Posts Tagged ‘clergy’

Buddha’s teachings were truthful but the Buddhists/Buddhism could not preserve them

June 22, 2013

I wrote following posts on <http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/> under the topic <Buddha believed in the Creator God>; the posts are given below for the viewers of this blog.

To see the context of a post, please, click the post #; that will take you to the full single view of the post in the forum, and then click the thread topic on the right upper corner, that will take you to the discussion that ensued in the forum.

Paarsurrey wrote:

#20  The Creator God is the only ONE reality in existence and attributes; all others have been bestowed existence and life by Him. He only is Immortal; all except Him will die; He makes them die and nobody else could escape death.

#22 I am a Muslim by religion; but I have no claim of any piety or scholarship as I am just an ordinary man in the street. I am on the right/middle path yet finding the path ahead which is endless till I reach the destination of ONE-the INFINITE by His grace and kindness.

Thanks

#23 I think Buddha does not bind one to the Buddhist scriptures in Kalama Sutta.

Does he?

#29 Yes, I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.

Thanks for your good wishes.

Regards

#30  I never said that.

Buddha’s teachings were truthful but the Buddhists/Buddhism could not preserve them.

#31 I am just doing that, please.

#32  Buddha did not come after Muhammad so taking it in literal terms the question is not valid.

In spiritual terms; yes he could be termed as a spiritual father of Muhammad like Abraham and Adam were.

It is better to state that all the founders of revealed religions were from one source; hence they were truthful persons, perfect human beings, unique as they had conversed with ONE- the Creator God and became an image of uniqueness in their own merits.

They could also be called brothers in faith, joining and shaking hands with one another smilingly and happily saving the humanity and serving it selflessly.

#34 Monks are also human beings; they could make mistakes and they do make mistakes of omission and commission. They cannot be allowed to have any hegemony on Buddha or his teachings.
They should be respected, like any other human beings, but not followed blindly whatever the write or interpret; only Buddha is to be followed while treading on the right/middle path.

Buddha and Jesus spoke against the clergy/priesthood very strongly.

I think you know what Jesus spoke in the temple

#36 Sure.

Then we follow our conscience, reason and brilliant arguments; we don’t have to look to the monks.

#38 I think I did not claim that I have patent on Buddha. Did I?

#43 I don’t necessarily need to quote any Sutta for following reasons:

1. Suttas were not written by Buddha. So why insist on quoting them?

2. They are said to consist on 40/43 volumes; not possible to go through them all for an ordinary man.

3. Buddha himself spoke that scriptures and the monks should not be relied upon with blind faith; I quote from Kalama Sutta in this connection:

“Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing,
nor upon tradition,
nor upon rumor,
nor upon what is in a scripture,
nor upon surmise,
nor upon an axiom,
nor upon specious reasoning,
nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over,
nor upon another’s seeming ability,
nor upon the consideration, “The monk is our teacher.””

4. I understand that some scholars say that little or nothing goes back to the Buddha. Some have has little confidence that much, if any, of surviving Buddhist scripture is actually the word of the historical Buddha.

5. I don’t say they are false and should be rejected; they might contain diluted teachings of Buddha; and affected by the influence of Nāstika schools of philosophies during the times between Buddha and when the scriptures were compiled/written down.

A parallel in this regard could be had from what happened to the teachings of Jesus after when he migrated from Judea after the event of crucifixion in which he survived and came to India.

Galileo’s persecution by the clergy is deplorable

April 1, 2013

Herein below please view peaceful comments between a friend at the wordpress and me. I publish it as a new post for benefit of others.

Nick T Says:

April 1, 2013 at 10:37 am

http://endoskeptic.com/2013/03/30/astrology-militants-attack-my-blog/

Many thanks for the reblog, very much appreciated and great to know people are enjoying the read. Although, unfortunately, there are many examples throughout history where religious beliefs have directly opposed scientific endeavour; the case of Galileo and the Pope, for example.

But this post wasn’t written to evoke that discussion, but instead ensure that the facts of science are presented in the face of the supernatural belief that the celestial bodies can affect our behaviour; which they can’t!

Thanks again; looking forward to reading some of your writing in the future!

paarsurrey Says:

April 1, 2013 at 12:28 pm

https://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/2013/03/30/3349/

I thank you very much for visiting my blog; also for your comments.

I am of the view that there is no contradiction in Nature- Work of God- that corrects science; and a revealed Religion-Word of God- that depends on the Revelation from the one true creator God.
Coming to your other points:

1. Galileo’s persecution by the Pope was unjust. The pope or his associate clergy do not represent the truthful religion. Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Socrates and Muhammad did not oppose any scientific endeavour or persecute any scientist. The above persons were the direct recipients of Revelation.

The acts of the clergy are wrongs done by man against man and it is sinful and deplorable. It is just like the secular rulers who do wrongs sometimes or often.

2. If a human word spoken can effect changes in the world; then I think Word of God could do much.
If for example, words spoken by the Head of State of America can make changes in the world; Word of the creator God could do much more.

Friendly discussion is always welcome.

Thanks again and regards

March 26, 2013

Paarsurrey says:

The Church has not dealt with the families fairly in he past; hence the secular governments have taken over this function of reconciliation or otherwise of the families .

The clergy had been carried away with their incorrect creeds and doing injustice with the families.The clergy/church/priests don’t represent the one true creator God; no injustice should be made in the name of church or religion.

Justice is one of the prime attributes of God.

This is my opinion; others could believe differently with rational reasons and arguments.

Buddha and or Jesus did not establish a separate class for the clergy

May 7, 2012

An atheist observes:
It’s a constant throughout Buddhist scripture that there are separate rules for monks and for laypeople.

Paarsurrey comments:

There is no separate classification like that in the truthful religion. Neither Buddha nor Jesus founded any such class. It is the clergy who later established it on their own without any express authority from them.

I read root books of the revealed religions with great interest; on the basis of reasonable principles mentioned in Quran we can further sort out essence of right from the wrong easily.

I am sceptic of the Skepticals so my approach is open and positive for truth; Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Socrates, Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah of our era are all real persons and they did exist.

The source of Buddha, Moses, Krishna,Zoroaster, Socrates, Jesus, Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah of our era is the same ONE-Creator God; hence Jesus , Muhammad and Buddha had a good connection with one another.

An atheist questions

May 2, 2012

An atheist questions:

Paarsurrey! Would you personally execute an atheist if ordered by your clergy or government? The atheist has done nothing other than not believe. Yes or no?

Paarsurrey answers:

I can’t even think of killing a person just for not believing. The Creator God has bestowed life to a person; if at all he wants that a person should be killed, He Himself will kill such a person or give him death.

Quran does not give any authority to clergy or to any government to kill a person just for not believing.

An emphatic “NO“, as you asked to give an answer, in yes, or no.

All human beings of whatever religion or irreligion, atheists or theists have a right to co-exist in this world with respect and in peace.

 

 

 

What does Quran say about the Bible?

May 13, 2009

~Quran respects all the Revealed Books of all the Religions; e.g., Torah of Moses or Gita of Krishna, or revelations made to Buddha, or Zoroaster; or for that matter any book revealed on the Messenger Prophets, all over the world. Bible/Torah is one of such Revealed Book.

Wdednh says:

Thank you for your interesting reply. You’ve asked very interesting questions. But b4 I answer your questions would you please answer my questions?

You in your writings keep talking about Jesus of the Bible, and you talk about Cunning Paul and sinful scribes of the Bible, you talk about Love you have for Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran. Now would you please tell me?

(1)What does Quran say about the Bible?
(2) What does Quran say about Mary?
(3) Does Quran mention virgin birth of JESUS CHRIST?
(4)And if Quran mentions the virgin birth, what does it say the virgin was conceived by?
(5) Also what is your thought on Israel as a country and as a Nation?

So please tell me what QURAN says and if you are a true follower of it?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend wdednh

English is not my mother language; so, I am not familiar with the American or English proverbs and phrases. I had to google to find out the meaning and history of the proverb “The proof is in the pudding”. Thanks for introducing one to me.

Question:

What does Quran say about the Bible?

Answer:

Quran respects all the Revealed Books of all the Religions; e.g., Torah of Moses or Gita of Krishna, or revelations made to Buddha, or Zoroaster; or for that matter any book revealed on the Messenger Prophets, all over the world. Bible/Torah is one of such Revealed Book. An Ahmadi peaceful Muslim has to believe that the persons on whom these books were revealed were truthful persons. Bible/Torah is said to be revealed on Moses; though I personally think that Genesis was not revealed on Moses.

Since God Allah YHWH sent the Messengers with Divine Guidance, so Quran on broader basis confirms the original revelations to be true; and a Muslim cannot be a Muslim if he denies this basis. Not withstanding the above Quran makes a distinction between the Word of Revelation in origin, and the present form it is found now; some part conforming with the origin and some getting diluted by hands of its followers.

No Muslim believes that the present Torah or the present Gospels entirely retain the form of the origin; these are mixed up now.

The Messengers Prophets on whom these books were revealed were the truthful Messengers Prophets of God Allah YHWH; the revelations were also truthful in the origin, but unfortunately, the followers of these books made them tainted. This could be observed, easily by reading those books.

The books are hardly found protected and secured with a fool proof system; having not the same text, word for word and letter for letter; in the original language of the Messengers on whom these are said to have been revealed.

We find guidance originally revealed diluted to a great extent and also a lot of wisdom missing which must have been in them, if they are truthful now. It is for this that we don’t find both claims and reason intact in them.

It is for this that we see the followers of these books spoon feeding the claims and reason into them so frequently; that forms a proof of an attempt to tamper with the text or adding meanings which are not there in the original texts and versions. The books itseld are deaf and dumb; while the followers boast about the wisdom.

I think I shall have to add a recent example to illustrate the point.

Pope Benedict’s Latest Take on Islam
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1897119,00.html

“Faith is in fact necessary in a world in which reason alone can become a form of extremism.” “When human reason humbly allows itself to be purified by faith… it is strengthened to resist presumption and reach beyond its own limitations.” I think with this he was perhaps hinting toward the Atheists and the Agnostics who are also called sometimes as Secularists or Humanists.
He further added: “Christians describe God, among other ways, as creative Reason, which orders and guides the world,” the Pope said. “Muslims worship God, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, who has spoken to humanity.” The Pope seems to still believe that this distinction — between Christian faith that is “purified” by human reason, and Muslim faith that is simply received from God.

The Highest Catholic Clergy is a dignitary; and our faith (Islam) enjoins us to respect dignitaries of all faiths/religions. As an individual he is entitled to free thinking and opinion; and I respect his faith.

So the Catholic faith as incorporated in the Catholic Bible is purified by reason, as he claims.

Now whose reason purifies the original text? It is anybody’s guess. If, I have understood it correctly, the Pope gets a license to add reasons or meaning to the revelation under the pretext of purifying the scriptures made by God Allah YHWH on Jesus. This they have been doing since the times of Paul; adding claims and reasons under the name of purification.

Yet, the Gospels completely lack of any reasons, at least I could not find any reasonable, rational, and logical reasons for any theological assertions/expressions made or claimed in it. Kindly correct me if I have misunderstood anything the Clergy said.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran not the mythical ones presented by sinful Paul and the sinful scribes.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Trinity – a very loose hat on Jesus’ head

June 16, 2008

This is not a debate; it is a peaceful discussion between friends to understand one another’s view point. Others, are welcome to participate in it, to increase our understanding. Differing views will also be appreciated.

 

 

June 14, 2008 at 9:27 pm

paarsurrey

 

Hi Lee!

‘Clearly the whole world will see His coming”.
This is not physically possible. The Earth is round and if Jesus descends, as you say, in the West then people in the East cannot see his descent to happen. The sentence means , in my opinion, that everybody will undestand his coming. So the matter is metaphorical not a physical phenomenon.

 

Do you have a real photograph of Jesus? I don’t think you have one for sure with his real features. So, how would you recognize him ?

Jesus has to be recognized with reasonable arguments.

 

Thanks

 

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

 

June 14, 2008 at 9:52 pm

Lee

 

Those are the Words of Jesus Christ, Savior of the world to those who truly believe in Him and His Word. As the Son of God and part of the Trinity including God the Father, Jesus Christ His only begotten Son and the Holy Spirit, He cannot lie.

19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
[Numbers 23:19 NIV]

26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” [Matthew 19:26 NIV]

I understand it is hard to believe these words literally; but, it’s no problem for me as I have faith in my God. He has proven not to be wrong yet!

I believe the Holy Bible is the infallible Word of Jehovah God. Do you believe in the Bible or the Qu’ran?

 

________________________________________________________

June 15, 2008 at 4:08 am

paarsurrey

 

Hi

I believe in Quran and what Quran has confirmed from the NTBible.

Since Jesus left no written Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on him, or authenticated by him when he last departed from Galilee and went into exile towards India; hence my CatholicsProtestants friends believe many creeds created by the Catholic Clergy not originated by Jesus himself in person.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

______________________________________________________________

 

June 15, 2008 at 5:56 am

Lee

 

paarsurrey,

We do not have a common point of reference as I believe the Bible to be the infallible Word of Jehovah God. I do not believe the Qu’ran. The Bible and Qu’ran are opposed to one another as the Qu’ran denies the Trinity – one of the major tenets of the Christian faith — and refers to Jesus as merely a prophet.

Jesus IS God as part of the Trinity. Muhammad is not in the Bible. Allah is not in the Bible. The True Word of Jehovah God/YHWH is the Holy Bible; so, I do not believe in Allah or Muhammad. I’m sorry; but, until you can see that Jesus is the Messiah, the Savior of the world, the Real Truth. We cannot have a fruitful dialogue.

Jesus IS the Word of God made flesh (John 1:1-1

I pray your eyes will be opened to the Truth.

In Jesus Christ and Him only,
Lee

June 15, 2008 at 8:11 am

Kim

 

I agree with Lee. Also the Qu’ran states that those who believe that Jesus is part of the trinity are blasphemers.

In the NT the disciples were eyewitnesses to the fact that Jesus ascended into the heavens. So the contention that Jesus went to India is false. There is much documentation to the accuracy of the Bible, in fact it is the best documented manuscript of all time. In fact there is so much evidence available, that if one discards the Bible then one must discard all the literature of antiquity. Then on top of that is the archaeological evidence.

http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/home.html

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

June 15, 2008 at 8:05 pm

paarsurrey

 

Lee said:
Jesus IS God as part of the Trinity
_______________________________________________

Hi

I respect your faith.

I know that the CatholicsProtestants believe in Trinity; but that concept was imported from the pagans at Rome by Paul, and Jesus never mentioned it in so many words. Who could stop Jesus from mentioning it clearly? Nobody could stop him obviously. It is Paul who tried to put this too loose a hat on the head of Jesus, to obscure Jesus personality and his teachings in the absence of Jesus.

Perhaps Paul knew that Jesus was in exile towards India and due to poor communications Jesus won’t be able to refute Paul’s views with a tinge of hidden animosity towards Jesus.

Jesus had not died on the Cross, and hence all the philosophical theology of Paul based on Jesus’ cursed killing on Cross gets exposed and his continuous animosity towards Jesus becomes manifest.

I love Jesus and Mary.

Kindly think deeply dispense with Paul and to know the truthful teachings of Jesus. Jesus never proclaimed a god-head for himself. It just does not suit on him well.

This is not to confuse anybody; it is to make one’s faith stronger.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

A peaceful man that Muhammad was

May 29, 2008

Hi

 

The West, as I understand, due to certain misinformation, mostly because of the mislead Mullah/clergy that serves the purpose of rulers, have been given to understand that Islam is a religion of violence, converting others by sword and punishing those who leave Islam by killing them.
This suited the rulers as also the clergy for keeping the public subjugated. But this has been the religion of the establishment that may be called as MullahIslam or MullahShariah; this has nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad.
Under this thread I intend to uncover the yet hidden face of true Islam as I understand from Quran and the life of Muhammad, both are open books, no mystery. The true face of peaceful and human loving Muhammad and his religion Islam which is truly speaking moral and peaceful, is very close to the present day concepts as would be seen here.
The first forty years i.e. before Muhammad was appointed ProphetMessenger by GodAllahYHWH has been offered as a reasonable argument/challenge in Quran before Infidels-of-Mecca, and they could not deny its truthfulness.

Muhammad had a marvelous record of a peace loving person for 40+13+2=55 years, he joined in welfare activities if there was any in Mecca, he helped the needy and in distress, he stood for the human cause, he never harmed any person. His record in these 55 years is clean by any standards.

 

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim


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