Paarsurrey wrote:
Randall says:
Just to put it out there, Joseph Smith was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ, and as far as I know, God the Father and Allah are the same being.
Paarsurrey says:
Welcome to visit paarsurrey – a blog for interfaith peaceful discussions.
I would like you to first read my following latest post on Paul and Joseph Smith:
Paul and Joseph Smith claimed they were Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of Jesus; so strictly speaking they never legitimately claimed to be Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of God Allah YHWH
I would humbly submit the following points in this connection:
1. The Messengers Prophets are always appointed by God Allah YHWH; a sole discretion of Him; Jesus though one of the truthful Messengers Prophets of God like unto Jonah, yet he or anybody else could not and cannot appoint anyone as a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH on behalf of God Allah YHWH. This appointement simply does not fall under the discretion of Jesus. I understand that the cunning Paul and Joseph Smith claimed they were Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of Jesus; so strictly speaking they never legitimately claimed to be Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of God Allah YHWH in the first place.
2. Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross; he survived against all odds. Jesus migrated to India, after getting cured from the injuries inflicted on the Cross; he is said to have died at the age of 120/125 years, a very natural and respectful death there. Paul claimed in the absence of Jesus when he was in India; so Paul’s claim was not truthful and hence he suffered the destiny as described in Deuteronomy very clearly.
3. Jesus was appointed by God Allah YHWH as Messenger Prophet, hence, he survived a cursed death on Cross; that proves that he was a truthful Messenger Prophets of God Allah YHWH. Joseph Smith was ignorant of all these things; so I think he did not legitimately claimed to be a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH; further he suffered the same fate; he was killed as clearly defined in Deuteronomy. He was ignorant about what happened to Jesus and Paul. Sorry; I cannot accept him as a legitimate claimant.
4. I do not intend to start any bashing of Paul or Joseph Smith; they did whatever they liked to do and I don’t hate them; yet I have to believe things in a straighforward manner; so this is what I bleive very sincerely; a statement of faith of me. Please don’t mind.
Randal my friend!Please keep on visiting and favoring with your valuable comments. Please feel free to express yourself fully here.
I admire the Mormons Christians for their charitable and polite discussions.
You are a nice friend.
I love Jesus and Mary as beautifully and truthfully described in Quran.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Paarsurrey says:
Hi friend markparker1
I would humbly submit the following points again:
1. The Messengers Prophets are always appointed by God Allah YHWH; a sole discretion of Him; Jesus though one of the truthful Messengers Prophets of God like unto Jonah, yet he or anybody else could not and cannot appoint anyone as a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH on behalf of God Allah YHWH. This appointement simply does not fall under the discretion of Jesus. I understand that the cunning Paul and Joseph Smith claimed they were Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of Jesus; so strictly speaking they never legitimately claimed to be Messengers/Prophets/Epistles/Apostels of God Allah YHWH in the first place.
2. Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross; he survived against all odds. Jesus migrated to India, after getting cured from the injuries inflicted on the Cross; he is said to have died at the age of 120/125 years, a very natural and respectful death there. Paul claimed in the absence of Jesus when he was in India; so Paul’s claim was not truthful and hence he suffered the destiny as described in Deuteronomy very clearly.
3. Jesus was appointed by God Allah YHWH as Messenger Prophet, hence, he survived a cursed death on Cross; that proves that he was a truthful Messenger Prophets of God Allah YHWH. Joseph Smith was ignorant of all these things; so I think he did not legitimately claimed to be a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH; further he suffered the same fate; he was killed as clearly defined in Deuteronomy. He was ignorant about what happened to Jesus and Paul. Sorry; I cannot accept him as a legitimate claimant.
4. I do not intend to start any bashing of Paul or Joseph Smith; they did whatever they liked to do and I don’t hate them; yet I have to believe things in a straighforward manner; so this is what I bleive very sincerely; a statement of faith of me. Please don’t mind.
You are a nice friend.
I love Jesus and Mary as beautifully and truthfully described in Quran.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Note:
The above is my response to comments of Markparker1 , which could be accessed and read at:
Collin Messer says:
Paarsurrey
It seems to me that you are saying that because Paul and the other apostles/disciples were sinful that their words are meaningless?
First of all, all scripture is “God breathed”, meaning that it is inerrant and in line with God’s will.
If I am wrong in my assumption then I apologize and maybe you could clarify for me.
Collin
Paarsurrey says:
Hi friend Collin Messer
Thank you for visiting my blog and commenting here. You are always welcome to comment; even if your comments are differing with me; it adds to our knowledge and friendship anyway. Please feel free to express yourself fully.
I respect your faith.
I don’t mean that because Paul and the other apostles/disciples were sinful so their words always have to be meaningless; yet what you would do if their words are actually found to have no divine credulity. We cannot take everything they said to be divine or for granted.
I don’t see any merit in them to describe that whatever they wrote in their scriptures was “God breathed”. Jesus never said that whatever these disciples said is to be believed truthful. Even before Jesus himself, they said things which Jesus did not like. They were supposed to be faithful with Jesus that is why they are called disciples; but they deserted him when he needed them; they fled away from the scene of the Cross.
Later these deserters and unfaithful people came up with stories, eulogizing Jesus; why should we accept such stories and fables without scrutinizing them. Why should we become blind; when we can see through the things with the God gifted wisdom? We can apprehend the game they played with Jesus. Why should be we tight lipped about them; while they did things totally against Jesus’ wishes? We should expose trickery of Paul and the sinful scribes, if we are with Jesus. At least I would side with Jesus.
When God Allah YHWH heard the prayers of Jesus done at the garden called Gethsemane; and saved Jesus life, and Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross. When Jesus got cured of his injuries in Joseph Arimathea’s tomb he was laid, he slipped away secretly towards India along with Mary. He was disgusted with these so called disciples; and did not take them along.
So they perhaps made up the stories disgusted, in shame and frustration.
I doubt God ever breathed anything in their ears. It was Paul who whispered, conspired and eavesdropped foul things into their ears. Moreover one could see many things in their writings where they erred undoubtedly and talked against the will of God and very much out of line; how and why should we declare them inerrant?
Paul and his associates took liberty as Jesus was not present there; he had gone to fulfill his mission assigned to him by God Allah YHWH; and he accomplished that mission successfully. Later Jesus died there respectfully, naturally and peacefully at the age of about 120 years as they say; and is buried in a tomb at Mohallah Khanyar, Sirinagar, Kashmir India.
I think this helps. This is what I believe sincerely.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Hindu understanding: When the Bible speaks of Jesus, “died” it simply means something resembling death.
Paarsurrey says:
There is an interesting dialogue between the Hindus and Christians on the above issue; I intend to copy/paste it here for the benefit of the viewers of this blog. The Hindu side of the participants, in my opinion, is far superior in understanding in the issue than the Christians. I appreciate such respectful and peaceful dialogue between members of the international comity of nations.
http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/showthread.php?p=1116657#post1116657 dated 07-13-2003
The exchange or dialogue took place in Paris, on June 15, 1974, between His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and two priests and two Christian scholars.
I have sought persmission from the above site/forum to allow me copy/paste the same here and it would be accordingly done as soon as it is received from them.
Presently I would quote only a few sentences from both sides in the dialogue to give you a taste of it :
Madame Siaude:
No. It is very important that we understand death of Christ to be a real death. The central point of our faith and our philosophy is that Lord Jesus actually died.
Srila Prabhupada:
Oh, I have more respect for Jesus Christ than you. I say, “Jesus does not die.” You say, “Jesus dies.” As far as respect is concerned, I have more respect than you. You want to see Jesus Christ dead. I don’t want to see him dead.
Paarsurrey says:
It is an important religious/spiritual issues for the Hindus to understand reality of, Jesus birth/death; where it occurred and when/how it took place.
Jesus is mentioned in Vedic literatures according to some Hindu sources about three thousand years before his birth, which highlights its importance from the Hinduism point of view also.
Christianity is spreading in differing parts of India, and Jesus death on Cross is the backbone of the present day Christianity founded by Paul.
If this backbone is metaphorically broken with clarity of thinking; then that would end their spreading there on truthful basis.
Hindus now need not kill Christians, which would be bad on their part and inhuman; they should rather kill the Theological Philosophy of Paul to save humanity from Paul’s myth; and lo there would be no Christians left!
This would be end of Paul, not of Jesus. Jesus would shine and illuminate India and other parts of the world where his lovers reside. One such lover is the writer of these lines.
I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Krishna and Moses.
Thanks
P.S
I have requested the forum indiadivind.org discussion forum to allow me copy/past this dialogue on my blog, if possible, for more public good.
Promised Messiah says:
Let it be noted that though Christians believe that Jesus (peace be on him) after his arrest through the betrayal by Judas Iscariot, and crucifixion — and resurrection — went to heaven, yet, from the Holy Bible, it appears that this belief of theirs is altogether wrong. Matthew (chapter 12, verse 40) says that just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the bowels of the earth. Now it is clear that Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; the utmost that happened was that he was in a swoon or a fit of fainting.
The holy books of God bear witness that Jonah, by the grace of God, remained alive in the belly of the fish, and came out alive; and his people ultimately accepted him. If then Jesus (on whom be peace) had died in the belly of the ‘fish’, what resemblance could there be between a dead man and the one who was alive, and how could a living one be compared with one dead? The truth rather is, that as Jesus was a true prophet and as he knew that God, whose beloved he was, would save him from an accursed death, he made a prophecy in the form of a parable, revealed to him by God, in which he hinted that he would not die on the Cross, nor would he give up the ghost on the accursed wood; on the contrary, like the prophet Jonah, he would only pass through a state of swoon.
In the parable he had also hinted that he would come out of the bowels of the earth and would then join the people and, like Jonah, would be honoured by them. So this prophecy too was fulfilled; for Jesus, coming out of the bowels of the earth, went to his tribes who lived in the eastern countries, Kashmir and Tibet, etc. viz. the ten tribes of the Israelites who 721 years before Jesus, had been taken prisoner from Samaria by Shalmaneser, King of Assur, and had been taken away by him.
Ultimately, these tribes came to India and settled in various parts of that country. Jesus at all events must have made this journey; for the divine object underlying his advent was that he should meet the lost Jews who had settled in different parts of India; the reason being that these in fact were the lost sheep of Israel who had given up even their ancestral faith in these countries, and most of whom had adopted Buddhism, relapsing, gradually into idolatry. Dr. Bernier, on the authority of a number of learned people, states in his Travels that the Kashmiris in reality are Jews who in the time of the dispersal in the days of the King of Assur had migrated to this country.
In any case it was necessary for Jesus (peace be on him) to find out the whereabouts of these lost sheep, who had, on coming to this country, India, become merged into the other people. I shall presently adduce evidence that Jesus (peace be on him) did in fact come to India and then, by stages, travelled to Kashmir, and discovered the lost sheep of Israel among the people who professed the Buddhist faith and that these people ultimately accepted him, just as the people of the prophet Jonah accepted Jonah. And this was inevitable, for Jesus had said in so many words that he had been sent to the lost sheep of Israel.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html
paarsurrey 