Posts Tagged ‘Hot Debate’

Bahaullah followers’ with such acts only put dust in the eyes of people

April 27, 2019

Religious Forums

#51 paarsurrey

Last edited: Yesterday at 3:04 PM

Then Bahaullah would have not invented a “New Religion” later proclaimed to be “Bahaism”. Bahaullah followers’ are doing such acts only to put dust in the eyes of Muslims. Even if they cease doing it, these will have no effects on Islam/Quran/Muhammad. It is their “love and sales” technique as our friend @sixx told us, please.
Other religions followers will give there own defense, I am not there to defend them. For instance our friend @xxxxxxx can defend their own religion “Judaism”, if he likes it to do, no compulsion, please.


When and where Baha’ullah took Bahaullah’s Covenant?

April 24, 2019

Blog post# 2225

Religious Forums

#1 paarsurrey

When (the date/month/year) and where Baha’ullah took Bahaullah’s Covenant?
Or Bahaullah never took any covenant, please?

Thread open to all religions and no-religions, please.
Absolutely no restrictions to anybody, please.


#4 paarsurrey

Please don’t be angry. It is a simple question. I checked it on the internet but couldn’t find it.
Please read post #3 from our friend Txxxxxxxxx he also could not find it and did not mention it.
Hello our friend Tony Bristow-Stagg!, is the information in post #2 above sufficient or you have to add something to it, please?
Sorry, why there are two different dates/months (April 21,May 2), please?
Was there a ceremony held to get accordance from the followers by Bahaullah.If, yes, please mention.
I get the location/place however now from the internet:
The Garden of Ridván (literally garden of paradise) or Najibiyyih Garden[1] was a wooded garden in what is now Baghdad‘s Rusafa District, on the banks of the Tigris river. It is notable as the location where Bahá’u’lláh, founder of the Bahá’í Faith, stayed for twelve days from April 21 to May 2, 1863.
Garden of Ridván, Baghdad – Wikipedia

We are in a friendly discussion for finding the truth in the matters, please?


#9 paarsurrey

I didn’t know of “Dawnbreakers” and checked on the internet for it as our friend @sxxxxxxxxxxxx wants me to do, and I find:

“Mullá Husayn, having acquitted himself of the obligation he felt to urge and awaken his fellow-disciples, set out from Karbilá for Najaf. With him were Muhammad-Hasan, his brother, and Muhammad-Báqir, his nephew, both of whom had accompanied him ever since his visit to his native town of Bushrúyih, in the province of Khurásán. Arriving at the Masjid-i-Kúfih, Mullá Husayn decided to spend forty days in that place, where he led a life of retirement and prayer. By his fasts and vigils he prepared himself for the holy adventure upon which he was soon to embark. In the exercise of these acts of worship, his brother alone was associated with him, while his nephew, who attended to their daily needs, observed the fasts, and in his hours of leisure joined them in their devotions.

This cloistered calm with which they were surrounded was, after a few days, unexpectedly interrupted by the arrival of Mullá ‘Alíy-i-Bastamí, one of the foremost disciples of Siyyid Kázim. He, together with twelve other companions, arrived at the Masjid-i-Kúfih, where he found his fellow-disciple Mullá Husayn immersed in contemplation and prayer. Mullá ‘Alí was endowed with such vast learning, and was so deeply conversant with the teachings of ShaykhAhmad, that many regarded him as even superior to Mullá Husayn. On several occasions he attempted to enquire from Mullá Husayn as to his destination after the termination of the period of his retirement. Every time he approached him, he found him so wrapt in his devotions that he felt it impossible to venture a question. He soon decided to retire, like him, for forty days from the society of men. All his companions followed his example with the exception of three who acted as their personal attendants.
Bahá’í Reference Library – The Dawn-Breakers: Nabíl’s Narrative of the Early Days of the Bahá’í Revelation, Pages 47-97

Quite interesting!
Who is this Mullá Husayn, please? Is he a Muslim divine/clergy/priest, please?


Rxxxxxxxxx said: 

#13 paarsurrey

Thanks for the kind words friend @Raaaaaaaaaa. I was reading Kitab-i-Iqan as advised to me by the Bahaullah’s followers here. It will be nice of one if one also reads Iqan, there are points in it about the God-Head of Bahaullah etc, which one may like to attend to. A joint study of it may “reveal” many good points and enrich one’s experience as a Rabbi. Done?,please.
I was actually thinking about you some days ago, and here one is.



Did Bahaullah renounce Islam and convert to no-religion?

April 24, 2019

Blog Post # 2224

Religious Forums

#45  paarsurrey

Last edited: Yesterday at 1:57 PM

I understand that Bab was Shayki /Esoteric/Mysticism Twelver Shia Muslim and Bahaullah became his follower.
In that case the question remains to be answered, when did Bahaullah renounce Muslim and convert to no-religion, please?


#50 paarsurrey

Bab did not renounce Islam, there  is a friend in the Forum who is a Babi, but he is a strong Muslim. I understand Bab used to pray/formal-Salat as other Shia-Muslim use to do, Bab did not renounce Islam, believed both parts of the Kalima (1.Oneness of God and 2.prophet-hood of Muhammad ).
It means that Bahaullah remained a no-religion man

  1. between the period , he left religion-Islam in the pre-Iqan period and the Iqan-period.
  2. Till his followers announced Bahaullah to be follower of Bahaism in the post-Iqan period, please.


#57 paarsurrey

It is important to know:

  1. When one joins Islam one openly with his words recites Kalima (1. Acknowledges Oneness of God and 2.prophet-hood of Muhammad) and starts offering prayers etc. and doing the religious actions like Salat as told in Quran and done by Muhammad.
  2. In other words when did Bab and or Bahuallah cease to pray Salat like they used to do as Shia-Twelver-Muslims do or the Sunni-Muslims do.

It is the same question in other words, please.



Holy War -the peaceful version- with reasons, arguments and peaceful dialogue

The News:

One will, perhaps, love to read the following:

“Holy War”: Is it Armageddon? with its ” Peaceful Version”! 1

“Holy War”: Is it Armegiddon / Armageddon? – with its “Peaceful Version”! 1 | paarsurrey (

One will be taken aback to note that Armegiddon/Armageddon is nothing like as one would have imagined or known so far. It is not to be fought with any physical and destructive weaponry and or the lethal arsenal of the day. It is peaceful and in fact, I understand, it has already started and it is sown like a seed!

It was a debate between the Pauline-Christianity (represented by Mr. Abdullah Atham) and the Second Coming 1835-1908 , that took place in Urdu language and was published then by the name “Jang-e-Muqaddas” in 1893 ( 22 May 1893 to 5 June 1893) in the then British India and has been recently translated and published in English by the name “The Holy War”:

The Holy War — A DEBATE BETWEEN ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY — Jang-e-Muqaddas (


From: a peaceful Ahmadiyya Muslim


These are the days of Armageddon – the final battle between good and evil –The peaceful Version! 3

Has Armageddon already started with the advent of Second Coming 1835-1908 ?– The peaceful Version! 2

Hot Debate: Quran and Women

November 8, 2015
Post #2
paarsurrey wrote:

There was a discussion going on between friend Shad and friend FearGod on Quran verse 4:35 which is from the chapter “Women” mentioned in the OP. Friend Shad has expressed in a message that he wants to continue to discuss the verse. I give the verse 4:35 with the verses in the context:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 4: Al-Nisa’النِّسَاء
[4:29]Allah desires to lighten your burden, for man has been created weak.
[4:30]O ye who believe! devour not your property among yourselves by unlawful means, except thatyou earnby trade with mutual consent. And kill not yourselves. Surely, Allah is Merciful to you.
[4:31]And whosoever does that by way of transgression and injustice, We shall cast him into Fire; and that is easy with Allah.
[4:32]If you keep away from the more grievous of the things which are forbidden you, We will remove from you your minor evils and admit you to a place of great honour.
[4:33]And covet not that whereby Allah has made some of you excel others. Men shall have a share of that which they have earned, and women a share of that which they have earned. And ask Allah of His bounty. Surely, Allah has perfect knowledge of all things.
[4:34]And to every one We have appointed heirs to what the parents and the relations leave, and also those with whom your oaths have ratified a contract. So give them their portion. Surely, Allah watches over all things.
[4:35]Men are guardians over women because Allah has made some of them excel others, and because they (men) spend of their wealth. So virtuous womenare those whoare obedient, and guard the secretsof their husbandswith Allah’s protection. Andas forthose on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and leave them alone in their beds, and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, Allah is High, Great.
[4:36]And if you fear a breach between them, then appoint an arbiter from his folk and an orbiter from her folk. If they (the arbiters) desire reconciliation, Allah will effect it between them. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.
[4:37]And worship Allah and associate naught with Him, and show kindness to parents, and to kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and to the neighbour that is a kinsman and the neighbour that is a stranger, and the companion by your side, and the wayfarer, and those whom your right hands possess. Surely, Allah loves not the proud and the boastful,
[4:38]Who are niggardly and enjoin people to be niggardly, and conceal that which Allah has given them of His bounty. And We have prepared for the disbelievers an humiliating punishment,
[4:39]And for those who spend their wealth to be seen of men, and believe not in Allah nor the Last Day. And whoso has Satan for his companion, let him remember that an evil companion is he.
[4:40]And what harm would have befallen them, if they had believed in Allah and the Last Day and spent out of what Allah has given them? And Allah knows them full well.


Post #160


leibowde84 said :But, what about owning property jointly as husband and wife legally? Can you address that please?

Post #164

paarsurrey responded:

In a tribal society most often if not always in head of the society the office of the religious head as well as of the government head combine in one person. In West due to the democracy both are separate, here Quran/Islam/Muhammad solved it in another way:
[4:59] Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
[4:60] O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and HisMessenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.
Every Muslim has to abide by the law or by the constitution of a land one lives in. And the constitution of every country could be changed if it is against the interest/benefit of its people.
It is for this that the truthful Muslims face no problem in any country of the world in this connection.


Post #167

Why do you consider wives to be dependent then?

Post #171
Paarsurrey wrote:

One who does not work has has to be dependent on somebody? Isn’t it correct?

Post #174
 Husband and wife are mutually dependent I guess. It certainly isn’t a one way street. And, in many cases, wives are the breadwinner or both husband and wife are. Its not the 1950s anymore. Gender doesn’t dictate anything financially anymore.
Post #177
Paarsurrey wrote:

Please read post #164 intently. It answer your questions.

Post #178

I disagree. Can you explain how it answers my question?

Post #179
Paarsurrey wrote:

In a tribal society usually that is not the case. Ladies cannot till the soil with bulls, it is too tiresome.
Hope it helps.

Post #180

Then, recognizing that those distinctions are irrelevant now, shouldn’t we just ignore them? I still don’t understand why you would adhere to the principal after recognizing it is out of date.

Post #181

Paarsurrey wrote:

I never said it is out of date. There are till tribal societies in the world.
Islam is a dynamic religion, it is valid to every society. Where church/mosque and state are separate, Quran clearly makes room as to how the Muslims would behave in that society, where they are in one hand as to how the things would be done there.
The verses are very clear in this connection, therefore, please read Post #164 intently, if you may.

Post #184

I did. It doesn’t say anything about wives being dependants.

Paarsurrey says:

There is no need to jointly owning the property.
If they trust one another as husband and wife, they could have separate properties which they have acquired from their parents or what they, each of them, have purchased from their earnings and should not devour one another’s properties as mentioned in verse Quran [4:30].
Of course there is no harm if they use each other’s property together as long as they love one another as husband and wife (or wife and husband)along-with their children as a family.

Discussion forum <>Thread: “Quran and women”.

Please click the Post #164 to view, to comment and or join discussion on the topic.

%d bloggers like this: