Bible has its contradictions. If the twelve were chosen by Jesus; in fact I don’t differ with that; and they were well versed in his teachings and they were morally trained by Jesus par excellence; then Jesus should have appointed one of them as his successor after him in Judea. It is one reason among many that one doubts the vision that Paul described having seen of Jesus.
Paul’s vision is a made-up trick; one would come to the conclusion.
Present “Christianity” is founded by Paul; Paul’s absurdities have nothing to do with Jesus and Mary. “Christianity’ of Paul and the “Church” was invented at Rome only with the sole purpose of character assassination of Jesus in his absence; when he took refuge in India, with Mary his mother, from the atrocities of Jews.
If one explores on the internet one will find a score of research scholars agreeing on this point.
I just give three excerpts from one such site:
The Apostle Paul Founder of Christianity
1. Jesus was not the founder of Christianity as we know it today. Most of the New Testament doesn’t even concern the historical Jesus while the main influence is the Apostle Paul and a Greek convert named John.
2. Moreover, Saul was acting in concert with the high priest (Acts 9:2), who was a Sadducee opponent of the Pharisees. It seems likely that Saul was at this period an employee of the Roman-appointed high priest, playing a police role in suppressing movements regarded as a threat to the Roman occupation. Since Jesus had been crucified on a charge of sedition, his followers were under the same cloud.
3. The high priest then entrusted Saul with an important mission, which was to travel to Damascus to arrest prominent members of the Jerusalem Church.
http://www.justgivemethetruth.com/founder_of_christianity.htm
Of course one could differ with me; there is no compulsion.
Paarsurrey says:
It is a good post wherein purpose of life has been nicely explained and the hollowness of Atheism/naturalism has been exposed.
But for the sentence at the end “For me this is one of the reasons among many Christianity makes real sense”.
Jesus did not believe in the modern Christianity; it has nothing to do with Him.
Jesus did not believe in “Trinity”, or of his being “god” or “son of god”; or his death on the Cross; or his ascension to heaven bodily from Jerusalem after the event of Cross.
Unless the Christians follow the acts and beliefs of Jesus and Mary, they must doubt fulfilling the purpose of life; following Paul and scribes would lead them nowhere. One should not remain in illusions.
This morning I ran into a Starbucks and saw an old friend. We had few minutes so we began to talk about life and sort of catch up investigating each other. Within our conversation I clearly could see that he was surprised that the crazy guy he knew twenty years ago would become a Pastor. I could see the cold expression and confusion on his face as he wondered why I guy like me would educate himself in theology and waste good money on a certification on Apologetics. He thought such an education was a complete waste of time and money, but he wanted to be nice so he just questionably smiled as I answered his questions. I could visibly see his restraint as I knew he wanted to unload on me about being a Christian. However, he continued in the small talk, until an old member of my church…
View original post 1,513 more words
methodus wrote:
I could not tell where Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s commentary ended and where your opinions began. that said, it is clear that he either knows nothing about Christian eschatology or was intentionally lying to his audience.
paarsurrey Says:
Hi friend methodus
It is all from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908- the Promised Messiah- Imam Mahdi – The Second Coming of Jesus. In his first Coming Jesus never knew anything about Christian eschatology as the present “Christianity” was never founded by Jesus but by clever Paul and the Church. Jesus was a Jew and a follower of the teachings of Moses. It is therefore obvious that Jesus was neither aware of the eschatology of the so called “Christians” in his first coming; nor he needs it in the Second Coming. He is guided by the Word of Revelation from the Creator- God Allah YHWH and so he gives guidance to others very truthfully.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
wudjab Says:
April 7, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Sorry to break it to you bud, but.
First of all as an Ahmediya, you are not even considered a muslim. So saying you are a “Ahmadi peaceful Muslim” is a bit of an oxymoron. I guess you missed the part about big Mo being the last prophet.
Also since you are weak on Islamic theology, I’d suggest you quit trying to pass judgement on Christianity. It just makes you look stupider than you are.. or maybe you really are that stupid.
Finally there is no such thing as a ‘peaceful muslim’. Muslims are peaceful only until they are forced to be.
paarsurrey Says:
April 7, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Hi friend wudjab
Thanks for your “kind” words.
Was Jesus a “Christian”; I think he was a Jew. “Christianity” started with clever Paul, when he (Paul) saw no vision and made up the story that he had seen. Paul founded the Religion “Christianity” and named it cleverly after Jesus.
It is better for you to name yourself a “Paulist” rather than to say that you are Christian; though I don’t mind if you still say that you are a Christian. One expresses and declares one’s religion oneself; not others.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
Thanks again
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Hi friends
The above article mentions:
“Recently a study showed that many ministers don’t believe what they preach.They claim to know what they preach is wrong, but go on preaching it.”
One may think: Can a blind man show path to a blind man? If the pastors don’t know; how could they teach others to know?
It is so simple to understand.
God Almighty has indicated three types of knowledge:
1. Knowledge by certainty of reason,
2. Knowledge by certainty of sight,
3. Knowledge by certainty of experience.
This may be illustrated thus:
When a person perceives smoke from a distance his mind conceives that smoke and fire are inseparable, and therefore where there is smoke there must be fire also. This would be knowledge by the certainty of reason.
Then on a nearer approach he sees the flames of the fire and that is knowledge by the certainty of sight.
If one enters into the fire that would be knowledge by the certainty of experience.
Jesus had himself entered into the fire of knowledge of God that is he received Word of Revelation from the creator- God Allah YHWH Parmatma AhuraMazda.
Paul spoiled all the truthful teachings of Jesus based on Jesus’ experience mentioned above. Paul never spent any time learning from Jesus; so he had no knowledge of certainty. Paul was not even on the first stage of knowledge.
What Paul made up himself; it is enough that “Christians” have been following it blindly till now; but in the present era Paul and the Church have miserably failed.
The secular knowledge has uprooted the myth of Paul’s Theology invented by him at Rome. People don’t speak up and remain silent; but inwardly they have become Atheists and Agnostics.
Christian believers could only maintain their belief if they follow Jesus and Mary and don’t follow Paul and the mythical Church. Only Jesus and Mary could salvage their belief. The Atheists Agnostics are cognizant of the situation prevailing; and hence flexing their muscles to create wedge between the believers and Jesus- one of the perfect men that have been born on this planet Earth.
It is very appropriate time that the believers join in to reform Christianity and set it on to the path based on Teachings of Jesus and Mary and get rid of Paul and the Church to salvage Christians from the attack of Atheists Agnostics based only on doubt. They themselves name it “Skepticism” or path of doubt or devolution.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Paul spoiled Jesus’ true teachings to avenge his obvious enmity
hvtbintl69 Says:
I understand your beliefs but what are they based upon? The evidence? Of course Mary/Jesus they never celebrated Easter. Jesus was the originator.
There is no evidence that Jesus survived the cross nor is there any evidence that he died in Kashmir years later. Nothing in archaeology or scripture verifies it.
Jesus was dead on the cross, his friends put him into the tomb due to the oncoming Sabbath not any kind of conspiracy with the Romans. No removal occurred.
Thanks
paarsurrey Says:
Hi friend hvtbintl69
If Jesus would have been the originator of the Easter, the annual feast of the Christians; he must have celebrated it himself. In fact Jesus was not founder of the “Christianity”; it was Paul who founded “Christianity”:
1. Paul only used Christ’s name as a scapegoat
2. to spread his own (Paul’s) Theology invented at Rome
3. and also to take revenge from Jesus who had escaped death on Cross
4. by spoiling Jesus’ true teachings
5. and who (Jesus) had gone out of the reach of Paul who was a dead enemy of Jesus and his friends.
Jesus had nothing to do with Christianity of Paul and the Church.
I have given numerous proofs to that effect in my posts in my blog; you or other Christians of 32000+ denominations are welcome to refute them if you like, with your reasonable, rational and logical argument. I don’t think Christians could refute them. It is an inter-faith discussion blog; everybody is welcome to join the discussions opened by me in my posts. I respect all the 32000+ denominations of the Christians. Even JWs or Mormons who declare to be the only true Christians are welcome here. Everybody is invited to join the discussion.
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/eboo_patel/2010/02/religious_rights_for_christian.html
Hi friends
I agree with the following statement:
“Christianity was not at the founding, nor is it now a monolithic “ism” that justifies the domination and suppression of others–not even Wiccan/Pagans”
“Christianity” is a misnomer; it was not founded by Jesus who was Monotheist undoubtedly.”Christianity” was founded by Paul; and since then it did not remain Monotheist; it became a religion of Trinity.
Notwithstanding the above every religion has a right to present their case with reason, rationality and logical arguments to convince the human beings together by supporting with Revelation from the Creator- God Allah YHWH for fulfilling the Ethical, Moral and Spiritual needs of the man. Who wins I don’t mind. If the Atheists have anything useful in these faculties; they also have a right to serve humanity in these areas.
Christians are no exception.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Courtesy: richarddawkins discussion forum; I give hereunder a good post on the above topic.
http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=109343
Postby oombuddah » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:26 pm
Christians:
It makes sense because Jesus was only put on for a few hours! Even Josephus’ best mate survived the cross after days and days.
To worry your position even more, there is a scholarly work which shows that people would die between 3-7 days on hanging on the cross.
There is an evolution of the descriptions of torture, it looks like the latests gospels try to intensify the others.
Jesus was fed antiseptic.
Jesus was annointed with healing herbs.
No one knows the cause of his death – not even the doctors, but it is obvious that there is no cause of his death because if you look at it from a scientific viewpoint, it is in fact very unlikely that he did die in the first place.
Sure, they all agree he died but on what basis? They are looking at the evangelized accounts of his “scourging”.
Jesus was put into a roomy tomb where he can breathe.
Gosp. of John SPEAR THRUST – Raymond Brown said it was an insertion to prove docetists wrong. Biblical scholars agree that this spear thrust is extremely unlikely and UNHISTORICAL.
Jesus cried to be saved from death. God heard him.
They were professional executioners, but they aren’t always right – they are not scientists like today, try going to the point of drowning, you are unconscious for so long – it’s quite a similar phenomenon in a few ways. You are assumed dead.
Remember what happened to Paul? So many people thought he was dead, not just 2 or 3. But he got up and walked away.
It is so clear that if you analyse the science, Jesus did not die on the cross.
Pliny the Elder even had a big ass moan in his works saying that it is hard to determine when someone is actually dead or not!
Doctors who have said that Jesus died on the cross had took every single account in Mark, Matthew, Luke and John literally – Just remember that.
You would be assuming that Jesus had died on the cross. Its nothing more than an assumption. Christians know that.
They base their salvation on something which is assumed to be a miracle. They are doing half the miracle by assuming it’s a miracle.
We all know, there’s no point of me even reiterating this but hey, antiseptics have such an effect, that it can cause one to swoon.
As for guards at the tomb:
how do we know they were there? No one was there to witness the guards at the tomb – Dr. William Lane Craig and other top Christian scholars agree that the guards at the tomb are “Probably Not Historical” and could have come about from shouting matches in the form of oral traditions (to try and disprove the idea that Jesus got up and walked away with his normal body) which were then put in the gospels.
Raymond Brown, one of the top Christian scholar of our present time believes that Jesus appeared once to the disciples in which he said NOTHING. Then vanished.
There’s two ways of approaching this issue naturalistically:
1. Jesus appeared to the disciples in his human form, he disguised himself so he doesn’t get caught by the Jews, the disciples doubted it was Jesus whom they saw – the gospels attest to this idea (to back my point up).
2. Visions of Jesus – either naturalistic visions or visions granted by God – which is supported in Islamic tradition.
The thing about visionary appearances is that visions can be seen, felt and spoken too, even hugged. They can be viewed by masses of people. For example, Virgin Mary. Dr. Bart Ehrman argues in a recent debate that the resurrection appearances are visions.
Type this in on Youtube:
Virgin Mary appears to +500,000 people in Egypt!!
So appearances to the 11 really doesn’t mean anything much when Mary appears to 000’s
Did she really appear? I don’t think so, but they are adamant that she did.
Doesn’t the visionary body seem exactly the same as a resurrected body to you? I should think so.
I would also like to ask you, don’t you think Pilate would want to spare Jesus? Don’t you think the Roman centurions would seriously want to spare Jesus?
So here you are, the resurrection is disputed and surprisingly can be explained away very credibly, naturalistically.
You would need to prove that he died in the first place which is a total assumption.
How can the disciples tell a resurrected body and a visionary body which can be seen, touched, spoken to and hugged? They haven’t seen anything of a ‘resurrected nature’ before, so even if they did give firm testimony of the type of resurrection that some Christians try to prove (bodily), is this firm testimony really accurate? Of course not , only by assumption is it accurate. To assume a miracle is to assume salvation.
Look at the description of Jesus’ beating, and compare that to the other gospels (by the way, top christian and non christian scholars agree that Mark is a source of Matthew and Luke, and that Matthew and Luke evangelize and also just add extra info on Mark). The description of the beatings in Luke and Matthew are far greater than the descriptions of the beatings in Mark.
Jesus’ legs were not broken – a method done to ensure a quick death AND to ensure that if people are put into a tomb, they don’t ESCAPE!
Pilate was ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED and DOUBTED when he heard Jesus had died SO EARLY. The centurion went to check and looked at him – he didn’t know for sure obviously, but he said that he died.
(I am an Ex-Christian Convert to Islam, I have tried my best to minimize bias towards my particular belief – Jesus swooned). But it makes sense naturalistically right?
Dr. Richard Carrier believes that the resurrection appearances was based on an assumption from looking at Isaiah 53.
Even if Jesus was to remain alive, because they saw him, they would assume he resurrected from the dead anyway lol
Isaiah 53 Suffering servant = ISRAEL! NOT JESUS!
http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=108849&start=20
Adco wrote:
Man has created god in his own image that is why you see pictures in kids bibles showing god to be this old bearded man sitting on a cloud. It is a myth. I said that man created the concept of god and from that God came into “existance”, not as a physical entity, but in the minds of people so that he could be used to manipulate and control. To want to control, manipulate and win and be right is part of being human.
Paarsurrey says:
Hi friends
In the case of Christians, I agree that Paul and the Church created Trinity; Paul and the Church carved Jesus god out of the thin air, it is only a myth. Similarly Holy Spirit is a god created by Paul and the Church. So, it is entirely a human endeavor; I agree.
One of my Jewish friend in another forum informed that most of the Atheists Agnostics Anti-Theists; when they say there is no god; they mean Jesus is not god.
I don’t know how much of this is corrects; unless my friends here would confirm it.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
