Posts Tagged ‘Jacob’

Land of Israel:Did Jacob own any territory to rule?

July 13, 2014

Please access the above site to know the context of discussion and to join it.


The treasure of Jacob (titled Israel) was spiritual wealth; he owned no territory to rule or to be inherited by his off-spring after his death.
Did he?
There is/was therefore no land to be called Land of Israel.

Your thought please.


Originally Posted by Marcialou

Is this the point that you are trying to make by initiating this discussion? It would be helpful if you could expand upon your statement so we can understand your position better.

Paarsurrey wrote:

We are just discussing the principled positions.

Jacob’s treasure/possessions/belonging and status consists of ethical/moral/spiritual; he left no legacy of worldly possessions.

The same could be said of Isaac and Abraham.

The legacy of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was only ethical, moral and spiritual. Their worldly legacy was not much and could be ascertained from Genesis 15:18, Genesis 23:1-20 and Genesis 33:18-20.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob definitely owned no territory to rule.

If they had then please correct me.



by Lambert Dolphin

The legacy of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was only ethical, moral and spiritual; their worldly legacy was not much and could be summarized as below from Genesis:

1. Although God promised Abraham that all the land he walked over during his life time would be given to him and to his descendants forever by Yahweh (Genesis 15:18), by the end of his life he owned only one small field at Hebron. This transaction is recorded for us in Genesis 23.
2. “After this, Abraham buried Sarah his wife in the cave of the field of Macpelah east of Mamre (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan. The field and the cave that is in it were made over to Abraham as a possession for a burying place by the Hittites.” Genesis 23:1-20
3. While Hebron lies about 30 kilometers south of Jerusalem, the next recorded land purchase was made by Jacob at Shechem, (Nablus) 50 kilometers to the north of Jerusalem in Samaria at the foot of Mt. Gerizim and Mt. Ebal:

“And Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem, which is in the land of Canaan, on his way from Paddan-aram; and he camped before the city. And from the sons of Hamor, Shechem’s father, he bought for a hundred pieces of money (note 3) the piece of land on which he had pitched his tent. There he erected an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel.” (Genesis 33:18-20)

Religion does not need immoral stories of Bible

April 30, 2013

As for as I know religion is for development of human faculties in ethical, moral and spiritual realms; and religion guides one to tread on the footprints of the founders of the religion.

Genesis narrations are so immoral at some places that not even an ordinary human being would like to do as stated therein. One has to search for jewels from the rubble called Bible; I mean moral events distinctively from the immoral as mentioned below.

Chapter 12

(Account of Abram or Abraham)

[11] And when he was near to enter into Egypt, he said to Sarai his wife: I know that thou art a beautiful woman: [12] And that when the Egyptians shall see thee, they will say: She is his wife: and they will kill me, and keep thee. [13] Say, therefore, I pray thee, that thou art my sister: that I may be well used for thee, and that my soul may live for thy sake. [14] And when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians saw the woman that she was very beautiful. [15] And the princes told Pharao, and praised her before him: and the woman was taken into the house of Pharao.

[16] And they used Abram well for her sake. And he had sheep and oxen, and he asses, and men servants and maid servants, and she asses, and camels. [17] But the Lord scourged Pharao and his house with most grievous stripes for Sarai, Abram’ s wife. [18] And Pharao called Abram, and said to him: What is this that thou hast done to me? Why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?[19] For what cause didst thou say, she was thy sister, that I might take her to my wife? Now, therefore, there is thy wife, take her, and go thy way.

Chapter 19


[4] But before they went to bed, the men of the city beset the house both young and old, all the people together. [5] And they called Lot, and said to him: Where are the men that came in to thee at night? bring them out hither that we may know them:

[6] Lot went out to them, and shut the door after him, and said: [7] Do not so, I beseech you, my brethren, do not commit this evil. [8] I have two daughters who as yet have not known man: I will bring them out to you, and abuse you them as it shall please you, so that you do no evil to these men, because they are come in under the shadow of my roof.

Chapter 20

[1] Abraham removed from thence to the south country, and dwelt between Cades and Sur, and sojourned in Gerara. [2] And he said of Sara his wife: She is my sister. So Abimelech the king of Gerara sent, and took her. [3] And God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and he said to him: Lo thou shalt die for the woman thou hast taken: for she hath a husband. [4]

Chapter 26

[6] So Isaac abode in Gerara. [7] And when he was asked by the men of that place, concerning his wife, he answered: She is my sister; for he was afraid to confess that she was his wife, thinking lest perhaps they would kill him because of her beauty. [8] And when very many days were passed, and he abode there, Abimelech king of the Palestines looking out through a window, saw him playing with Rebecca his wife. [9] And calling for him, he said: It is evident she is thy wife: why didst thou feign her to be thy sister? He answered: I feared lest I should die for her sake. [10] And Abimelech said: Why hast thou deceived us? Some man of the people might have lain with thy wife, and thou hadst brought upon us a great sin

Chapter 29

[18] And Jacob being in love with her, said: I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.[19] Laban answered: It is better that I give her to thee than to another man; stay with me. [20] So Jacob served seven years for Rachel: and they seemed but a few days, because of the greatness of his love.

[21] And he said to Laban: Give me my wife; for now the time is fulfilled, that I may go in unto her.[22] And he, having invited a great number of his friends to the feast, made the marriage. [23] And at night he brought in Lia his daughter to him, [24] Giving his daughter a handmaid, named Zelpha. Now when Jacob had gone in to her according to custom when morning was come he saw it was Lia:

These are the deeds of people who were supposed to be under covenant from God; and  they were to distribute blessings to their off-spring and were to spread in the world.

If their character is moral; then please define as to what is immoral.

I know this has nothing to do with Abraham, Isaac, Lot and Jacob; it is the fabrication of the storytellers who narrated the oral tradition and to attract the audience they made them up . When oral tradition was committed to writing these were got added up by the scribes.

Allah forgives all sins. Verily, He is Most forgiving, Ever Merciful

May 8, 2009

Ivarfjeld says:

How will we manage to escape from our sins?

Paarsurrey says:

The sins are forgiven by God Allah YHWH when a sinner repents over his mistakes, asks forgiveness from God Allah YHWH and resolves not to do it again; this is a natural process, observed in every family, the parents forgiving the wrong doing of their sons and daughters.

If God forgives the sins then it is as if no sins were committed altogether.

This is established from OTBible right from Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Jonah and John the Baptist. None amongst them said plainly that the forgiveness of sins would remain suspended till Jesus dies on the Cross. Not even Jesus said this things; it is only a weird and tricky theological philosophy of the cunning and sinful Paul that describes this new mythical creed of forgiveness of sins of the people depending on Jesus dieing a cursed death on Cross. It is only a revengeful creed, a cruel father cuts throat of his son, in the name of god, religion, love and justice. It has nothing to do with Jesus.

Quran also supports the concept of the Old Testament and confirms it:

[39:54] Say, ‘O My servants who have sinned against their souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah, surely, Allah forgives all sins. Verily, He is Most forgiving, Ever Merciful;
[39:55] ‘And turn to your Lord, and submit yourselves to Him, before there comes unto you the punishment; for then you shall not be helped;
[39:56] And follow the best Teaching that has been revealed to you from your Lord, before the punishment comes upon you suddenly, while you perceive not.’
[39:57] Lest a soul should say, ‘O woe is me in that I neglected my duty in respect of Allah! Surely, I was among the scoffers.’

I love Jesus, Mary and Muhammad.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

He does not beget; nor is He begotten

November 16, 2008


In the Bible, it is but obvious that the words, “children of your Father”, have been used metaphorically.

“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

“That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust”. (Matthew 5:44-45)

Jesus was not a physical son of God. The Bible refers to Jesus as the son of David:

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham”. (Matthew 1:1)

At another place, Jesus presented himself as the son of man:
“And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head”. (Matthew 8:20)

In the present day Bible, not only Jesus but also Jacob has been called the son of God. Jacob, moreover, has been referred to as “first born” son.

“And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born:” (Exodus 4:22)

Jesus was not a partner in the Godhead, as was not Jacob. Both of them were beloved prophets of God.


That Jesus was born without a father does not make him a son of God in any physical sense. Adam had neither father nor mother. The King of Salem, according to the Bible, was born without father and without mother.

“To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually”. (Hebrew 7:2-3)

By Aminullah Khan, Ahmadiyya Muslim Missionary, Bradford, Yorks


Paarsurrey says:

I quote from Quran:


بِسۡمِ اللّٰہِ الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِیۡمِ﴿۱﴾

[a]In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
قُلۡ ہُوَ اللّٰہُ اَحَدٌ ۚ﴿۲﴾
Say, ‘He is Allah, the [b]One and only;

اَللّٰہُ الصَّمَدُ ۚ﴿۳﴾

Allah, the Independent and Besought of all

لَمۡ یَلِدۡ ۬ۙ وَ لَمۡ یُوۡلَدۡ ۙ﴿۴﴾

He begets not,[a] nor is He begotten

وَ لَمۡ یَکُنۡ لَّہٗ کُفُوًا اَحَدٌ ٪﴿۵﴾

And there is none like unto Him.


The concept of Jesus-God of Pauline-Christianity is so inhuman, as I understand, it is neither acceptable ethically, morally, spiritually/religiously nor historically. I pointed this out in my post #1044 that Jesus being a literal and or physically God entails following :

  1. God has wife (I take refuge with Allah)
  2. that makes makes Mary the wife of Christian-God (I take refuge with Allah)
  3. Jesus was husband of his mother (I take refuge with Allah)
  4. Jesus was his own father. (I take refuge with Allah)

I don’t think this is even acceptable to our Christian friends  . Right?



The News:

One will, perhaps, love to read the following:

“Holy War”: Is it Armageddon? with its ” Peaceful Version”! 1

“Holy War”: Is it Armegiddon / Armageddon? – with its “Peaceful Version”! 1 | paarsurrey (

One will be taken aback to note that Armegiddon/Armageddon is nothing like as one would have imagined or known so far. It is not to be fought with any physical and destructive weaponry and or the lethal arsenal of the day. It is peaceful and in fact, I understand, it has already started and it is sown like a seed!

It was a debate between the Pauline-Christianity (represented by Mr. Abdullah Atham) and the Second Coming 1835-1908 , that took place in Urdu language and was published then by the name “Jang-e-Muqaddas” in 1893 ( 22 May 1893 to 5 June 1893) in the then British India and has been recently translated and published in English by the name “The Holy War”:

The Holy War — A DEBATE BETWEEN ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY — Jang-e-Muqaddas (


From: a peaceful Ahmadiyya Muslim


These are the days of Armageddon – the final battle between good and evil –The peaceful Version! 3 

Has Armageddon already started with the advent of Second Coming 1835-1908 ?– The peaceful Version! 2

being taken up to Heaven – what it actually means

July 8, 2008

David Larsen said 2 weeks ago:
You should always feel free to make comments on this site. Heavenly Ascents is open to all perspectives and religious beliefs. I thank you for sharing your opinion here.
Your opinion about Jesus’ life is interesting. I hadn’t ever really heard that theory expressed before. I understand that Muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet, but because of their strict monotheism, he cannot be accepted as a God or even Son of God.
Historically, however, Christians (and ancient Israel as well) did not share this type of belief. It has been well demonstrated, especially this past century, that both Christians and some Jews had no problem believing that God’s throne could be shared by humans who were exalted to that position. There are accounts of Enoch, Jacob, Moses, Isaiah, and many others being taken up to Heaven, deified, and given crowns and thrones to rule with God in Heaven. The ability for humans to be deified (theosis), to become like God, is an essential element of ancient religion.
Take, for example, Jesus statement in John 10:
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
This is a declaration by Jesus himself that he was the Son of God, and I think he was also inferring that all people are potentially gods, according to scripture (Ps 82:6).
Likewise, concerning Jesus, we have John’s testimony from the first verses of his Gospel:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
I don’t presume that you hold all of the New Testament to be Scripture, but for me, this is a clear declaration that Jesus (the Word/Logos) was a God, and was with God (the Father) in the beginning.
It is my testimony that I know in my heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is God, although not God Most High, and is our Savior and Redeemer. Jesus is the God of Israel, Yahweh, who guided his people in ancient times.
Again, I know your beliefs are different. That is okay. Please feel free to comment and share your perspective anytime on this site.
David (Dwd)

Paarsurrey says:

Hi davidjlarsen!

Thank you for allowing me to comment here freely.
Jesus talked in parables, it is a well known fact, that you must also believe. When Jesus talked about him and said that he was son of God, he never, in my opinion meant it physically or literally. He only meant that he was doing acts as per the commandment of GodAllahYHWH and hence he was loved one of him. Similarly when he said he was God, he never meant that he was the Creator of the world, he only meant that he was working under the plan of the Creator or Father God. The accounts of Enoch, Jacob, Moses, Isaiah, and many others being taken up to Heaven, deified, and given crowns and thrones to rule with God in Heaven, are in my opinion to be taken in the same way in the same line of thinking. When Enoch, Jacob, Moses, Isaiah; they all died they were rewarded by GodAllahYHWH in the heaven. The same is the case of Jesus; he went to heaven when he died a natural death in India, he previously survived a cursed death on the Cross at hands ofthe Jews.
I respect your faith.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

%d bloggers like this: