Posts Tagged ‘Israel’

“all the land between the Euphrates and the river of Egypt”

October 19, 2017

Thread : “Which is it? –Jesus mission”
Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Christianity and Apologetics

Post 52:
Re: Which is it?

[Replying to post 50 by one poster]

one poster wrote:

Now, this is all my opinion, and it was not taught to me by any denomination. I formed my opinions by reading the bible for the continuous, consistent, logical story which flows through it, from God’s revelation of the gospel to Abraham.

One needs to read Bible another time intently. I believe that one’s opinion is not error-free, please.
While one reads Bible a second time, one may keep among others following points in one’s active perusal, please:

1. How could one claim about Bible OT to be logical, when it just mentions the claims but provides no reasons or argument for the claims made, in its text or in the near context, to be reasonable? One must have provided the reason part from one’s own mind to make it logical. Right, please?
2. Genesis is neither the literal nor the original Converse of One-True-God, nor written by Abraham nor written by Moses. It is an anonymous narrative that has reached us doctored by the narrators/scribes/clergy to suit their own objectives. Right, please?
3. I believe one could easily observe while reading Genesis that it is written in the third-person narrative. One-True-God would have written mostly in the first-person narrative if it would have been authored by Him. Right, please?

Suffice for the moment.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Anybody, please



From Provoker Post 48 :
all the land between the Euphrates and the river of Egypt

Quote from paarsurrey1 Post 49:

Is this a legitimate way to set the boundaries of the countries in the world, please?
Is this promise valid even if the descendants of Abraham are wrong doers, please?:

[2:125] And remember when his Lord tried Abraham with certain commands which he fulfilled. He said, ‘I will make thee a Leader of men.’ Abraham asked, ‘And from among my offspring?’ He said, ‘My covenant does not embrace the transgressors.’

“Jesus mission. Which is it?” 

October 11, 2017

Which is it?
Jesus mission.

Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Christianity and Apologetics

Post 28: 

E——n wrote:
Matthew 15.24

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”



Matthew 28.19


Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


What was Jesus mission, his intended audience?

How does one reconcile the two seemingly contradictory statements?

Is the “Risen Christ” on the same page as the pre-Easter, “historical Jesus”?

Paarsurrey wrote:

Jesus’ mission was precisely and specific towards the Beni Israel or children of Israel:

[3:46] When the angels said, ‘O Mary, Allah gives thee glad tidings of a word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;
[3:49] “And He will teach him the Book and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel;
[3:50] “And will make him a Messenger to the children of Israel (to say): ‘I come to you with a Sign from your Lord, which is, that I will fashion out for you a creation out of clay after the manner of a bird, then I will breathe into it a new spirit and it will become a soaring being by the command of Allah; and I will heal the night-blind and the leprous, and I will quicken the dead, by the command of Allah; and I will announce to you what you will eat and what you will store up in your houses. Surely, therein is a Sign for you, if you be believers.
[3:51] ‘And I come fulfilling that which is before me, namely, the Torah; and to allow you some of that which was forbidden you; and I come to you with a Sign from your Lord; so fear Allah and obey me.
[3:52] ‘Surely, Allah is my Lord and your Lord; so worship Him: this is the right path.’ ”
Jesus was a follower of Moses and was to reform Moses’ followers and set them on teachings descended on Moses from the On-True-God. Jesus mission was not to propagate creeds like Trinity which is similar making and worshiping “Golden Calf” done while Moses was alive and as per Torah Moses had to kill three thousand Jews*.
Right, please?

*Exodus 32:28

27 He said to them, “Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, ‘Every man of you put his sword upon his thigh, and go back and forth from gate to gate in the camp, and kill every man his brother, and every man his friend, and every man his neighbor.'” 28 So the sons of Levi did as Moses instructed, and about three thousand men of the people fell that day.

“An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel”

July 24, 2014

Please access the above link to know the context of discussion and to join it.

Originally Posted by Flankerl

a face palm

Paarsurrey wrote:

Please see/listen to what Miko Peled son of an ex-Israeli General says:

“An honest Israeli Jew tells the Real Truth about Israel”


Land of Israel:Did Jacob own any territory to rule?

July 13, 2014

Please access the above site to know the context of discussion and to join it.


The treasure of Jacob (titled Israel) was spiritual wealth; he owned no territory to rule or to be inherited by his off-spring after his death.
Did he?
There is/was therefore no land to be called Land of Israel.

