Posts Tagged ‘Bab’

Bahaullah: Gawhar Khanum

May 3, 2019

Religious Forums

#17 paarsurrey

“In summary, the Bāb allows bigamy but only if the original spouse is infertile.”

It becomes clear, as I understand, that Bab allowed only two wives for his followers and Bahaullah defied it two times.


#26 paarsurrey

“Perchance that this child is a leaf from the leaves of Paradise, should he give his faith to He Whom God shall make manifest; otherwise, he will turn into the leaves of the Fire.” Unquote from Bab.

@Komori! what is one’s understanding of “He Whom God shall make manifest” as told by Bab, please.


#27 paarsurrey

A good summation, indeed!

Bahaullah: Gawhar Khanum

May 2, 2019

Religious Forums

#1 paarsurrey

Bahaullah got married with his third wife, Gawhar Khanum:

  1. who did solemnize this marriage?
  2. and on what tradition?
  3. It sure happened in the post Iqan period.

It is important to ascertain the religion Bahaullah himself followed till then.

Thread open to everybody believing in a religion or no-religion.



#9 paarsurrey

Please provide a reference from Bab instructing his followers to have two wives only.
Thanks for the input.


#16  paarsurrey

“you’ve (the Bahaullah’s followers friends here) only studied what your Bahāʾī leaders have allowed to be translated and distributed to the masses. Are you not fluent in Arabic or Persian?”

While I study Iqan:

  1. the way Shoghi Effendi has indulged with translation of some Quranic verses,
  2. and he has given hardly any viable references of many Hadith/tradition mentioned by Bahaullah
  3. and some friends have given passages from Gleanings, without Shoghi Effendi giving reference of the original books in Farsi and or Arabic, and when asked about them he stated inability to provide them with the pretext that he had forgotten/does not remember from which original book he had translated them .

I also reached the conclusion/apprehension that Shoghi Effendi developed the agenda only to give access to the English speaking followers that suited to his own vested whims.
So the English speaking converts only have half truths.
No surprise if a follower is not aware of the teaching of Bab, whom Bahaullah followed, during his 50 years as a convert!
Right, please?


Bāb was a Twelver Shī’ah through and through

April 30, 2019

Religious Forums

#114 paarsurrey

Then what was John the Baptist doing with Jesus in the water. Wasn’t John a Jew, please?

John the Baptizer preaches by the River Jordan

John was a direct male descendant of Aaron, brother of Moses. He was a Kohen (or Cohen) the distinct priestly line of Kohenim that were only permitted to minister in the Old Testament Temple.
Why did John the Baptist baptize with water?


#117 paarsurrey

Very interesting, please.


#118 paarsurrey

Muhammad was never a Christian or a Jew.

#119 paarsurrey

Was Bahaullah a “Bahai”, please?

When did Bahaullah cease to pray Salat like he used to do as Shia-Twelver-Muslims do ?

This could decide the issue.

Another will be when Bahaullah got married with his third wife, Gawhar Khanum, who did solemnize this marriage and on what tradition? It sure happened in the post Iqan period. Right, please?


When Bahaullah went out of Islam. Did he?

April 26, 2019

Religious Forums

#41 paarsurrey

When and where Baha’ullah took Bahaullah’s Covenant?

When they assembled in the Garden and Bahaullah addressed his people, did they make a list of the members who signed the Covenant at that time, or they did not. Any details towards that, please.


“Thus the Bab’s revelation was to prepare and point us towards the ‘Glory of God’, who is Baha’u’llah.”Unquote

#42 paarsurrey

It may be a wishful thinking of the Bahaism people.
When Bahaullah went out of Islam, all these things become meaningless.

But the Bahaullah’s followers should stick to their faith, as they are used to, after-all I don’t consider them a bad people.



“Bāb was a Twelver Shī’ah through and through”

April 25, 2019

Religious Forums

“The Bāb was a Twelver Shī’ah through and through, and he and his followers did not see themselves as in opposition to Islam; they saw themselves as the true Muslims.” Unquote

#67 paarsurrey

Yes, I agree with one here, please.



“till much later, even after the Iqan period according”Unquote


Last edited: Yesterday at 1:33 PM

When did it happen exactly. Please let us know. Right, please?

We Muslims rarely attribute ourselves as “Muhammadanism”, and why should we do it when we were named as “Muslim” and our religion as “Islam” by G-d himself?:

AYAH al-Imran 3:19
Arabic[​IMG] إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ [​IMG]
Transliteration[​IMG] Inna alddeena AAinda Allahi al-islamu wama ikhtalafa allatheena ootoo alkitaba illa min baAAdi ma jaahumu alAAilmu baghyan baynahum waman yakfur bi-ayati Allahi fa-inna Allaha sareeAAu alhisabi
(Word by Word) Indeed, the religion near Allah (is) submission/Islam. And not differed those who were given the Book except from after [what] came to them [the] knowledge out of envy among them. And whoever disbelieves in (the) Verses (of) Allah, then indeed, Allah (is) swift (in taking) account.
Sher Ali[​IMG] Surely the true religion with ALLAH is Islam. And those who were given the Book did not disagree but, after knowledge had come to them, out of mutual envy. And whoso denies the Signs of ALLAH, then surely ALLAH is quick at reckoning.
al-Imran 3:19
AYAH al-Hajj 22:78
Arabic[​IMG] وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَٰذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلَاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَىٰ وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ [​IMG]
Transliteration[​IMG] Wajahidoo fee Allahi haqqa jihadihi huwa ijtabakum wama jaAAala AAalaykum fee alddeeni min harajin millata abeekum ibraheema huwa sammakumu almuslimeena min qablu wafee hathaliyakoona alrrasoolu shaheedan AAalaykum watakoonoo shuhadaa AAalaalnnasi faaqeemoo alssalata waatoo alzzakata waiAAtasimoo biAllahi huwa mawlakum faniAAma almawla waniAAma alnnaseeru
(Word by Word) And strive for Allah (with the) striving due (to) H He (has) chosen you and not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. (The) religion (of) your father Ibrahim. He named you those-who-submit/Muslims before and in this, that may be the Messenger a witness over you and you may be witnesses on the mankind. So establish the prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah. He (is) your Protector – so an Excellent [the] Protector and an Excellent [the] Helper.
Sher Ali[​IMG] And strive in the cause of ALLAH as it behoves you to strive for it. HE has chosen you and has laid no hardship upon you in the matter of religion; so follow the faith of your father Abraham; HE has named you Muslims both before and in this Book, so that the Messenger may be a witness over you, and you may be witnesses over mankind. Therefore observe Prayer and pay the Zakaat, and hold fast to ALLAH. HE is your Protector and an Excellent Protector and an Excellent Helper !
al-Hajj 22:78

Right, please?

Bahaullah was unfortunate to leave Quran/Islam/Muhammad if he left Islam even after the end of his Post-Iqan period. It is height of fallibility on the part of Bahaullah, greatest of his mistakes, rather sinful, if he would have realized from Quran but Bahaullah’s understanding of Quran was somewhat if not more or most, shallow. After-all he was a human being, I understand, and to err is human. Human being are to be loved and not hated, of course.


Thanks for rating my above post as [​IMG] Friendly our friend @Tonxxxxxxxx.

Did Bahaullah renounce Islam and convert to no-religion?

April 24, 2019

Blog Post # 2224

Religious Forums

#45  paarsurrey

Last edited: Yesterday at 1:57 PM

I understand that Bab was Shayki /Esoteric/Mysticism Twelver Shia Muslim and Bahaullah became his follower.
In that case the question remains to be answered, when did Bahaullah renounce Muslim and convert to no-religion, please?


#50 paarsurrey

Bab did not renounce Islam, there  is a friend in the Forum who is a Babi, but he is a strong Muslim. I understand Bab used to pray/formal-Salat as other Shia-Muslim use to do, Bab did not renounce Islam, believed both parts of the Kalima (1.Oneness of God and 2.prophet-hood of Muhammad ).
It means that Bahaullah remained a no-religion man

  1. between the period , he left religion-Islam in the pre-Iqan period and the Iqan-period.
  2. Till his followers announced Bahaullah to be follower of Bahaism in the post-Iqan period, please.


#57 paarsurrey

It is important to know:

  1. When one joins Islam one openly with his words recites Kalima (1. Acknowledges Oneness of God and 2.prophet-hood of Muhammad) and starts offering prayers etc. and doing the religious actions like Salat as told in Quran and done by Muhammad.
  2. In other words when did Bab and or Bahuallah cease to pray Salat like they used to do as Shia-Twelver-Muslims do or the Sunni-Muslims do.

It is the same question in other words, please.



Holy War -the peaceful version- with reasons, arguments and peaceful dialogue

The News:

One will, perhaps, love to read the following:

“Holy War”: Is it Armageddon? with its ” Peaceful Version”! 1

“Holy War”: Is it Armegiddon / Armageddon? – with its “Peaceful Version”! 1 | paarsurrey (

One will be taken aback to note that Armegiddon/Armageddon is nothing like as one would have imagined or known so far. It is not to be fought with any physical and destructive weaponry and or the lethal arsenal of the day. It is peaceful and in fact, I understand, it has already started and it is sown like a seed!

It was a debate between the Pauline-Christianity (represented by Mr. Abdullah Atham) and the Second Coming 1835-1908 , that took place in Urdu language and was published then by the name “Jang-e-Muqaddas” in 1893 ( 22 May 1893 to 5 June 1893) in the then British India and has been recently translated and published in English by the name “The Holy War”:

The Holy War — A DEBATE BETWEEN ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY — Jang-e-Muqaddas (


From: a peaceful Ahmadiyya Muslim


These are the days of Armageddon – the final battle between good and evil –The peaceful Version! 3

Has Armageddon already started with the advent of Second Coming 1835-1908 ?– The peaceful Version! 2

Was Bahaullah a “Bahai”, please?

April 23, 2019

Blog post # 2221

Religious Forums

#39 paarsurrey

So, one means that during the pre-Iqan period Bahaullah was a Muslim. When did he convert to nothing (Atheism) from a Muslim, please?



#40 Paarsurrey

Last edited: Yesterday at 2:42 PM

So, one means that during the pre-Iqan period Bahaullah was a Muslim. When did he convert to nothing (Atheism) from a Muslim, please?
Because “Proclamation to the Kings, Rulers, Leaders of Religion and to the Peoples of the World” was written/un-revealed from G-d in the Post Iqan period in 1868.





Was Bahaullah a “Bahai”, please? (3)

April 22, 2019

Religious Forums

sxxxxxxxxx said: 

#6 paarsurrey

Last edited: Yesterday at 12:42 PM

What did Bahaullah say about himself, please, pertinently in Iqan?
It is a simple question, he must not have forgotten to mention it in Iqan, or his human limitations like forgetfulness restrained him; and he was not a God for sure.


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