Posts Tagged ‘History’

History creates no facts

November 26, 2015
Post #60

History creates no facts it only provides opinions of the historians.
Regards

Post #63

Thanks for agreeing with one of the aspect of my post.
I agree with the support that archaeology provides to history/historians; it also shows how poor history/historian would be without that. Nevertheless, events are more than that, and that even both of them combined cannot cover to make a fact.
Regards

Post #64

I am a humble ordinary person, I am neither proud nor I get impressed with those who are proud.
Regards

Post #66
Paarsurrey wrote:

Regards

ReligiousForums.com

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/scientists-or-historians-specialists-in-their-fields-might-be-quacks-in-religion.181936/page-3#post-4520877

“I see no value in atheism”

May 5, 2015

One could view my post on < http://www.religiousforums.com >and comment on it.

Post #780

Paarsurrey wrote:The sources given in the map are not facts.

The title of the map is “Check out this excellent diagram that maps how world religions have changed and developed, from the beginning of history to now“. The religions have existed from the inception, they existed in the pre-historic periods and have continued to date.

Regards

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/i-see-no-value-in-atheism.176319/page-39#post-4275472

History and or science cannot even together confer on Jesus godhead or son-ship of god

March 11, 2014

Please view Paarsurrey comments on the blog “Is there a God?” for your valuable opinion, even if you differ.

“Is there a God?”
“Welcome to atheists (and others)”

http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/about/welcome-to-atheists-and-others/
http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/about/welcome-to-atheists-and-others/#comment-8802

paarsurrey
MAR 11, 2014 @ 12:09:43

@unkleE: MAR 11, 2014 @ 02:12:43

“I think we can have reasonable confidence in their conclusions, just as we can have reasonable confidence in the conclusions of scientists.” Unquote

I think it is knowledge through Revelation which primarily guides us in the ethical, moral and spiritual realms. History or science cannot make a mortal one an Immortal one. Even if there would be persons who rely on history or science as a perfect guide; and they say with consensus, they cannot make one a god.

So with reasonable confidence by which you mean a controversial simple majority ,it can guide us little in such prime issue of Christianity as to confer on Jesus godhead or son-ship of god which even Jesus did not claim in a very straightforward manner; I think it would be most unwise.

And it is against the core teachings of Jesus; why go against him to make him a god or son of god?

Thanks

Christians should accept core teachings of Jesus

March 10, 2014

Please view Paarsurrey comments on the blog “Is there a God?” for your valuable opinion, even if you differ.

“Is there a God?”
“Welcome to atheists (and others)”

http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/about/welcome-to-atheists-and-others/#comment-8800

paarsurrey
MAR 10, 2014 @ 22:38:22

@unkleE:MAR 08, 2014 @ 23:33:33
“Do I take it from your answer that you don’t accept what the scholars say about history and Jesus?” Unquote

Hi unkleE

I think it is a strange question.

History is not 100% truthful, as you know; there are always scholars differing with other scholars of history.

If the Christians don’t accept what they believe to be Jesus’ (their god or son of god) words expressing his own core teachings where he quoted and referred to OT, Moses, and prophets; how they think others would accept what lesser scholars have written about history and Jesus?

Moreover history is not written only in Europe that Jesus never visited; history is also written in other countries where Jesus and Mary and other disciples of Jesus actually visited. Will that be acceptable to you? Please.

To believe in history or scholars of history is not a prime article of faith or a pillar of faith of Islam:

Articles of Faith

• Unity of God
• His Angels
• His Books
• His Prophets
• The Last Day
• Divine Decree

Five Pillars of Islam

• Kalima
• Prayer
• Fasting
• Zakaat
• Hajj

http://www.alislam.org/

Is believing in history or scholars of history the prime tenet of Christianity?

I don’t think so

Thanks and regards

Why history does not support Christians?

March 8, 2014

Please view Paarsurrey comments on the blog “Is there a God?” for your valuable opinion, even if you differ.

“Is there a God?”
“Welcome to atheists (and others)”
http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/about/welcome-to-atheists-and-others/
http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/about/welcome-to-atheists-and-others/#comment-8762

paarsurrey
MAR 08, 2014 @ 16:50:43

History is written by humans of the humans; there is only One-True-God so there is no history of any god; if one insists then one’s concept is definitely a human construct; with Christianity believing Jesus as literal or physical god or literal or a literal physical son of god, then it is a brain-child of sinful Paul; a construct of Paul’s.
With the Renaissance in the West the Westerners realized of this reality and since the Christians insisted on the godhead of Jesus so the Westerners started denying that there was no God implying deeply that Jesus was not a god or son of god; and they also denied any historicity of Jesus altogether.

This is how Christianity started giving space to Atheism etc; or losing ground to them.

I have observed on internet discussions that some Christians who were previously Atheists have reverted to Theism but they don’t defend Christianity anymore; instead they attack the unreasonableness of Atheism etc; and they are good at it.
If one denies the core teachings of Jesus (Moses and prophets) as elaborated in my previous comments; then a Christian has to leave NT Bible and in distress they come to history which also does not support them for the reasons above mentioned.

http://www.is-there-a-god.info/blog/about/welcome-to-atheists-and-others/#comment-8781
paarsurrey
MAR 09, 2014 @ 22:10:38

@One Skeptic : MAR 07, 2014 @ 20:11:27

“I have always wondered why Paul never sought out Mary?”

Jesus went out of Judea and out of the jurisdiction of the Roman Empire lest he is caught again by the Jews and hanged again. He took his mother Mary along with him. Paul must have known it; but he won’t tell it lest he is exposed.

It is reported that during Jesus’ journey to India, Mary died in the way towards Kashmir and is said to be buried at Murree, a hillstation near Islamabad Pakistan.

The name Murree is after the name of Mary the mother of Jesus; one may Google for it and read so many entries on it.

Thanks

“Faith Is Not Stupidity”

March 4, 2014

Please view Paarsurrey’s comments on the following blog for your valuable opinion:

“Faith Is Not Stupidity”

http://dougsdribblings.blogspot.ca/

http://dougsdribblings.blogspot.ca/2014/03/faith-is-not-stupidity.html?showComment=1393965572610#c1931877204054851331

paarsurrey: March 4, 2014 at 3:39 PM
@ Doug B: March 4, 2014 at 6:15 AM

“Stupidity is not faith. Superstition is not religion. Asserting that we believe what we have never taken the trouble to inquire whether we believe or no, is not piety, but cant. Persuading ourselves we believe what we dare not investigate, for fear of discovering that we disbelieve, is not orthodoxy, but hypocrisy. Professing that we believe what we see to be contrary to reason, and therefore essentially unbelievable, proves not our regard for religion, but only our indifference to truth. – Alfred Williams Momerie (1848-1900), Congregational minister, professor of logic, metaphysician. ” Unquote

I liked the above quote very much.

A congregational minister with such clear and matter of fact thinking; I applaud him and also you. You have written a wonderful post based on your knowledge and experience.

Thanks and regards.

http://dougsdribblings.blogspot.ca/2014/03/faith-is-not-stupidity.html?showComment=1393968832817#c7683747009221474095

Paarsurrey says:

@ Doug B
Referring to your words “Some things just “didn’t add up”, “Others I placed on a shelf in the back of my mind and determined to keep an open mind”

Could you please tell me of these things?
May be I can help you; I am not a scholar though.

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/

Quran does not restrict sciences till they don’t interfere with ethical, moral and spiritual realms

February 15, 2014

My comments at blog: “Triangulation”: topic “Ghosts: An Atheist Touchstone”

http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/ghosts-an-atheist-touchstone/
http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/ghosts-an-atheist-touchstone/#comment-124235

paarsurrey
02/15/2014 at 10:41 am

@Takis Konstantopoulos :02/14/2014 at 6:15 pm

“There is no mention of Archimedes in the Revealed Book of the truthful religion from the One-True-God. Those who believe in Archimedes believe out of superstition; and have weak psyche. There is no mention of Japan either in that book.” Unquote

Though your post is addressed to Sabio; but the contents suggest that it pertains to me, if I have correctly understood.
The Revealed Book as clearly mentioned in its beginning is for ethical, moral and spiritual guidance for the human beings from the One-True-God; it is not a history book. It has left the science, arts and other fields, pertaining to material and physical realms, open to be dealt with without restraint till they don’t interfere with the above realms.

I think you understand now.

paarsurrey
02/15/2014 at 11:24 am

@Takis Konstantopoulos :02/14/2014 at 6:15 pm

Further to my above comments I have to add that the Revealed Book (Quran) is not a book of names of persons or places; neither it claims to be a text book of science or history. It is appropriate if one sees the world atlas to locate Japan or a list of scientists for Archimedes and of course one could Google for both. The Revealed Book (Quran) does not prohibit one to do a little research.

It is a mistake if one consults the Revealed Book (Quran) in this connection

It is not at all a superstition to believe in the existence of Japan or Archimedes.
How such a thought occurred to you? Please

http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/ghosts-an-atheist-touchstone/#comment-124240

paarsurrey
02/15/2014 at 12:32 pm
@Takis Konstantopoulos:02/15/2014 at 10:59 am

Did you open topics on “Revealed Books” and “Why Quran in Arabic” at your own blog as requested in the topic”” Reason and Passion: in religion and government and “Language & Religion as Decorations” at this blog ?

Please do it now.

http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/ghosts-an-atheist-touchstone/#comment-124241

Quran does not claim to be a book of history or archaeology

January 3, 2014

John Zande an Atheist has written a post titled “How Those Who’re Paid to Know, Know The Pentateurch is Historical Fiction” that could be viewed at the following link:

http://thesuperstitiousnakedape.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/how-we-know-the-pentateurch-is-historical-fiction-11/

Paarsurrey has re-blogged it with comments;while discussion with John Zande is going on ARKENATEN joined in to derail the discussion without adding any useful substance on the points raised in the discussion. To separate it from the focal discussion; it is given here.

ARKENATEN says:
January 2, 2014 at 6:42 pm
@paarsurrey
“Please quote from Quran where it has been mentioned that Islam is based exclusively on the historical validity of the Pentateuch. I don’t agree with you”

I would never presume to answer for John, but my own take is quite simple.

It matters not whether you agree or disagree. Your opinion is just that. Opinion. It does not alter the facts.

In the Qu’ran, the Patriarchs are mentioned. Abraham for one.
The Qu’ran is considered the revealed word of Allah via the angel Gabrielle to Mohammed.
The Pentateuch is now regarded by all except idiots as fiction. This is based of evidence.
Ergo, Muslims who continue to regard the Qu’ran the literal revealed word of god are either uniformed, willfully ignorant or…idiots.

Which one are you?

PAARSURREY says:
January 2, 2014 at 7:57 pm
How would you define the word “idiot”? Please don’t quote from a dictionary; give your own definition.

ARKENATEN says:
January 2, 2014 at 9:14 pm
I refuse to argue semantics with you.
The Pentateuch is regarded by almost every recognized archaeologist and most recognized scholars around the world as fiction.

As the characters (Patriarchs) featured in the Pentateuch are also featured in the Qura’n then the Qu’ran is also a work of fiction.

My definition of an idiot in context of this dialogue would be one who is unable to recognize the truth in these statements.
Someone like you, in actual fact.

Arkenaten wrote:

Moses in the Pentateuch s the same character as the Moses in the Qu’ran.
Ergo, the Quran is fiction and for you to deny this suggests you are an idiot.

PAARSURREY says:
January 3, 2014 at 4:10 pm
There is no restriction in joining Atheism on ignorant and idiots; perhaps there are already some out there or many if not all; I think so.

Quran does not claim to be a book of history or archaeology; if you think it does; then please quote from it.

ARKENATEN says:
January 3, 2014 at 4:58 pm
Quran does not claim to be a book of history or archaeology; if you think it does; then please quote from it.

I agree with John, the first sentence of your comment makes no sense.
However, this part I will reply to…

While you are absolutely correct that the Qu’ran makes no claims to being a history book or one on archaeology, it is claimed to be the inerrant word of your god, Allah, as passed on by Gabriel to Mohammed.

This leaves us with a rather interesting conundrum.

A) Either your god imparted false information concerning the Patriarchs and the Pentateuch or

B) Mohammed ……

There can only be one answer. Which one do you choose, A or B?

PAARSURREY says:
January 3, 2014 at 6:34 pm
Quran in the very beginning make it known that it is a book for guidance to humanity to the God-fearing and as such it should be referred to in the ethical, moral and spiritual matters. Why persist to use it otherwise?
Besides the historians or the archaeologists always do search for specific sites; might be mentioned in the Bible so the conclusion they drew was specific for Bible; it has no bearing on Quran whatsoever. It isJohn Zande’s oblique imagination or his ambition that he included Quran/Islam or Muslim in his post.
If he is a man of reason he should correct his stance.

ARKENATEN says:
January 4, 2014 at 9:39 am
No one is disputing the Qu’ran is different to the Bible. Neither is anyone disputing archaeology where it pertains solely to the bible.

The specific references the Qu’ran pertain to the characters found in the Pentateuch: namely Moses & Abraham.

Therefore, if these characters featured in the Bible are the same as those featured in the Qu’ran then it stands to reason that as the Biblical characters are now regarded as fictional then so are the same characters in the Qu’ran.

While it is acknowledged that the original word as supposedly lost by the Israelites the God of the Pentateuch, Yahweh, is the same god of the Qu’ran, Allah, who is the god of Moses and Abraham.

Whether the story has been changed is immaterial, the characters are the same, and the characters are fictional.

Thus the Qu’ran is a story about fictional characters.

PAARSURREY says:
January 4, 2014 at 4:04 pm
The Archaeologist were not digging locations for God or Abraham or Moses; they must be excavating sites mentioned in the Bible; if they did not find anything in them that is related only to the book that mentioned them that is Bible.

ARKENATEN says:
January 4, 2014 at 8:40 pm
You are missing the point.
There is no archaeological evidence to support the biblical characters and events in the Pentateuch. None.This is acknowledged by almost every recognized archaeologist and scholar on the planet.

Simply put, there was no factual information about Moses or Abraham that could have possibly been passed on to Mohammed as these characters were narrative constructs. The Israelites made them up in other words.

This means that Mohammed ……

PAARSURREY says:
January 4, 2014 at 9:10 pm
Did they, the Archaeologists, excavate the graves to find bones of Moses or Abraham?

ARKENATEN says:
January 4, 2014 at 9:45 pm
How can anyone excavate the bones of a fictional character?
Let me state this one more time. Moses and Abraham are fictional characters. The Israelites made them up. They have admitted they made them up.

Thus Mohammed …….
Do you understand?

PAARSURREY says:
January 4, 2014 at 9:54 pm
Then why excavate for nothing?

ARKENATEN says:
January 4, 2014 at 10:23 pm
They did not excavate for nothing, they excavated in an attempt to verify the biblical account.
However, there is no evidence to support the accounts in the Pentateuch.

Thus, once more. The Pentateuch os fiction and so are the characters. Thus , Mohammed ………

PAARSURREY says:
January 5, 2014 at 12:50 am
So they were not looking for Moses and or Abraham there; that is only Atheists’ imagination. They were also not looking for Torah there?

PAARSURREY says:
January 5, 2014 at 5:02 pm
Wikipedia has listed and recorded the important excavations and surveys conducted from the period 1840-2007; none of these sites is even once mentioned in Quran, so it has no specific relevance to Quran.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_archaeology

When Jesus came to India!

April 5, 2013
Soumitra Chatterjee and Aparna Sen on the sets of The Unknown Story of the Messiah. Picture by Aranya Sen

Soumitra Chatterjee and Aparna Sen on the sets of The Unknown Story of the Messiah. Picture by Aranya Sen

From the daily Telegraph of India

1. “Subhrajit Mitra’s The Unknown Story of the Messiah lives off the popular alternative theory that Jesus had travelled to India after crucifixion, along with Mother Mary, studied Hinduism and Buddhism, and died in Kashmir where he was entombed.”

2. “My docu-feature is an assimilation of all these myths and stories,’ says Subhrajit, aware that his work will kick up a controversy. ‘There is so much supporting evidence in favour of this theory in the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures and the courtroom records of Indian kings. There are references in the Quran too. But no scientific work has been done on this as yet’ .’ ”

RESHMI SENGUPTA
http://forums.about.com/ab-hinduism/messages?lgnF=y&msg=1417.1
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050922/asp/calcutta/story_5267480.asp

A matter of research for those who have an open mind.

March 26, 2013

Paarsurrey says:

I am not skeptical of my faith; there is no need to be skeptical.

I would like to differ with you regarding what you have stated about the “Jesus’s Empty Tomb”; the tomb was empty as Jesus had gone out of the tomb after when his wounds got treated by his friends. Soon after, he travelled to India along-with his mother Mary. Some of his other friends also joined him later.

Please don’t mind; this is what history tells us.

Thanks

Reflections

It’s one thing to believe in Christ when you are healthy and everything is going well; it is quite another when you believe death is imminent.

Almost ten years ago I experienced a life-threatening illness when a bacterial infection invaded my lungs and brain. Early on, my doctors thought I might have stage IV brain cancer. Since most patients in that condition die quickly, the diagnosis led me to do some soul searching. Though multiple abscessed brain lesions made thinking difficult, I lay in my hospital bed late at night, alone, and asked myself whether I really believed that Christianity was indeed true.

iStock_000002775921SmallThis introspective mood was challenging and, frankly speaking, is an experience I will never forget. I asked myself whether it was a mistake to believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Savior. I wondered what my fate would be if another religion, such as Islam…

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