Your thought please.


Originally Posted by Marcialou

Is this the point that you are trying to make by initiating this discussion? It would be helpful if you could expand upon your statement so we can understand your position better.

Paarsurrey wrote:

We are just discussing the principled positions.

Jacob’s treasure/possessions/belonging and status consists of ethical/moral/spiritual; he left no legacy of worldly possessions.

The same could be said of Isaac and Abraham.

The legacy of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was only ethical, moral and spiritual. Their worldly legacy was not much and could be ascertained from Genesis 15:18, Genesis 23:1-20 and Genesis 33:18-20.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob definitely owned no territory to rule.

If they had then please correct me.



by Lambert Dolphin

The legacy of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was only ethical, moral and spiritual; their worldly legacy was not much and could be summarized as below from Genesis:

1. Although God promised Abraham that all the land he walked over during his life time would be given to him and to his descendants forever by Yahweh (Genesis 15:18), by the end of his life he owned only one small field at Hebron. This transaction is recorded for us in Genesis 23.
2. “After this, Abraham buried Sarah his wife in the cave of the field of Macpelah east of Mamre (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan. The field and the cave that is in it were made over to Abraham as a possession for a burying place by the Hittites.” Genesis 23:1-20
3. While Hebron lies about 30 kilometers south of Jerusalem, the next recorded land purchase was made by Jacob at Shechem, (Nablus) 50 kilometers to the north of Jerusalem in Samaria at the foot of Mt. Gerizim and Mt. Ebal:

“And Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem, which is in the land of Canaan, on his way from Paddan-aram; and he camped before the city. And from the sons of Hamor, Shechem’s father, he bought for a hundred pieces of money (note 3) the piece of land on which he had pitched his tent. There he erected an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel.” (Genesis 33:18-20)

Jesus was not a crazy man to claim divinty

January 22, 2010

Hi friend Aaron

You say “The punishment for blasphemy, according to Mosaic Law, was death (Leviticus 24:16”.

Let us see what is mentioned in the verses quoted by you.

Leviticus 24:10-20

10 And behold there went out the son of a woman of Israel, whom she had of an Egyptian, among the children of Israel, and fell at words in the camp with a man of Israel.
11 And when he had blasphemed the name, and had cursed it, he was brought to Moses: (now his mother was called Salumith, the daughter of Dabri, of the tribe of Dan:) 12 And they put him into prison, till they might know what the Lord would command. 13 And the Lord spoke to Moses, 14 Saying: Bring forth the blasphemer without the camp, and let them that heard him, put their hands upon his head, and let all the people stone him. 15 And thou shalt speak to the children of Israel: the man that curseth his God, shall bear his sin:
16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die: all the multitude shall stone him, whether he be a native or a stranger. He that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die. 17 He that striketh and killeth a man, dying let him die. 18 He that killeth a beast, shall make it good, that is to say, shall give beast for beast. 19 He that giveth a blemish to any of his neighbours: as he hath done, so shall it be done to him: 20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, shall he restore. What blemish he gave, the like shall he be compelled to suffer.

Now we look into the verses as mentioned by you.

1. Now the passage mentions the man “he had blasphemed the name, and had cursed it”, it does not say with transparency that the man claimed to be God; he cursed God as is written there and that does not make one claimant of divinity, for sure.
2. So I don’t think that you have been able to quote any appropriate verse for punishment of a claimant of God from Moses.
3. Unless you mention such a verse; I don’t think that there was any punishments of claiming a god; as it is obviously a crazy claim for a human being; does not involve any punishment in this world as there is no ambiguity in it.
4. How could Jesus make such a crazy claim? And why should he when he was not a god; he did not die on Cross and like Moses who migrated from Egypt to Arabian Peninsula to save his life; so did Jesus, he was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position and later when he recovered from the injuries, secretly, he made good his escape to India; so like Moses he was only a Prophet of God.
5. If as you say (though it is totally incorrect) that Jesus claimed literal divinity; then the Jews should have insisted that Jesus be stoned in the public as per the Law of Moses; they preferred to hang him on the Cross, just to prove that he was a cursed man; and that Jesus was not, he was Chosen-One of God and His beloved.

Please find some transparent verses from Moses in the issue to strengthen your claim.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks and regards.

“Pashtun clue to lost tribes of Israel”

January 20, 2010

Pashtun clue to lost tribes of Israel

• Rory McCarthy, Jerusalem
• The Observer, Sunday 17 January 2010
• Article history

Genetic study sets out to uncover if there is a 2,700-year-old link to Afghanistan and Pakistan

Israel is to fund a rare genetic study to determine whether there is a link between the lost tribes of Israel and the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and northern Pakistan.

Historical and anecdotal evidence strongly suggests a connection, but definitive scientific proof has never been found. Some leading Israeli anthropologists believe that, of all the many groups in the world who claim a connection to the 10 lost tribes, the Pashtuns, or Pathans, have the most compelling case. Paradoxically it is from the Pashtuns that the ultra-conservative Islamic Taliban movement in Afghanistan emerged. Pashtuns themselves sometimes talk of their Israelite connection, but show few signs of sympathy with, or any wish to migrate to, the modern Israeli state.

Now an Indian researcher has collected blood samples from members of the Afridi tribe of Pashtuns who today live in Malihabad, near Lucknow, in northern India. Shahnaz Ali, from the National Institute of Immuno­haematology in Mumbai, is to spend several months studying her findings at Technion, the Israel Institute of Technology, in Haifa. A previous genetic study in the same area did not provide proof one way or the other.

Paarsurrey says:

I have provided the link and some starting passages from a very interesting subject on the Lost Tribes of Israel. The whole article should be read by accessing the link.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


Jesus was not Son of God: Usage of Old Testament

November 24, 2009

Jesus was not Son of God: Usage of Old Testament

Hi friends

The Christians say that Jesus was told in Torah and the Gospels as son of god hence he was son of God, literally.
This is wrong and is against the usage of Torah and the Gospel as in them these words have not been used for Jesus exclusively but these words have been used hundreds of time for other men also and the Christians don’t admit hem as son of god. Jesus was mentioned a s son of god so it has been mentioned for others


Exodus 4:22.
And thou shalt say to him: Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn. Israel is my son, my firstborn.
Psalms 88:21-26
21 I have found David my servant: with my holy oil I have anointed him. 22 For my hand shall help him: and my arm shall strengthen him. 23 The enemy shall have no advantage over him: nor the son of iniquity have power to hurt him. 24 And I will cut down his enemies before his face; and them that hate him I will put to flight. 25 And my truth and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
26 And I will set his hand in the sea; and his right hand in the rivers. 27 He shall cry out to me: Thou art my father: my God, and the support of my salvation. 28 And I will make him my firstborn, high above the kings of the earth.
So, in the usage of Bible all righteous and loved – ones of God have been mentioned as son of god; nothing special for Jesus.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Why Jesus, after his escape from the Cross, came to India?

October 20, 2008

• Why Jesus, after his escape from the Cross, came to India?
• Jesus’ office required of him to search for the ten tribes of Israel
• Jesus came to India in search of Lost Sheep of Israel
• finding the Lost Sheep; Jesus conveyed them his divine message
• Jesus’ mission was to preach to the Lost Sheep of Israel

Promised Messiah 1835-1908 says:

The question naturally arises, why Jesus after his escape from the Cross, came to this country what induced him to take such a long journey? It becomes necessary to answer this question in some detail. I have already said something about it, nevertheless, I think it would be helpful to set out the entire topic in this book.

Let it be noted, therefore, that it was extremely necessary, by reasons of his office as a divine messenger, for Jesus (on whom be peace) to have journeyed towards the Punjab and its neighbourhood, for the ten tribes of Israel, who in the Gospels have been called the Lost Sheep of Israel, had migrated to this country, a fact which is not denied by an historian. It was necessary, therefore, that Jesus (on whom be peace) should have journeyed to this country and, after finding the Lost Sheep, he should have conveyed to them his divine message.

If he had not done so, his purpose would have remained unfulfilled, for his mission was to preach to the Lost Sheep of Israel; his passing away from the world without seeking these lost sheep and, after finding them, teaching them the way to salvation, would have been like the case of a man who had been charged by his king to go to a wild tribe in order to dig a well and supply them with water, but who goes instead to some other place, spends three or four years there and takes no steps to search for the tribe. Does such a man carry out the command of the king? No, not in the least; the man cares not for that tribe: he merely looks to his own comfort.

Paarsurrey says:

Everybody reading the above passage is welcome to make any peaceful and rational comments from his revealed book, so that the truth prevails and wins. Even differing voices are also welcome.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim