NTBible (or Gospels) is neither Word of God nor Word of Jesus

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=91759#p91759

Wootah wrote:

Reason isn’t native to you; is it?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Reason is very natural with me; of course, as our Quran is Word from the Creator- God Allah YHWH, has claims and reason on every topic relating to ethical, moral and spiritual guidance of human beings in it.

The NTBible is neither Word of the Creator -God Allah YHWH, nor of Jesus, so it is naturally bereft of claims and the reasons. The Claims and reason have to be imported invariably from out of the Gospels or just from the imagination. They loan it from the cunning Paul or the clever Church.

This proves that NTBible is not Word of God.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Punishment for claimants of divinity in Jews from Moses

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/jesus-had-no-claim-on-divinity/#comments

Aaron Says:

You quote from the Bible as the source for your answer. That’s great. Do you know what the Bible says concerning the charge made by the Jews against Jesus?

paarsurrey Says:

Hi friend Aaron

Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.
Jesus pegged his biggest sign with Jonah; and Jonah was only a Prophet; for just repeating the same sign which did not make Jonah a god; how could the same sign make Jesus a god? The Catholics and Protestants should ponder over this; if they believe in an iota of reason in the NTBible.
Since you believe in OTBible, please quote the punishment Jews had from Moses for the claimant of divinity?
Perhaps that answers your question also.

Aaron Says:

Hi,

It sounds like you want it both ways. You did not quote Matthew’s Gospel about the charge Jesus was condemned: blasphemy (an example of Jesus’ claim to divine authority). But you reference Matthew’s Gospel about Jonah. I think philosophers call what you are doing the fallacy of “manufacturing facts from a theory” and/or “special pleading”. You are rewriting the New Testament to fit your procrustean bed.
Would you please explain why you don’t believe Jesus was condemned for blasphemy as it is recorded in Matthew 26:65 and why you believe Matthew 12:39-41? From Matthew’s Gospel, can you tell me what texts of the Old Testament Jesus used in His response to the High Priest (Matthew 26:64)?
Jesus’ death, resurrection, and empty tomb is good news for all who believe. Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life” (John 5:24).
Regards,
Aaron

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends Aaron

I think I had already elaborated my position regarding gospels in my previous post:

Quote: “Since NTBible is neither Word of God nor even a word of Jesus; its authors are anonymous people and have been named Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, just to add some credulity to these gospels; I believe only that statements of NTBible which are not against Quran.” Unquote.

If Jesus never attempted to write any gospels in Judea; how could I dare write it? It was cunning Paul and the clever Church who got hold of anonymous writings and for their own motives and after editing and naming arbitrarily, presented it as Gospels. Jesus had nothing to do with this plethora of writings. He never authorized or dictated anybody to publish this stuff in his absence when he was alive and living happily in India.

I was waiting for you response to mention punishment of claimants of divinity in Jews from Moses. Would you please respond?
May the Creator- God Allah YHWH bless you! And may He open your heart for acceptance of truth.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus never attempted a suicidal death on Cross

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=91723#p91723

Wootah says:

Show me how you can pay off a debt of $100 with $1 and I’ll believe you.

Paarsurrey says:

How is this question related to divinity of Jesus or the trinity? Please elaborate.

Wootah says:

OK. I didn’t expect that response!
The whole thing about the Trinity is that no Christian wants to believe in the Trinity. No Christian said and decided God was one being with three personalities. No Christian would willing do this, why would we want to? Why would we want to willingly add to a concept of one God? It is close to saying there are 3 Gods, we can see that. Can you see that no Christian willingly accepts the Trinity at first glance or willingly wants to add 3 personalities to the nature of God? (You are probably amazed at this response so far.)

If you can comprehend that Christians do not arrive at the Trinity willingly then why do we believe in the Trinity?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

I am shocked to note that the Catholics Protestants have been forced to accept Trinity by someone as you have stated and they are naturally not inclined and they must not accept Trinity. If they believe in one Creator – God Allah YHWH, they must not be forced to accept this superfluous creed invented by the cunning Paul or the clever Church. There is no compulsion in religion and it must not be forced on anyone against one’s free will.

I know that it was cunning Paul and the clever Church who first invented the creed that Jesus willingly accepted flogging, spitting by Jews on him and putting him on the cross; this makes Jesus doing suicide.

So my friend you don’t have to believe in this suicidal attempt of Jesus; as this was never the case. It were the Jews who forcibly put Jesus on the cross; but the loving Creator – God Allah YHWH, does not forsake his beloved ones, so against all odds He saved Jesus a cursed death on Cross.

After being delivered in near-dead position from the Cross Jesus was hurriedly taken to a tomb by his friends with underhand help of Pilate. There he was treated and when healed from the injuries on the cross he made good his escape to India along-with his mother Mary.
My friend neither Jesus nor any Catholic Protestant ever took loan of 100$; it is just one of the myriad imaginations of cunning Paul and the clever Church; please get out of this loan scenario; you don’t have to pay any loan. Just make good deeds and have good beliefs; and you will have your salvation.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Jesus had no claim on divinity

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4701&p=91500#p91500

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Jesus never claimed to be a god in the literal sense of the word; it is but a wishful thinking of the Catholics Protestants that they make a god out of him for nothing, just for their own selfish and easy salvation.

If Jesus sometimes used the terms god or son of god for his person he did it in the same meaning other righteous persons of Jews i.e. the Messengers Prophets had used these terms for them; no different.

John 10:34-36

31 The Jews then took up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father; for which of these works do you stone me? 33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, maketh thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law: I said you are gods? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God was spoken, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God?

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/50010.htm

This clearly showed that what he meant was only a parable or a metaphoric language; claiming to be Messenger Prophet, a righteous person. He elaborated that they were wrongly accusing him when those Jews on whom Word of God descended OT Bible terms them God; he was one like them only, so he should not be blamed or stoned..

The Catholics Protestants should come out of the trick of the cunning Paul and the Church and accept Jesus as one of the perfect men called Messengers Prophets of the Creator- God Allah YHWH.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Counting of Jesus- 3 days in the tomb- by Catholics Protestants

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/posting.php?mode=quote&f=26&p=91280

Nosubmission says:

More, Jesus said that the parallelism between Himself and Jonah was confined to the time of stay in a place: 3 days.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

Since your stand is wrong so you won’t stay even on 3 days, for sure.

Now please enumerate period of 3 days, as you have mentioned. I am sure no Catholic or Protestant would ever be able to count these three days also.

Cunning Paul and Church frustrated Jesus’ showing the Sign of Jonah; Paul had to. Paul was an enemy of Jesus; when he observed that Jesus had gone out of reach of Jews plan of killing Jesus; Paul started character assassination of Jesus; and the first casualty was Jesus ever showing Sign of Jonah; as to how the Creator- God Allah YHWH saved Jesus cursed death on Cross. Paul took it on himself to prove to the simple minded “Christians”, whom Jesus named sheep that Jesus had died on the Cross for their salvation. Paul himself could not attain salvation; what salvation could he prepare for the Catholics Protestants?

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

Bible presents Jesus as a confused man

Eddie wrote:

“Bible presents Jesus as a confused man…” perhaps you could give an example of such confusion.

Paarsurrey wrote:

Hi friend Eddie,

Quran presents Jesus as a straightforward man; who would say things in an unequivocal terms except when he was talking in parables or allegoric words, which is a form of expressions of the languages all over the world; which is understandable from the clues in the text; it is weird to take such parables as of fact or in real terms.

Jesus was a man – a prefect man like so many others in all the nations and all the regions of the world; and as such he was loved one of the Creator- God Allah YHWH that is why he might have sometimes expressed himself it in terms of son of God, if he ever said like that. He was also in perfect image of the Creator, like so many others in all the nations and all the regions of the world, which the simple minded deserting, unfaithful and superstitious disciples mistook as if he was god.

Jesus also mentioned himself as son of Adam or Son of Man; which only meant that Jesus approved that Adam and Eve were innocent ; whatever mistake they had committed, they had repented it and asked forgiveness from the Creator –God Allah YHWH, and they were forgiven. Jesus so much appreciated it he took Adam as his father.

Jesus abhors all such claims of being son of god or god or part of any trinity. These are only wrong concepts of the cunning Paul and the sinful and deserting disciples whom Jesus never trusted, in my opinion.

The confusion is not in Jesus but in the writings of the sinful scribes and cunning Paul; they projected him like a confused person, never telling things in straightforward manner.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

We must thank God Allah YHWH who mercifully saved ‎a cursed ‎death of truthful Jesus‎

http://ca.mc596.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showMessage?sMid=0&fid=%2‎‎540B%2540Bulk&sort=date&order=down&startMid=0&filterBy=&.ra‎nd=530143395&midIndex=0&mid=1_5648_3784_AKYMDUwAALO8Sn3MIASYj1pR2CQ&f=1&m=1_5648_3784_AKYMDUwAALO8Sn3MIASYj1pR2CQ,1_15‎‎57_3757_AJQMDUwAAG5tSnq2DgvQsx0us%2F4,1_2404_3680_ALgMDUwAA‎QPUSnF84gcpHSnHobo,1_3291_3676_AKYMDUwAAM42SnE7ZwUeHmtOZbs,‎‎1_4003_3619_ANYMDUwAAH1BSm2JUA8Sz207zEU,1_4911_3609_ANYMDUw‎AAS99SmyJuQlNvilAxpw,‎

Rev. Prince from Ouagadougou Burkina Faso says:‎
‎ ‎
I want you to surrender all to Christ this very moment as ‎you are reading through this email and contact us immediate ‎for immediate urgent prayer but you must wholesomely give ‎your life to Christ by accepting him as your lord and ‎personal saviour.‎

Paarsurrey says:‎

Hi friend Prince‎

I thank you for sending me the above message in e-mail. I ‎am sorry I don’t agree with me. I am ready to surrender to ‎God Allah YHWH as I am a sinner, but I cannot surrender to ‎Christ or Jesus as he was never a god. It was the cunning ‎Paul and the sinful scribes who made him a god while Jesus ‎was still alive and traveling in India accompanied by his ‎mother Mary and other faithful friends; after when he was ‎saved a cursed death on Cross by the mercy of God Allah ‎YHWH.‎

I think we all should love and follow God Allah YHWH as ‎mentioned in Quran and thank Him that He mercifully saved ‎the life of truthful Jesus. No use to surrender to Jesus ‎who died a natural and peaceful death in India and is ‎buried at Mohallah Khanyar Sirinagar, Kashmir, India.‎

I invite you to this God Allah YHWH- the Master of Jesus.‎

Please don’t mind.‎

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The Pharisees were Jews; had they noticed that Jesus had claimed to be a god, it must ‎have been written also in the book of the Jews? ‎

http://thechristianwatershed.com/2009/07/22/a-reply-to-a-muslim-the-deity-and-death-of-‎jesus/‎

Now coming to the second issue:‎

Paarsurrey said:‎

‎“The truth, in my opinion, is that Jesus was not God; he never proclaimed as such, there ‎are no direct quotes from him in this regards. God talked with Jesus and revealed His ‎word on him, He chose Jesus his Messenger/Prophet/Messiah, Jesus was not a son of ‎God.”‎

Joel said:‎

Ah, but He most certainly did make the claim that He was God. Though He never goes ‎throughout ancient Israel saying, “Hey, I’m God,” He does many things and says many ‎things that assert His claim to divinity – and the Pharisees noticed it. Let us look at some ‎of the evidence:‎

Paarsurrey says:‎

Hi fried Joel

Please quote from Jesus; not from what the sinful and unfaithful scribes, who deserted ‎Jesus when he most needed them.Later they sided with Paul who was an enemy of Jesus ‎and his friends. ‎

Jesus never could utter such words that he was a god. You say the Pharisees noticed it; I ‎don’t agree with you. The Pharisees were Jews; had they noticed it, it should have been ‎written also in the book of the Jews? Please quote from Jewish source that the Pharisees ‎noticed it.‎

Jesus denies of this claim as rightly quoted by Quran from Jesus:‎

‎[5:117] And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take ‎me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’”, he will answer, “Holy art Thou. I ‎could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have ‎surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy ‎mind. It is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things.‎
‎[5:118] “I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me — ‎‎‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them as long as I ‎remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the ‎Watcher over them; and Thou art Witness over all things.‎
‎[5:119] “If Thou punish them, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them, Thou ‎surely art the Mighty, the Wise.” ‎

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3‎A&ch=5&verse=116‎

God Allah YHWH accounted from Jesus of what the Christians only made up on his ‎behalf; and Jesus denies that he ever claimed to be god or son of god; which is only a ‎mistake of cunning Paul and the Church which followed Paul. It has nothing to do with ‎Jesus, I think.‎

Please tell me if you are from the JWs or the Mormons; kindly do not mind.‎

I love Jesus and Mary.‎

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

One should follow Muhammad as he is a truthful Messenger of God Allah YHWH

Maaark says:
‎
Your understanding of Christianity seems very shallow like you have only read about it ‎from hostile people. You say many things about Christianity but not much about your ‎own faith. If you were to convince me that Christianity is wrong there is still no reason to ‎become Islam. Can you tell me why I would or should follow the prophet Muhammad?
‎
Paarsurrey says:
‎
Hi friend maaark

I have read the Bible from cover to cover; and I think that should be sufficient for me. I ‎have never said that teachings of Jesus and acts of Jesus were wrong; I can never say that; ‎and that is what the Christianity should be. Christianity should consist of logically on ‎teachings of Jesus and what Jesus did. If the present Christianity with all its 32000+ ‎denominations is not what Jesus taught and did; sorry I would say then they are wrong. If ‎the Christians (belonging to all 32000+ denominations) opted instead to follow cunning ‎Paul, an enemy of Jesus, and the sinful scribes; you could very well understand that I ‎won’t believe them truthful.
‎
I have no claim to be a scholar or an expert. I have no blindfaith; if my knowledge is ‎shallow, I would welcome anybody who makes it deeper with rational and logical ‎arguments.
‎
I give reasons and arguments; if the same appeal you and convince you, there is nothing ‎wrong with it; if the same does not appeal you or convince you; you could give your own ‎arguments and reasons to convince me. I am an open mind; I won’t mind.
‎
You may ask any question about my faith and I would try to help you understand it.
‎
You should follow Muhammad as he was a truthful Messenger of God Allah YHWH.
‎
I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.
‎
Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The deserting and sinful scribes of Bible fullfilled cunning Paul’s or their own agenda; which was different from Jesus’ in teachings as well as in Acts

Edbooked says:

Consider this…Dying with Jesus would have been easier than carrying on the work Jesus began while being pursued under threat of death throughout the lands. Why repeatedly risk death? Such acts require courage. Dying is easy. Doing one’s duty…completing one’s mission…in spite of the threat of enemy death…takes courage some suggest requires divine assistance.

Paarsurrey says:

Sorry, I don’t agree with you on this.

The scribes witnessed without being present on the scene of crucifixion; they did things not with the permission of their master Jesus; so it is weird to say they were couragious.

They never carried out the work of Jesus; they fullfilled cunning Paul’s or their own agenda, which was different from Jesus in teachings as well as in Acts. Jesus was at that time in India; and was unaware of their wrong doings at Rome.

I respect you opinion and faith.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Mulsim