, and he died naturally and peacefuly at the age of about 120 years in India. Joseph Smith did not know all these things, so his meeting with Jesus was not real.

Joseph Smith mentioned features of Jesus as if he was a young man from Europe, with blue eyes and that; which is commonly held by the people in the West. Jesus was from the Jews of Jerusalem, who have different features. So, he was overwhelmed with the common thoughts of the Christians and inundated by his own thoughts; which might have appeared to him as if real; which was not real, only a reflection of his own self.

If Jesus could be tried by the devil for forty days; Joseph Smith could taste a bit of it or more; please don’t mind. Josepsh Smith admits that he was a sinful person; not like that of Messengers Prophets who were always innocent people, chosen by God Allah YHWH.

Joseph Smith was destined to die like Paul in terms of Deuteronmy; and he was killed by the people.

I respect your faith; yet I have to mention what I believe sincerely.

I love Messengers and Prophets as described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Joseph Smith was not appointed by God Allah YHWH; and he asked irrelevant questions in the First Vision

June 10, 2009

Markparker1 says:

This is a link to the various accounts of his first vision:
http://eldenwatson.net/harmony.htm#31

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend markparker1

Thanks for providing me the link. I want to have full text of all nine narrations made by Joseph Smith of his First Vision.

I find that the harmony link provided by you mentions the narrations in first person but some are in third person; why is it so?

Please don’t mind.

Joseph Smith was not appointed by God Allah YHWH; and he asked irrelevant questions in the First Vision.

Regards

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Could you please recall of a Converse/Revelation in which more than one person participated and talked with God Allah YHWH jointly

June 9, 2009

Markparker1 says:

There are quite a few instances of visions where more than just Joseph were present, this is from april 1836:

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend markparker1

Could you please recall of a Converse/Revelation in which more than one person participated and talked with God Allah YHWH jointly; from Moses from Jesus and other Messengers Prophets mentioned in the Old Testament or Torah.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Markparker1! Please provide all the accounts given by Joseph Smith of his First Vision; why he expressed differently for the First Vision?

June 9, 2009

Markparker1 says:

Parr, you do not seem familiar with the testimony of Joseph Smith, there are about 5 or more accounts he gave of just his first vision, some have details that others don’t, some are expressed a different way,

Paarsurrey says:

Please provide all the accounts given by Joseph Smith of his first vision. Why he expressed differently for the first vision?

I respect your faith.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful

Not only that Jesus did not appoint Paul as his successor; he never even mentioned to the twelve that Paul, who was hitherto an enemy of Jesus, would someday convert and become his successor/epistle/Apostle in future

June 9, 2009

Markparker1 says:

I’m also mainly in agreement with the Rev. There is way too much imbeded testimony in the Old Testament about Christ, plus confimation in the New Testament and Book of Mormon with it’s powerful witnesses and the witness of the Holy Ghost.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend markparker1

I think I cannot buy that and also Rev. won’t agree with you that Book of Mormon had anything to do with Jesus.

I can understand that Jesus was unders persecution from the Jews; who were after him to kill him on the Cross to prove that he was not truthful Messenger Prophets of God Allah YHWH; nevetheless Jesus was an upright man. I don’t think that it is a tenable excuse and it favours Jesus that he did not mention for forgot to mention in the Old Testament of his coming by name; and only left clues that Jews never accepted.

One can search the Old Testaments with a powerful microscope but one would fail to find Jesus’ name in the Old Testament.

What was Jesus, god of Bible afraid of by not mentioning his name clearly? Were there Jews in the heaven to persecute him and kill him there?

I take it as a wishful thinking of the Christians to find Jesus of Bible, a god, in the Old Testament.

As far as the appointment of Messengers/ Prophets/ is concerned; as explained earlier it is the sole discretion of God Allah YHWH; and it was not in place for Paul and Joseph Smith.

Even Jesus did not appoint Paul; he never mentioned to the twelve that after crucifixion; Paul, who was hitherto an enemy of Jesus, would convert and become his successor/epitle/Apostel.

The Christians should side with Jesus instead of siding with Paul and Joseph Smith.

I quote here from Bible as to how Moses met with God Allah YHWH and the dialogue that took place :

2 And the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he saw that the bush was on fire and was not burnt. 3 And Moses said: I will go and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the Lord saw that he went forward to see, he called to him out of the midst of the bush, and said: Moses, Moses. And he answered: Here I am. 5 And he said: Come not nigh hither, put off the shoes from thy feet: for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.6 And he said: I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Exodus 3:2-6

http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=2&ch=3&l=11&f=s#x

The personage clearly tells his antecedents and gives signs to Moses; and Moses asks very pertinent questions and is answered by God Allah YHWH.

Moese was a truthful Messenger of God Allah YHWH and died a natural death.

There is no such clarity in the visions of Paul and Joseph Smith; their visions are foggy and without any clarity; they were self appointed and hence were killed in terms of Deuteronomy.

I respect your faith.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

How would you define “good, free and right”? Anybody please

June 7, 2009

What kind of hope do Atheists have?

Ron Ash, our Agnostic friend says:

I belong to all denominations and no denominations. My faith is that of hope, love and faith. Truth is my religion. Jesus advises me and I am guided by angels to do what God sends me to do. I Am an Apostle and all that it means to be.
Tell me a little about yourself.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend Ron Ash

I don’t think it is a consistent or natural and scientific stance. It is good that you have a hope, love and faith.

How does Jesus advise you or angels from God Allah YHWH guide you.

Do you think you are an Apostle like Paul or Joseph Smith or you are different from them?

What kind of hope do Atheists have?

It is good that Truth is your religion.

David Woodford says:

Hope for a good and enjoyable life, free to do whatever one feels is right.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend David Woodford

Welcome to paarsurrey blog.

How would you define “good, free and right”, please? How would the human beings achieve these objectives more easily than others, according to the Agnostics and Athiests?

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

“One more little question; did Joseph Smith believe that Jesus was God?”Ah, this little question is a really big question

June 7, 2009

Markparker1 says:

“One more little question; did Joseph Smith believe that Jesus was God?”

Ah, this little question is a really big question.

Firstly we do not believe in the Trinity as adopted by Christian sects around the 4th century after Christ.

Paarsurrey says:

Well, Jesus was an upright person; he neither believed in Trinity nor in Duality. Jesus’ belief was as simple as of Moses, Abraham, Noah and Jonah; as they were with the same Message from God Allah YHWH.

It becomes clealr to me that Joseph Smith was neither visited by God Allah YHWH nor by Jesus. The conclusion drwan by the Mormons are neither depicted in the text of the first vision of Joseph Smith, nor are in confirmity with the context of the beliefs of Moses, Abraham, Noah, Jonah and Jesus and other Prophest of the Old Testament.

Paul and Joseph Smith seem to be the same complicated persons; had got nothing to do with Jesus or God Allah YHWH; hence their destiny was similar; they were killed in terms of Deuteronmy; as they were never legitimately appointed by by God Allah YHWH in the first place.

I don’t mind if somebody wants to covert me to his faith; this is his right, which he should establish rightly.

One of our friends, Maaark, who is also an ex-LDS person has aloso commented in this connection, you may if you like reply his understandings in the matter.

I love Jesus and Mary as depicted in Quran; not the ones described by Paul or Joseph Smith.

Please don’t mind; you are a friend. I don’t have anything against you or the Mormon Christians, we are just discussing the things in search of truth and comparing our notes. I respect your faith and you have a right to defend your faith; which please continue doing boldly. There is no intention to malign the Mormon Christians, a good people.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim