Posts Tagged ‘gospels’

NTBible (or Gospels) is neither Word of God nor Word of Jesus

January 22, 2010

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=91759#p91759

Wootah wrote:

Reason isn’t native to you; is it?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Reason is very natural with me; of course, as our Quran is Word from the Creator- God Allah YHWH, has claims and reason on every topic relating to ethical, moral and spiritual guidance of human beings in it.

The NTBible is neither Word of the Creator -God Allah YHWH, nor of Jesus, so it is naturally bereft of claims and the reasons. The Claims and reason have to be imported invariably from out of the Gospels or just from the imagination. They loan it from the cunning Paul or the clever Church.

This proves that NTBible is not Word of God.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Punishment for claimants of divinity in Jews from Moses

January 22, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/jesus-had-no-claim-on-divinity/#comments

Aaron Says:

You quote from the Bible as the source for your answer. That’s great. Do you know what the Bible says concerning the charge made by the Jews against Jesus?

paarsurrey Says:

Hi friend Aaron

Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.
Jesus pegged his biggest sign with Jonah; and Jonah was only a Prophet; for just repeating the same sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god? The Catholics and Protestants should ponder over this; if they believe in an iota of reason in the NTBible.
Since you believe in OTBible, please quote the punishment Jews had from Moses for the claimant of divinity?
Perhaps that answers your question also.

Aaron Says:

Hi,

It sounds like you want it both ways. You did not quote Matthew’s Gospel about the charge Jesus was condemned: blasphemy (an example of Jesus’ claim to divine authority). But you reference Matthew’s Gospel about Jonah. I think philosophers call what you are doing the fallacy of “manufacturing facts from a theory” and/or “special pleading”. You are rewriting the New Testament to fit your procrustean bed.
Would you please explain why you don’t believe Jesus was condemned for blasphemy as it is recorded in Matthew 26:65 and why you believe Matthew 12:39-41? From Matthew’s Gospel, can you tell me what texts of the Old Testament Jesus used in His response to the High Priest (Matthew 26:64)?
Jesus’ death, resurrection, and empty tomb is good news for all who believe. Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life” (John 5:24).
Regards,
Aaron

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends Aaron

I think I had already elaborated my position regarding gospels in my previous post:

Quote: “Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.” Unquote.

If Jesus never attempted to write any gospels in Judea; how could I dare write it? It was cunning Paul and the clever Church who got hold of anonymous writings and for their own motives and after editing and naming arbitrarily, presented it as Gospels. Jesus had nothing to do with this plethora of writings. He never authorized or dictated anybody to publish this stuff in his absence when he was alive and living happily in India.

I was waiting for you response to mention punishment of claimants of divinity in Jews from Moses. Would you please respond?
May the Creator- God Allah YHWH bless you! And may He open your heart for acceptance of truth.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

The sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god?

January 22, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/jesus-had-no-claim-on-divinity/

Aaron Says:

You quote from the Bible as the source for your answer. That’s great. Do you know what the Bible says concerning the charge made by the Jews against Jesus?

Paarsurrey says:

Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.

Jesus pegged his biggest sign with Jonah; and Jonah was only a Prophet; for just repeating the same sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god? The Catholics and Protestants should ponder over this; if they believe in an iota of reason in the NTBible.

Since you believe in OTBible, please quote the punishment Jews had from Moses for the claimant of divinity?

Perhaps that answers your question also.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Gospels were written by anonymous writers

January 10, 2010

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/02/01/was-joseph-smith-junior-a-messengerprophet-of-jesus-and-not-of-god-allah-yhwh/#comment-844

ditchu says:

The bible was written by those inspired by God

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend ditchu

The Gospels were written by anonymous writers and only given names Matthew, Marks, John etc, to provide credence to them. How could you say they were inspired people? They wrote things of which they were not a first hand witness. Is hearsay an inspiration? Please don’t mind; we are discussing to know the truth. I respect your faith.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus no literal Son of God; OT does not support it

November 24, 2009

Jesus no literal Son of God; OT does not support it
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=81965#p81965

Hi friends

I submit more from the OT to establish my view point that Jesus was not literally son of god:

Psalms 81:
1 A psalm for Asaph. God hath stood in the congregation of gods: and being in the midst of them he judgeth gods. 2 How long will you judge unjustly: and accept the persons of the wicked? 3 Judge for the needy and fatherless: do justice to the humble and the poor. 4 Rescue the poor; and deliver the needy out of the hand of the sinner. 5 They have not known nor understood: they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth shall be moved.
6 I have said: You are gods and all of you the sons of the most High. 7 But you like men shall die: and shall fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge thou the earth: for thou shalt inherit among all the nations.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/21081.htm

So, the according to the usage of the Bible; the Clergy and the Priests are also the Son of God; nothing special for Jesus.
I think that our Atheists Agnostics would support our principled stance; out of their free will.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus was not Son of God: Usage of Old Testament

November 24, 2009

Jesus was not Son of God: Usage of Old Testament
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=81467#p81467

Hi friends

The Christians say that Jesus was told in Torah and the Gospels as son of god hence he was son of God, literally.
.
This is wrong and is against the usage of Torah and the Gospel as in them these words have not been used for Jesus exclusively but these words have been used hundreds of time for other men also and the Christians don’t admit hem as son of god. Jesus was mentioned a s son of god so it has been mentioned for others

Examples:

Exodus 4:22.
And thou shalt say to him: Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn. Israel is my son, my firstborn.
Psalms 88:21-26
21 I have found David my servant: with my holy oil I have anointed him. 22 For my hand shall help him: and my arm shall strengthen him. 23 The enemy shall have no advantage over him: nor the son of iniquity have power to hurt him. 24 And I will cut down his enemies before his face; and them that hate him I will put to flight. 25 And my truth and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
26 And I will set his hand in the sea; and his right hand in the rivers. 27 He shall cry out to me: Thou art my father: my God, and the support of my salvation. 28 And I will make him my firstborn, high above the kings of the earth.
So, in the usage of Bible all righteous and loved – ones of God have been mentioned as son of god; nothing special for Jesus.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

June 7, 2009

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah, the Second Coming says:

Among the testimonies of the gospels which have reached us, is the following verse of Matthew: ‘And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.’ (See Matthew, chapter 24, verse 30).

The meaning of this verse is: Jesus (on whom be peace) says that a time will come when, from heaven, viz. as a result of the power of divine intervention, there would come into being knowledge, arguments and evidence which will invalidate the beliefs of Jesus’ divinity, his death on the Cross and his going up into heaven and coming again; and that heaven will bear witness against the lies of those who denied his being a true prophet, for example, the Jews; and who, on the other hand, regarded him, because of his crucifixion, as a man accursed, for the fact of his not having suffered death on the Cross and therefore of his not being accursed would be clearly established; that then all the nations of the earth, who had exaggerated or detracted from his true status would become greatly ashamed of their error; that, in the same age, when this fact would be established, people would see Jesus’ metaphorical descent to the earth,

i.e., in those very days the Promised Messiah, who would come in the power and spirit of Jesus, would appear with all the lustrous signs, and heavenly support and with the power and glory which would be recognised.

The verse — further explained — means that God’s destiny has made the personality of Jesus and fashioned the events of his life so as to cause some people to exaggerate, and others to minimize his status, i.e., there are people who have taken him out of the category of human beings, so much so that they say that he has not yet died and is sitting alive in heaven.

The people who have outrun these are those who say that, having died on the Cross and come to life again, he has gone up to heaven and become invested with all the powers of divinity; nay, he is God Himself. The other people are the Jews, who say that he was killed on the Cross and therefore (I take refuge with God for saying so) he is accursed for all time; he is doomed to be the object of perpetual wrath; God is displeased with him, and looks upon him as a hated enemy; that he is a liar and an impostor and (I take refuge with God for saying so) a Kafir, a rank unbeliever; that he is not from God.

This exaggeration and detraction were so unjust that it could not but be that God should clear His true prophet of these charges. The verse of the gospel mentioned before points to this fact. The statement that all the tribes of the earth would mourn, suggests that all those tribes to whom the description underlying the word ‘nation’ applies would mourn on that day; they would beat their breasts and cry, and great would be their mourning.

Here Christians should follow the verse in question with some attention; they should consider that when the verse contains the prophecy that all the nations would beat their breasts, how is it that they should have nothing to do with this mourning? Are they not a nation? When, in accordance with this verse, they are included among those who are the beaters of breasts, why do they not attend to their salvation? The verse clearly says that when the sign of Jesus would appear in heaven all the nations inhabiting the earth would mourn. So the man who says that his tribe would not mourn denies Jesus.

The people, however, who are yet small in number cannot have been the people hinted at in the prophecy; they are not fit to be described as a ‘nation’; and that, people or tribe are we; nay, ours is the only community which is outside the meaning and scope of this prophecy, for this community has yet only a few adherents to whom the word ‘nation’ or ‘tribe’ cannot be applied. Jesus, on the authority of divine inspiration, says that when a sign appears in the heavens all the people of the world who, on account of their numbers, would deserve to be described as a ‘tribe’ or ‘nation’ would beat their breasts; there would be no exception but a people small in number to whom the word ‘nation’ would not apply.

Neither Christians, nor Muslims, nor Jews, not yet any other denier, can keep out of this prophecy. Our Jama’at alone is outside its scope for they have just been sown as a seed by God. The word of a prophet can never fail. When the words contain the clear hint that every nation inhabiting the world would mourn, which of these people can claim to be outside their scope? Jesus admits of no exception in this verse. The group, however, which has not yet attained the size of a ‘tribe’ or a ‘nation’ is in any case an exception’ — viz. our Jama’at.

This prophecy has been clearly fulfilled in this age, for the truth which has now been discovered regarding Jesus is undoubtedly the cause of the mourning of all these tribes, for it has exposed the errors of all. The hue and cry of Christians over the divinity of Jesus changes into sighs of grief; the insistence of Muslims — day and night — that Jesus has gone up to the skies alive, changes into weeping and wailing; and as for the Jews, they lose everything.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html

Anyone please quote from such Jews or Muslims who believe Jesus and Holy Spirit as god; I think not a single Jew or Muslim would be found

June 7, 2009

Edbooked says:

Who, other than Christianity, would describe the one God worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as three persons? Yet that is how the biblical writers perceived God to be revealed to humanity. They perceived the one
God; being revealed as creator Father, as obedient son even unto death and as consoling Holy Spirit and counselor.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend edbooked

The Jews and Muslims don’t believe Jesus as god or the Holy Spirit as god. Please quote from such Jews or Muslims who believe Jesus and Holy Spirit as god; I think not a single Jew or Muslim would be found believing such thing. Even Jesus did not believe like that.

This game started with Paul; when Jesus secretly moved away from Galilee to India, after have esacpaed a cursed deatho on Cross; Paul thought it an opportune time to bring superflous ideas to mar the simple teachings of Jesus who always followed in the line of Moses.

The deserting sinful scribes of gospels also followed Paul.

I am sorry to state; that the prsent Christians though call themselves after the Christ; yet they are followers of Paul, and not of Jesus.

What is your denomination/faith? This is only requested for clarity in perceiving you standpoint; no compulsion however. Please don’t mind.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The sinful scribes of the gospels would be ashamed of them and would have no courage to stand on a witnesses stand; they deserted their master Jesus and left him on the Cross

May 27, 2009

Wellwateredgarden says:

In a court of law, at least in democratic countries, witnesses in great measure determine the outcome of a case.

The four gospel writers document many instances where Jesus was believed by many people to have died from crucifixion and then buried in a nearby tomb and three days later was seen and recognized as being totally alive but now with a spiritual body (flesh and bones but no blood) for a month and a half before He was taken back into heaven.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend wellwateredgarden

Sorry, I don’t agree with you. None of the scribes of the four gospels would qualify as a witness to stand in a court of law in the West or in the East.

They deserted their master Jesus and fled away. I think they would be ashamed of themselves and would have no courage to stand on a witnesses stand.

How could they testify when they were not present on the scene of the Crucifixion?

They would be proved fake witnesses, in my opinion.

I respect your faith.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Wellwateredgarden has made comments on my following post :
https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/jesus-tomb-at-srinagar-in-kashmir-is-of-the-same-type-as-the-one-in-which-jesus-was-placed-in-a-near-dead-position-after-crucifixion/#comments

Muhammad showed more than three thousand miracles and made countless prophecies

May 17, 2009

~And Jesus even suffered death, despite being called ‘God’! Does God ever die?
~Jesus does not know the hour of Resurrection, and his statement to this effect is recorded in the Gospels
~It is quite probable that the books they call forged or fabricated are not fabricated at all, and the ones they consider to be authentic may, in fact, be fabricated.
~ If God is still Living as He was before, and if He still speaks and hears as He did in the past, then why should He have observed such silence in this age as if He did not exist?

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah, the Second Coming says:
How strange
that the devil subdued ‘the Son of God’ and inclined him
towards the world! And Jesus even suffered death, despite
being called ‘God’! Does God ever die? And if it was only
a man who had died, then why do they claim that ‘the Son
of God’ gave up his life for the sake of mankind?

What is
more, despite being ‘the Son of God’, Jesus does not know
the hour of Resurrection, and his statement to this effect is
recorded in the Gospels. How absurd for God not to know
the hour of Resurrection! That may be a distant event, but
he was not even aware that the fig-tree he was heading for
was barren!

Returning to the main discussion, let me briefly say that
no Divine revelation can be attacked merely on the basis
of its similarity, or partial-similarity, to a past book or account,
even if that book or account is considered to be
fictitious. When the Christians label a book as ‘historical’
or ‘revealed’, they do so without any substantial proof, and
none of their books are free from the stains of doubt and
suspicion.

It is quite probable that the books they call
forged or fabricated are not fabricated at all, and the ones
they consider to be authentic may, in fact, be fabricated.
A book of God cannot be subject to such likes and dislikes.
Their labelling of certain books as fictitious is not
something that has been proven by judicial inquiry, nor
is it on the basis of established evidence that they declare
a book to be authentic.

It is all based on speculation and
conjecture, which cannot be the criterion for judging a
book of God. The true criterion is whether the book
proves its Divine origin through God’s law of nature*
and through powerful signs. Our Lord and Master, the
Holy Prophet showed more than three thousand miracles
and made countless prophecies.

But we do not have
to refer to these miracles of the past, for, a great miracle
of the Holy Prophet is that, while the revelation of all
the Prophets have come to an end, and their miracles are
a thing of the past, and their followers are empty-handed
but for a few fictitious tales, the revelation of the Holy
Prophet (Muhammad, sa) has not ended, nor have his miracles, for they
continue to be manifested in his perfect followers
through the blessing of their obedience to him.

This is
why Islam is the living religion and its God is the Living
God. Today, I, His humble servant, am here to bear testimony
to this. Thousands of signs, testifying to the truth
of the Prophet of God and the Book of God, have so far
been manifested through me, and God blesses me with
His pure word almost every day. Think carefully, how
can we prove that a religion is actually from God while
there are thousands of religions in this world that attribute
themselves to Him?

Should a true religion not have
some distinction? The fact that a religion is rational cannot
be a proof of its being from God, for man, too, can
speak of rational things. And the ‘God’ who is only a
creation of man’s own reason is no God at all; God is He
Who manifests Himself through powerful signs. A truly
Divine religion must possess signs of being from God,
and it must possess the Divine seal to prove that it has
indeed come from Him, and this religion is none other
than Islam.

It is through this religion that God, Who is hidden and invisible,
comes to be known, and it is to the followers of
this religion that He manifests Himself. He supports the
true religion and manifests His existence to the world
through it. Religions that are only based on tales are
hardly distinguishable from idol-worship, for they are devoid
of the spirit of truth.

If God is still Living as He was
before, and if He still speaks and hears as He did in the
past, then why should He have observed such silence in
this age as if He did not exist? If He does not speak today,
then surely He does not hear either, which means that He
practically does not exist. Hence the true religion is that
which testifies that God hears and speaks even in this age.
In the true religion, God Himself informs about His existence
through His dialogue and communion.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Fountain-of-Christianity-20080505MN.pdf