Posts Tagged ‘Elijah’

John the Baptist-was not Elijah reincarnated; but Elijah in character

November 21, 2011

There took place an interesting discussion on the above topic, initiated by me, on my favorite discussion forum, the hubpages:

OP from Paarsurrey

John the Baptist was not Elijah reincarnated; but he was Elijah in character.
The Catholics Protestants wrongly believe that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated; he was not Elijah re-incarnated as wrongly understood by the Christians but he was so in symbolic terms or in character; like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the Promised Messiah of our era; those who die don’t get reincarnated or come again. Elijah did not descend from the skies physically so Jesus will never come again.

1. Brenda Durham posted

I agree with one point–your first sentence.
Most Christians don’t believe in reincarnation. At least, most “protestants” don’t…

2. Paarsurrey posted

I appreciate that

3. Couturepopcafe posted

Where do you come up with this stuff?

4. A Troubled Man posted

At it again, Parr?

5. Emile R posted

Hey paar. I don’t think you’d find many Christians who thought John the Baptist was reincarnated. Reincarnation isn’t a main stream Christian belief. I think they’d wash your mouth out with soap for suggesting it

6. lone77star posted

Would you like to help them out with the soap?

My mouth has been all around reincarnation since I left my grandfather’s ministry.

7. Emile R posted

Don’t be offended. I said not many of you guys. I didn’t say all. Anyway, it was my comment in another thread that made him rush to post this OP. I thought I’d clarify for him.

8. Paarsurrey posted

This is a point which Jesus himself explained that is why I started this thread; yet Christians don’t believe in the truthful teachings of Jesus; they prefer deviant Paul over the truthful Jesus.

9. Emile R posted

I don’t think Paul ever taught about reincarnation. I could be wrong, but as I said; you’ll find few people who strongly profess themselves to be Christian who believe in reincarnation.

10. Paarsurrey posted

My point is that Jesus knew that people will get mislead after him and would invent creeds in his name for their own selfish ends that he never subscribed to; so that purpose in mind he told them that:

1. Jesus was like Adam or man or son of man or son of Adam. This was relating to his birth which did not make him a god or son of god. If Adam was without known father and mother and that did not make him a god or son of god; Jesus born of a mother has not claim of being literally god or son of god.

2.Jesus was like Jonah, a messenger prophet of the Creator God; he was only near-dead in the belly of fish; so was Jesus who was only near dead on the Cross; both survived a cursed death of a false messenger prophet; got cured of the suffering; went to fulfill their mission to the Jews.

3. Nobody ascends to the skies; and nobody comes from the skies. Neither did Elijah ascend to the skies nor would Jesus. Neither would Elijah come again to earth nor would Jesus; for this he told that John the Baptist was Elijah in character.

None of the above was god or son of god; Jesus’ god-head was an invention of the deviant Paul, the sinful scribes and the Church in collaboration.

11. Emile R posted

Nobody ascends to the skies? I thought you guys thought Mohamed did.
Paarsurrey replies now:
Muhammad did not ascend to the skies physically; it was only a spiritual experience in time and space which is called a “kashaf”.

12. Couturepopcafe posted

paars – Please quote Jesus’ explanation.

13. lone77star posted

‘Twas a joke, Emile. Not offended in the slightest.

14. Dave Mathews posted

paarsurrey: John the Baptist was the child of Elizabeth, cousin to Mary. John the Baptist is a prophet of God who proclaims the arrival of Jesus the “Christ”, the Messiah, to the people of Israel in the Jerusalem area at the River Jordan as he baptized the people and preached repentance for their sinfulness.

15. Ms Dee posted

I disagree in that Jesus will come again, just as he left. His first coming was prophesied long ago and then was fulfilled with his first coming. Likewise, his second coming has been prophesied since long ago and will too be fulfilled with his second coming in power as King of Kings.

16. Ms Dee posted

Acts 1:11

17. Rhonda Elisha posted

Hello Ms Dee
The Holy Spirit is referring to his (descending the clouds).

18. Paarsurrey posted

Jesus’ first coming was by birth; so would his 2nd coming by birth and then achieving his status in character.

19. Rhonda Elisha posted

There is no mention of Elijah birth in Scripture he is only first addressed: In Scripture (1 Kings) “As the prophet from Gilead.” Remember: Elijah did not die! God took him as was done of Enoch: As noted: In Scripture (Genesis 5:24) “Enoch was in constant fellowship with God and God took him.” As noted: (In Scripture (Malachi 4:5) “God speaks of the prophet who will come like Elijah.” And as also noted: In Scripture (Luke 1:13-17) “The angel Gabriel explains to Zacharias as the child (Yohanan/John the baptist) being like the former prophet Elijah. This scripture is spoken in the literal; (Yohanan/John the baptist) came like Elijah. (Yohanan/John the baptist) is Elijah. Yohanan/John the baptist was created by God having the same attributes and spirit as Elijah, being Elijah. Confirmed: In Scripture ( Mattathiah/Matthew 11:7-14).

Concerning: Reincarnation
As noted: In Scripture (Job 33:29-30) “God sometimes brings a soul from the pit to live among those of the living”
This, thus, demonstrate God power to revive those from death to live again and clarifying also the existence of hell.

As noted: In Scripture (Daniel 12:13) God says to Daniel: “That he will live out the rest of his life and go to eternal peace but will rise again to share in the last days.”
This, thus, demonstrate God power to revive those from death to live again and clarifying the existence of heaven. (The promised rest).

Concerning: The existence of heaven
As noted: In Scripture (Job 33:23-24) “The Holy Spirit speaks of messengers from heaven whom sometimes intercede as a friend for man to God and God shows pity, therefore, setting that man free from death.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and it’s inhabitance.

As noted: In Scripture (8:1-2) “The Lord today resides in heaven where he ministers in the Temple.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and it’s inhabitance.

Concerning: The existence of hell and heaven
As noted: In Scripture (Luke 18:19-31) “The rich man and Eleazer the begger.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and hell. The Holy Spirit also speaks of Abraham being in the place of the righteous dead.

As noted: In Scripture (1 Peter 3:18-21) “The Lord after his death of mercy, visit and ministers to those whom were sentenced to hell after the flood.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of hell.

Through examination of scripture and the giving understanding of the Holy Spirit; many of God’s giving servants and prophets are (created) by God for his purpose of plan.
For all their mother’s mentioned were those being barren.
Several Illustrations being:

The Israelites:
Sarah was barren: God promise Abraham and Sarah a son, In Scripture (Genesis 18:19) God says: “And I have picked him out to have godly descendants and a godly household, men who are just and good, so that I can do for him all I have promised. This son is Isaac. The one to father (Esau and Jacob). Jacob whom will in-turn be the first born son of God creation of the Israelites. Therefore, Isaac being God plan of purpose for his creation of the Israelites. This gives understanding to God words spoken from Moses to the king of Egypt: As noted: In Scripture (Exodus 4:22) “God tells Moses to inform the King of Egypt: “Israel is his first son and chooses to worship him. He is to let Israel go free.” Israel representing Jacob, the one whom gained the birthright as the first born son.

Jacob wife Rachel:
In Scripture (Genesis 29:31) (Genesis 30:22) “Because of Jacob treatment toward Leah, God allowed Leah to be fertile but Rachel was barren. except in the end God pitied Rachel and she conceived two sons to Jacob (Joseph and later Benjamin).” Both Joseph and Benjamin as was (Isaac), God creation for his plan of purpose.

Judah and Tamar:
In Scripture (Genesis 38) “The child (Perez) whom was God plan of purpose from this union.” became the descendant of king David from the tribe of Judah whom united with Benjamin the sons of Isaac. (The line of the Messiah).

Prophet Samuel:
In Scripture (1Samuel) “Hannah had no children, she was barren. Hannah prays and pleads to God for a child. God answers Hannah prayer and gives her a son. (He is Samuel). And as was Isaac, Joseph and Benjamin; (Samuel) was God creation for his plan of purpose.

Yohanan/John the baptist:
In Scripture (Luke 1:1-25) “Zacharias the husband of Elizabeth wife was barren; he prayed to God for a son. God answered his prayer and Elizabeth conceived and birthed Yohanan/John the baptist). God creation for his plan of purpose.

God is supreme in all his works, man cannot comprehend his wisdom, unless allowed by him through understanding. He is the creator of all things, therefore, capable of anything; which is why we Praise and Thank God the Father his Son and his Holy Spirit for their mercy, for all men, even in their good works are worthy of (Hell).

Read: (Mattathiah/Matthew 22:29-32)

20. Rhonda Elisha posted

Typo: from above

As noted: In Scripture (Hebrews 8:1-2) “The Lord today resides in heaven where he ministers in the Temple.”
This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and it’s inhabitance.

21. lone77star posted

Beautiful, Rhonda. Some very potent wisdom.

And isn’t it humility that is required by scientist and believer alike in the search for answers? If we think we already know, then we won’t look.

If we think we already have, we won’t ask.

22. lone77star posted

Interesting opinion, @paarsurrey. I’m not sure which Catholics or Protestants you’ve talked to, but I don’t know of many who accept reincarnation. My wife is Catholic and she does accept it, but she’s rather unique. And my denomination has only one member.

Just because you can’t remember doesn’t mean you didn’t. Many people do remember. And there are many people who are delusional, too. Their delusion doesn’t disprove reincarnation, though. … -bible.php … tories.php

“But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands. Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist” (Matt. 17:12-13).

What did Jesus say? Did he say the character of Elijah has already come? I don’t think so. He said “Elijah has already come.”

One Christian website erroneously claims (as an argument against John being Elijah) that, “First, the concept of reincarnation would have been completely foreign to the Jewish mind” (

What’s funny about this claim is that it’s entirely false based on scripture and based on the fact that one modern group of Jews (Kabbalists) have always believed in reincarnation and were there from the beginning. In fact, my own exegetical research turned up the Kabbalist’s “Tree of Life” embedded in Genesis. So many Jews asked John if he was a prophet reborn. If they didn’t believe in reincarnation, they wouldn’t have asked.

Heck, the disciples asked Jesus about a blind man if he had done something to deserve being “born” blind. Yep, reincarnation.

Church father, Origen, talked about reincarnation (transmigration of souls), but 200 years later, he was declared “anathema.” Basically, the church outlawed “reincarnation.”

And reincarnation isn’t such an “Eastern” idea, either. The Celts believed in reincarnation, much to the consternation of Julius Caesar.

Jesus told his followers that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. How does this hold up under scrutiny? Well, there are numerous bad hats who died of old age in the comfort of their villas paid for by the blood of others. They didn’t suffer the same sword they had wielded in life.

So, how can what Jesus said be true? Numbers 14:18 offers a clue. Only the perpetrator himself pays for the sins of the father, but 3 and 4 generations later. That’s reincarnation.

How could reincarnation be in so many places throughout the Bible?

Just look at Genesis 1:26-27. Man was created in the image of God. That would make the truer part of us “non-physical, spiritual and immortal sources of creation.” Yes, “baby gods.” Just don’t let your ego know about it.

Paarsurrey writes here:

There is no reincarnation; those who die never come again to this earthly abode.

Jesus wanted to tell the Jews that John the Baptist was Elijah in character and so will Jesus come again only in character.
It has already happened; Second Coming has taken place in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 who is the Promised Messiah in character and has come to tell the true teachings of Jesus which had been corrupted by the deviant Paul, the mislead church and the sinful scribes of the gospels and had invented new creeds in Jesus’ name or supported them.

Jesus never believed that he was a god or the son of god or Jesus was to ascend to the skies literally and physically or Jesus was to resurrect from the physically dead.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has exposed all the false creeds of Paul, Church and the scribes; all these (Paul, Church and the scribes- the authors of the Trinity) together are the Anti-Christ and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah- his advent has taken place to refute their rebellious stance against Jesus, as Jesus’ spirit wanted that it should to be proved wrong, with the brilliant arguments of the Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and this way the their false creeds/teachings/characters be killed before their eulogizers.

It is the real spiritual Armageddon, which is to establish the Unity of the ONE true Creator God and the truth of Muhammad and Quran and to support all the truthful messengers prophets in all regions of the world, with peace, love and reasonable dialogue by convincing hearts and souls.

Hubpages is a good discussion site; one could comment there or here in this blog; comments are most welcome.

Until the time when Jesus of Bible decided to commit suicide, we find an element of righteousness and godliness among the Christians; after the crucifixion their carnal passions burst forth like a river which breaks its banks and inundates the land

May 13, 2009

~Crucifixion served no purpose
~Jews, and all reasonable people, consider Jesus’ ascension to be no more than a fable

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1838-1908 says:

But we never observe in the Divine law of nature that ‘A’ hits his
own head with a stone and this cures the headache of ‘B’.
We are, therefore, at a loss to understand how people can
acquire inner purification through the suicide committed
by the Messiah. Is there any law or philosophy which can
make us understand how the Messiah’s blood could have
cleansed the inner impurities of other people?

Our observation
is, in fact, opposed to this principle, because, until
the time when the Messiah decided to commit suicide, we
find an element of righteousness and godliness among the
Christians. After the crucifixion, however, their carnal
passions burst forth like a river which breaks its banks
and inundates the land.

There is no doubt that even if this suicide on the part of the
Messiah was deliberate, it was quite needless. If he had,
instead, spent his life in preaching and exhortation, he
would have done a lot of good for God’s creation. But this
act did not serve them in any way. Yes, if the Messiah had
indeed come back to life after his suicide, and had ascended
to heaven before the very eyes of the Jews, they
would surely have believed in him. But, as things stand, the
Jews, and all reasonable people, consider the Messiah’s
ascension to be no more than a fable.

The doctrine of Trinity is also rather peculiar. Has anyone
ever heard of something being permanently and perfectly
‘three’ and ‘one’ at the same time? Or that one God should
be as perfect as three Gods? Christianity is indeed a
strange religion, which errs at every step.

And, not content with all this darkness, it has set a seal on
all future revelation. According to the Christian belief, it
is no longer possible to correct the errors contained in the
Gospels through fresh revelation, because they believe
Divine revelation to be a thing of the past. Everything
now comes to rest upon individual opinion which can
never be free from ignorance and darkness.

It is, in fact,
impossible to count the absurdities that are to be found in
the Gospels, like the deification of a humble man, proposing
the Messiah’s crucifixion as a penalty for sins
committed by others, banishing him to hell for three days,
and declaring him to be God while attributing weakness
and falsehood to him at the same time!

There are many
passages in the Gospels which prove that the Messiah —
God forbid—was guilty of falsehood. For example, he
promised a certain thief that he would break fast with him
in heaven that very day, but, in breach of his promise, he
went to hell and stayed there for three days. It is also written
in the Gospels that the devil took the Messiah from
place to place in order to tempt him. Is it not strange that
the Messiah, being ‘God’, was not immune to satanic
temptations, and that the devil had the cheek to tempt Him
at all!

This is quite a unique philosophy! If the devil had
indeed visited the Messiah, it would have provided him an
excellent opportunity to show him to the Jews, as they
were strongly opposed to his claim of Prophethood. The
sign of the true Messiah, which had been mentioned in the
Book of Malachi, was that the Prophet Elijah* would return
to the world before his coming, but since Prophet
Elijah did not return, the Jews have called Jesus a liar
and an impostor to this day. And the Christians are at a
loss to counter this argument of the Jews.

The Jews also say that the account of the devil calling
upon the Messiah is a sign of insanity, and that many insane
people experience such hallucinations and
nightmares. An English scholar has said that this visitation
of the devil means that the Messiah received satanic
revelations on three occasions, but remained unmoved by
them, and that in one of them he was urged to renounce
God and submit himself wholly to Satan.
* In those days, the Jews were awaiting the second advent of the Prophet
Elijah and his descent from heaven, exactly as our simple-minded maulawis
these days are waiting for Jesus to descend from heaven. Jesus
interpreted the prophecy of Prophet Malachi differently, but the Jews do not
believe him to be a true Prophet to this day because Elijah never
descended from heaven. And they have met hell due to this belief. Today
Muslims are the victims of the same delusion, in complete imitation of the
Jews. This has nevertheless served to fulfil a prophecy of the Holy
Prophet , Muhammad (sa). [Author]

The Evangelists (Matthew, Mark, John and Luke) simply played with the teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament

May 10, 2009

Jesus of Bible is Jesus made from wax molded at whims of the Evangelists (Matthew, Mark, John and Luke)

Michelle says:

The statement of Scripture the average Jewish young man or woman was brought up on was Deut.6:4: “Hear O Israel! The LORD our God, the LORD is One”. It is in the light of this overwhelming assertion of Jewish monotheism that a claim to divinity by any Jew is to be viewed. What an astonishment it must have caused in the minds of His audience when this Jew Who came 1500 years after Moses claimed (even if indirectly) that He was of the same essence as Jehovah! Jesus, however, delighted more in calling Himself as ‘the Son of Man’ although it is John who, more than the other evangelists dared to call Him ‘the Son of God’. To be sure, the title ‘Son of Man’ carried with it the overtones of divinity although distinct from God as seen Dan. 7:13, 14. Jesus emphasized His humanity (by the use of this title) as that was more descriptive of the work He had come to complete. But we need to recognize that His work also necessitated His being God. If He had been only human, even
His human functions could not have had such eternal implications.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend michelle, miss of bombay

I think your writeup is long; please don’t mind, I would be replying it in portions.

I respect your faith.

I have to submit with all humility that to me, Jesus of Bible seems to be a helpless person in the hands of the confused and sinful evangelists. I think they carved their own Jesus from wax; they molded Jesus the way they liked and which served their own ends; having little care for Jesus or Jesus’ teachings or teachings of the Old Testament of which Jesus was a strict follower. Either they were men of poor understanding or they simply played with the teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament. Once they deserted Jesus physically as they fled away from the scene of Crucifixion; now they seem set to take revenge from Jesus’ teachings and his acts.

They were not decided about Jesus as to what he was; they were constantly in confusion, sometimes they described him Son of Man or Son of Adam, at other times they would describe him Son of God, yet another time they would say he was god. They would say he was born of Mary and hence Son of Mary; yet he was in the beginning and became flesh; and became his own father or husband of Mary. I don’t mind that; it is their insinuation or confusion; they had a right if they wanted to remain in a state of confusion.

One wonders, if they were real disciples of Jesus; as they want us to believe that Jesus was going to die only for three days and then he was going to become a living god. What need they had to run away. Were they hidden unbelievers? If they thought that Jesus was their god; what fear they should have had from the Jews or the Romans? What maximum would have happened to them in three days? At the most the Jews or the Romans would have killed them. Jesus becoming alive after three days; if he ever cared for the disciples of Bible, must have not only made them alive from the dead but must have rewarded them suitably also; like they had seen Jesus performing the miracle of making Lazarus alive from the dead, if it ever worked as per Bible.

I think they, the Evangelists doubted and never believed that Jesus had performed any such miracle or that he was going to perform now his biggest miracle of becoming himself alive from the dead.

I see the Evangelists (Matthew, Mark, John and Luke) standing in line with the Jews and not believing that Jesus showed any miracle.

Jesus of Bible admitted that the Jews won’t be shown any miracle except the sign of Jonah, if the Jews denied or Jesus did not show any miracle previously, the Evangelists deny his last Sign.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the Promised Messiah, the Second Coming, rightly observes:

“I wonder what the Christians are so proud of! If they have a ‘God’, he is the one who died long ago and lies buried in Mohalla Khanyar, Sirinagar, Kashmir. And if he has any miracles to his name, they are no greater than those of other Prophets, indeed Prophet Elijah showed greater miracles than he ever did. In the eyes of the Jews, Jesus (as) showed no miracles at all, and it was all deception and trickery.

This statement of the Jews is corroborated by Jesus (as) himself, for he says in the Gospels, “An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, and there shall no sign be given unto it…” If Jesus (as) had shown miracles to the Jews, he would surely have referred to them on this occasion.”

The sinful writers of the Gospels were not trusted disciples of Jesus; that is why Jesus left them behind and did not take them along, when he went to India along with Mary, after being saved from a cursed death on Cross by the grace and mercy of Allah. Jesus died a respectful and natural death in India, at the age of about 120 years.

This is only what we see Evangelists doing, their tricky things, in the daylight of reason and rationality.

Jesus was a great man a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH and so were his teachings; his mother Mary was a marvelous lady as per Quran.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran, not the mythical Jesus presented by the cunning and sinful Paul and the sinful scribes.

I respect your faith; you must be guided by your own conscience freely, this is what I believe sincerely without any intention of injuring anybody else’s feelings.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus of Bible showed no signs; Jesus himself admitted before the Jews

May 9, 2009

Teachings of the Gospels—which the Christians are so proud of—are extremely flawed and ineffective

The Second Coming 1835-1908 says:

Just consider, can a person dare to give such a challenge to the whole world, while being a plagiarist and having cooked the whole thing up on his own, and knowing full well that this knowledge has not come to him from the unseen, rather he has stolen it from such and such books, and to think that no one should be able to accept his challenge and expose him!

The fact is that the Christians are extremely annoyed with the Holy Quran, for it has destroyed the very basis of their  religion. It has refuted the concept of deifying a human being, shattered the doctrine of the cross, and proven beyond all doubt that the teachings of the Gospels—which the Christians are so proud of—are extremely flawed and ineffective. It was, therefore, only natural for their tic passions to have been aroused, and their imputations [against the Holy Quran] are quite understandable.

The example of a Muslim who wishes to convert to Christianity is like a person who, having been born from his mother’s womb and having attained maturity, wishes to return to her womb and become a sperm once more. I wonder what the Christians are so proud of! If they have a ‘God’, he is the one who died long ago and lies buried in Mohalla Khanyar, Srinagar, Kashmir. And if he has any miracles to his name, they are no greater than those of other Prophets, indeed Prophet Elijah showed greater miracles than he ever did. In the eyes of the Jews, Jesus(as) showed no miracles at all, and it was all deception and trickery. (12) And if we look at his prophecies, most of them turned out to be false. Will some padre tell us if the twelve disciples were indeed given twelve thrones in Paradise, as they had been promised! And will someone tell us if, in keeping with his prophecy, Jesus(as) got the Kingdom of the World, for which—by the way—weapons
were also acquired. And did Jesus(as) descend from heaven in those very days, as he had promised?

Let me tell you that there can be no question of his descent, for he never went to heaven in the first place. European scholars also concur with this belief. The fact is that Jesus survived the crucifixion in a state of near death, and then secretly fled to Kashmir through India where he [ultimately] died.13 The teachings of the Gospels—regardless of whether they have been accused of plagiarism—emphasize only the human faculties of forbearance and forgiveness, and discard the rest. Everyone can understand that nothing which has been given to mankind by Divine Omnipotence is without a purpose, and every human faculty has a function.

Just as forgiveness and forbearance is considered a great virtue at certain times and occasions, so is retaliation, revenge and retribution considered a commendable moral quality at other times and on other occasions. Neither forgiveness, nor punishment is always desirable.

Foot Notes:
12 This statement of the Jews is corroborated by Jesus (as) himself, for he says in the Gospels, “An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, and there shall no sign be given unto it…” If Jesus (as) had shown miracles to the Jews, he would surely have referred to them on this occasion. [Author]

13 Those, who call themselves Muslims and yet believe that Jesus (as) ascended to heaven in his physical body, utter an absurdity against the Holy Quran which affirms Jesus’ death in the verse * , and precludes the possibility of a man ascending to heaven in the verse ** . How ignorant of them to hold a belief in
contradiction to the Word of God! There can be no greater folly than to translate the word tawaffa as ‘being lifted to heaven with one’s physical body’. Firstly, in no lexicon do we find the word tawaffa being translated
as such.

Moreover, since the verse speaks about the Day of Judgement, and this is what Jesus (as) will have to say for himself on that day, it follows that the Last Day will arrive but Jesus (as) will not have died, for he will have presented himself before God in his physical body before he could ever be made to suffer death. To misinterpret the Holy Quran thus is to surpass even the Jews in the art of interpolation! [Author]

* …when Thou didst cause me to die…—Al -Ma’idah, 5:118 [Publishers]

** Say, my Allah is Holy, I am not but a human being and a Messenger of God.—Bani Isra’il, 17:94 [Publishers]

12 This statement of the Jews is corroborated by Jesus (as) himself, for he says in the Gospels, “An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, and there shall no sign be given unto it…” If Jesus (as) had shown miracles to the Jews, he would surely have referred to them on this occasion. [Author]


The News:

One will, perhaps, love to read the following:

“Holy War”: Is it Armageddon? With its “Peaceful Version”!

“Holy War”: Is it Armegiddon / Armageddon? – with its “Peaceful Version”! 1 | paarsurrey (

One will be taken aback to note that Armegiddon/Armageddon is nothing like as one would have imagined or known so far. It is not to be fought with any physical and destructive weaponry and or the lethal arsenal of the day. It is peaceful and in fact, I understand, had already been started and it is sown like a seed!

It was a debate between the Pauline-Christianity (represented by Mr. Abdullah Atham) and the Second Coming 1835-1908 , that took place in Urdu language and was published then by the name “Jang-e-Muqaddas” in 1893 ( 22 May 1893 to 5 June 1893) in the then British India and has been recently translated and published in English by the name “The Holy War”:

The Holy War — A DEBATE BETWEEN ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY — Jang-e-Muqaddas (



From: a peaceful Ahmadiyya Muslim

Quran Study for Christian Friends – Page : 1557

May 3, 2009


Muhammad : the Seal of the Prophets

March 13, 2009;article=225127;title=OCRT%20Forum;article=225170

Muhammad : the Seal of the Prophets
Fri Mar 13, 2009 02:27

Ceallaigh O’Garailt (Kelly Garre:
Well, I guess we can look forward…

So, while you may profess some kind of “love” for this Jesus, it is not a true love according to him if you have not accepted him as your savior. According to his own words, no way to yahweh/allah/el/jehova, except through him.

Whitemunara says:

Hi Ceallaigh O’Garailt,

I don’t think Jesus said those words for all times. If he said for his own time and for the Jews only; that is understandable and that is OK. Since he died and is buried in India and after him

Muhammad’s advent has taken place who is the Khatamun Nabiyyeen or Seal of the Messengers/Prophets and his advent is for the whole globe.

Thus with Muhammad a new era has started and every region and every nation has to take impression from him in acts as well as teachings. So, in Muhammad’s way is inclusive of Buddha’s way, Krishna’s way, Zoroaster’s way, Moses’ way and Jesus’ way.

I love Jesus and Moses as I love Adam and John the Baptist.


paarsurrey whitemunara – an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

P.S. I have added a page titled “Ask Paarsurrey” on my blog for the questions. Please view it on the side bar of my blog for peaceful questions and discussions. Everybody is welcome; even those who differ with me.

The Messengers were persecuted to the point of killing but God saved them

March 6, 2009

paarsurrey Says:

Hi Angelpurplewings :

Now we take up next four more points of your post dated, February 27, 2009.

Angelpurplewings : The Israelites recorded their crimes in detail in their own history. Here are just a few examples from the Bible:

Angelpurplewings : (1) After the death of Solomon the state of the Israelites was split into two: the State of Judah with its capital in Jerusalem, and the State of Israel with its capital in Samaria. This was followed by a series of wars between the two States so that the State of Judah sought the assistance of the Aramacan State of Damascus against its own kinsmen. At this, Hamani the seer went under God’s direction to Asa the king and rebuked him. Instead of rectifying his behaviour, Asa was so angry that he put the seer in the stocks. (See 2 Chronicles 16: 7-10.)

Paarsurrey: So, you agree that it was an intention to kill not the physical killing. The Messengers were persecuted to the point of killing but God saved them. Asa was not physically killed, in my opinion.

Angelpurplewings : (2) When Elijah denounced the Jews for their worship of Baal and invited them to return to monotheism, Ahab, the king of Israel pursued him for the sake of his pagan wife so that he had to take refuge in the mountains of the Sinai peninsula. On this occasion, according to the Bible, he said: ‘. . . the people of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thy altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword., and 1, even 1 only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away’ (1 Kings 19: 14).

Paarsurrey: So, you can observe here that the Jews intended to kill Elijah but they could not succeed.

Angelpurplewings : (3) The same king Ahab imprisoned another Prophet, Micah, for no other reason than that of speaking the truth. King Ahab ordered that he should be given only bread and water. (See 1 Kings 22: 26-7)

Paarsurrey: Here again you can observe that the Jews intended to kill Micah but they did not succeed.

Angelpurplewings : (4) When idol-worship and moral corruption became prevalent in Judah and the Prophet Zechariah raised his voice against them, he was stoned to death in the very court of the house of the Lord. (See 2 Chronicles 24: 2l.)

Paarsurrey: Here I can see an example but it is not mentioned from a source of the secular history. Kindly quote from a source of secular history, that Zechariah was killed by the Jews.

There is some ambiguity here. May be it was the Zechariah ben Jehoiada or Zechariah son of Iddo who was killed and not Zechariah son of Barachiah.
Jesus was a human being so he could have erred to make him a perfect man perhaps.
To err is human so a perfect man could sometimes err in order to prove that he was a perfect man and in no case a god. God Allah YHWH does not err; as it is blemish to err.

In the New Testament Gospel of Matthew,[1] Jesus is quoted as stating that Zechariah son of Barachiah was killed between the altar and the temple. A similar quotation is also found in the Gospel of Luke[2]. Although there is an indication in Targum Lamentations that “Zechariah son of Iddo” was killed in the Temple,[3] scholars generally understand this as a reference to the death of a much earlier figure, Zechariah ben Jehoiada.[4]
So, I am more confirmed that though Jews tried their utmost to kill the Messengers, yet GodAllah saved them death like false ones.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned by Quran


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The Benevolent Quran clears accusations of the Jews on Jesus and Mary

March 5, 2009

Originally Posted by pvb:
LOL!! paarsurrey I have listed all the verses that speak about Jesus. No other “man” is described with all these terms in the Quran.

The Quran says Jesus is Greater than Muhammad

Paarsurrey says:


There were certain allegations, accusations and charges put forward on Jesus and Mary by the Jews. You would please appreciate that Quran has been benevolent towards Jesus and Mary and has defended their position only.

You shall have to give a clear verse from Quran which establishes superiority of Jesus on other Messengers like Adam, Moses, Jonah, David, Elijah and John the Baptist etc to start with to establish you point, in my opinion.

Kindly quote a verse of Quran with the text and the usual context (of five preceding and five following versrs of Quran) as requested by me earlier. There is no compulsion however if you don’t want to do it.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran and the accounts of the followers of Jesus as mentioned in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

Jesus won’t come from heaven as an adult ruler to this world : it is just a misconception

February 13, 2009

wellwateredgarden Says:

But, as I understand it, when Jesus comes back He will come from heaven as an adult ruler, not be born again of a woman.

“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God (Yahweh), and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.” -1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

This is actually the time of the ‘rapture’ when believers will be taken up from the earth to be with the Lord, after which will come a time of great trouble on earth for those who do not believe. Later He will come back to the Jewish nation to be their KING.

The way I see it, anyway …

paarsurrey Says:


I think that is only your misconception. Nobody ever came physically from the heaven. Those who die would never return to this world.

Jesus himself answered about this to the Jews. Jews were waiting for physical return of Elijah from the skies before first coming of Jesus. They asked about it from Jesus. Now, what was Jesus’ answer to them? Jesus told them John the Baptist was the person; one may believe it or not.

So, you should think, that you may not be uselessly waiting for Second Coming like the Jews as still waitning for his first coming. Please don’t make miss the bus, there is however no compulsion.

I love Jesus and Mary

Jesus’ Second Coming has taken place

February 10, 2009….&postcount=157I believe Jesus was never a god who became man

Originally Posted by Jay53:
I have an off topic question – what is this “Second Coming 1835-1908” Is this a person? time period? I’m just confused because I can’t figure it out based on the different contexts in which it has been used. Thank you.

Paarsurrey says:


Jesus’ Second Coming has taken place in the symbolic form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, like Elijah’s second coming took place in the symbolic form of John the Baptist, and it was acceptable to Jesus. Elijah did not come from the skies or heaven for second coming before Jesus as was prophesized but John the Baptist was declared as Elijah by Jesus.

I think it helps

I love Jesus


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim



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