Archive for the ‘sinful scribes’ Category

One should follow Muhammad as he is a truthful Messenger of God Allah YHWH

June 23, 2009

Maaark says:

Your understanding of Christianity seems very shallow like you have only read about it ‎from hostile people. You say many things about Christianity but not much about your ‎own faith. If you were to convince me that Christianity is wrong there is still no reason to ‎become Islam. Can you tell me why I would or should follow the prophet Muhammad?

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend maaark

I have read the Bible from cover to cover; and I think that should be sufficient for me. I ‎have never said that teachings of Jesus and acts of Jesus were wrong; I can never say that; ‎and that is what the Christianity should be. Christianity should consist of logically on ‎teachings of Jesus and what Jesus did. If the present Christianity with all its 32000+ ‎denominations is not what Jesus taught and did; sorry I would say then they are wrong. If ‎the Christians (belonging to all 32000+ denominations) opted instead to follow cunning ‎Paul, an enemy of Jesus, and the sinful scribes; you could very well understand that I ‎won’t believe them truthful.

I have no claim to be a scholar or an expert. I have no blindfaith; if my knowledge is ‎shallow, I would welcome anybody who makes it deeper with rational and logical ‎arguments.

I give reasons and arguments; if the same appeal you and convince you, there is nothing ‎wrong with it; if the same does not appeal you or convince you; you could give your own ‎arguments and reasons to convince me. I am an open mind; I won’t mind.

You may ask any question about my faith and I would try to help you understand it.

You should follow Muhammad as he was a truthful Messenger of God Allah YHWH.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

The deserting and sinful scribes of Bible fullfilled cunning Paul’s or their own agenda; which was different from Jesus’ in teachings as well as in Acts

June 9, 2009

Edbooked says:

Consider this…Dying with Jesus would have been easier than carrying on the work Jesus began while being pursued under threat of death throughout the lands. Why repeatedly risk death? Such acts require courage. Dying is easy. Doing one’s duty…completing one’s mission…in spite of the threat of enemy death…takes courage some suggest requires divine assistance.

Paarsurrey says:

Sorry, I don’t agree with you on this.

The scribes witnessed without being present on the scene of crucifixion; they did things not with the permission of their master Jesus; so it is weird to say they were couragious.

They never carried out the work of Jesus; they fullfilled cunning Paul’s or their own agenda, which was different from Jesus in teachings as well as in Acts. Jesus was at that time in India; and was unaware of their wrong doings at Rome.

I respect you opinion and faith.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Mulsim

Had the sinful scribes of Gospels believed Jesus as god? They would have remained with Jesus even if killed by the Jews; Jesus after resurrection could make them alive from the dead in a matter of maximum three days

June 8, 2009

Paarsurrey says:

I think you are wrong to judge me. I have read the Old Testament and the New Testament from cover to cover.

Jesus did never read the New Testament; he read the Old Testament and he never asked any body to read the faulty New Testament prepared/collected/authored by his clever enemy Paul and the sinful discples who deserted Jesus when he was put on the Cross, and needed their support most.

They were hardly faithful to Jesus or belived in Jesus. Later, they eulogized Jesus and made him god, and their own thoughts as inspired by the Holy Ghost just to camoflouge their inner motives.

Had they belived Jesus as god; they would have happily remained with Jesus; at the most what would have happened to them; they would have been killed by the Jews or the Romans; and Jesus after resurrection only after hardly three days or less than that as per Bible, would have made them alive also from the dead.

But they never trutsted him as they knew he was no god; and could not make them alive from the dead.

One could see the game of the cunning Paul and the sinful scribes; if one just ponders over their superfluous witnessing.

As you requested and I allowed you to pray for me; so I think it is not good for you now to become angry for nothing.

Dialogue is always good for everybody; and exchange of views useful for peace. Why you become disappointed; have faith in Jesus and Mary and remain steadfast like them; they never were gods, alright, but they were steadfast with their Lord- God Allah YHWH.

You are supposed to love me; one who loves makes the contacts strong; so remain in contact with me, and I will also remain in contact with you, stroger than before.

You are a good friend; maybe sometimes your heart and mind gets opened for me, and you realize that you have not studied the Bible intently; neither its text nor its true context.

So it is for mutual benefit to keep a closer contact between us. You lose nothing; yet you may gain something.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned truthfully and rationally in Quran.

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.


The above is in response to comments of Rev Jason Thurwanger, yourbrotherinchrist, by accessing here:

Anyone please quote from such Jews or Muslims who believe Jesus and Holy Spirit as god; I think not a single Jew or Muslim would be found

June 7, 2009

Edbooked says:

Who, other than Christianity, would describe the one God worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as three persons? Yet that is how the biblical writers perceived God to be revealed to humanity. They perceived the one
God; being revealed as creator Father, as obedient son even unto death and as consoling Holy Spirit and counselor.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend edbooked

The Jews and Muslims don’t believe Jesus as god or the Holy Spirit as god. Please quote from such Jews or Muslims who believe Jesus and Holy Spirit as god; I think not a single Jew or Muslim would be found believing such thing. Even Jesus did not believe like that.

This game started with Paul; when Jesus secretly moved away from Galilee to India, after have esacpaed a cursed deatho on Cross; Paul thought it an opportune time to bring superflous ideas to mar the simple teachings of Jesus who always followed in the line of Moses.

The deserting sinful scribes of gospels also followed Paul.

I am sorry to state; that the prsent Christians though call themselves after the Christ; yet they are followers of Paul, and not of Jesus.

What is your denomination/faith? This is only requested for clarity in perceiving you standpoint; no compulsion however. Please don’t mind.

I love Jesus and Mary as I love Moses and his mother.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Paul and Joseph Smith were not truthful Messengers Propohets of God Allah YHWH; they met the same fate; God so arranged that they were killed

June 4, 2009

Markparker1 says:

Christ stated to the Prophet Joseph Smith

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend markparker1

I want to make it very clear here that we Ahmadi Muslims don’t believe that Jesus said or could say anything to Joseph Smith. Jesus died a natural and peaceful death in India after when he migrated there when he was saved a cursed death on Cross.

Jesus did not have any authority to appoint anyone as his messenger for receiving Word of God on his behalf. God Allah YHWH Himself appoints His messengers Prophets. Joseph Smith as far as I know was never appointed a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH. Jesus had no authority in this connection.

We understand that perhaps Joseph Smith’s case is that of Paul; who self appointed himself as apostel or epistle or messenger in the absence of Jesus. Paul never claimed to be a Messenger Prophet of God Allah YHWH; he invented a new cunning terminology.

Since both Paul and Joseph Smith, in my opinion, did confuse the people and were self-appointed Messenger Prophets; they met the same destiny, put to death, as per Torah:

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

Sorry; we Muslims do not consider Paul and Joseph Smith truthful Messengers Propohets of God; they met the same fate; God so arranged.

I however respect your faith; you have the right to believe anything you are convinced with to be truthful.
Please take it as a statement of my faith; these are not meant as hate words.

I have not doubt in this connection.

I love Jesus and Mary as beautifully described in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

No fake witnessing of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul was needed by Jesus

June 3, 2009

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friends

I quote from John 8:19.

John 8:
16 And if I do judge, my judgment is true: because I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 And in your law it is written, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that give testimony of myself: and the Father that sent me giveth testimony of me. 19 They said therefore to him: Where is thy Father? Jesus answered: Neither me do you know, nor my Father: if you did know me, perhaps you would know my Father also.

The sinful scribes or the Church as depicted by Bible; did follow the Jews, instead of following Jesus. Jesus maintained that he needed no witnessing for his truthfulness.

God Allah YHWH was sufficient for his witnessing that Jesus was a Messenger of God; sent by God Allah YHWH with a message.

Moses did not need a witnessing of men; Noah did not need a witnessing of men; Jonah did not need a witnessing of men. All these persons Moses, Noah, Jonah and Jesus were to judge the people; they were not to be judged by them.

When people denied them, the Messengers; they were punished by God Allah YHWH; one should read what happened to the people to whom Noah was sent; when they denied the Message of Noah, they all got drowned.

So, only witnessing of Allah and his Messenger is sufficient; no fake witnessing of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John was needed by Jesus.

Peace; I respect your faith; you are free to believe whatever you are convinced with.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Jesus explained the sense when he used to say Jews as Son of Devil, as they were evil persons; and called himseld Son of God, a righteous person Messenger of God

June 3, 2009

Pauline says:


My impression of Jewish beliefs is the same as Paar’s, that they – like Muslims – believe that God does not and would not have a son. Not in the sense that Christians believe that God has a Son, anyway.

I remember from Bible school that the word “son” in the Old Testament has a broader range of meanings than it does in English. For instance, it can mean “someone with the characteristics of,” as in “son of righteousness.” So “son of God” does not necessarily mean someone who is divine, but can refer to having other characteristics like God.

I don’t know how Jews interpret Psalm 2, but I’m pretty sure they don’t think God is talking to the kind of divine Son that Christians interpret it to mean.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend Pauline

I am with Pauline; the Catholics Protestants usually take meaning which are not there really in the text of the Torah, or in the context of the Torah. They take a superficial or imaginary meaning; which even Jesus never explicity talked about.

Now, this Son of God business; which the Catholics and Protestants have corrupted, could be restored from its antonym the Son of the Satan or Son of the Devil.

I quote here from John 8:44

John 8:
39 They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.
41 You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: 43 Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But if I say the truth, you believe me not.
46 Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me? 47 He that is of God, heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God. 48 The Jews therefore answered, and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

So Jesus spoke in symbolicism. He explained the sense when he used to say Jews as Son of Devil, as they were evil persons; and called himseld Son of God, a righteous person Messenger of God.

The Catholics Protestants take a corrupted, literal and physical meaning so Jesus is right; they should rectify their concepts and follow Jesus; instead of following the Cunning Paul or the sinful scribes.

I would like some Jew to express here if, they believe Jesus as God; if they don’t believe Jesus as God; then it is only a wishful thinking of the Catholics and Protestants that their and Jews God is the same.

Nevertheless, I respect your faith; you could believe whatever you are convinced with; peace.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Neither the text of the Quran nor the short context of Quran which usually consists of five preceding and five following verses; supports your standpoint

June 3, 2009

Markparker1– a Mormon Chrsitian says:

I notice Muslim people sometimes taking exception to Paul’s writings, however we regard them as scripture and him as an Apostle. Paul does not teach of a trinity, it isn’t taught in the Bible at all, that doctrine was added between Paul’s time and that of Muhammud. However Paul’s writings were in the Christian scripture when this was written weren’t they? ; Quran (29.46) And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except in the best way, unless it be with those of them who do wrong: but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you. Our God and your
God is One; and it is to Him we submit.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend markparker1

I think neither the text of Quran as quoted above by you nor the short context of Quran which usually consists of five preceding and five following verses or the longer context which consists of the whole chapter in which a verse has been mentioned or the entire Quran; it does not support your viewpoint that Quran sanctifies the New Testament.

I quote here ten verses from the Quran; kindly establish your viewpoint from Quran:

[29:42] مَثَلُ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُواْ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ أَوۡلِيَآءَ كَمَثَلِ ٱلۡعَنڪَبُوتِ ٱتَّخَذَتۡ بَيۡتً۬ا‌ۖ وَإِنَّ أَوۡهَنَ ٱلۡبُيُوتِ لَبَيۡتُ ٱلۡعَنڪَبُوتِ‌ۖ لَوۡ ڪَانُواْ يَعۡلَمُونَ
[29:42] The case of those who take helpers beside Allah is like unto the case of the spider, who makes for herself a house; and surely the frailest of all houses is the house of the spider, if they but knew!
[29:43] إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَعۡلَمُ مَا يَدۡعُونَ مِن دُونِهِۦ مِن شَىۡءٍ۬‌ۚ وَهُوَ ٱلۡعَزِيزُ ٱلۡحَڪِيمُ
[29:43] Verily, Allah knows whatever they call upon beside Him; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
[29:44] وَتِلۡكَ ٱلۡأَمۡثَـٰلُ نَضۡرِبُهَا لِلنَّاسِ‌ۖ وَمَا يَعۡقِلُهَآ إِلَّا ٱلۡعَـٰلِمُونَ
[29:44] And these are similitudes which We set forth for mankind, but only those understand them who have knowledge.
[29:45] خَلَقَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٲتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضَ بِٱلۡحَقِّ‌ۚ إِنَّ فِى ذَٲلِكَ لَأَيَةً۬ لِّلۡمُؤۡمِنِينَ
[29:45] Allah created the heavens and the earth in accordance with the requirements of wisdom. In that surely is a Sign for the believers.
[29:46] ٱتۡلُ مَآ أُوحِىَ إِلَيۡكَ مِنَ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَأَقِمِ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ‌ۖ إِنَّ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ تَنۡهَىٰ عَنِ ٱلۡفَحۡشَآءِ وَٱلۡمُنكَرِ‌ۗ وَلَذِكۡرُ ٱللَّهِ أَڪۡبَرُ‌ۗ وَٱللَّهُ يَعۡلَمُ مَا تَصۡنَعُونَ
[29:46] Recite that which has been revealed to thee of the Book, and observe Prayer. Surely, Prayer restrains one from indecency and manifest evil, and remembrance of Allah indeed is the greatest virtue. And Allah knows what you do.
[29:47] ۞ وَلَا تُجَـٰدِلُوٓاْ أَهۡلَ ٱلۡڪِتَـٰبِ إِلَّا بِٱلَّتِى هِىَ أَحۡسَنُ إِلَّا ٱلَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنۡهُمۡ‌ۖ وَقُولُوٓاْ ءَامَنَّا بِٱلَّذِىٓ أُنزِلَ إِلَيۡنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيۡڪُمۡ وَإِلَـٰهُنَا وَإِلَـٰهُكُمۡ وَٲحِدٌ۬ وَنَحۡنُ لَهُ ۥ مُسۡلِمُونَ
[29:47] And argue not with the People of the Book except with what is best; but argue not at all with such of them as are unjust. And say, ‘We believe in that which has been revealed to us and that which has been revealed to you; and our God and your God is one; and to Him we submit.’

[29:48] وَكَذَٲلِكَ أَنزَلۡنَآ إِلَيۡكَ ٱلۡڪِتَـٰبَ‌ۚ فَٱلَّذِينَ ءَاتَيۡنَـٰهُمُ ٱلۡڪِتَـٰبَ يُؤۡمِنُونَ بِهِۦ‌ۖ وَمِنۡ هَـٰٓؤُلَآءِ مَن يُؤۡمِنُ بِهِۦ‌ۚ وَمَا يَجۡحَدُ بِـَٔايَـٰتِنَآ إِلَّا ٱلۡڪَـٰفِرُونَ
[29:48] And in like manner have We sent down the Book to thee, so those to whom We have given true knowledge of the Book believe in it (the Qur’an); and of these Meccans also there are some who believe in it. And none but the ungrateful deny Our Signs.
[29:49] وَمَا كُنتَ تَتۡلُواْ مِن قَبۡلِهِۦ مِن كِتَـٰبٍ۬ وَلَا تَخُطُّهُ ۥ بِيَمِينِكَ‌ۖ إِذً۬ا لَّٱرۡتَابَ ٱلۡمُبۡطِلُونَ
[29:49] And thou didst not recite any Book before it, nor didst thou write one with thy right hand; in that case the liars would have doubted.
[29:50] بَلۡ هُوَ ءَايَـٰتُۢ بَيِّنَـٰتٌ۬ فِى صُدُورِ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ ٱلۡعِلۡمَ‌ۚ وَمَا يَجۡحَدُ بِـَٔايَـٰتِنَآ إِلَّا ٱلظَّـٰلِمُونَ
[29:50] Nay, it is a collection of clear Signs in the hearts of those who are given knowledge. And none but the wrongdoers deny Our Signs.

[29:51] وَقَالُواْ لَوۡلَآ أُنزِلَ عَلَيۡهِ ءَايَـٰتٌ۬ مِّن رَّبِّهِۦ‌ۖ قُلۡ إِنَّمَا ٱلۡأَيَـٰتُ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ وَإِنَّمَآ أَنَا۟ نَذِيرٌ۬ مُّبِينٌ
[29:51] And they say, ‘Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?’ Say, ‘The Signs are with Allah, and certainly I am a clear Warner.’

I love Jesus on whom God Allah YHWH did reveal His Word in which there was light; but Jesus did not write any book; which he read from. Quran respects Jesus and Mary not the cunning Paul or the sinful scribes and their wrong doings.

I respect your faith.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

When Jesus did not read from the Bible which the Catholics Protestants now read from; then what credence it does have? I think none

June 3, 2009

Mightbethewalrus says:

I think that some of the letters were left out because they were written too long after Jesus was on earth. The Catholic bible has a few more books. I think it would be interesting to read some of them.

paarsurrey says:

Hi friend mightbethewalrus

Welcome to this blog.

May God bless you!

My question is; when Jesus did not read from the Bible which the Catholics Protestants now read from; what credence it does have? I think none.

It is not the question of some letters which were left out; it is of the entire New Testament.

Why did the sinful scribes did not write their gospels before the incident of the Cross; so that Jesus could have read it approved it?

I respect your faith; please don’t mind.

I love Jesus and Mary as described in Quran.


I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

If Jesus had to appear to anyone in a dream or a vision, a prophecy of this kind would be ridiculous

May 30, 2009

Wdednh says:

Now, according to ALL holly writings from
ALL holly books; when MESSIAH comes, it’s the end and the new start for
the world. Now either I’m blind or truly isolated for i have not seen
a new world or even the end of the old one. Please explain and shine
your truth on my ignorance. Any way here it is the statement that
really got me confused.

Paarsurrey says:

Hi friend wdednh

You don’t have to get confused. The Bible scribes were sinful persons; which is evident from their deserting Jesus alone crying on the Cross. Their writings were not holy and cannot be holy. They often misunderstood the things, exaggerated and could not see the things in true and real perspective. Jesus second coming was totally misconceived by them.

I think you would like to know something from the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in this connection.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad says:

And among the testimonies of the gospel which have reached us is the verse of Matthew, namely: ‘Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.’17 Likewise, the verse in John: ‘Jesus saith unto him, if I will that he (i.e., the disciple, John) tarry (i.e., in Jerusalem) till I come.’18 This means: ‘If I will, John will not die till I come again’.

These verses show with great clarity that Jesus (peace be on him) had made a promise that some people would continue to live till his return; among these he had named John. So the fulfillment of this promise was inevitable. Accordingly, even Christians have admitted that in order that the prophecy may be taken to have been fulfilled, Jesus’ coming at a time when some of the people of that age were still alive was inevitable, so that the prophecy should have been fulfilled according to its promise.

This is the basis of the clergyman’s declaration that Jesus, in accordance with his promise, had come to Jerusalem at the time of its destruction and that John had seen him, as he was alive at that time.

But let it be noted that Christians do not say that Jesus really came down from heaven accompanied by appointed signs; they rather say that he appeared to John as in a vision, that he might fulfill his prophecy contained in verse 28 of chapter 16 of Matthew. But I say that coming of this kind does not fulfill the prophecy. That is a very weak interpretation which only avoids with difficulty the criticism leveled against this position.

This interpretation is patently untenable and wrong, so much so, that there is no need to refute it, for if Jesus had to appear to anyone in a dream or a vision, a prophecy of this kind would be ridiculous.19 In such manner Jesus had also appeared to Paul long before this.

It appears that the prophecy contained in verse 28 of chapter 16 of Matthew has caused a panic among the padres and they have not been able to give it a rational meaning in accordance with their own beliefs, for it was difficult for them to say that Jesus at the time of the sacking of Jerusalem had descended from heaven in glory, and that like the lightning that lights up all heaven and is seen by everybody, all had seen him; and also it was not easy for them to ignore the statement, namely: Some of those who were standing here will not taste death till they have seen the Son of man coming in his Kingdom.

Therefore, as a result of a labored interpretation they believed in the fulfillment of the prophecy in the shape of a vision. But this is not true; righteous servants of God always appear in visions to the elect and for a vision it is not even necessary that they should appear only in a dream; nay, they can be seen even in the waking state; I myself have experienced such phenomena.
I have seen Jesus (on whom be peace) many a time in Kashf (vision in the waking state), and I have met some of the prophets, while fully awake; I have also seen our Chief, Master and Leader, the Prophet Muhammad (may peace and the blessings of God be upon him) many a time in the waking state, and I have talked to him — in such a clear state of waking that sleep or drowsiness had nothing to do with it. I have also met some of the dead at their graves or other places, while awake; and have talked to them.

I very well know that such meeting with the dead in the waking state is possible; not only can we meet; we can also talk, and even have a handshake. Between this and the ordinary state of waking there is not difference in such an experience; one realizes that one is in this very world; one has the same ears, the same eyes, and the same tongue; but deeper reflection reveals a different universe. The world has no realization of this sort of experience, for the world lives a life of indifference. This experience is a gift from heaven; it is for those who are endowed with new senses.

This is a fact — actual and true. Therefore, when Jesus appeared to John after the destruction of Jerusalem, though he was seen by the latter in the waking state, and though there may have been some talk and a hand-shake, nevertheless, the incident has nothing to do with the prophecy. Such phenomena often happen in the world; and even now, if I devote some attention to it, I can, with the grace of God, in the waking state, see Jesus or some other holy prophet. Such a meeting does not fulfill the prophecy (contained in Matthew, chapter 16, verse 28).

So, the interpretation of the sinful scribes of Second Coming is wrong. The interpretation of Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is correct and has been fulfilled in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in the Quran.


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